Ceasar08

Thanks Dr. Lindsey. I would love to hear from more experts on this topic.

I agree that the foam is wonderful to use, and that the liquid is a major pain. My concern is whether the studies show the liquid to be more effective. If so, I would sacrifice the convenience for the results.

I have no idea whether switching to the foam made me lose my gains or not. I was able to tolerate the propelyne glycol, so I would definitely use it again if it grows more hair.

Aren't there a LOT of doctors using the lasers? Why aren't all of those other people listed as advisers as well?

By the way, just so everyone knows...

The ISHRS isn't exactly an exclusive club. In my opinion, there are TONS of doctors who are members who I would never let touch my head.

The beauty of this forum and "coalition" is that it actually chooses people by merit. The entire purpose of this site is to direct people to the ethical doctors. If it weren't for places like this site, many more people would be getting butchered.

If being a member of the ISHRS carried such weight, then we wouldn't need this coalition. We would just be able to look at their member directory.

I think that's the point behind Dr. Feller's outrage... The doctors on this site are supposed to be the "good guys." If they have a way of explaining how LLT works, it would be great if they could step forward and allay people's fears that they are being betrayed and ripped off.

If Dr. Feller's science is sound (which it certainly seems to be), there is no middle ground. It's impossible for the laser to do ANYTHING more than a flashlight.

It's easy to take a middle ground and say "it works a little," but that's a complete cop out. The pseudo-science that is being used to explain it doesn't make an iota of sense.

Ummm... wait a sec... isn't this original thread dated two years ago?

I am pretty positive that SMG does NOT endorse laser therapy.

Why was this thread from two years ago magically revived?

Dr. Mohmand--- you wrote in another discussion that this was a brand new thread. I would think the only way of finding this thread would be by doing a search of the archives. Isn't it obvious that it is dated?

Thank you for answering Dr. Cooley. I was one of the lucky ones who grew a lot of hair on Propecia 1mg/day, and one of the unlucky ones to have very definite sides.

I have been on Minoxidil for years, but it doesn't seem to be doing the trick on its own. I am very tempted to try one propecia, or even two a week.

I was on minoxidil liquid for about three years with very decent results. That was without Finasteride (which I cannot take unfortunately).

After the first three years, I lost gains rapidly. I switched to the foam right when it came out, because I was under the impression that it worked better. It seemed like things had stabilized for about a year, but then I had the worst shed of my life. At this point, I'm debating if it's even worth it to try the liquid again.

I would really love to know exactly what dr. Bernstein said... I would also love to hear from another doctor on the topic of the propelyne glycol. There are a lot of threads on other forums which address the foam vs. liquid issue, and everyone seems to have a different opinion. Some people feel the foam worked better for them, while others swear that they went downhill right after they made the switch.

I agree that Minoxidil is generally not great long-term without Propecia.

Dr. Cooley--

I had a nightmare of a time with sides from the drug years ago. I've been frightened to try it again ever since. Have you had any success with reducing sides by using intermittent dosing?

Thanks.

Stimpy--

I don't know where I come down on this one. Not sure if John is right or wrong. I will tell you that there are reputable people who do believe that Propelyne Glycol is the ideal delivery system and may actually grow some hair by itself. It's not just John's opinion.

There's a doctor named Peter Proctor who is very well known for being extremely well versed on the subject of hair loss. He has long made the claim that the propylene glycol actually enhances growth quite a bit.

Again... I really would like to hear more on this topic. I'd like to know if I should switch back to the liquid.

John---

Thanks... but this is super confusing. According to the foam study, there was a 40% placebo effect. That's pretty crazy.

Also, if the liquid is that much more effective, I can't believe we haven't heard this before. I switched over about a year and a half ago, thinking the foam was more effective. Now I'm quite upset that I switched...

I'd love to hear from others about this topic...especially doctors...

Emperor--

I know what I'm about to say is ironic, in light of the fact that I'm the one stressing at three months.. but is it possible that you'll be even happier at the one year mark?

It seems like there's a big change for you between 7 1/2 and 9 months, and you are much happier than you were just six weeks ago.

It seems like people really get big changes between 8-12 months. I've even seen people with big changes after a year.

If you don't mind me asking... what was your hairloss level, graft number, hair characteristics? And what part of your scalp was worked on?

Thanks for sharing all of this...

John--

Can you post a link to the studies that show the liquid is better?

Thanks...

Emperor--- I remember reading your posts right after my transplant and feeling pretty bummed out. I know that at 7 1/2 months you were not optimistic. I'm so happy that things have gotten better... it helps to give me faith. I'd love to see pics, but I understand if you're not into putting them up... I get the feeling we may have a similar amount of loss and a similar procedure in terms of grafts.

BEN! --- I saw your blog updates... you're going to have well over seven thousand grafts...lucky bastard. I looked at your three month photos and it looks a bit like where I'm at right now. Thanks for writing.

MikeN-- You must have been freaking out after that shockloss. Scary. Looking great now.

I'm so happy I posted this thread guys.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for the encouragement.

Bill-- I'm really happy that this forum exists, it's great to have a support network a person can turn to... it's definitely not an easy time right now. The stuff you wrote hit home a LOT. More than anything right now, I wish the sides of my head weren't so frighteningly thin... a bit scary.

Please Grow--- Yup... driving myself nuts alright with the mirror. Keep looking for stubble... I look at those guys with a full head of hair at like four months...as you put it: "lucky bastards." Thanks for the kind words friend.

Thana, Rich, Manza, Badger--- All of your posts were very helpful to me. I meant to comment on the pics Thana just put up this past week... to say that Thana has a "great transplant" would be a big insult. The photos just look like a guy with great hair--- period. If I passed you in the street, I'd be thinking how lucky you are never to have gone through the whole hair loss thing...Congrats man.

And Spex.... I'll continue to reread all of your posts. I think people talk an awful lot about witch hazel, aloe... Taking nothing away from those things... I really think the most important advice you give is the psychological kind... the part about putting the transplant behind you. It's been by far the hardest part for me.

The video is very clear and well done, so much so that a Junior High School science student would understand it. What amazes me is how this whole "laser" thing has been allowed to happen. It's clear from the video that it's so ridiculously counter-intuitive to reason. Why have the FDA and so many reputable doctors even entertained (not to mention endorsed) such a ridiculous product?

If I showed up at these doctors offices, or applied for an FDA clearance on a magic hat or flashlight that grows hair, I'd be laughed at (or at least I hope so). How did we get back to the days of snake oil being promoted by reputable people in mainstream science? It's shocking to me.

Is it me, or did the FDA actually state that the thing grows a modest amount of hair? I would love for someone to investigate the "studies" that were submitted.

Thanks for such a quick response Fender.

There is no question that I could not have picked a better doctor. Could just use some words of encouragement from others.

I saw your photos, and I think you're going to look great once you grow out. I'm finding three months much tougher than the one month mark. At the one month mark, I knew not to expect anything. Now I'm looking much more than I should be...

Hi everybody---

It's Ceasar... I'm just hitting the three month mark exactly from 4400 grafts with Dr. Feller.

On a rational level, I absolutely know that I shouldn't be looking for anything yet. Unfortunately, I'm being a little bit neurotic at the moment.

I've read and reread Spex's post about the importance of patience, and it's well written and helpful... but it's still not an easy time right now. My sides have thinned out and contiunue to shed a lot... and it seems like it might be happening not only below the scar but above it as well. I don't know if it's shock loss, progression of my hair loss, or some combination.

I see maybe a few hairs here and there sprouting, but they are super fine vellous hairs that are barely visible. I look REALLY bad. When I look over the blog pics, I feel like I'm behind other people--even for this early stage.

If anyone can offer a few words of encouragement... I'd love it. Especially welcome are comments like: "at three months I looked like Yul Brenner... and now at one year, I just placed third in an Elvis lookalike contest!"

I used to read these boards and wonder why everyone got so impatient about growth..but now I'm understanding it better. For me, it's not so much the waiting as much as the fear I'll be that guy where it won't grow out. I've always been a patient person... but it's nerve racking... testing my patience quite a bit.

I'm going to go read Spex's post on patience again and try repeating the phrase "a watched kettle never boils." If anyone can give me a pep talk-- it would be so much appreciated.

All the best to everyone.

Hi everybody---

It's Ceasar... I'm just hitting the three month mark exactly from 4400 grafts with Dr. Feller.

On a rational level, I absolutely know that I shouldn't be looking for anything yet. Unfortunately, I'm being a little bit neurotic at the moment.

I've read and reread Spex's post about the importance of patience, and it's well written and helpful... but it's still not an easy time right now. My sides have thinned out and contiunue to shed a lot... and it seems like it might be happening not only below the scar but above it as well. I don't know if it's shock loss, progression of my hair loss, or some combination.

I see maybe a few hairs here and there sprouting, but they are super fine vellous hairs that are barely visible. I look REALLY bad. When I look over the blog pics, I feel like I'm behind other people--even for this early stage.

If anyone can offer a few words of encouragement... I'd love it. Especially welcome are comments like: "at three months I looked like Yul Brenner... and now at one year, I just placed third in an Elvis lookalike contest!"

I used to read these boards and wonder why everyone got so impatient about growth..but now I'm understanding it better. For me, it's not so much the waiting as much as the fear I'll be that guy where it won't grow out. I've always been a patient person... but it's nerve racking... testing my patience quite a bit.

I'm going to go read Spex's post on patience again and try repeating the phrase "a watched kettle never boils." If anyone can give me a pep talk-- it would be so much appreciated.

All the best to everyone.

Smoothy---

I'll be the first one to agree with you about many herbal treatments. A huge percentage of our FDA approved drugs were plants that were discovered in the rainforest. There is no question that there are many herbs that can benefit people, but somebody has to have incentive to pay for the double blind studies.

Having said that... lasers are not herbs. There is no rational science behind them. It's like if someone said that their flashlight made their hair grow. It just doesn't make any intuitive sense.

I just saw this thread and wanted to chime in...

One of the big reasons that there should be no "debate" or philosophizing on this issue, is because lasers are not by any means a new treatment. These lasers have been around a LONG time in different forms, and if they worked we would simply know it by now. They don't work... period. If something truly works, it's extremely easy to observe results and see its efficacy with ones own eyes. The ultimate proof that LLLT does not work, is the fact that no one seems to know anyone who has had succeeded with it. Trust me when I say that people on these boards have been searching for years...

If you take the time to research Propecia, Avodart, monoxidil, and hair transplantation you will have absolutely no problem finding countless instances of people who have documented results. You will find nothing for the laser treatment, and this has been after years and years of people getting suckered into it. I should know... I'm one of God knows how many people who was desperate enough to buy a laser comb.

Research as long as you want... you will find no proof anywhere that lasers do anything for hair growth. You might find a number of people who are using Propecia and minoxidil with it and who are attributing some of their results to the comb. I grew a lot of hair years ago on Propecia, and I also happened to have drank a lot of chocolate milk that year... somehow I don't think the chocolate milk was what grew hair for me. You obviously need to isolate the variable you are evaluating.

Again, it's not hard to determine that an aspirin helps a headache, or that an antibiotic destroys an infection. Nobody needs to "debate" it because the proof is just right there in front of us. After years and years of laser therapy, there would be NO issue by now if it actually worked. We'd have people walking around with HAIR... not one or two people, but THOUSANDS of people. Dr. Feller has evaluated multiple people EVERYDAY over an entire career, and he's yet to meet ONE. What should this tell us?

I have a laser comb lying right here on my desk... I'd love if it worked. Please do not waste the money that I wasted... I know firsthand, that when you're desperate, you want so much to believe in magic cures.

One thing that the top hair transplant doctors have in common is that they will all hook you up with a whole number of patients who can vouch for their skill, and show you their hair transplants in person. I think that it should be the responsibility of any doctor who is selling laser treatment to have some sort of living proof of its efficacy. And no... people who are simultaneously on Propecia and minoxidil do not count.

Many doctors have patients who have had excellent results. The true measure of a doctor is not just whether one person had a good experience, but whether there is a long, proven, and consistent track record.

I would never consider a doctor unless I'd seen tons of consistent results. Individual results mean nothing.

Peter-- do yourself a favor and search the forums for Dr. Feller's name. You will see so many positive reviews that you won't have the time to read them all. He's not only one of the most skilled in the world, he's also quite ethical. Unfortunately, that is quite often not the case in the hair transplant industry.

I am a recent Dr. Feller patient, always happy to answer questions. I researched like crazy, and he's one of very surgeons who I would have trusted. Hope this all helps.

Good luck Ben!

Your write up was very similar to my experience with Dr. Feller. The surgery was smooth sailing, the recipient area was left super clean, and everyone was very professional.

I'm roughly six plus weeks ahead of you. Hopefully, we will both be very happy in the coming months.

Looking forward to your updates.

This made me laugh out loud Crown. I think there was even an episode of Seinfeld with a similar premise, where George pretended he was going to naother country and the lie became more and more elaborate.

I understand exactly how you feel though. I've gone to similar lengths to hide from the world, though just short of what you've done.

In my opinion, you may have to end up telling your girlfriend. It might actually be a huge weight that'll be lifted. Good luck and keep us updated.

Hey Crown-

I meant to pm you to wish you luck beforehand. Glad everything went well...congrats on having gotten it done. I cannot imagine you'll have to use dermatch after 3500 grafts grow out on your crown.

Let me know if I can help with any advice or anything... I'm five weeks ahead of you.

We both made a great choice with Dr. Feller.