caveman

Dude! Idk how I never saw your thread. I have been researching mwamba and then your page popped up. It’s funny I just found out he has a clinic in jersey like 5 min from my house lol

PS - This looks amazing!

1 hour ago, SLA said:

Thanks @caveman- 'suave' is reserved for the GQ look which I have not strived for yet

To me, you’re GQ status already 😉 in 6 months they’ll be calling you for a photoshoot 

Lookin suave my man 

2 hours ago, Al - Moderator said:

You should concentrate on getting density all over and forget about lowering the hair line for now. I know I wish I could lower my own hair line just slightly, so I measured mine to compare it with yours. I'm 8.5 cm to the corners (you are about 7.5) and I'm 7.5 in the front (you are 6). I'm looking at myself and thinking I probably wouldn't want to go lower than your numbers even if I could. 

 

Thanks @Al - Moderator for your feedback. As much as I want to do something with these corners the more and more I think about it, the more it seems like I shouldn’t do it. You along with many others have given me the same suggestions, so for now I think I will fill behind the hairline.

I have been quoted about 4000 grafts by HDC to get complete density behind the hairline. I think I will move forward with this plan. (Any thoughts on if this graft count seems appropriate?) I can’t really envision how it would look with more hair but I am hoping the added density in the midscalp will allow me to cover the corners without having to lower them.

As far as comparing distances with my hairline, I wanted to mention that I did get a widows peak which is a great idea that makes the hairline seems lower than it truly is! The main hairline is about 7cm from the glabella, while the widows peak is right around 6.5! My only issue with this is that from a side angle it makes the corners look more receded. I still do think it’s worth it cause it was minimal grafts and made a nice aesthetic difference 😃 

11 hours ago, Rawkerboi said:

Laorwong is booked for one year and hence there is a delay from his side.

I think you should consult Dr Bicer too, wonderful doctor and very involved in surgeries

Ah thanks for the heads up. Makes sense why I’m not hearing back then. They’re probably too busy. I can’t wait a year, so going there is out of the options.

I actually reached out to bicer before my first procedure and decided not to go with her. I reached out this time as well and did not hear back. I’m honestly personally not floored with her results anyways.

Right now I’m very interested in HDC but unsure if I prefer Christina vs Maras 

This is awesome! I wish I thought of this lol. This is exactly what we needed in 2024. Glad to see innovation in this space utilizing modern ai tech.

Was wondering for those patients that have SMP, can the AI differentiate between follicles and ink pigment?

6 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

But you can consult with him anyway  #lifehack

LOL true that. I’ll send him a message and see what he would recommend. 

Aight sounds good. And I reached out to a few places yes. Still speaking with eugenix but they haven’t really responded to me since last week. I’m trying to keep options open. I talked to yaman, turan, and HDC. Also reached out to Laorwong but waiting to hear back. 
 

am considering reaching out to Michalis Georgiou as well. You said muresanu is good too right? I think he’s out of my budget probably 

@GeneralNorwood Haha yeah so the hairline is at 7cm but the little widow peak is at around 6.5cm. That is actually correct and the way it is. As for another picture I can’t do it lol you are correct I need someone to take the picture. This is pretty accurate though, the hair isn’t growing long to make the hairline look lower.

On 5/13/2024 at 1:01 PM, GeneralNorwood said:

200 grafts is like 5cm2 with 40grafts/cm2 density. So imagine area of 10cm x 0,5 cm. So you can lower 10 cm of hairline by 0,5 cm

@GeneralNorwoodgoing back to this. I kinda measured my scalp and it looks like the corners I would only adjust them in 1x1 cm area for each side. With the calculations above I’d only need about 40 grafts/cm2 on each corner. Even if I gave some room for error in my measurements and double it, I can use less than 200 grafts for this change. Is there anything wrong the way I’m calculating it? What do you think? Added some pictures for anyones opinions. Also with the same estimates graft count, I think 2000 grafts would give me solid density in the crown as well. 
 

@Melvin- Admin @Berba11 any thoughts on this dudes?

On 5/20/2024 at 2:05 AM, sekiro109 said:

@caveman and agree with others here, the SMP + buzz cut actually looks good. I can't even tell you had SMP in the pictures. Can you go into a bit of detail how the process was? Did you have to completely shave your head to get the SMP done? 

@sekiro109 sorry just seeing this buddy. The SMP required me to trim my head down to a 1 guard. I believe you can also do it with long hair for density but I would recommend definitely not doing it that way. Often times they will use darker pigments and larger needles in that case and then if you ever trim your hair down it will look odd.

SMP is usually done in 2-3 sessions. The first session is the longest. Usually several hours (4-5) and they lightly cover the entire scalp. 2 weeks later I had a second session. By this time the pigment from the first is basically faded. The second session really adds the color and density. I technically had a 3rd session included in my price to do minor tweaks and touch ups so it could look  even better but I never went as it was too far from me and I had plans to do a hair transplant. 
 

I rocked my SMP with a 0.5 guard all over the head and it looked 🔥. I’m indoor setting or less harsh lighting it’s practically undetectable. If you’re under a large light or outdoors in bright sunlight, the SMP does get washed out. I think it’s honestly a solid option for those that can’t get a hair transplant. I will say though, because I have hair all over my head, the 3D look is really good. If someone is slick bald with SMP it may not look as good. 
 

let me know if you have any other questions

side note - what you are seeing in my pictures is healed SMP. Lot of posts online from SMP artists are fresh results that look much darker than they will ultimately be. 

Hey dude if anyone can do it, it’s one of those docs. If not try SMP it looks decent, and frames the face well. And low maintenance!

32 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

You’ve come a long way. 

Great results. I can understand why you would want to lessen the temporal points. I guess it depends on whether it bothers you enough.

Appreciate that @Melvin- Admin. We are just getting started 😉.
 

And you’re right. I guess if it bothers me enough I’ll decide to change it a bit. I feel like the 350ish grafts @Bandit90 used went a long way for his result. I may go for something like that if possible.

6 hours ago, SLA said:

I have to say that I had the priviledge of meeting @cavemanin person and his results looked great and hairline looked perfect.

Even the density when grown out looked solid. I could see why he might want more, but overall he looked fantastic.

Ayyyy my favorite person. @SLA as always appreciate you buddy. I’ll actually post a fully grown out  video if I can find it and if this site allows videos haha. You are definitely right that it is possible to make my current hair look decently. Especially with toppik in, you can’t even tell I’ve had hair loss at all. Without the toppik it varies day to day. Somedays it looks okay and other days I couldn’t stand it 😂. I think the reason I felt like that was cause of lack of density in certain areas but if I can get the density up in the second sitting, I’ll be able to have a nice thick head of hair 🤞🏽 

Hey @Stewie. Thanks for the feedback brother. I saw your journey and I’ll definitely take your suggestion into account. Seems everyone is on the same page about current hairline and temple points. With that said, I’m thinking I’ll most likely keep things the same. Only if I can make a small physical change that results in a large aesthetic improvement, will I go for it.

also I could do what @Bandit90said. Always time to go for round 3 if I want to make that change in the future. 
 

appreciate you dropping by.

18 hours ago, Bandit90 said:

How’s tricks Jay! Your combo of transplanted hair and SMP is looking killer mate – 100% are rocking it. TBF your current design with recession looks both solid and natural, and agree with other posters that hairline lowering should not be the priority. That said, on my last sitting I used ∼350 grafts to tweak my frontotemporal angle, which I think does give a lot of bang for the buck. I 100% agree with others that the density in the mid-scalp and crown should be your focus, then if you want to reduce the frontotemporal angle, you can make an informed decision to do so (maybe even as a 3^rd sitting). It’s a good dilemma you are in mate, because you did the sensible thing by starting conservative. You're doing the right thing and asking the right questions, ultimately it will be your call so just make sure you are armed with the facts to make an informed decision.

@Bandit90 my man! I’ve been good hope all is well with you. Yeah lol basically the whole forum has deterred me from planning anything crazy in the front and rightly so. I’ve kinda dropped the idea for now, however if I could do something similar to what you did in less than 500 grafts, I’ll consider it.

Appreciate the compliment on the SMP look. It definitely looks nice and I can rock it for now but def need some more hair. It was a good plan to buy me like 6 months of time and now I’ve got a good foundation going into round 2.

yes, I definitely made a great decision being conservative and thanks to members of the forum like yourself. I’ve placed myself into a position where I can take several routes. Will keep researching and thinking the plan over 

@Berba11 Do you have a post with your journey? I’ve been trying to look but having a hard time finding it if there is one

@Berba11 thanks for the kind words. I’m glad that it’s looking pretty solid. After further consideration I have definitely dropped the idea of hairline lowering and will do like you have said regarding the recession points (only if I have enough grafts). 
 

when you softened your v shaped points, did you feel a bit more comfortable with combed back hairstyles that show your forehead? 
 

i will say this about my friends and family, overall their impression of the current hairline shape is very positive. No one has mentioned to lower it or anything like that. It’s just on a side profile that I’m getting feedback to soften the corners. My main critic is my dad 😂 and he’s 64 and blessed with minimal baldness. he’s probably like a NW3 right now. He doesn’t care much about aesthetics and was against me getting the transplant in the first place. His argument is if you’re gonna do it anyways atleast round off those corners a bit haha. I think he means well though 

@GeneralNorwood I’m gonna try and measure my scalp and see if I can get a rough estimate of surface area I need to cover. There’s a couple YouTube tutorials about it 

@GeneralNorwood haha ya definitely don’t think it’s wise to use 1000 grafts there. Will still find out if less grafts can be used to adjust corners only. Sorry the picture is not good lol I tried my best but will have to ask someone to take the picture for me when I am able to. 
 

for density, do you believe 40graft/cm^2 is possible throughout the scalp? What density do you have for your hair? It looks quite a bit more dense than mine. 
 

I will look into a consult with muresanu. Skype would be ideal as I cannot travel just for a consultation at this current point. Thanks for the recommendation. 

@general-etwan hey buddy. I saw in some previous posts you were interested in seeing how SMP may look to augment your hair transplant. I know you were talking about donor areas, but I have had SMP done on my scalp and posted a few pictures. Check out my post if you want to get an idea of how it may look! Hope your progress has been great since your 3rd session.

2 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Well, that's not the kind of informations that are gathered by Eugenix, because measuring takes time. 

 

200 grafts is like 5cm2 with 40grafts/cm2 density. So imagine area of 10cm x 0,5 cm. So you can lower 10 cm of hairline by 0,5 cm. 

Can you send a photo of straight face (something like my avatar picture) with hairline visible? Photo made from 2 meters at least (not a selfie). 

 

4000 grafts will definitely help, but still require some sacrifices in the crown for example. 

Consultation with Zarev is expensive, because off-schedule consultations cost 900 euro, but with this price you can get most detailed measurements of your scalp in the world. So for me it was worth it and waiting time wasn't so long, it was like 3 months since i asked about possibility of off-schedule consultation. I am happy that im did it, because now i know where I stand. 

@GeneralNorwood so tbh from the front i like where the hairline sits. I’ve got no issues with it really at all. It looks age appropriate and suits my face okay. I did my best to take a picture from a distance which I attached here (picture taken at 6 ft distance).
 

My concern is more from the side profile. I would like to somehow use very very limited grafts to make the side profile a bit less receded. I attached a picture of what I am talking about. I also attached a couple pictures of my growing hair in direct sunlight. This helps wash out the SMP and gives an idea of areas that need work. 
 

I just don’t think going to zarev is in the stars for me. As much as I’d love to, I can neither wait that long nor pay for the price of a procedure with him. It is, however, great advice.

UPDATE:

I had my video call with dr das today. We discussed several questions I had.

1. In depth planning off donor area and recipient area. Create sections to check donor density and sectioning off transplant zone to assure desired density. She did mention that routinely this not practiced as it depends on a per case situation but they are willing to do it for me since I am concerned. She did also mention something about a certain machine that’s used for this but they don’t have that. Not too sure what that is maybe someone can shed light?

2. Graft count and areas of focus. I explained my goals. I had already spoken to dr arika 2 weeks ago so eugenix had a general idea. The previous plan to lower hairline is not out of the question but I have abandoned it. However, if I wanted to, it would be around 1000 grafts. That being said I am still curious what can be done just to soften the corners and we won’t know until I am seen in person. Focus of procedure would be to add density behind hairline into midscalp, reinforce current hairline and add significant density to crown/lateral humps. The calculations provided to me on a previous post is what dr dad also agreed to. However, the total count on that picture is listed as 2000-2500, but really it is 2500-3000 (the final total was added wrong). I am curious if I can get the desired density from 3000 grafts but I do see it as possible. 
 

3. Current density and goal of density

At this point the eugenix rep stepped in and explained they have the details of my current density, etc. and they will send it to me. I’ve asked in the past and haven’t received it. Hopefully I’m able to see where I stand and this was something eugenix actively recorded during my last surgery. For goal of density, I am not sure. Normally the hairline is like 40 graft/cm^2. How much does it decrease as you move into the midscalp and crown? Ideally, I’d like to maintain as close to 40 as I can going back into the midscalp and will be okay with slightly less density in the crown but not way less where it looks depleted. This is something I need to account for. It would be nice to get an answer from eugenix (estimated) explaining what number of grafts I’d need on each section of my head to achieve a good density. I imagine this is possible as I’ve already been there for my first procedure.

4. Doctor involvement

 In my first procedure I had opted for my surgery with dr arika (super premium package) I believe at the time critical implantation was done by the lead surgeon (dr arika). In the current package planning/design, and slits will be created by the main doctor (dr das) and remaining procedure will be completed by senior technicians. 
 

I believe I have covered everything that was discussed. I may have further talks with the team to confirm the plan that was proposed to me will give me full coverage. 

@GeneralNorwood great thoughts and suggestions. So I spent pretty much all day going through your post again and I do consider what you are telling me to be very productive and legit information.

Alright so you’d be willing to have more recession and wouldn’t mind the larger wider forehead. I will take this into consideration based on your experience. Also the hairstyle you like combed forward would definitely resolve the recession I just don’t know my hair will grow like that. 

one thing is for sure. What I didn’t do is plan on the first sitting (even though I thought I did) I think marking off sections of the head and measuring for the actual size of recipient area and then calculating available donor grafts is important. Also knowing what my target density per section is key. We did not do that at all in my first transplant.  I definitely must do that this time. I also don’t even know my current densities in different areas of scalp and I am curious if it is still possible to achieve the density that I am looking for.

I really like the hairstyle you have in the picture you posted. I’d be happy with something like that. However, I also do want to sport hairstyles where my forehead can be exposed and look good still. Do you believe I could achieve that with just adding density behind the current hairline? My left temporal angle is so receded that when I grew my hair out and did a combover my head looked crooked (this is because as I comb the long hairs from left to right it covers much of the right side of my hairline making it look lower on that side and significantly receded on the other side).

my thoughts with the corners is “ if I can use less than 200 grafts just to round off my corners to make them a bit more subtle, will those 200 grafts be detrimental in the density behind my hairline?” Now I may be mistaken with this low number of grafts so correct me if I am wrong. If the doctor says I need 1000 grafts to soften the corners I will drop the idea for sure. However if I am able to strategically address that concern with minimal grafts I think it may be a good idea. As far as keeping my sides short currently, it is because when I grow my hair out without cutting it, it looks really bad, especially the sides. If the next procedure allows me to homogenize this area with extractions, I would love to grow it out as I also like that look.
 

I would prefer not to use beard grafts unless needed as I also love my beard. Probably more than my potential hair haha. You mention 3500-4000 grafts wouldn’t be enough to get full coverage at my current state. Do you think I will require more grafts than that? I thought with between 2800-3500 I could achieve max desired density. I will have some consultations to determine what my actual plan can be. I may have to fly/ go somewhere to have an in person consultation as you did with zarev ( I don’t think I can wait to go to zarev though). 

3 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Don't do temple points. Don't change anything about hairline and temple points : 

 

 

Your temple points look now natural. If you make them more aggresive with HT, it can bring you trouble in the future.

And besides temple ponts after HT only look good if you grow them longer, so your current hairstyle with sides and temple points cut short won't be available. Check how temple points after HT look if you cut them shorter in this post : Eugenix 3514 grafts (720 on the temples) May 2022 Dr Priyadarshini Das - Page 11 - Hair Transplant Reviews - Hair Restoration Network - Community For and By Hair Loss Patients

 

 

So best idea is to reinforce everything besides current hairline, strenghten red area.

Second question is how many grafts can be implanted in blue area, which in fact, needs a lot more grafts then red area. 

2000 grafts of course is not enough for everything, even if you stick with current hairline and don't lower it. Changing the hairline or temple points would only increase this demand of grafts. 

 

The good news is that after you did SMP, you can wear this buzzcut hairstyle and it looks neat.

You don't have to rush into 2nd procedure, rather take your time and consult with other surgeons, that's my advice. 

 

@GeneralNorwood thanks you for giving me illustrations of what plan I should have moving forward. I greatly appreciate it. I know you keep it real. That being said, I am curious, why are you so against my plan? The corners of my hair transplant are really bothering me so I’m not sure I would be happy keeping the deep recession. I know donor graft count is critical in a case like mine. I reviewed your case too so I’m wondering are you warning me from your personal experience? The hairline and temporal angles that you completed with eugenix are probably like 80% more aggressive than where I am at right now. I believe adding a couple hundred grafts to round out my corners would make me happier and will look nicer. 
 

I met dr sethi in Philly a few months ago and at the time I believe he said he could get an additional 3500-4000 scalp grafts from my donor. Beard grafts would be additional. I suspect perhaps 500-700 could reinforce my midscalp, and another 1800 or so could help cover my entire crown. 
 

after reviewing your personal experience, I understand why you are pushing me towards keeping the current hairline and working behind it. That being said, I believe that if you had a much more conservative hairline with receding corners, you may not have been as pleased with your outcome either. Your hairline and FTA are perfect. Like too perfect 😂 so I wouldn’t bring things down as much as you but am looking to subtly modify what I already have without wasting many grafts on the hairline. 
 

I am viewing lots of patients like Melvin, yourself, Armen, bandit, etc who are all adjusting the hairline with minor changes that result in a way more pleasing aesthetic. You are concerned for me about adding density throughout the midscalp and reinforcing the current hairline but do you think it would be really that dangerous to fix the corners if it’s something that would make me happier with myself? 
 

im not trying to turn your points away because I definitely understand and agree with them. That was why I agreed to this conservative hairline design in the first place. Rather I’m trying to get your feedback for a plan that would involve fixing the corners (I just want to round them off a little bit, they look so sharp and pointy right now and don’t match my facial features) as they are really bothering me even though I know you are against it. If your corners were receded the way mine are I really do think that you might not be as happy with your overall result at the end of the day. 
Do you see any plan in which I can round the corners off minimally while still focusing on adding density throughout the midscalp and crown?