HarryLemon

I wouldn't bother, if I were you. You'll get far better proven, and MUCH less expensive results by going on Propecia (Finasteride) and/or Rogaine (Minoxidil). I'm sorry but $800 (for just 8 sessions)?! That kind of price would be hard to swallow with a PROVEN therapy, at that rate. I'm interested in maybe one day trying it out for myself (mostly just out of curiosity and entertainment), but certainly not if it's going to cost 100 bucks a pop (unless I knew my hair would almost certainly grow back from it). Where are the before and after photoes (if there are any), and do they guarantee anything for those 8 precious sessions - maybe a hair or two???

Hi cj, Now I know I'm not black, and I know I'm not a woman, but I HAVE done a LOT (lots and lots) of reading on the subject of HT's, in general, and have come across at least a few Doctor's papers where it was mentioned that once the transplanted hair follicle has taken root and has really started to grow, you can treat your hair in any fashion that you would treat it otherwise. Color it, perm it, do whatever you want to with it. If anything, by that stage it's actually more genetically robust than the hair that it's replacing (once it's rooted and growing). bateman, I have to say that I have also come across at least a couple instances (when doing the same reading as mentioned above) where it was mentioned that, because of the tight curling of black people's hair (which improves on the appearance of actual coverage - like wavy hair does), and the fact that the skin, as well, is so dark (so there's much less contrast), that those two elements in particular tend to make black people very good candidates for all follicular HT's. From the pictures I've seen, I'd have to agree - in fact I can't recall if I've ever seen a bad all FU HT on a black person! Hope this helps... Harry

I'm back on the minox as well, and I just squeeze a few drops (at the most) at a time onto a certain part of my head and then rub the liquid around to distribute it with my finger. Then move on to the next spot. It sounds like maybe you're squeezing the whole dripper-full amount at once? Try spreading it out and "catching" the drops with your finger (which allows for a better coverage anyway by spreading/rubbing it in).

I bought the 4 month pack of Kirkland brand 5% minox myself. Let me know if you get any lingering redness from using it - I sure did! Additionally, I switched to the generics brand 5mg finasteride from http://www.generics-online-pharmacy.com/ProductList.htm . I've been splitting it 4 ways w/ a pill cutter and that 60(x4) day supply only cost 40 bucks. No complaints so far! [This message was edited by HarryLemon on January 11, 2003 at 05:10 PM.]

Why pay more if you're getting exactly the same thing for less (I'm talking about drugs here)?

For finasteride (Propecia &/or Proscar): http://www.generics-online-pharmacy.com/ProductList.htm Costco does sell 5% minox.

My crown started thinning about 3 years ago (to the point where I really noticed it). Shortly after, I began taking Propecia, and have been on it ever since. The reason I haven't let up on using the drug is because it only took 3 months from the point where I started taking it for my crown to immediately reverse the course it was going in, and become FULL again by the 8-9 month mark. It hasn't budged since then, and I am positive that Propecia is to thank for this. My frontal recession, I'm sure, would have receeded much quicker as well. But the crown and far back-reaching frontal regions are still full, which means that - so long as I stay on finsteride - they'll no doubt stay that way for a good while longer (if not better). Definately make it your first port of call before deciding on anything *else*, (and make sure you research THAT option ad nauseam). I consider myself not one of a lucky few responders to the drug, but rather as one of the majority for whom the results have performed as advertised (zero side effects, BTW).

Pat, I was going to log in here today and comment on how nice the new site design was... What happened? Was I alone in liking the new design?? It took a little getting used to, but I thought it was pretty nice! ???

Pat, I was going to log in here today and comment on how nice the new site design was... What happened? Was I alone in liking the new design?? It took a little getting used to, but I thought it was pretty nice! ???

Sunya, I don't know how bad your recession is, exactly, but if you're considering hair transplantation, then I would definately say that you may want to visit or call Shapiro Medical Center (http://www.shapiromedical.com/), and ask them to send you a brochure. Unlike the before-after pictures you'll find merely on their website, their brochure will show you the pictures of a women (or two) who, I gather, are a close match for the condition you describe.

Not pretending to be a doctor here, guys. I just happen to have asked my doc (Shapiro) the same question, myself, and - having done so - thought I would pass on the words he told me. He said that I would know if it was the actual root of the graft coming out if it was followed by some blood flow - like an opened wound. There is a similarity in shape to the base of the follicle and the base of the entire graft (as they both "bulb-out"), it's true. That's why I made sure to mention about the bleeding. The use of the term "Yikes", werewolfhead (and anyone else who didn't catch on to this), was there to convey my sense of concern and empathy, not induce a state of hysteria. Sorry for that little exclamation point at the end there, too - I know they can get kinda scary... Am I still absolutely, hysterically incorrect? I was just repeating what Dr Shapiro told me, himself. I would not have presumed to speak on the subject otherwise. Obviously, calling his doctor should be the next port of call. [This message was edited by HarryLemon on January 06, 2003 at 06:55 AM.]

Yikes! If you're seeing the tear drop shaped bulb base of the follicle along with the shaft, that IS the actual graft, in its entirety, coming out... Is it happening alot? Also, if it IS the bulb, then you should see some blood following the loss, like a re-opened wound (which it is, basically).

That's what's happening with me (maybe not over 2 days, but pretty rapidly though), and yeah, that's totally normal, from what I've learned.

Look, I just want to say, first of all, that I'm sorry for attacking you like I just did, Paul. It was a bit out of line (in my book) for me to have a go at you like that, and I sincerely apologize if I offended you. The purpose of this site IS to give people, such as yourself, the best advice possible based off of who you are, where YOU'RE at, and what your goals are. Yes, it's primary purpose is to steer people into the hands of excellent, trust-worthy surgeons - if a HT is for you, but - because this forum is made up of people who have had both good AND bad experiences (of every kind imaginable), you will find that you're not necessarily going to be getting a symphony of sympathy for what it is that ails you. This is because of the SIMPLE FACT that YOUR PLAN (of just topping off with more HT's as you progress down the road) is INFEASABLE given the limited amount of supply you have to work with, if you're looking to maintain a high school hairline (unless you fully expect not to recede any further - which is a HUMUNGOUS GAMBLE). YOU REALLY, REALLY, REALLY NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK HERE, PAUL! This is a basic fact regarding Hair Transplantation. You will very likely look like a FREAK by the time you're 35 if you insist on maintaining a high school hairline, because you will find out ??“ the hard way ??“ that your wonderful plan did not take into account the simple law of supply not meeting demand. Your impulsive inclination to immediately jump into the hands of any doctor willing to take you is going to spell ruin for your future if you don't seriously step back, DO YOUR RESEARCH, and rethink your whole approach on this. To get back to the spirit of sharing ideas constructively, though, I want to encourage you to do as you, yourself, said: >>> "I would like to show you all some close-up pics on here and take a little poll. How would i go about doing this ??? thanks !!!" <<< I think that that's actually a great idea, Paul. I believe that taking a poll may actually be of further benefit. You never know, right? To post pics, I believe all you need to do is check the box marked "Post Attachment", under the actual text box where you type your replies (under "Options"). Please give this a try so that we can all have a look at your current level of recession. Peace, HarryLemon

Okey Dokey Pauwy, you wanna to be tweated wight away? Awwwww! You say you towd da good docta you insisted on having a trwanspwant, but he wouldn't budge??! Awwwww, you aaah in BIG BIG BIG TWOUBWE!!! Wet me tew you something: you DEFINATELY ARE in big trouble, Paul, because you seem to have always been used to getting what you wanted in life, pretty sharpish, by my reckoning, and without much interference for the sake of what was necessarily best for you in life. F^@k me if I'm wrong, but I'll bet you come from a pretty well-to-do family, and they never realized that what you actually needed in life was either a hell of a good spanking every once in a while, and/or a decent military academy. Maybe you think that all anything takes in life is a few "well-placed" questions to "rouse the spirits of the good hearted (but dumb) hoi polloi of the world" in order to get what it is you're after on the web (i.e.- mass concession for what it is you're actually striving after in the depths of your super ego). Your friend probably didn't advise you to plumb the depths of this website in a fashion analogous to the manner in which you're attempting. He/she probably meant for you to actually READ a few of the EXPERIENCES logged heavily within it, before looking like an ASS by asking so many FRICKING, ridiculously UNREAD questions! You're going to have to change your name now (do you realize?) before you're forever regarded as the spoiled brat whose always had everything served up to him on a platter and couldn't be bothered to actually dig a little bit into the facts for himself before making a potential ass of himself in revealing how "important" his questions were above anybody else's (regardless of the fact that they were ALL asked a thousand times before ??“ if one would only LOOK) on this website! Dr Berstein is one of the finest hair transplant surgeons on the PLANET. How do you think he came about achieving such a reputation - by delivering anything less than absolutely natural hair transplantations? Do you actually believe that a natural appearance is the NORM for a hair transplant surgeon's delivery???! Tell you what, Paul, you go ahead and keep your appointment with MHR, ??cause you obviously fall within that miniscule proportion of individuals, in life, whose impulses always prove to be infallible. Don't ask me to name any of the ones I actually know of, in life ??“ just rest safe in the knowledge that you're the first of these superheroes that any of us has ever heard of, let alone met! Rock on, man! P.S. - Do you remember where it was I said I'd gotten my HT from, how about jotronic's (or are you okay with doing a little reading within the same thread you actually started?)??? [This message was SEVERELY edited by HarryLemon on January 05, 2003 at 01:34 AM.] [This message was edited by HarryLemon on January 05, 2003 at 01:37 AM.]

Yeah really, just look at the title of his post: "HELPPP I NEED A TRANSPLANT NOW !!!!!!" If that doesn't say it all, what does? Is it even worth trying to reason with a kid like this? What difference would anything anyone say make in a situation where someone in the heat of that 'moment' see's he's got today's HT technology available? Apparently it's not enough to explain that the technology on it's own can't give you the amount of grafts required to maintain a high school hairline in most cases. Nor does it seem to be of any use to tell someone who, on the surface, appears to want to learn more about his options, that what he really needs to do is take 2 steps back and READ A LITTLE BIT FOR A FRICKING CHANGE! That even a bald CROWN can't be fully covered by all the hair you've got spare for a transplant!

Why do I even bother? Like I spent my 20's in a frickin' hole in the ground??! First of all, I said 5 to 7 years, NOT 15 to 20! Where do you even get that number?! Secondly: >>> "Your only young once and i cant go through my 20's depressed about losing hair.I just got a job after finishing college.I enjoy going out,partying,the nyc night life,drinking,the beautiful women,etc,etc....my life actually is on the up an up.But the only thing thats really upsetting me is my hairloss.Up until about a year ago i was doing fine until i started examining my head in the mirror and said "Yikes,im starting to recede" and now it seems like its accelarating more.Seems like the front is thinning out a little too." <<< Yeah, you're losing hair. Did you happen to read anything else I told you about that was going to happen soon?! If you even bothered to spend SOME time reading a FRACTION of the posts on this site (as I all but fricking begged you to do) - that your friend recommended to you, you wouldn't be coming back with those snap-shot answers of yours, followed by those ridiculous snap-shot questions! So why did you come visiting these parts, Paul? For self-justification of what you were really hoping to get approval for, or actual pearls of WISDOM that ANYBODY would be LOATHE to do without - given time??? As Crowded House once said, "Experience is cheap. I shoulda' listened to the warning." Unless you're frickin' Moby, you are too young to be doing a HT at your age, let alone restore a high-school hairline. Anybody else care to have a try here? Enjoy your evening Paul! Later, HarryLemon

Jesus Christ Paul80! DO NOT GO TO MHR OR BOSLEY!!!! You need to calm down and think about what it is you are currently so overwhelmingly ready to throw yourself into without apparent regard for any thoughtful approach to what will constitute - should you do it - probably the most impacting decision of your life. Not being conceited here, but I, myself, happen to be a pretty sensational looking guy as well. IT WAS NOT EASY when my appearance started to change due to frontal recession when I was 23. But guess what? That's not all that's going to change, my friend! Your facial and bodily physiology is going to mature as well, as will your emotional sense of security and overall knowledge of self in the world. THIS HAS TO BE GIVEN ITS OWN ROOM TO GROW BEFORE YOU THINK ABOUT HT! Right now, you're probably still wanting to hang on (and why not?!) to the fast-fleeting remnants of your boyishly good looks. What works is unquestionably good, and when something starts barging in and changing that then it is only human to feel excruciating discomfort at not knowing what the hell this change is going to come to in the end. Trust me when I tell you (please God let him take a deep breath before continuing and let him actually HEAR THIS!) that if you're currently starting to experience recession from the front of your hairline, you should first of all take a deep breath, put down the checkbook &/or credit card(s), and set yourself at least a week of homework READING THE POSTS ON THIS WEBSITE! I'm sorry to be coming at you like this but your (understandable) desperation is calling for a BOOT IN THE ASS! There are an incalculable number of disaster cases, particularly from MHR and Bosley, where young men, like you, have fallen sway to the media glitz shelled out by these hair mills, and were then DESTROYED by what was left of their self esteem through the disfiguringly horrendous clumsiness they were subjected to. Your face is going to mature, in a subtle but powerful way, over the next 5 to 7 years, which will actually COMPLIMENT a slight recession in the corners of your hairline. You can forget it if you think that a HT is going to be the answer for you, in the long run, if you insist on restoring your high school hairline appearance (or do you not care to live beyond 35?). At the most, people are given between 4500 to 6000 grafts-worth of transplantable hair, PERIOD. YOU DON'T YET KNOW HOW MUCH YOU'RE GOING TO NEED. You're genes may dictate that your crown AND frontal region are going to disappear by the time you're 30. Going about getting a HT now is NOT going to leave you with the grafts in reserve you would need otherwise if this should be the case! What's more, you will be doing yourself a disservice by not allowing yourself to see how good you're going to look with a matured, slightly recessed-at-the-corners, hairline! If I'm wrong, then shoot me! You will never know if I'm wrong unless you GIVE IT TIME and find out for yourself! I am 31 years of age now, and 7 weeks post-op from my first HT ever. I started Propecia 3 years ago and it reversed the loss I was starting to experience from the crown of my head and stayed solid ever since. The loss I experienced in the front portion of my head actually looked GOOD ??“ AFTER MY FACE MATURED A BIT TO MATCH IT (as well as my emotional sense of security ??“ or should that be the other way around?) over the years, until that loss started to go BEYOND the (matured) corners of my hairline. I waited several years to see if it seemed to be stabilizing, and it was ??“ THEN I took the plunge, but only with one of the best surgeons in the field (Dr Shapiro, from the Shapiro Medical Group ??“ the same Dr who worked on Pat's HT [the publisher of this website]). Do yourself a favor and check out the other post I wrote for the "im only 21 and noticing baldness in frontal area" under the "Post your questions for Hair Transplant Surgeons here!" section. All the best! HarryLemon

Holy Shit dodgedabullet - that's a frickin' horror story! I am sorry to hear that you went through that, but glad to hear you went to Shapiro in the end - he's the man!

Keep reading...

I wish someone would have told me to do the following things when I was 23, when I started receding from the front (I'm 31 now): 1. Start taking Propecia. 2. Slap on a bit of Emu Oil before bedtime, and rub it into your scalp/hairline in particular. The fatty tissue underlying your scalp is beginning to disappear thanks to age and being male. Females don't lose any of this fatty layer, and it's held by some to be one of the contributing factors towards Male Pattern Baldness. Emu Oil has been shown to significantly restore this fatty layer beneath your scalp, and to actually increase the width of your hair follicles in the process. Ever hear of the now-deceased actor Anthony Perkins? According to an interview I once read several years ago, in Playboy magazine, given by actor Christopher Walken, Anthony Perkins shared the following advice with him when he expressed his concern about his receding hairline: (to paraphrase) "...that the reason that men go bald is because after a certain age they lose the layer of lanolin beneath the scalp which women always retain, making it get tighter and consequently constricting the blood flow required - at that level - to feed the follicles in perpetuity... That if you grab a really good fistful of your hair, from all topside areas, and really yank it in all directions for a couple minutes every day, that that will keep the scalp nice and loose, and your hair won't fall out." Christopher Walken then went on to say that Perkins said that ever since he started doing that, he never looked back. Walken then went on to say that that's exactly what he's been doing every day of his life since then as well ??“ and look at him now! I, myself, don't have the inclination to do this to myself EVERY DAY, so it makes sense to me that Emu oil is actually a means to the same end! If you want to know an excellent source of knowledge on all the ways in which your hair can benefit, spend 15 bucks and buy/download this book, ??Alternative Treatments for Hair Loss', available at http://thinningscalp.com/. You'll find links to 89 natural treatments, supplements, and remedies (with no half-arsed science behind them either ??“ yet another thing I wish I was told about when I was 23). Don't worry about the "89" bit, either, just read it and you'll learn a hell of a lot about some of the more beneficial vitamins, shampoos, and DHT cleaners that are available out there at grocery store prices already. 3 or 4 of the products listed within have proven useful enough for many alone. Hope this helps... HarryLemon

The only thing that would hinder Propecia here is NOT taking it! There is no chemicals being induced to interact with Propecia from either of the systems you say you are currently on. Go for it! I started it about 3 years ago (31 now) when I noticed I was starting to lose some hair in the crown area, and it bolted back into shape only 3 months later. It hasn't budged since.

Wow - just a third party view here: I don't think Paul148 was in need of being told to "relax" and to stop being "so childish", actually. No offence either, I think he just gave a very thoughtful discourse on the dangers of generalizations when drawing assumptions, as there are clearly more elements involved in psychology than many of us "Armchair Psychologists" are aware of - doesn't mean we shouldn't take note of them either, whatever one's slant on the angle may be. In retrospect, I think you will see that both of your posts are still being written for the same cause. Everyone IS giving good, well thought-out, and considered opinions and ideas here. I'm sure there was no intention to step on anyone's toes even if that's how one was tempted to feel - at first glance... [This message was edited by HarryLemon on January 03, 2003 at 04:28 PM.]

vocor1, For my donor scar I actually mix a bit of pure Aloe gel with a couple drops of Emu Oil. Seriously, do a search on google for "Emu Oil, research", or check out http://www.emuhealthproducts.com/research.html (just one of many). Emu Oil is rare due to it's unique molecular weight - which is one of the few natural substances capable of not just penetrating the human dermis, but doing so very quickly, easily, and deeply. Because it is also an excellent emollient, when mixed with other substances it makes a superlative delivery vehicle. It is rich in Linolenic and Oleic acid which are anti-inflammatory agents, plus it is rich in Fatty Omega 3, 6, and 9 acids as well. And what is also totally unique to this stuff is how jam-packed with collagen it is. It actually replenishes the fatty layer beneath our scalps, which never gets depleted in women like it does for men. Read up on it ??“ it looks, and feels, pretty amazing (I found the cheapest source to be from http://www.4emu-oils.com/)! As for the redness - mine has gone down loads as well over the past couple of weeks, but because I had some work on the temples also, it doesn't exactly appear like your average "slight sun burn", unfortunately!

csofrank, If you work in an office environment where a hat would be out of place, then please do not think that 1 week will be enough. I had 2300+ grafts transplanted 7.5 weeks ago (Shapiro) to my frontal region and temples, and my head is STILL a little too pink on occasion. I still have a good deal of hair in the frontal core, and the crown is full (has been ever since starting Propecia almost 3 years). Regardless of this, there have been MANY more days than not that I simply cannot (in my opinion) leave the house without my cap - certainly never left home w/out it for the first 3 to 4 weeks. I know this isn't the same for many people, but at the very LEAST you should plan for a minimum of 2 weeks off. What's more, I definitely experienced a bit of shock loss at the 3 to 5 week mark where probably around 15 to 20% of the existing hair said "later!" and took off, but it seems that that has ended now (thank God), and even the grafts are beginning to grow in. Being very fair skinned and pale DOESN'T help, so get a tan (but NOT a burn) before it as well, and that should help. I'll tell you what else will help calm the redness down - Folligen (http://www.folligen.com/) - a copper-peptide based cream that really calms the scalp down BIG TIME. FNS (http://www.osmotics.com/) is also excellent for feeding the follicles in such an important period as well - where they'll be fighting over blood supply for the first few weeks to get a foothold in on life. I found that rubbing a bit of both in the palm of my hand with a couple drops of Emu Oil (which penetrates deeply into the skin and has it's own anti-inflammatory properties as well - http://www.4emu-oils.com/), and then applying the mix to my head has given me the most amazing results to date. That sucker calms down tremendously after that and looks perfectly normal again! Hope this helps... Sincerely, Harry