fixing-it

Originally posted by Megatron:

Bill - your hair looks great man. Mind you, I'm hoping I can get my desired result with one session.

 

When you have multiple HTs are the donor strips taken above / below the previous ones. Do you end up with multiple lines? Or is it not so bad?

Megatron,The strips are usually taken around the previous strip scar so ultimately you would have [1] small scar line.

When I went to see Hasson in feb. 2008 and started on proscar I used the drug store right down the street from them and subsequently kept ordering from them for over a year and they were just like the blue ones pictured,Then I switched to my local pharmacy [riteaid] this past summer and they were the round white pills.I do know the blues cut up better and easier....

Originally posted by FacelessMan:

notsosure,

 

I believe so...but Propecia, as far as I know, works on the crown only.

 

Bottom line, of course, is whatever your (or any) physician tells you...

 

Actually notsosure,Rogaine is more useful on the crown and propecia/finasteride/proscar same things are useful all over your head.

Good luck!

 

Benjamin

Oh and by the way,PGP and Lost My Swagger really do get it!!!

Originally posted by Bill - Associate Publisher:

Please Grow Please,

 

A couple of points since you're still posting on this thread:

 

1. The width of a strip is always measured while it's still in the scalp. Pre-tumescence, it was determined the average width of the strip of this patient (photos included) was around 2.5cm. During tumescence, it was 3cm. Once the strip was harvested and the tumescence faded, it was measured around 2.2 or 2.3 cm. Know that a strip always shrinks a little after it's been harvested due to the lack of tension that it has while it's still in the scalp. In my opinion, you are really reaching now with your new argument that the strip is less than 2cm.

 

2. Fixing-it is one patient and Pat saw one patient during his visit. We also don't know the basis of the conversation between Fixing-It and the technicians. Perhaps the technicians who told him he only has ones and twos cut only ones and twos, but other technicians working on other areas of the strip found 3s and 4s. The closest we can come to proving this ONE patient had no 3s and 4s, is by asking the clinic for a hair count breakdown. This chart then would contain the data from all the technicians working on his strip, not just a couple of them.

 

3. In a previous post you said you would provide photos showing your high resolution blow-ups showing the patients you sampled have only 1s and 2s. Your words: "I wanted to leave this alone but Lorenzo wouldnt let me and now a bomb has been dropped and if they still want me to put together a collaboration of photos showing this I will." When I asked you to provide the photos, you said you couldn't because they were too large. When I asked you to email them to me privately, you were reluctant.

 

If you're not going to admit these photos as evidence to your conclusion, then they have to be dismissed. Being as familiar with law as you are, I'm sure you understand that if proof can't be provided in court, it's meaningless and the jury has to throw it out. Thus, you can't keep referencing photos that you won't put forth as evidence.

 

I think at this point, it would be beneficial if you admitted publicly that though you have suspicions based on inconclusive evidence that Hasson and Wong cut grafts, that their explanations are plausible and that you could potentially be wrong in your assessment of their work. Let the data present itself over time as hair counts are provided by their clinic moving forward as they promised.

 

Moving forward, they are going to be providing detailed hair counts. Perhaps if they are willing, they will even post additional photos including dissected 3 and 4 haired follicular units and strip sizes that match or even exceed 2.5cm if anyone still has doubts about the one case Joe provided.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

Bill,

Being that I had a small to medium size procedure and was only there for about 6 hours I only had 2 techs that were dissecting the strip into grafts and 2 other techs implanting the grafts.When I asked about a hair count breakdown I was told 1's and 2's and when asked about 3's & 4's was then told what I have already posted.

Seriously Bill,Do you really believe they have certain Tech's only dissecting 1 hair & 2 hair groupings and different Tech's doing the 3's & 4's ?That would mean a tech would have dissect a couple then hand the piece of flesh to a different tech and back and forth.I dont think so and you know better.

Bill,with you being a very conscious/awesome/fair moderator here and giving so much valuable input over the years why have you seemingly not wanted your own hair count breakdown chart for your last 2 HT's?Or better yet demanded it knowing this has been a HOT TOPIC for a couple of years now.

The only sheet I saw, only showed the total graft count I was to pay for and no hair count chart.If anybody needs more info go back and read my last couple of posts again until you understand.

Bill please answer the Question I posed for you,Thanks.

Originally posted by TheEmperor:

Originally posted by TC17:

Emperor,

 

Regarding your above post, it is immaterial whether extra work is required of the techs and doctor when grafts are cut. That does not in any way justify increasing the total cost of a procedure. I am not saying that is done by H&W, but your contention that graft splitting requires additional work and is therefore somehow detrimental to the doctor is ridiculous. With that (unnecessary) extra work the clinic receives a significant dollar figure. As I said earlier, if the doctor chooses to split for aesthetic purposes and does not charge extra for the split grafts, that is fine. But since a great many members of this community are not wealthy enough to throw money away on split grafts, I find it incredulous that you would even attempt to justify a practice that increases the cost to a patient by invoking "additional work and overhead for the clinic".

 

That additional work is within the control of the doctor, as he chooses to split the grafts and thus increase the workload. I for one would prefer to receive less grafts, at less cost and receive the same results as one with more grafts, at a higher cost, but with the same number of hairs. While I personally feel that Dr. Wong does TERRIFIC work, I can not say that his sessions of 7,000 grafts are at all better than Cooley or Shapiro with 4,500 grafts.

 

I wish that all members would remember that this is a patient advocacy forum, and that without absolute transparency and open discussion on all issues, the forum will cease to serve its intended purpose of helping all of us. Without posts like PGP's (which admittedly is slightly combative) all members will begin following a group think mentality and blindly believing whatever the consensus is of the most vocal members and most prominent physicians. Such a result cannot be tolerated.

It is as if you did not read my post or do not understand it. I am assuming you are an intelligent adult so this must be an attempt to keep a flame war going, which I will not participate in. I'm out of here.

As you only have 21 posts, I suggest you are not a vested member in the community and know a bit more about this subject than your typical 21 post member. I think this must be a smear campaign. Bill, you should lock this thread.

Emperor,

What does post #'s have to do with knowledge,Remember Notgoingtogobald,He never even had a procedure but posted an average of 18 posts a day for 5 months[ alot of his posts were useless ]until he was kicked off here.I had previous work done before my latest with H&W and was on here learning for over a year before I finally joined in nov. 2007.

I actually learned alot by reading,not necessarily participating.

So going after TC17 because of low post counts makes you seem ------well I dont know.

Bill,

You can't lock this thread,just delete the personal attacks.I know PGP gets a little passionate at times but it is for our benefit.

I was in the chair and asked the questions to the techs and know exactly what I was told.

After seeing another DR who is recommended here and told I did not have many 4 hair groupings but alot of 3 hair groupings it did not make sense to me that I was told I only had 1&2 hair grafts when I went for my HT.This is not hearsay,It is FACT.

Kudos to H&W for finally coming to the table on this.

No problem PGP,

I am interested in seeing Bills response on this knowing full well Pats analogy of more slices doesn't make a bigger pizza.

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

I dont want to start anything but I find it funny that the measurement is the total shaved area .

They always shave wider then that.

I challenge Dr Wong to show me a strip of that length and width measured after being cut out.

If he can I will apologize

I remember when they were saying they take 2 cm strips to get these bigger numbers but after the math didnt add up its now all of a sudden 2.5

 

I also find it funny that in the huge number cases I blew up there were no 4s and very limited 3s implanted .

All 1s and 2s with maybe 5% 3s

Dont get me wrong they do a great job but imo the numbers are a huge marketing tool.

Bottomline again is they have happy patients and there are plenty other clinics that need to be criticized but the hype is a little overrated.

If they just provided hair counts like the other top clinics this would all be settled

All right,PGP and Lorenzo settle down.

PGP has a point about the lack of graft breakdowns from H&W.This has made many wonder about graft splitting/inflated #'s for years and I can see why.

Having gone there for my last HT because of their great results I did ask not one but two different techs at different times[when the other tech wasn't right there]about graft breakdowns and was told 1 and 2 hair graft follicles.When I asked about 3 or 4 hair follicles,each tech told me they never have 4 hair follicles and very very rarely have 3 hair follicles.

As you can imagine I thought this sounded funny and I made sure that they were not talking just about my head and they said no,We never have 4's and rarely 3's.

So Please Grow Please is just asking something alot of us wonder about and have not/will not get an answer for.

Even Bill doesn't have graft # breakdowns from his 2 latest HT's on his blog,which is surprising being a very conscious moderator on this forum.

I will stick by PGP and say just provide the damn hair counts!!!

I will say this about propecia,2 months is not long enough to do anything and its hard to believe your endocrinologist would not know this and have you on it for 9-12 months.

DDD03,can you name the 1st doc and also the coalition doc?Honestly only the real close up pic you can tell due to hairs per graft and the wide spacing.

Good news,this is an easy fix.

Botched,Besides your complaint of your scar and the itching,what else seems to be the problem?Do you think you got the whole 2700 you paid for or is there other issues,cause there are good docs that have done unbelievable repair work that you would swear could not be fixed.

Originally posted by Abby:

Excuse my ignorance Bill, but when you mention transection does this literally mean the death of that hair. What worries me is are their people out there who would transect and then plant those hairs into the scalp, which would ultimately lead to a significantly low yeilding rate or even nothing. Please correct me where I may have a wrong understanding.

As far as I know transection is killing the follicle.Bill is talking about trimming the grafts [disecting]down to smaller grafts for more 1 hair grafts for hairline.

Originally posted by botchedinatl:

i have researced. why dont you guys that are so smart tell me what the docs that you like on this site do different than bosley? same type of procedures. they received their training and certification from the same place as the bosley docs.

Bosley or MHR[they are one in the same]Do not have your best interest at heart,pretty much just making money.

How come on this worldwide forum we almost never see patients who report satisfactory results from bosley?

Let me ask you this Botched-When you were checking with your bosley dr,Did the doc make it seem like you were buying a new car instead of a surgery?my guess is yes.

We have a MHR office close by in grandrapids,michigan and one of our local radio station Dj's had a procedure done and he was pretty excited about it.But seeing him now it looks like he has mini-grafts and he had the HT just last year and you dont here him talking about how happy he is with his Ht at all anymore.I think he may have figured it out now that he didn't get the latest refined work that is possible today.

An ethical Doctor really does have your best interest at heart and un-ethical ones[and there are alot of them out there]only want your money.

All docs in this industry are just not the same as you say,But at least the ones recommended on this forum are held accountable.

I'm sorry that you are not happy as I wasn't after my 1st HT,But that made me research and ultimately decide to go with someone very proven.

Thank goodness that there are awesome docs out there[that I found via this forum]who do the best work and are less exspensive.I get a stupid postcard about every other month from bosley and their special pricing[which is still twice as high as the best coalition docs]and I never had anything done with bosley and would not even if they paid me.

Originally posted by FenderPlayer:

botched: why dont you post pics of your procedure then if bosley is great

He's not going too,I've been on this forum for a couple years and every now and then you have somebody like this that just likes controversy and stirring the pot.

Originally posted by botchedinatl:

it seems everyones problem with bosley is from the early yrs . noone is buying this bullshit. bosley is no different from any of these other doctors on this site. they all do the same procedures and get the same results. this site bashes bosley because bosley doesnt pay this site to promote them.

Botched,not to be rude but you don't know what the hell your talking about.As you say their early years,patients now are venting their frustrations from recent procedures from bosley and mhr.They might as well install a turn-style door at Bosley or MHR with all the turn-over of doctors.

Its not about them not wanting to pay to be promoted on this site.It is because they dont do good enough work.Its possible if you did more homework you wouldn't be botchedinatlanta!!!

Its just a small part of the scab with the hair still attached,perfectly normal.

Masz,Welcome-You dont need to worry,that white gunk is just dead skin.I have lost a graft 4 days after my first HT and it bled like i was stabbed.People always freak out when they see the hair come off with the scab but this is perfectly normal cause the follicle is still embedded into the skin and this is just part of the shedding fase.Everything is alright.

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

For guys with prior work I think the 75% applies to them more often.

Ive notice after each surgery growth has started later.

Scar tissue is the culprit

Don't you mean 25% applies to guys with previous work since that would in fact be the slower result?

Dewayne this was what I was looking for the other day when you and I posted on the other thread.

As PGP stated with scar tissue,I thaught ARRIE posted something saying the vascular system around your head has been compromised from prior work and therefore alot of people with multiple sessions have a little slower growth with each later session.

Anybody else experience this?

Dewayne,Yeah I am at 8 months and although I am seeing some growth now,It appears to be a little slow.[cant wait for more thickening]

I too saw nothing at 5 months,but this was with Dr Hasson So I will just have to trust the process.

Just getting antsy at 8 months wanting this to speed up some.

Bill,Does your growth percentage timeline take into consideration patients who have had previous work [HT's-repair work]? Cause I thought I remembered a post about people with previous procedures maybe lagging behind a little in the growth timeline like maybe a couple of months,Something to do with the vascular system being compromised and that virgin scalps generally are a little quicker on the timeline.

Any posters with more than 1 HT experience the later sessions taking longer,and if so how long?

All coalition doctors have proven to perform latest ht techniques with consistency,but that does not mean they are all equal.Some are just better even if it is just a little.

So think about that capt. clown.

Relax bobbycreek,you just lost little hairs with the scabs not the actual follicle-It happens.

If you lost a follicle you would have a small stream of blood trickling down your head.

Hello wanthairs,

I had a procedure with Dr Hasson in february of this year and am at 5 1/2 months. #1-If you are staying at the hotel they get for you,try walking to H&W,its only a 1 mile walk and it really helps you relax once you get in the chair.

#2-Eat a good breakfast so you dont get an upset stomach from the meds they are gonna give you just prior to procedure.

#3-Remeber why you are going to them in the first place.

#4-Dont flirt to much with the techs,cause you cant take them with you.

Dont worry,your'e in the best of hands.

Same old same old every month.