BballTC

As I understand it, today is the day the patent on Propecia expires (June 19th, 2006). Found that date listed on a couple websites after doing a quick search.

Hey guys, Thought I'd weigh in here, even though my real experience was with dut. I skipped Propecia and went right to dut (not a wise move, generally speaking, but I was looking to dut because of the propecia ingredient list). I had an extrememly negative reaction in the short time I took it (I recall it being 1 to 2 months). Just as some of you have described, I was thinning somewhat at the temples, but nothing too outrageous. Now I don't want to sound like the guy who yells "fire" in a crowded theater, so I will be measured with what I say here. However, it is my personal experience that dut had a severely negative effect on my frontal hairline. My scalp became oily, my hair felt dried out, and I lost hair at a much faster rate than ever before. In the few months that followed dut (once I was off it), I continued to lose hair at an accelerated rate. It is now almost 7 months since stopping dut, and I haven't seen any regrowth in these areas. Believe me, for everyone's sake, I sincerely hope these medications do work (or something better comes along). But please, don't hesitate to trust your intuition if you feel that something is doing you more harm than good. Listen to your body, and let it guide you. Dut just felt wrong to me, and I don't regret my decision. For those of you who find it works to some degree (Robert, for example), by all means continue. Just my two cents.

youngguy24...it is posts like yours that make me nervous to start Propecia. As Robert may remember, I was on Avodart a fairly short time and got spooked by sheds and quit. I had never taken Propecia (due to stomach upset I had the one week I tried it). I have been considering going back on it, but I just get nervous when considering how it might affect young guys who are beginning to lose their hair. It really seems in SOME instances (not all) to lead to heavy sheds that might leave you with less hair even after any regrowth- net, net. Which concerns me a little. I have a hair transplant coming up in July, and I want to make sure I get the most mileage possible out of it. But I remain nervous that my hairline will deteriorate once I get on Propecia, even if I do it at the time of surgery. All I know is that those meds are STRONG, and as Robert and others have warned, you need to be ready to experience heavy shedding and be strong enough mentally to get throught it.

Great question...I would also like to know what cream concealer works best

I was hoping to get some thoughts on this question...hope it isn't too trivial. Has anyone experience a marked increase in acne on both the forehead and hairline in the past year. It has been quite substantial. Being that I am 26 years old, it was many years ago I stopped having regular breakouts, and my skin was quite clear for a long time. However (and maybe this is my perception), now it seems that along with my increased rate of hair loss has come a strange recurrence of acne...and at times my forehead can be full of it. Only non-hair loss related explanation I could think of is that as hair loss gets worse, many of us wear hats more, and that may be catching dirt, etc? Just a thought. Am I the only one who has experienced this? Does acne often accompany hair loss?

I was hoping to get some thoughts on this question...hope it isn't too trivial. Has anyone experience a marked increase in acne on both the forehead and hairline in the past year. It has been quite substantial. Being that I am 26 years old, it was many years ago I stopped having regular breakouts, and my skin was quite clear for a long time. However (and maybe this is my perception), now it seems that along with my increased rate of hair loss has come a strange recurrence of acne...and at times my forehead can be full of it. Only non-hair loss related explanation I could think of is that as hair loss gets worse, many of us wear hats more, and that may be catching dirt, etc? Just a thought. Am I the only one who has experienced this? Does acne often accompany hair loss?

jonn and Scooping, You guys sound like you are very much in my position. And I know how stressful it can be. As a matter of fact, jonn, I just got into a serious relationship a month and a half ago. And this girl is awesome and I really don't want to mess it up. I can tell you what my thought process was, and see if this makes sense to you (which it does to me). Starting propecia now WILL NOT grow back hair anytime soon. That is just a fact. I had to realize that if I started propecia today, I won't be seeing new growth for many months (likely a year). Generally speaking, people go through a period of shedding, which although it varies by person, can last for a few months. Therefore, if you are comfortable enough with your appearance and don't want the added stress of a shed while beginning the relationship with your girl, I would consider waiting. The downside of waiting is that eventually you will have to go through the shedding period at some point, so maybe earlier is better. But in my case, I don't want the added stress of losing hair at the temples while trying to get this girl on the hook, you know? Avodart really thinned out my hair when I went on it, and caused a lot of shedding at the hairline. I couldn't deal with that during the summer when I will be outside with my girlfriend. So what I decided to do was this. I am wrapping up my current job at the end of June, and I am taking July off. I will be getting my tranplant in July. I am putting most/all of my grafts in the hairline at this time, and I imagine that I could experience a little shock loss (lose some surrounding hair). I plan on starting Propecia at the same time. That way, if I experience some shedding of my non-transplanted hair, I won't sweat it as much because for all I know it was part of the transplant working (the transplanted hairs shed after surgery, which is normal). That way, I can keep optimistic that after one year, I should be seeing results from both the transplant and the propecia. As for the propecia, if I have adverse reaction to it, I will just discontinue use (it stays in your system only a short period). Finally (sorry for how long this is!), I plan on keeping my hair in front a little longer, so hopefully my girl won't notice anything to dramatic. I will be "traveling" about two weeks after surgery, and then wear a hat when I can.

Doc Shapiro is probably a great choice, jonn. I also did a good deal of research, and came to the conclusion that he is the way to go. My ultimate conclusion was based on a number of factors. For one thing, the praise for Shapiro on this board is resounding. Also, I had a consultation with him and found him to be warm and seemingly honest. Although I wanted a very low hairline, he insisted that we go higher and fill down over time if my hair loss remained at bay. As others here have mentioned, beware of those who promise to do whatever the patient wants. it is a doctor's responsibility to do what's right, not what's popular. Another factor I weighed was Shapiro's stature in the transplant community, and his lecturing and publishing record. As for the meds, I can tell you that during the very beginning of taking Avodart (dut), I did notice a very slight decline in libido. Actually, it was less a decline in libido than in the quality of my erections. However, this disappeared after going off the drug. Interesting point---dut is supposed to remain in one's system for quite some time (more than 4 months in some cases), but my symptoms went away almost immediately. Personally, I am much less concerned with sides and very concerned with accelerated loss at hairline due to shedding. That can be very hard to deal with, especially in your mid-20's.

Jonn, Your situation sounds a lot like mine. I am also 26, receeding at the temples, thinning a little generally, and very concerned about it. I have really resisted beginning a Propecia regimen, due in part to a bad experience I had with Avodart (it caused a lot of shedding). However, I feel helpless sitting here and doing nothing to block DHT. Shampoo, vitamins, lotions, etc. are all nice in that they give you the sense you are fighting back, but the DHT issue will always need to be addressed ultimately. I am sure one of your primary concerns is losing more hair at the hairline in the hopes you *might* regrow hair in the crown/vertex. That has been my primary issue in waiting to start meds. What I have decided to do is go for a hair transplant with Doc Shapiro in Minneapolis, and at that time begin Propecia. As everything on my hairline will be in a state of flux anyway, I don't think any shedding will bother me. Then, at the end of the next year, I will hopefully have a nice head of hair from the combined effects of the HT and the Propecia. We'll see.

Thanks, everyone! Hairbank, I will make sure to keep detailed records, and get some good before and after pics, from consistent angles, and with good lighting. M&M, congrats on the procedure. I'll be looking forward to hearing more about it.

Thanks, guys! I have to admit, I am pretty pumped right now. I will definately post the before and afters so we can all evaluate the final product. On the phone today I mentioned to Matt how helpful this forum was in helping me build up the courage to schedule the procedure. It's a great service, and a community I look forward to continuing to be a part of. You guys have a good thing going here. Bspot, rest assured that I will have plenty of questions as the big day gets closer. Thanks for the offer!

Well, I am pretty excited. Just got off the phone with Matt Zupan at SMG and scheduled my procedure with Shapiro for early July (they are booking really far out right now, and I was lucky to get this spot!). I feel very confident in this choice. Despite my desire for a low, dense hairline, I know Dr. Shapiro will develop an appropriate strategy for helping me to combat the loss. Special thanks to Bspot, Pat, M&M, troy, and buddyebsen for the advice on selecting a surgeon. I appreciated the feedback, gentlemen. troy--would still like to see your work with Dr. Rose. Work got busy this week, but will contact you soon. Hope you are well.

Well, I am pretty excited. Just got off the phone with Matt Zupan at SMG and scheduled my procedure with Shapiro for early July (they are booking really far out right now, and I was lucky to get this spot!). I feel very confident in this choice. Despite my desire for a low, dense hairline, I know Dr. Shapiro will develop an appropriate strategy for helping me to combat the loss. Special thanks to Bspot, Pat, M&M, troy, and buddyebsen for the advice on selecting a surgeon. I appreciated the feedback, gentlemen. troy--would still like to see your work with Dr. Rose. Work got busy this week, but will contact you soon. Hope you are well.

M&M, Had no idea that much of repair work was done to fix poorly constructed hairlines! That's eye opening. I'll check the pics. One thing I will say about Doc Shapiro is the wealth of literature and info he provides you with pre-op. He gave me some great industry reading pieces about how to construct a realistic hairline, many of which he had written. Always nice to know the doc you are thinking about seeing also writes some of the textbooks. As for Armani, it seems like he may be a more viable alternate once something like hair cloning comes along.

Thanks for the responses, guys. buddyebsen, I can definately relate to the "be careful what you wish for" warning. Too true! A good example happened to me a few years ago. I was getting tired of what I considered to be too much hair on my chest, so I went to one of the spas where they do laser removal. Only went a couple times, and saw some improvement. From past experience, I thought that most younger women today liked the clean look. Of course, around this same time I met this awesome girl...very pretty and completely my time. One day when we were out on the lake with some people, she noticed the slighly different color of some of my chest hair. Because I was busted, I decided to own up to it and told her what I had been doing. She was VERY unhappy to hear that I was removing hair, and said she loved the look of "manly men with lots of chest hair." Whoops. She and I didn't last that long and I figure it was because she pegged me for "less than a manly man" after that. Ha! Good I can laugh about it now. (sorry for the tangential post, guys!)

thanks for the thoughts, buddyebsen. By conservative, do you mean Shapiro? Not trying to suggest Shapiro=conservative and Armani=aggressive, but I think i have been hearing that. Also, does anyone have an opinion as to whether Hasson & Wong have shown a willingness to go more aggressive than Shapiro, while not compromising on the ethical component of the procedure?

Michaellovesnyc, 35 seems old to me. Does a hard-and-fast rule like that ever work? Doesn't it depend on degree of hair loss more than age? I honestly don't know, so feel free to correct me. I don't want to feel bummed out for 9 years while I wait to see what happens. I can barely stand checking the sink/drain for hairs as it is each day.

Bspot and troy-- Thanks for the responses and the thoughtful perspective. I totally appreciate what you are saying about planning for the future. Oh, how hard it can be, though! My girlfriend and family really haven't noticed how bad it's gotten yet (or at least they haven't told me if they have!), partly because I wear a hat a lot, and also because I am still pretty slick at styling it to conceal the recession. But I just want to have that hair back so I won't worry people viewing me differently (especially my girl). Irrational, I know, but I still worry. And of course, I want it all my hair back now. That said, i understand that this is a long-term, 12 round battle with hair loss, and I need to plan accordingly. And from what I am hearing, Armani may deplete the donor supply too early. Maybe I can talk to Doc Shapiro about going a little denser in the areas we do decide to fill in. Not Armani dense, but a little denser than usual. I called Matt Zupan at SMG after reading your responses. He wasn't in, so I left a message. I will discuss some of my concerns with him when I hopefully hear back next week. In the meantime, Bspot, do you know if Shapiro is opposed to doing ANY temple work (aggressive or closed)? troy--I won't ingnore your advice! i will likely need more of it in the future...

Not being a doctor, I hesitate to delve too deeply into sexual functioning. I can tell you this...DHT can affect sex drive, but anecdotal evidence suggests the use of Propecia does not always do this. Some patients it does, some it doesn't. One thing that is interesting is that a few people on this board have reported huge muscle gains when taking dutasteride (Avodart). Propecia also raises T levels, albeit to a lesser degree, and therefore your weight training will not suffer (in fact, could benefit). Do a search for post by Justin Sievers (I believe that is how he spells it). He described gaining a lot of muscle after going on dut due to the increase in T.

I think I need someone to kick me and tell me to get on a DHT inhibitor. I have to be honest, I am very nervous to try it again. I tried going on dut this past year, and freaked out when I experienced a period of very heavy shedding (particularly along the hairline). Rather than sticking with it, I decided to get off of it. For me, dut just seemed like too strong a medicine. While on dut, I noticed I was sweating more, my skin felt oily, and my hair was brittle. Perhaps I gave to quickly, but I can say I don't regret the decision. Anyway, I am in the process of choosing a doc for a transplant. I am 26 with a receeding hairline. I do have a routine I follow each day to combat future loss, but the glaring omission is a DHT blocker. But I feel very nervous that if I get on Propecia, I will see further deterioration of the hairline. So far, my family and my girlfriend haven't really noticed how the loss has picked up. But if Propecia accelerates the dropping out of terminal hairs (or other hair), I am worried they will notice...especially during the summer when I am outside and around the water. Can someone tell me what to do? And sorry if I sound helpless, but as we all know, this process is STRESSFUL. As always, thanks!

I think I need someone to kick me and tell me to get on a DHT inhibitor. I have to be honest, I am very nervous to try it again. I tried going on dut this past year, and freaked out when I experienced a period of very heavy shedding (particularly along the hairline). Rather than sticking with it, I decided to get off of it. For me, dut just seemed like too strong a medicine. While on dut, I noticed I was sweating more, my skin felt oily, and my hair was brittle. Perhaps I gave to quickly, but I can say I don't regret the decision. Anyway, I am in the process of choosing a doc for a transplant. I am 26 with a receeding hairline. I do have a routine I follow each day to combat future loss, but the glaring omission is a DHT blocker. But I feel very nervous that if I get on Propecia, I will see further deterioration of the hairline. So far, my family and my girlfriend haven't really noticed how the loss has picked up. But if Propecia accelerates the dropping out of terminal hairs (or other hair), I am worried they will notice...especially during the summer when I am outside and around the water. Can someone tell me what to do? And sorry if I sound helpless, but as we all know, this process is STRESSFUL. As always, thanks!

Hello everyone! Just want to start by saying how valuable this board has been to me over the past year...and how much I appreciate all the posts. To get to the point, I was scheduled for a transplant with Doc Shapiro last year, but had to cancel due to work issues. Now, I find myself with the time to undergo the procedure, and am ready to reschedule. Here is my question...I live close to Shapiro, so the convenience of going there would be nice. Also, I have heard repeatedly how great his results are. My only concern is this. I would like (don't "need," but would like) a lower hairline that resembles what I used to have. I guess I want to make sure the hairline is dense, and doesn't make me look too old. I have heard that doc Shapiro usually takes a conservative approach to hairlines, and I recall at our meeting last year he was reluctant to go as low as I had initially wanted. On the other hand, I have heard that Armani tends to do quite a bit of work on younger men, and has demonstrated the ability to dense pack (whatever this means) effectively. I defer to the wisdom of this board. I could use some guidance. I have heard that opinions about Armani vary widely, so I don't want to start a war here. Honestly just looking for some feedback. Maybe the perspectives of old patients? I just want to get this done, because I am tired of losing hair. Thanks, guys!

Hello everyone! Just want to start by saying how valuable this board has been to me over the past year...and how much I appreciate all the posts. To get to the point, I was scheduled for a transplant with Doc Shapiro last year, but had to cancel due to work issues. Now, I find myself with the time to undergo the procedure, and am ready to reschedule. Here is my question...I live close to Shapiro, so the convenience of going there would be nice. Also, I have heard repeatedly how great his results are. My only concern is this. I would like (don't "need," but would like) a lower hairline that resembles what I used to have. I guess I want to make sure the hairline is dense, and doesn't make me look too old. I have heard that doc Shapiro usually takes a conservative approach to hairlines, and I recall at our meeting last year he was reluctant to go as low as I had initially wanted. On the other hand, I have heard that Armani tends to do quite a bit of work on younger men, and has demonstrated the ability to dense pack (whatever this means) effectively. I defer to the wisdom of this board. I could use some guidance. I have heard that opinions about Armani vary widely, so I don't want to start a war here. Honestly just looking for some feedback. Maybe the perspectives of old patients? I just want to get this done, because I am tired of losing hair. Thanks, guys!

I totally understand the confusion. The reason, as I understand it, is that DHT actually plays the crucial role in the functioning of our prostate and testes. That's why it was a prostate treatment before a hair loss one. Having tried dutasteride in the last year, I can tell you that DHT inhibitors are strong medications. Actually, let me rephrase that...dutasteride is strong medicine. I cannot yet speak for Propecia. But I certainly felt a marked increase in testosterone when on dutasteride. I also noticed the oily skin commonly associated with "testosterone elevators." I didn't have terrible sexual sides, really, although a slightly softer erection than normal was noticed (nothing that bothered me too much). My real beef with dut turned out to be the heavy shed I went through. It was just too much to take, so I wimped out and quit. Robert, a regular poster here, has had a positive experience with dut overall, I believe. It just wasn't for me, though. Thinking about starting Propecia soon, myself.

Lon, On the contrary, as I understand the results released by Merck, Propecia (and dutasteride, for that matter) results in an increase in testosterone levels in both the blood (a systemic effect) as well as the scalp. This is a result of the fact that testosterone that would normally have been converted to DHT remains testosterone as a result of the medication. Although I don't have the numbers in front of me (they have been published in links found on this site), the % increase in testosterone in the body resulting from the use of Propecia or Avodart can be substantial (more so with Avodart).