GoliGoliGoli

7 minutes ago, TheGreatPretender said:

For you maybe. But it doesn't really take away the fact that evidence directly marking the drug as the causing agent is scarce and not scientifically acknowledged by the overwealming majority of doctors. Regardless of the reason why you think this happens that remains the only fact and you can do with it as you will. 

And I say this once again many times when we get health issues we aren't really predicting these very things to happen to us and they still do. If you are taking a pill while they happen its easier to blame on it then on anything else.

Some fearmongers from propeciahelp even say that something as light as Saw Palmetto gave them Post Finasteride Symdrome. Anyone can say watheaver they want on the internet, that doesn't still make it true. There are people literally claiming to have PFS after taking a single pill of Finasteride which sounds even more ridiculous.

Very recently "the evidence" showed that Oxycontin only caused addiction in less than 1% of patients who used it. Very recently "the evidence" showed that 2 doses of the COVID vaccine provided long term immunity. Very recently "the evidence" showed us that Vioxx didn't cause cardiac issues.  

Look ... If someone comes to me and says "I had no issues or signs of any issues, but then got on Fin and got its well known sides, and these sides persisted even after I stopped taking it", it seems pretty reasonable to suspect the causative agent is the drug they were on, and not "poor diet, schedule, lack of sleep".... 

Now, is it possible that the causative agent is not the drug and something else? Sure it's possible, in the same way that anything is possible. But doesn't seem likely. 

But you do agree that people do get symptoms from Fin right? You just think it's fake news that the symptoms persist after stopping the drug? Is that an accurate description of your opinion? Asking genuinely.

To me, it seems it would be a very large coincidence that someone would be living a normal life side effect free, get on fin, get sides, stop fin, and then have fins well known side effects continue to persist due to "other health issues" as you said. The timing would be very coincidental ...... These "other health issues" just by chance happen to appear right around the time someone started taking a pharmacological agent that is designed to lower ones androgens? 

This is why first principal analysis is often superior to relying purely on "muh peer reviewed studies". It's true that correlation doesn't equal causation. But what most people don't understand when they use that quote is that a strong enough correlation is often a pretty good signal that there is some causative element at play.

1 hour ago, TheGreatPretender said:

In my opinion the existence of PFS isn't scientifically proven and as such not enough evidence supports it's existence according to the overwhelming majority of doctors, as such I don't believe it exists, simple as that. People who experience side effects years after getting off the drug are likely to have other health issues that may have led to them blaming on Fin or may have fallen into nocebo. It's hard to categorize all of them into one spectrum but I am 100% skeptical regarding permanent side effects on Finasteride.

So if someone were to tell you "Ya I was 25 years old, got on fin Fin, used it fine for a few years with no issues, then slowly started to develop side effects, and when I quit Fin the side effects continued" you would not believe them and instead think it is other health issues that are causing the side effects they are reporting? 

6 hours ago, TheGreatPretender said:

What is criminal is people that are way stupid such as yourself to understand the simple fact that they have zero arguments to prove something which is fictitious and a conspiracy theory that is ultimately non existent based off science. You are at the pinnacle of illiteracy to place yourself in such a high pedestal to decide wether the data is good or not. Why in the hell didn't we heard about post Finasteride syndrom in the 90s? Care to explain?

What I find it hilarious is that you contradicted yourself once again by agreeing with me regarding clinical evidence on PFS but then you quickly rushed and once again went for the "oh but wait! There's thousands of people claiming that it happened to them!"

Anyone can go and say anything they want on the internet. I can also claim the earth is flat, in fact millions of people still do and that wouldn't make it true so that statement is also invalid and illiterate. 

Mental illness is a possibility and as the study pointed circunstancial evidence exists for alleged PFS sufferers. And once again I tell you that correlation doesn't always equal causation and factors such as other conditions have to be considered rather then blaming it all on the drug which doesn't necessarily have to be mental as it can be anything. It's way too easy to blame everything on the pill when in reality you could have the said condition without even taking it on the first place.

But sure, let's go with doctors are r**, PFS exists and you should be the PHD doctor with years of research into the field instead since you're the most literate person on the planet. 

Because of people like you anyone coming to this thread wanting to start medication will feel paralysed and afraid to even give himself the chance of saving their hair and run the risk of having a lifetime full of isolation and depression. 

Is your opinion that PFS doesn't exist at all?

What do you say to the people on this forum who when you go back and read their early posts are super supportive of Fin, then later get off it due to sides, and then say those sides are lingering for years and they still don't feel normal? Are these people lying? Or just suffering from other issues and blaming it on Fin? 

Your hair loss pattern is very similar to mine. I think it's reasonable to expect you will end up somewhere between norwood 4  and norwood 6. How old are you? 

You should at the very least jump on topical minoxidil. This is the bare minimum of medication you should be on before considering a HT. As for Dr's, I would look at Dr Nader since he is very close to Texas and has great results for a reasonable price point. 

On 11/5/2023 at 12:43 PM, duchaine said:

very similar to what happened to me

 

maybe this research can be useful 

https://www.actasdermo.org/es-translated-article-morning-periorbital-edema-articulo-S0001731023002417

I immediately thought of didu911's picture when you posted yours.... 

Haven't watched the full video so maybe he gets into this, but did he confirm that the way he's able to achieve such high graft counts just my homogenously depleting the donor region? I guess that's the only way possible, but man the donors look great afterwards..

I use minox almost every day and always shampoo to wash it out. Mainly because I have cats and it's very toxic to them (and dogs too). I don't think shampooing every day causes any damage to the hair follicle itself, at worst it dries out the hair a bit but nothing permanent. 

11 hours ago, 12345 said:

from reading past users experiences, and my own experience with fin, i think only a small percentage of men are truly side effect free on this drug. Of note when I was on fin for a year, apart from a few hours of ball ache the 3rd day of taking it, I never felt any side effects until I began having sex almost a year later when I realized that I had ED during the event, loss of semen volume, decrease force of ejaculation, and decreased orgasm. So I have a strong feeling that some men may think they are sexual side effect free, but they are not engaging in sexual intercourse on a regular basis to discover these side effects. 

I also think that these anti-dht drugs affect us differently as we age, as in my case, I think i am more sensitive to them as I have gotten older. 

the only good thing of notes is with fin, if you do have sides, the symptom reversal is weeks, not months like dut.

3 hours ago, Belve said:

That’s true. many people don’t even have sexual intercourse to see if they have side effects or not. If they try later to have sex they will see very decreased orgasms, watery sperm, and soft erections. And ’many people even get side effects with low dose of finasteride…

I agree with the statement that "only a small percentage of men are truly side effect free on this drug", but wouldn't the side effects be noticeable during masturbation even if you're not having sex? 

1 minute ago, Marklius said:

Hello GoliGoliGoli, what are you thougts and suggestions about my case? I would appericate to hear it

Without seeing more pictures of you (At the very least ones that include your eyebrows) it's hard to say whether the hairline is too low or too straight. From the pictures you did post, I do think it's a bit too low and too straight, but I think any repair options might leave you worse off (Financially, aesthetically, time spent) than just keeping it how it is. 

15 minutes ago, Proportions said:

There's no such thing as a hairline too low, there's only a lack of donor hair for low hairlines. Everyone would do a low hairline if donor was infinite. 

I see adding singles in front as an absolute win. Especially if some clinics suggested doing so as well.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about 

10 hours ago, BurnieBurns said:

The real question comes back to the notion of the recipient scalp increasing the DHT sensitivity of the transplanted follicles.

General age thinning is less of an enigma

It would be interesting to hear from Surgeons who have patients not on finasteride have noticed over the years

ManutD above was on fin and it looks like a lot of his transplanted hair fell out. So fin might give you some protection but apparently it doesn't work for everyone. 

You could consider getting your hands on some viagra or cialis. Not as a long term solution, but because they will promote and sustain blood flow in the area which could have some benefit.

Wishing you a speedy recovery. I understand why you're worried, but I don't think it will be long before you return to baseline. 

If you are NW 1.5 you have no business getting a HT. Give it another 5 years and reconsider. 

15 minutes ago, Youth_Again said:

yep, does not make sense. DHT helps body hair, but kills scalp hair, using a DHT blocker will increase your hair count on your scalp but you can see a significant change in your body hair (Decrease).

Finasteride literally killed all my chest and belly hair

 

I remember actually, you DM'd me a picture and the difference was  night and day in terms of your chest hair. Did you get any other sides or just the stark decrease in body hair? 

We really don't know the exact mechanism by which DHT causes hair loss, but my understanding is that the "consensus opinion" is that the DHT binds to the hair follicle and somehow that causes a restriction in blood flow. What's odd about this is that DHT binding to the hair follicle PROMOTES hair growth in literally every other hair follicle on the body..... There is a lot we don't know about hair loss and a lot of contradictions in certain models, so it's definitely not a dumb question. 

So for some guys DHT could be the main culprit of hair loss, but for other guys it's theoretically possible that they might have vascular miniaturization from other causes that contribute more to their hair loss than DHT binding. 

3 hours ago, Cory said:

Appreciate all your insights.

I get that people advise against taking a loan. Though I can't be the only one debating on being either miserable with my hair, or pinching pennies for 10 years with a happy head of hair.

I haven't seen your pictures, but you're kind of assuming that you're a good candidate and that you're going to be happy with your "head of hair" after another HT. From your post it sounds like you had 1 bad HT already, so I don't know I kind of don't think it's as simple as step 1. take loan step 2. get ht. step 3. be happy. It's just a big risk to be going into debt for. And eventual further loss will probably mean another one is needed, so what do you do then, take out another loan? 

Comparing it to a nice new car is not fair imo. A car (even though it's a deprecating asset) can be sold whenever needed for its current worth. A hair transplant can't be transferred to someone else in exchange for cash if you need the money in a pinch. 

From what I can tell, lots of people on this forum have taken out loans in order to get HT's. 

Personally, I think this is totally insane, but it does seem that a lot of guys do it. 

This is what I do, except like a 2.5 above the ears whereas that guy has like a zero I think. 
 

The right haircut can go a long ways to masking a receding hairline so kudos to you. A lot of guys rush into getting hairline work as nw2 or nw3 when really they should learn to style it and live with it and delay the HT until years later so they don’t have to chase it as they lose more 

5 hours ago, alexmillne said:

Here's an expert who often posts YouTube videos on this subject. He says that Minoxidil can lose its strength over time. I'd like to find more information and studies about this."

You are seriously over thinking this. If you want to preserve your hair your best bet is to jump on Min NOW. There is no reason for waiting whatsoever and waiting will leave you worse off. Don't try to over-analyze things based on your misunderstanding on one Youtuber. "Potency fading" just means you aren't going to get the same re-growth forever (this is obvious) This is different than minoxidil "no longer working". 
 

Is this still about the Matt Dominance video? Maybe message him to get clarification. 

I mean.... they can extract as many grafts from your chest as you have grafts on your chest. What are you even asking? 

JJ gave you the best answer, chest hair is really a worst case scenario option 

24 minutes ago, BackFromTheBrink said:

Testosterone levels fall as you age, so DHT levels will too. Whether that impacts hair loss will depend on the reduction and individual sensitivity to it. As with medication, a reduction will probably slow for some and stop it for others.

I understand the thinking behind it and I'm still not convinced. Anecdotal evidence shows that many guys lose rapidly well past 35 or any other arbitrary age. People will come up with all sorts of theories for why their hair loss will stabilize. Lots of guys also continue to lose ON finasteride so I don't think some 1% drop in your T levels per year is going to have a big effect on your hair loss. 

The mechanism by which DHT causes hair loss is very poorly understood. The main idea is that by binding to the follicle restricts blood flow/nutrient flow to the follicle. But blood flow gets worse with age regardless, so any supposed benefit you might get from your 1% per year drop in testosterone could easily be counteracted by that.