Shapiro and Armani...not looking for a fight

[BballTC]

Hello everyone!

 

Just want to start by saying how valuable this board has been to me over the past year...and how much I appreciate all the posts.

 

To get to the point, I was scheduled for a transplant with Doc Shapiro last year, but had to cancel due to work issues. Now, I find myself with the time to undergo the procedure, and am ready to reschedule. Here is my question...I live close to Shapiro, so the convenience of going there would be nice. Also, I have heard repeatedly how great his results are.

 

My only concern is this. I would like (don't "need," but would like) a lower hairline that resembles what I used to have. I guess I want to make sure the hairline is dense, and doesn't make me look too old. I have heard that doc Shapiro usually takes a conservative approach to hairlines, and I recall at our meeting last year he was reluctant to go as low as I had initially wanted.

 

On the other hand, I have heard that Armani tends to do quite a bit of work on younger men, and has demonstrated the ability to dense pack (whatever this means) effectively.

 

I defer to the wisdom of this board. I could use some guidance. I have heard that opinions about Armani vary widely, so I don't want to start a war here. Honestly just looking for some feedback. Maybe the perspectives of old patients? I just want to get this done, because I am tired of losing hair. Thanks, guys!

[BballTC]

Hello everyone!

 

Just want to start by saying how valuable this board has been to me over the past year...and how much I appreciate all the posts.

 

To get to the point, I was scheduled for a transplant with Doc Shapiro last year, but had to cancel due to work issues. Now, I find myself with the time to undergo the procedure, and am ready to reschedule. Here is my question...I live close to Shapiro, so the convenience of going there would be nice. Also, I have heard repeatedly how great his results are.

 

My only concern is this. I would like (don't "need," but would like) a lower hairline that resembles what I used to have. I guess I want to make sure the hairline is dense, and doesn't make me look too old. I have heard that doc Shapiro usually takes a conservative approach to hairlines, and I recall at our meeting last year he was reluctant to go as low as I had initially wanted.

 

On the other hand, I have heard that Armani tends to do quite a bit of work on younger men, and has demonstrated the ability to dense pack (whatever this means) effectively.

 

I defer to the wisdom of this board. I could use some guidance. I have heard that opinions about Armani vary widely, so I don't want to start a war here. Honestly just looking for some feedback. Maybe the perspectives of old patients? I just want to get this done, because I am tired of losing hair. Thanks, guys!

[the B spot]

Bball, thanks for joining the forum, and being open about your hairloss. I think your question requires a two-fold response.

First, at 26, I highly doubt you are a candidate for a considerably lowered hairline. You have to understand that hairloss is impossible to forecast, and for every hair you place in the lowered hairline, you risk running out of donor for a later date. Imagine using 4500 grafts in the front 1/3rd of your head (lowered hairline, closed temples, and aggressive temple work) only to discover 10 years later that you have a 150 cm/2 bald spot with only 2 or 3000 grafts left. If we do the math that would leave a rough density of 20 follicular units per square centimeter. That is NOT coverage, my friend!!! Ideally, you would want to push the hairline back a bit and have a density of 40 to 50 cm/2 from hairline to perhaps right into the top of the crown, and then coverage of about 30 to 35 in the crown area. If you get more great, but planning ahead is paramount at your age, simply because NO ONE can tell you how severe your balding will be.

Second, when deciding on a physician, it is important that you remember how you want to look now, and in the future. The obvious technical skills and artistry (going into native hair, graft angulation and orientation) should be the FIRST priority, then cost, geography,etc... You question of Shapiro or Armani is mostly a question of philosophy and ethics. Philosophically, you need to plan for the future. Ethically, it would be a gross irresponsibility for a surgeon to deplete your donor supply at 26, without considering long-term ramifications. I personally believe Shapiro Medical can help you reach your goals, without compromising either of the two points I spoke about earlier. That is the reason I chose them, and I will continue to treat my hairloss there. I hope this helps you out, but you have a lot of information to digest, and at your age, sit back and really think things through and then proceed confidently.

[troy]

I represt people in realestate for a living and one frusterating thing i deal with is when people want my help, but not my advise. I have found when they dont listen to my advise they will most likley regret it and wish they would have taken my counsel. I believ this is true as well in HT, I think you should stongly listen to the advise you are recieving IF the doc has a impecable reputation, and believe it is better to error on the safe side. I also agree with Bspot and feel you would better off with the advise of being conservative. If you read this forum enough you will hear the cry of people who have not been happy with there ht and live with there choice with great regret. It is easy to get caught up in the emotion of resoring your hair and could be easy to make a bad choice. I think you should go the shapiro route.

[BballTC]

Bspot and troy--

 

Thanks for the responses and the thoughtful perspective. I totally appreciate what you are saying about planning for the future. Oh, how hard it can be, though! My girlfriend and family really haven't noticed how bad it's gotten yet (or at least they haven't told me if they have!), partly because I wear a hat a lot, and also because I am still pretty slick at styling it to conceal the recession. But I just want to have that hair back so I won't worry people viewing me differently (especially my girl). Irrational, I know, but I still worry. And of course, I want it all my hair back now.

 

That said, i understand that this is a long-term, 12 round battle with hair loss, and I need to plan accordingly. And from what I am hearing, Armani may deplete the donor supply too early. Maybe I can talk to Doc Shapiro about going a little denser in the areas we do decide to fill in. Not Armani dense, but a little denser than usual. I called Matt Zupan at SMG after reading your responses. He wasn't in, so I left a message. I will discuss some of my concerns with him when I hopefully hear back next week. In the meantime, Bspot, do you know if Shapiro is opposed to doing ANY temple work (aggressive or closed)?

 

troy--I won't ingnore your advice! i will likely need more of it in the future...

[BballTC]

Michaellovesnyc,

 

35 seems old to me. Does a hard-and-fast rule like that ever work? Doesn't it depend on degree of hair loss more than age? I honestly don't know, so feel free to correct me.

 

I don't want to feel bummed out for 9 years while I wait to see what happens. I can barely stand checking the sink/drain for hairs as it is each day.

[buddyebsen]

Go conservative. You can always go lower later. I went a little higher than I wanted but had a small amount added to the temple points to define my face better. This used fewer grafts and I am happy that I did not go lower on the hairline. I have a nice "hair bank" for added density and crown work when needed.

[BballTC]

thanks for the thoughts, buddyebsen. By conservative, do you mean Shapiro? Not trying to suggest Shapiro=conservative and Armani=aggressive, but I think i have been hearing that.

 

Also, does anyone have an opinion as to whether Hasson & Wong have shown a willingness to go more aggressive than Shapiro, while not compromising on the ethical component of the procedure?

[Pat - Community Publisher]

BballTC,

 

While I can understand your desire to re-establish the hairline you had years ago, I really think that you would be wise to go no lower than Dr. Shapiro recommends. He really has your best LONG term interests in mind.

 

I think that while Dr. Armani may have good technical skills he seems far too willing to do agressive hairlines on young men. That makes him popular with them but not with me and others who take a longer term view.

 

I agree with much of what has been stated above (thanks to all for their thoughtful input).

 

I did read in one of your other posts that you had tried dutasteride but stopped using it when you experienced increased hairloss. I know that Robert, who use to moderate this forum had this same experience with dutasteride. But he stayed with dutasteride and in time it worked well for him.

 

I have also heard reports and read that in some patients they will sometimes experience shedding in the early stages of taking dutasteride or propecia.

 

This seems to be due to the idea that these drugs may cause the hair follicles to intially syncronize their growth/shedding cycles. Thus rather than the normal situation in which 20% of the hair follicles are at rest and the other 80% are growing the hair may all be in one stage or the other. But in time, if you stay with the drug, the hair should grow back even fuller.

 

I think you should consider trying Propecia to keep your hair loss to a minimum.

 

Best wishes, Pat

[buddyebsen]

"My only concern is this. I would like (don't "need," but would like) a lower hairline that resembles what I used to have."

 

So many times in my life there was something that I thought I wanted but when I got it, it was not what I really wanted after all. If you think you want a low hairline and then get it, you can't easily undo it. It's like when women get breast implants and they think they want to go really big when a smaller size would suit them beter and look more natural.

 

When you get a HT, you will look different, no matter how conservative the hairline is and you may be surprised at how good you look. If you have the grafts and want to go lower later you can but I would never try to go back to a teenage hairline.

[M&M]

This sounds a lot like me when I was younger. I wanted a hairline that was equal to mine at 20, but let's face it - that only looks natural as you age on a handful of people (ie. Elvis). While Bosley wasn't the best choice for my first hair transplant by any measure, they did at least start behind my existing mid-20's hairline to ensure that it was going to look natural when in my 30's, my 40's, my 50's, etc. Remember that this is a life-long decision you are making with respect to your hairline.

 

I might also suggest taking a look at the photos on this site under repair work and about 1/3 of the repair work (rough estimate) is for repairing hairlines that are too low. If - in your 30's - thanks to Propecia and other medical advances, you have halted your hair loss, it may then be the right time to lower your hairline a touch.

 

While I have no experience at all with Dr. Armani, I do with Dr. Ron Shapiro. I just finished my procedure yesterday and he was very open about what would be natural for me while meeting and exceeding all expectations that I had. I'll do a full write-up when I'm 'off the meds', but let me just say that the attention to detail - pre, during and post op is extremely impressive and I couldn't more highly recommend him and his staff.

[BballTC]

Thanks for the responses, guys. buddyebsen, I can definately relate to the "be careful what you wish for" warning. Too true! A good example happened to me a few years ago. I was getting tired of what I considered to be too much hair on my chest, so I went to one of the spas where they do laser removal. Only went a couple times, and saw some improvement. From past experience, I thought that most younger women today liked the clean look.

 

Of course, around this same time I met this awesome girl...very pretty and completely my time. One day when we were out on the lake with some people, she noticed the slighly different color of some of my chest hair. Because I was busted, I decided to own up to it and told her what I had been doing. She was VERY unhappy to hear that I was removing hair, and said she loved the look of "manly men with lots of chest hair." Whoops. She and I didn't last that long and I figure it was because she pegged me for "less than a manly man" after that. Ha! Good I can laugh about it now.

 

(sorry for the tangential post, guys!)

[BballTC]

M&M,

 

Had no idea that much of repair work was done to fix poorly constructed hairlines! That's eye opening. I'll check the pics.

 

One thing I will say about Doc Shapiro is the wealth of literature and info he provides you with pre-op. He gave me some great industry reading pieces about how to construct a realistic hairline, many of which he had written. Always nice to know the doc you are thinking about seeing also writes some of the textbooks.

 

As for Armani, it seems like he may be a more viable alternate once something like hair cloning comes along.

[the B spot]

Bball, from what I know, Dr. Shapiro is not opposed to doing temple closure or re-establishing some of the temple points, and obviously exhibits great skill in doing so. What he will not do is perform these procedures at the wrong time, (in his estimation)on younger patients. At age 26, you likely fall into the conservative category, but doing consultatations will clear that up for you as well. You should be excited that you live close to SMG, as you can potentially do your surgery right in your backyard. Right now that best advice I can offer is "keep asking questions!"

[troy]

BballTC, I also live about 15 min from shapiro medical, if you want to get togather for lunch we can talk ht and you can see my results from dr rose. send me a private pm if you want.