FUE - Large Sessions - DRs speak up

[P.J]

I am looking for Dr.s that do 1200 or higher Fue in a 1 day session 10-12hrs:

 

I know Armani and Reys are said to acheive this amount - I would like an in depth explaination on how they can achieve this amount in that short of time with a high survival rate.

 

When cutting folicles at different angles and pulling them out with extreme care I am having a problem with their survival rate at this speed.

 

I am calling out any Dr or patient that has been through this to come forward and let us know - if it really works why are there secrets?

 

Or any Drs(Feller,Hasson,Rahal,Cole) that have the same issues with this also please speak up.

 

 

PJ

[P.J]

I am looking for Dr.s that do 1200 or higher Fue in a 1 day session 10-12hrs:

 

I know Armani and Reys are said to acheive this amount - I would like an in depth explaination on how they can achieve this amount in that short of time with a high survival rate.

 

When cutting folicles at different angles and pulling them out with extreme care I am having a problem with their survival rate at this speed.

 

I am calling out any Dr or patient that has been through this to come forward and let us know - if it really works why are there secrets?

 

Or any Drs(Feller,Hasson,Rahal,Cole) that have the same issues with this also please speak up.

 

 

PJ

[Bill - Seemiller]

I would like an in depth explaination on how they can achieve this amount in that short of time with a high survival rate

 

PJ,

 

I would like to read the same explanation.

 

Personally I think FUE has merit but some physicians have a habit of overselling its benefits without producing results.

 

I believe I've seen numbers up to 1200 with high survival rate - but I have heard claims that some can do 3000-4000 in a day. I have yet to see the hard data and patient photos on this.

 

Good luck.

 

Bill

[Dr. Alan Feller]

I have been calling doctors out on this for years. To date, no one has shown consistently good results with FUE megasessions. This doesn't mean it can't be done. If small sessions can work, then larger ones should too. The probelm, as I see it, is that most doctors doing the FUE megasessions utlize the "brute-force" method. This means they have a gang of techs (or even docs) crowd around a head to remove as many grafts as possible at the same time. The problem is that FUE is VERY VERY angle sensitive and I have found that I simply can't get the best angle unless I'm working alone on the head. The chance for needle sticks among staff is also much greater which is enough to nix the practice alone in my book.

 

Of course I've done FUE megasessions that have worked wonderfully, but it has not proven to be consistent.

 

I have recently designed some new tools for the FUE field that may actually allow for fast and safe extractions. It is radically different than any other FUE tool I know of to date but stands on a sound hypothetical footing. I am trying to have it made by the same company that makes my patented punches, but there are problems that need to be overcome. We should be able to do it so it will be interesting to see if it works.

[TheHairLossCure]

Bill,

 

Who is claiming to do 3,000-4,000 fue in a single day? That is off the wall...

[P.J]

Dr Armani 3000+

Dr De Reys and Dr. Ilter 2000

Dr Koray 2000

Dr Jones 2000

 

These are all claiming mega Fue in a single session.

 

I would like to hear how they do it and their survival rate!

 

PJ

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dr. Feller,

 

I'm glad you chimed in because I have used you as a prime example of a doctor who has produced excellent FUE results without overselling it's benefit.

 

TheHairLossCure,

 

PJ just listed a few - though Bart (Bverotti) has claimed that Dr. De Reyes and Dr. Ilter have done 3000 rather than 2000 in a single session.

 

P.J.

 

I too would like to hear from these doctors - not just in words, but with pictoral proof.

 

As Dr. Feller stated, it could be possible - but the results appear to be inconsistent. This is probably why there is no public evidence available that shows this.

 

Bill

[NervousNelly]

I think that Armani is currently the doc that is claiming to do the largest sessions. Wasn't there a recent poster on here that had a large session with him?? The post op work looked great but again who knows about the survival rate.

 

NN

[Bill - Seemiller]

NN,

 

Got link?

 

But don't you know? Dr. Armani performs NONSURGICAL FUE

 

Bill

[NervousNelly]

Bill,

 

Here's the link http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/256...861/m/5711098623/p/1

 

 

 

Bummer that his photos are no longer visible at his attached site, but should read thread as one of the more memorable Bspot posts is there--a true classic.

 

 

NN

[Bill - Seemiller]

NN,

 

Ah yes...I remember this thread. I even posted on it. I wonder why he removed his pictures? He can't be more than a few months post op right now.

 

Bill

[P.J]

Well I guess it will remain secrete -

 

I will call it a scam (as Dr Feller explained as a brute force tug fest) with poor results till one of these DRs has the balls to come forward and explain this special technique.

 

PJ

[Bill - Seemiller]

P.J.

 

I guess time will tell. I don't doubt that achieving this is impossible. But be sure to filter through the CLAIMS and look for EVIDENCE.

 

Does it exist? Possibly! But it is not commonplace yet like larger Strip sessions.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[calvinmd]

Is there a good set of fully-grown-out before & after pics of ANYONE, ANYWHERE that visually looks like they've gotten more than 2000-3000 grafts growing from FUE work?

 

I can't think of a case off the top of my head.

 

And the idea that there just aren't enough grown-out cases to photograph yet is total bull. That excuse held water about 3 years ago but not anymore.

 

 

------------------------------------------------

[P.J]

Well its been a while and none of these Drs bit!

 

After doing some research and from my own experiences - I believe the average extraction rate would be 100grafts per/hr for fue performed by one Dr.

 

With this said:

1000 fue would be around a 12-14hr day onaverage

 

If you wanted 2000 grafts - it would take two Drs extracting for 10hrs and add another 4-6hrs for cuts/placement =14-16hr day

 

Any comments or conflicts would be appreciated

 

 

 

PJ

[bverotti]

Originally posted by P.J:

Well its been a while and none of these Drs bit!

 

After doing some research and from my own experiences - I believe the average extraction rate would be 100grafts per/hr for fue performed by one Dr.

 

With this said:

1000 fue would be around a 12-14hr day onaverage

 

If you wanted 2000 grafts - it would take two Drs extracting for 10hrs and add another 4-6hrs for cuts/placement =14-16hr day

 

Any comments or conflicts would be appreciated

 

 

 

PJ

 

PJ, can run a marathon ? I can not, nor can a whole bunch of people. However if people would practice and train hard enough for extensive time than most people would be able to run a marathon.

 

Same goes for FUE. No doc has started by doing 1000 FUE per day, not a single one.

Heck, I remember that during the first 6 months we where proud to have pulled of 500-700 graft cases.

Today anything under 1500 grafts is a small to regular session. Mind that we have docs who perform it almost EVERY day for the last 2 to 4 years.

(Patients are asked if they want to count grafts during the lunch break so that there is no doubt about about the numbers, these are facts.)

 

We believe that in the comming months and years many more docs will come forward, not necesarely the 'known' ones on the board, and achieve mega sessions FUE.

 

Strip and FUE will coexist for sure, but IMHO the balance will tip.

 

Greetz

[bverotti]

Ps PJ,

I have no idea how 2 docs could be extracting simultaniously, at least using our routines.

 

You can find good FUE video coverage on youtube. Interesting to see how FUE routines vary from doc to doc!

[P.J]

bverotti,

 

Thanks for chiming in - I understand what you are saying about perfecting with experience.

 

Could you elaborate on your process?

 

This is the process as I know it:

 

1. Scoring the skin and checking the angle the hair is actually growing under the skin - to make sure to cut the graft at the right angle

 

2. Punching the skin at the right angle and removing the graft with care

 

You have stated that your clinic has done 1500 in 6hrs.

 

You are saying scoring + punching + removing 6 grafts per minute without damage?

 

Please inform us of your process so I/we can understand how this is humanly possible?

[TheHairLossCure]

It is reasonable to do 200 FUE grafts per hour in terms of harvesting. A few things should be noted: 1) the surgeon is the not harvesting for the entire surgery 2) the doctor, staff, and patient will need to take breaks. My point is that an 8 hours surgery (for example) is NOT likely to yield 1,600 FUE grafts, even if the surgeon is getting 200 grafts per hour.

[bverotti]

Originally posted by P.J:

bverotti,

 

Thanks for chiming in - I understand what you are saying about perfecting with experience.

 

Could you elaborate on your process?

 

This is the process as I know it:

 

1. Scoring the skin and checking the angle the hair is actually growing under the skin - to make sure to cut the graft at the right angle

 

2. Punching the skin at the right angle and removing the graft with care

 

You have stated that your clinic has done 1500 in 6hrs.

 

You are saying scoring + punching + removing 6 grafts per minute without damage?

 

Please inform us of your process so I/we can understand how this is humanly possible?

 

Well, I can only talk about our experience.

To answer your question :

During the first 10 minutes or so the procedure is as you decribe in your point 1.

The surgeon then has figured out the angle and depth. From then on he only uses your point 2

Average extraction speed is about 350 grafts an hour. Extremes are 250 and about 500 an hour.

Yes, taking 1500 grafts is usually finished around lunch time.

Hard to believe ? Sure it is, I would like to make an analogy with giga strip sessions ... they where kinda hard to believe too.

 

THC, I do not want to start an issue over speed. Fact is that we are doing FUE, every day (or almost) for several years now. Some may see this as a marketing statement, however I must stress that doing FUE once in a while is not the same as doing it every day.

In our office the surgeon is doing all the extractions by himselve with the help of assistants. Obviously breaks are needed, no question. When the patient pays for XXX grafts he will receive that amount of intact grafts.

We hope to present more cases soon, showing more evidence that mega FUE sessions in the hands of an experienced team works on a consistant base.

[TheHairLossCure]

Bverotti,

 

I am not starting an issue about speed. I couldn't care less, and I am not particularly concerned how you market your FUE. PJ made a point about the average extractions per hour and I was merely adding that doctors do not extract for the entire procedure.

[Bill - Seemiller]

This thread has been moved to the "Hair Restoration Questions and Answers" forum because it's more appropriate here.

 

Btw Bart...we are all still waiting for the proof in the pudding of your miraculous claims of FUE megasessions for all. I hope you'll spend more time posting your clinic's before/after photos and surgical details than debating the trivial details of FUE.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill