Pat - Community Publisher

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: doug h Date: 7/4/01 Time: 12:30:49 AM Remote Name: 4.40.61.124 Comments I saw the Bosley infomercial. I had a consultation & was convinced. I did no research. I had 1600 grafts 10/2000 for $10,600. I was pleased also, until I did research and found out Bosley is too expensive and slightly behind the times. I had my second procedure by Dr. Victor Hasson at Hasson & Wong in Vancouver, B.C. 1530 grafts for $6,000. The differences were significant. At Hasson & Wong: the procedure was significantly less painful, the price was more reasonable with 1/2 paid ahead instead of full payment required ahead. The price was $4/graft for up to 1500, $2/graft for any over 1500! (He has done some procedures of 2400 to 3000 grafts in one session, first session. It was my second, so scalp elasticity limited the number for me.) The instrument used to cut the recipient sites was smaller (I could hear the difference). They also were willing (able)to put grafts in my temples. Bosley wouldn't do that, I was told I would look like an orangutan. Another vital difference. I paid for EXACTLY 1600 grafts at Bosley. I asked what if the number they actually get is different? (You know it will be). They Mumbled, hemmed and hawed and did everything but answer the question. You know, of course, what the answer was. If they got fewer than 1600 follicular units, they would HAVE TO cut the ones with 2,3 or four hairs into single hairs in order to fill up the prepunched 1600 holes. Either that or leave holes unfilled and gaps in the pattern, which I have a bit of in the crown. I was told no more holes would be cut, so if they got more than 1600 grafts then either singles were placed together into single sites or they were thrown away. The key is, they would not answer my question, except to say, "It works out". Tell me, does that sound like the best in the business??? Dr. Hasson cuts most of the recipient sites but stops short, waits for the EXACT count of follicular units, and then cuts EXACTLY that many sites. Then, That is what you are charged for.No other method is acceptable or honest. Also, one technician uses a microscope to dissect across the donor strip, obtaining squarish layers one follicular unit thick, which are then layed out flat and further dissected into follicular units by others. Thay claim to get 20-30% higher yield than without the microscope. I saw no microscope at Bosley. Another thing about Bosley. Although they will give you references to call, they will never let you see a patient in the clinic. They have a secret exit door down the hall from the entrance. If anyone else is in the clinic, they wait until the "coast is clear" before they let you leave the room. They also have a separate entrance for returning patients. No patients ever see each other. They say it's for privacy. In contrast, Hasson & Wong's clinic and the consultation office in Seattle were both very open & unembarassed, no skulking about or secret doors. I hope this helps those searching for a good surgeon.

From: CD Date: 7/4/01 Time: 3:41:16 PM Remote Name: 12.79.245.87 Comments I agree with you. It would be best if all hair transplant surgeons were trained via fellowship in hair transplant surgery following training in dermatology or surgery. Unfortunately, such training programs don't exist, formally, and this makes judging transplant surgeons more difficult. In addition, the stigma of hair transplants keeps most physicians from even contemplating going into the field. Even most dermatologists who specialize in facial peels and plastic surgeons who do face lifts and breast augmentation look down on hair transplants. Every kid wants to be a cardiologist, cardiothoracic or trauma surgeon; almost no one who's gone to medical school wants to be a hair transplant surgeon. There's a schism between the general medical community and hair transplantation that keeps it in the dark corners of medical practice. I agree with you absolutely one must be meticulously thorough in choosing a doctor. The aforementioned problems make it all the more difficult.

From: a board certified surgeon Date: 7/4/01 Time: 12:52:41 PM Remote Name: 4.3.163.132 Comments C.D. board certified M.D.: I agree with you. Certainly, one is ultimately judged by the quality of work and board certification does not necessarily guarentee a perfect result. However, I suggest patients be very careful about who they choose to perform their surgery because a poor result can lead to permanent disfigurement. Furthermore, you and I realize (particularly if you are a surgeon) that proper wound closure and wound healing are critical to prevent scarring, infection and preserve a limited donor area. A good surgeon is able to handle complications and does not overestimate results. I find it hard to believe that you would reccommend patients not to seek out well trained doctor's who have a surgical background. I reccommend people stay away from ER doctors, family practice doctors and physican assistants. Stay with reputable dermatologists, general surgeons, and plastic surgeons. I know their are probably some good hair transplant doctors I may be eliminating but I think the odds are in your favor if you stick with the above mentioned doctors. Fortunately, some of the doctors in Pat's list fit the bill. Still be very careful ask the doctors what their original training is in, ask if the doctor performs the entire surgery, particularly graft harvest and closeure of the donar area and he better be arranging the grafts. Avoid places where you don't meet the doctor from beginning or are unsure of which doctor is going to operate on you. Anyplace that promises too much-- run for your life. See actual patients and not just the salesmans transplant. See before and after pictures. Of course notheing beats a good result on a family member or friend. If necessary travel and meet at least 3 transplant doctors prior to beginning replacement. Once this journey is started it is very difficult to stop and a bad result ultimately is your choice. FYI- A patient of mine was a owner of a hair transplant company (one of the largest in the area). You would think all of the centers are owned by doctors but many are hair replacement centers turned into transplant centers. Anyway, he offered me a job doing hair transplants because one of his doctors left town and he had a good result from my surgery. Although I am a very experienced surgeon I had no experience in transplant surgery. He said he had a book I could read and I could practice my first couple transplants on him. That is when my skeptisim began. I would get 50% of the income generated. I mean what kind of unethical person does surgery so uninformed and untrained. I have a feeling many are brought into the buisness with the lure of money and poor training. Of course he was turned down- In fact he had trouble finding a doctor to do it noted by the fact that he called me repeatedly for months to join him. I appoligize for the length. I see a large volume patients in my office each week and part of my history includes previous surgery and many a man has had transplants with bad results. My friends and brother included. None with "undetectable, thick, own groing hair" results. Most I think wish they had done nothing. Most went to clinics with the greatest advertising never looking for a doctors credentials or training and never seeing a doctor untill surgery. They believe the pictures and advertising is proof enough. That may be the way they buy shampoo but not the way you search for a doctor in cosmetic or any other surgery. Finding a well trained doctor in this field is not easy. But limit your choices of failure by sticking to basic backgroud training. I'm all for hair restoration surgery but be realistic, save up your money, wait until your at least 30 to begin. Understand that even good surgery can have complications and poor results. Most of all pick a good doctor.

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: CD, MD, Board Certified Date: 7/4/01 Time: 7:56:29 AM Remote Name: 12.79.195.57 The results of the transplant surgeon are the ultimate test of skill. I work with many board certified surgeons, but, realistically, board certification does not guarantee skill or good outcomes any more than SAT scores guarantee sucess in life. As this industry is largely unregulated and unreimbursed, it's the ultimate medical buyer's market. One can only judge the surgeon by their experience and outcomes, no matter what their original training and educational background.

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: CD, MD, Board Certified Date: 7/4/01 Time: 7:56:29 AM Remote Name: 12.79.195.57 The results of the transplant surgeon are the ultimate test of skill. I work with many board certified surgeons, but, realistically, board certification does not guarantee skill or good outcomes any more than SAT scores guarantee sucess in life. As this industry is largely unregulated and unreimbursed, it's the ultimate medical buyer's market. One can only judge the surgeon by their experience and outcomes, no matter what their original training and educational background.

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: MD Date: 7/1/01 Time: 10:48:03 PM Remote Name: 64.252.68.150 Comments Dutasteride works alot like propecia. The difference being that Dut blocks two types (A and B) of the enzyme that converts Testosterone into DHT while Propecia only blocks one. The results do in fact look encouraging (I saw pics) but the safety profile has been of some concern. Also, there is a question about it's effectivness on the frontal portion of the scalp. I think it's strength will be in retaining your current haircount and growing a modest amount of hair (better then propecia does). Many people are troubled by the side effects of propecia. Since Dut is a "souped up" propecia, I guess we can expect the side effects to be more common and severe. Dut is actually indicated for the treatment of enlarged prostate just like proscar (5mg propecia)was at first. The NDA for Dut was submitted to the FDA for the treatment of enlarged prostate but not for hairloss just yet. They have completed their phase 2 trials and are set to begin phase 3 trials. It could be some time before it is approved if at all. However, if it gets approved for enlarged prostates, I'm sure people will take their chances by taking it for hairloss. I would not recommend this, but I think it's a reality. It was the same situation when proscar came out. Let's keep our fingers crossed, Take Care

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: MD Date: 7/1/01 Time: 10:48:03 PM Remote Name: 64.252.68.150 Comments Dutasteride works alot like propecia. The difference being that Dut blocks two types (A and B) of the enzyme that converts Testosterone into DHT while Propecia only blocks one. The results do in fact look encouraging (I saw pics) but the safety profile has been of some concern. Also, there is a question about it's effectivness on the frontal portion of the scalp. I think it's strength will be in retaining your current haircount and growing a modest amount of hair (better then propecia does). Many people are troubled by the side effects of propecia. Since Dut is a "souped up" propecia, I guess we can expect the side effects to be more common and severe. Dut is actually indicated for the treatment of enlarged prostate just like proscar (5mg propecia)was at first. The NDA for Dut was submitted to the FDA for the treatment of enlarged prostate but not for hairloss just yet. They have completed their phase 2 trials and are set to begin phase 3 trials. It could be some time before it is approved if at all. However, if it gets approved for enlarged prostates, I'm sure people will take their chances by taking it for hairloss. I would not recommend this, but I think it's a reality. It was the same situation when proscar came out. Let's keep our fingers crossed, Take Care

From: J.O. Date: 7/1/01 Time: 4:33:11 PM Remote Name: 24.20.64.166 Comments Actually Burt Reynolds does not wear a wig/rug anymore..he was showing off his transplants on a T.V. interview appx 1 year ago..clearly stating how he loved having his own hair re-distributed/transplanted..He actually was pulling his hair..In what I saw it was a very nice result..during the interview he did not state his Doctors name however.or I missed it....I would be curious if anyone knows the name.??

From: Bob C Date: 7/1/01 Time: 1:55:13 PM Remote Name: 205.188.193.186 Comments Kenny Rogers: Yes, there's a picture of him with Dr Bosley in their offices. Tom Arnold: I heard him admit it on TV. Nicolos Cage: Probably. Roy Clark and Jack Nicholson, a long time ago. As far as Mel Gibson, Rob Schneier and so on, you can't tell how much is the skillful work of makeup people. Look how good Sean Connery's wig is in Hunt For Red October. Burt Reynolds still wears a hairpiece, but it is WAY better than his old ones.

From: LB Date: 6/29/01 Time: 3:18:50 PM Remote Name: 137.151.65.27 Comments Robert Blake is another one that had lots of work done. Also, Sylvestor Stallone. LB

From: SJ Date: 6/29/01 Time: 8:36:33 AM Remote Name: 63.21.13.108 Comments Mel Gibson. I would speculate. Compare Mad Max to What Women Want. John Travolta's entire hairline changed drastically. He doesn't have a front "v" anymore. Tom Arnold admitted to it. The main guy on Arliss looked a lot thinner when he did the first Batman Movie, you could also see mini grafts. Al Pacino's hair thickens every movie reference devils advocate versus any given sunday. Rumors are Axle Rose got a very poor transplant. The lead singer from poison wears a hideous wig. So does the lead singer from Quiet Riot who has more hair with the wig than he ever had. Nick Cage keeps getting thicker for some reason reference leaving las vegas versus gone in sixty seconds. The guy from rockford files I forget his name got some pretty bad work done. Richard Simmons has had a lot of work over the years. Andre Agassi went for a consultation but decided against it. Matt Lauer on the news had the new technique done. I am still questioning Christian Slater and Charlie Sheen both with very high foreheads. But I can't tell for sure Burt Reynolds supposedly has to cover up a bad plug job. So did Frank Sinatra. Tony Curtis has the worst wig in show business. David Lee Roth (pity) has the second. Tom Jones got the mini plugs. His new song should be: It's not unusual to detect my mini plugs.. Some rock stars seem to be completely unaffected Ozzy, Aerosmith-Steven Tyler, Joe Perry-, Jimmy Page, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, Robert Plant.. I think Heroin has acted as a preservative..

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: GA Date: 6/28/01 Time: 8:21:30 PM Remote Name: 207.224.149.231 Comments Anybody want to contribute what they know of famous people with HTs? We know Elton John many years ago but now has dumped his many hats in favor of a really nice looking wig. I have heard that Kenny Rogers and Roy Clark did. Senator Joe Biden sure looks like he did (probably not FUs). And hey, why do so many aging rock&roll performers still have hair? Are they just not talking about it?

On the old discussion group gossiping about what celebrity had their hair transplant done where was just too much fun. So go ahead and sue me Bruce Willis, Elton John, Tom Arnold, Micheal Keaton . . . But I couldn't resist resurecting this topic. Pat

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: Tom Date: 6/26/01 Time: 11:30:04 PM Remote Name: 24.25.131.49 Comments I have had three sessions with Dr. Beehner (April 2000, September 2000 and May 2001) and I have been completely satisfied with his work and my results. I am in my late 30's and have been struggling with hair loss for about 15 years. I first tried "spray on" hair in the early 90's. I then went with a "hair system" back in 1993. I continued to wear a hairpiece until 1998. I grew tired of the maintenance and the shoddy appearance, not to mention expense. I then started Propecia/Minoxidil with very minimal results (I didn't lose any additional hair) and continued until I had my first transplant in April of 2000. I first went to a consultation session with Dr. Beehner and found him to be a very knowledgeable and pleasant man. He was not a salesman. He presented the facts in a straight forward manner and he let me make the decision whether or not to pursue a HT. No pressure! I had been through the salesman act before and I was armed with questions I had prepared through extensive research on the subject. One important thing to note about my consultation is that I learned that a guy I work with every day, that I did not know had a HT, was a patient of Dr. Beehner's a few years back. It wasn't until I recognized his picture in one of the before and after shots that I knew he had hairtransplants. Let's talk straight here - bald(ing) men take note of other men's hair. If something "funny" was going on with my co-worker's head, I think I would have noticed in the previous two years that I worked with him. After I confronted him that I saw his before and after shots, It was then that I had my first "eyes on" contact with a transplant recipient. I took a very up close look and talked in depth with him. It was then that I made my decision to have Dr. Beehner perform my HT. Since my HTs I have not had one single person say that anything looks unusual. They say "are you growing more hair or something?" I say "yeah, those new pills on the market are really something." It has been my experience that gradual hair replacement is better. First, over 95% of my grafts took and are growing hair. Second, people did not notice the new hair growth because it was gradual. In fact, besides my mother and father, no one in my family knows about my HTs. The have only commented that I am growing hair. And believe me, with my family, if it looked fake or unnatural they would surely let me know, as they did with my hairpieces. I do not have any scarring on the transplant area. My donor area has only a thin line scar that I know is there but has not yet been detected by any hair dresser/barber(and I don't go to the same one all the time.) I would recommend his services and the services of his staff to anyone. I apologize for being long winded, but felt that I should respond for those who are trying to decide what and who as I had to.

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: Tom Date: 6/26/01 Time: 11:30:04 PM Remote Name: 24.25.131.49 Comments I have had three sessions with Dr. Beehner (April 2000, September 2000 and May 2001) and I have been completely satisfied with his work and my results. I am in my late 30's and have been struggling with hair loss for about 15 years. I first tried "spray on" hair in the early 90's. I then went with a "hair system" back in 1993. I continued to wear a hairpiece until 1998. I grew tired of the maintenance and the shoddy appearance, not to mention expense. I then started Propecia/Minoxidil with very minimal results (I didn't lose any additional hair) and continued until I had my first transplant in April of 2000. I first went to a consultation session with Dr. Beehner and found him to be a very knowledgeable and pleasant man. He was not a salesman. He presented the facts in a straight forward manner and he let me make the decision whether or not to pursue a HT. No pressure! I had been through the salesman act before and I was armed with questions I had prepared through extensive research on the subject. One important thing to note about my consultation is that I learned that a guy I work with every day, that I did not know had a HT, was a patient of Dr. Beehner's a few years back. It wasn't until I recognized his picture in one of the before and after shots that I knew he had hairtransplants. Let's talk straight here - bald(ing) men take note of other men's hair. If something "funny" was going on with my co-worker's head, I think I would have noticed in the previous two years that I worked with him. After I confronted him that I saw his before and after shots, It was then that I had my first "eyes on" contact with a transplant recipient. I took a very up close look and talked in depth with him. It was then that I made my decision to have Dr. Beehner perform my HT. Since my HTs I have not had one single person say that anything looks unusual. They say "are you growing more hair or something?" I say "yeah, those new pills on the market are really something." It has been my experience that gradual hair replacement is better. First, over 95% of my grafts took and are growing hair. Second, people did not notice the new hair growth because it was gradual. In fact, besides my mother and father, no one in my family knows about my HTs. The have only commented that I am growing hair. And believe me, with my family, if it looked fake or unnatural they would surely let me know, as they did with my hairpieces. I do not have any scarring on the transplant area. My donor area has only a thin line scar that I know is there but has not yet been detected by any hair dresser/barber(and I don't go to the same one all the time.) I would recommend his services and the services of his staff to anyone. I apologize for being long winded, but felt that I should respond for those who are trying to decide what and who as I had to.

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: 24 yrs. old and freaked From: j20 Date: 6/26/01 Time: 5:42:15 AM Remote Name: 64.12.96.107 Comments I have tried both propecia and monoxidil but both have had little positive effects. Propecia seemed to slow my hair loss, but because I've lost so much hair already I wanted to try something that would help it regrow, even if just a little. Monoxidil hasn't worked at all to this point and I've been taking it for about 5 months. I've now turned to researching hair transplants and your site has been extremely helpful (thanks Pat). But still I'm very unsure about going through with this because, as someone stated earlier, I'd rather be bald (even though it bugs the hell out of me) than be butchered for life. Shapiro sounds like a great choice and I'm willing to travel anywhere for the best but it all seems to good to be true. If you ask any doctor for a sampling of their work of course they're going to show you their best. Will any any doctor, including Shapiro, show a true sample? Will any doctor tell you the real odds of success? Is 24 too young? I'd appreciate any feedback because I don't know if I'll ever have enough confidence in a doctor to go through with this even though a successful transplant would completely change my life.

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: 24 yrs. old and freaked From: j20 Date: 6/26/01 Time: 5:42:15 AM Remote Name: 64.12.96.107 Comments I have tried both propecia and monoxidil but both have had little positive effects. Propecia seemed to slow my hair loss, but because I've lost so much hair already I wanted to try something that would help it regrow, even if just a little. Monoxidil hasn't worked at all to this point and I've been taking it for about 5 months. I've now turned to researching hair transplants and your site has been extremely helpful (thanks Pat). But still I'm very unsure about going through with this because, as someone stated earlier, I'd rather be bald (even though it bugs the hell out of me) than be butchered for life. Shapiro sounds like a great choice and I'm willing to travel anywhere for the best but it all seems to good to be true. If you ask any doctor for a sampling of their work of course they're going to show you their best. Will any any doctor, including Shapiro, show a true sample? Will any doctor tell you the real odds of success? Is 24 too young? I'd appreciate any feedback because I don't know if I'll ever have enough confidence in a doctor to go through with this even though a successful transplant would completely change my life.

It is normal for a person to experience numbness in the graft recipient area and in the donor area after surgery. The amount of time this numbness lasts and the degree of numbness seems to vary from patient to patient and surgeon to surgeon. My experience was that the numbness on the top of my head gradually went away over the course of about a month. The numbness in the donor area, although not troubling or uncomfortable, took longer to go completely away - as long as a few months in the case of one of my surgeries. At this point, two plus years after my last procedure, I can not feel even any residual feeling that I ever did surgery.

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: JH Date: 6/21/01 Time: 8:41:05 AM Remote Name: 205.188.192.186 Comments On the subject of numbness, I undestand it comes back in 3 to 6 months. It takes time for the nerves to regenerate. Initially I thouht they were just talking about the donner site with the stitches but we are also talking about the transplanted area. It feels like a little numb cap. It will all come back and your feeling will be normal, give it a little time. Maybe this would be a good time to get some new body armor inserted like a head spike. Just joking! Got to have some humor in all this crazy stuff

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: JH Date: 6/21/01 Time: 8:41:05 AM Remote Name: 205.188.192.186 Comments On the subject of numbness, I undestand it comes back in 3 to 6 months. It takes time for the nerves to regenerate. Initially I thouht they were just talking about the donner site with the stitches but we are also talking about the transplanted area. It feels like a little numb cap. It will all come back and your feeling will be normal, give it a little time. Maybe this would be a good time to get some new body armor inserted like a head spike. Just joking! Got to have some humor in all this crazy stuff

Re: Healing From: TG Date: 6/13/01 Time: 1:39:06 PM Remote Name: 204.17.16.253 Comments Another effective way of speeding up the healing process is to use a mixture of water and epsom salt. Pour a spray bottle almost competely full and put about 2 tablespoons of epsom salt and shake. Spray this on your head 3 times a day about a 1/2 before you bathe or get your hair wet. I've done this after both my FU procedures and all scabs were gone within 7 days.

From: JP Date: 6/12/01 Time: 5:43:00 AM Remote Name: 205.188.195.43 Comments I just had my first transplant and the scabing was not bad at all; however, I took the advice I read on another web site, Martin E. Tessler, M.D.- The Techniques, and he suggested soaking your head twice a day. I did that and it worked. My scabbing was really very minimal. I also sprayed twice daily with a solution of hydrogen peroxide and water(half and half). This kept it clean. My doctor told me to do this. Everything was find after about 8 days, at ten days I threw my had away. I really could of done it earlier. People really don't care. The only really bad part is the first 3 or 4 days then all starts to heal. Don't worry just do it and it will be over very fast. Do it for you and don't care what other people think, they want remember later and they will probably respect you more for seeking self improvement for youself!

From: Michael Date: 6/12/01 Time: 11:57:58 AM Remote Name: 4.40.228.3 Comments It takes about 6 to 10 days for all the scabs to fall off. If you take a week off work that will be enough time. Like the other person said who cares what other people think. Also my scabs were off in 5 days because I swam in the ocean every day. Salt water makes the scabs fall off quicker and is a great healing agent. If you can't get to the ocean soak it a couple times a day in water. Good luck.

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: GA Date: 6/11/01 Time: 9:48:17 PM Remote Name: 207.224.147.215 Comments Does anyone have any comments on how it took for their grafts to heal? How long before the scabs fall off, and how long is it noticeable? Is a week off from work long enough so you don't have to answer a lot of dumb questions when you return to work?

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community. The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below: From: GA Date: 6/11/01 Time: 9:48:17 PM Remote Name: 207.224.147.215 Comments Does anyone have any comments on how it took for their grafts to heal? How long before the scabs fall off, and how long is it noticeable? Is a week off from work long enough so you don't have to answer a lot of dumb questions when you return to work?