general-etwan

Incredible

I find these numbers to be so subjective; there is no objective fact to them. How many grafts someone has “left” is just a matter of opinion, really, depending on the goal and how much thinning someone is willing to accept. Just keep an eye on the situation for now and continue to evaluate options.

This is terrible and very poor operation by this clinic.

We have no info on why is may have happened. The work itself looks very good so it seems to be low odds that the failure to yield is a direct result of anything Gur did or didn't do. Would like to know more theories but I doubt OP knows either.

Looks good so far, though I see the hairline as being too unlevel. Wonder why she thought that was good enough.

You had a low dipping region beforehand, and they took many grafts from the area during the HT. This is simply the result. Yes, it is significantly thinned and will remain so now.

Always depends on boundary of hair loss location, size of scalp, etc. You have pretty high up boundaries and a seemingly good donor so it's absolutely possible to get a good result. Not 75% of original natural density, but if you manage expectations, very possible with a handful of doctors to get a good outcome.

As for the finasteride, if taking 1 mg daily for a period of many months, and then stopping, the finasteride will remain at the level of the hair follicle for 1-2 months because of buildup, so technically a 2 month break can be done without losing any hair status at all. For the whole pregnancy thing, you'd need to stop more than 2 months in advance and stay off for more than 2 months, to ensure all finasteride is out of the system for sure. If wanting to do that. OP, it indeed appears like a poor yield to me. Not sure why. I don't think anyone ever really knows why this happens in some cases. Any update since?

Was intrigued to hear about a FUE Capilar experience; disappointed to read your description of the professionalism and Turan leaving before crown work was done. That crown work to me looks very pointless. It's almost nothing. You'd need a lot more grafts there for it to have any significant improvement in appearance.

How would you compare Dr. Gur to the senior doctors at Eugenix (Dr. Das and Dr. Somesh)? Appreciate your apparent knowledge on many doctors. For high Norwoods, what grade/tier would you give the following, just based on quality and not price: Dr. Das/Dr. Somesh at Eugenix (not Sethi or Bansal) Dr. Gur Dr. Turan Smile Hair Clinic (Dr. Erdogan) Out of A, B, C, D, or F. Thanks

Another fantastic result! Thanks for sharing this info, as I also happen to be waiting for a video consultation from Pittella. It's been almost 3 weeks now since the initial written consultation and they told me I'm on priority list for video, but I still sense it will be a bit. And then the 7-10 month schedule timeline is a bit more than I was hoping for, but totally understandable.

I agree not 5500; though I do think 3000 might be feasible. Plus another few hundred from sidelocks and maybe another 500 from beard if I desperately need it. Been super busy so will get to adding pics and doing more analysis soon, but based on the recovery of the middle back of my donor, it has been superb and still appears and feels very thick. So my hope is to able to get another 3,000 from that central area. I plan to use SMP in the future to create added illusion of density if the donor area ends up looking too depleted for my liking.

Respectfully, not possible. That was a special cut from a super pro barber...the guy is a magician; I've been to some good barbers in my life and he simply blows all of them out of the water. He spent at least 30 minutes on it, doing all kinds of tricks with special tools to take away the appearance of transplanted hair/boundaries/gaps. There is no chance I can do that myself, let alone every day as it would be required to keep the horseshoe pattern away. I do not have anywhere near the toolkit, skill, or personal ability. I'll be posting some new pics and an update later today.

Yeah I wouldn’t be super demanding about exactly how many more grafts can be taken from donor. I just want to get a general idea of how Pittella would approach my situation. I expect he would want to add density all across the top, and fully connect the lateral ridges and close as many of the gaps as possible. Leave the circular crown area the lowest density of any area by a little bit. Just want him to give his explanation. If I would decide to go to him, I would do so knowing that his plans are dependent on his evaluation of my donor area once I get there.

Right, I get from the original starting point maybe 11-12,000 total grafts would have been a goal. But I sent him these most recent pics so it just seems very high to me to quote me another 5500 at this point. I was thinking getting it to 10,000/11,000 total grafts of redistribution effort and closing all the gaps would be sufficient, but perhaps his goal would be to create as homogenous density as possible across the whole head and he thinks 5500 is the number to get there? Will def consult by video. Beard hair is def an option, but as said, it seems based on number of hair strands that he's saying 5500 scalp. I wouldn't want too much more taken from my beard, and scalp donor is well on its way to being used up, so not sure. Maybe another 700 from beard I'd be okay with, putting me at 2,000 total beard taken overall. Also not to forget that my sideburn areas are very thick and can and should be used as donor area, because now they are thicker than anything else around them and it doesn't look ideal. Will do video consult and then share any developments here.

I shared what Pittella sent me back on my thread. Math doesn’t make complete sense though so I’ll be doing a video consult with him just to get an idea of what he would do with me if I were to go to him.

Yeah, definitely willing to give it more time and starting to see some more lower crown growth the past 2 weeks. I contacted Pittella though for a consultation and after sending him these most recent pics and all my info, including that I already had 2 transplants and for the graft totals of each, he sent back the following: HT FUE in 1 giga-session 5,500 grafts (11,600-13,600 strands of hair) Priority to front area, cover midscalp and gradient to the crown area I'm going to do the paid video consultation option with him to get clarification on this, because I'm not sure if this makes total sense. My already completed 8,300 grafts plus another 5,500 is 13,800 total grafts and I don't think another 5,500 can be taken from my donor so I'm not sure where's he's getting these numbers from. I expected something like 2,000-3,000 more grafts to add more density across the entire head. Will have to do video consultation to follow up on this.

@GeneralNorwood There are a lot of comments here that I've tried to read through, and have gotten through some of them. I have to say I agree with your assessment of your situation very much, and understand your position on the planning by the clinic now. Unfortunately my situation was addressed in a similar way that doesn't seem to be entirely proper planning. In my case, I think the physical quality of my 2 HTs there has been very good...the work was performed very well and the growth has been very strong overall. I agree with you now that planning seems to be the issue. In my case, as we discussed, my lateral hump areas should have been addressed more in a 1st procedure, and the crown left for a future operation if I wanted it. I do not regret having my temples done at all because it has made a big difference so far from the front, and now I can use pictures of myself without a hat on and be mostly satisfied with my look. I'm thankful for that. But they do definitely have two different techs do one temple each. My right temple is stronger than my left; no person in public would really notice, but I know how to tell the difference. But the biggest problem is this disconnect of hair that has been left on top, with retreating lateral humps and lower crown. In my most recent, 2nd procedure, which addressed this area, even Dr. Sethi would not commit to fully closing that gap at any place, as he said it could always recede more. But I don't know if that's a great reason for not closing the gap completely at the time. Sure, it could depend on a person's goals, but I think for advanced Norwoods, one of the biggest goals should be not leaving any drastic gaps or disconnections on the head other than where it would be completely natural (the circular crown area). I wish you the best in your future efforts to keep tackling this. For me, I am not yet pleased with how slow my lateral humps and lower crown have come in since my 2nd procedure. I know they will come in stronger over the next few months, but even with that, I can tell that I don't think I'll be ultimately satisfied with the overall distribution or the line of disconnect at the lower crown that I now have. I have contacted Dr. Pittella and am awaiting his consultation on my situation. I am very interested in him, but unless he would be able to offer me something lower-priced than his typical, I won't be able to afford it at this time.

5.5 months after 2nd: Status vs. donor still available

Well, I want to start planning for a 3rd procedure right now and ideally have it by early spring. I am a believer that there is no need to wait 12 full months in the case of known multiple procedures necessary to achieve goals. In my case, I can see that even once the lower crown and lateral humps come in stronger over the next few months, my goals are to still have more redistribution of follicles and I want to get planning that now. My donor has recovered well once again, so I want to really be aggressive and do decent size redistribution effort. I think at least another 2,000 grafts can be harvested from the rear donor, and I want it done all the way up to the edges of the existing pattern so that the "ring" is disappeared as much as possible. I would consider consulting Pittella but only if he could match or beat Eugenix in $. Unfortunately I've had to invest in important other things as well lately, and I don't know how I'm going to fully fund a 3rd procedure here. I'm going to need some help.

Not yet. Haven’t even started inquiring about next procedure. But soon.

Definitely interested in seeing if it's possible for the folks at Eugenix to use this if I have my 3rd procedure there in the coming months. Considering that there don't seem to be any negative side effects at all, I would more than willing be happy to sign a formal waiver saying "I fully understand that use of verteporfin after extraction is no guarantee of benefit, and any damage done to the results are the full responsibility and understanding of the patient." Because I fully understand that a lot of clinics and doctors simply aren't going to feel comfortable using something they don't have a lot of tangible experience or trust with; at least not right away.

Unfortunately I'm not seeing that things are coming in as well from the 2nd HT as they did in the 1st. Before any HTs vs. almost 6 months after 2nd HT: Temple growth is strong but crown area isn't. Hoping it's just a little slow. I'm thinking I'll need a 3rd HT roughly the size of the 2nd (around 3,000 grafts) of redistribution effort. This is someone I know who has thin/low density hair all over, but does not show a high contrast horseshoe pattern of hair loss. This looks much superior to any ring pattern, and when he grows his hair out longer you can barely even tell he's diffuse thinned: Anytime there's a sudden and drastic change in density along a boundary, it draws everyone's attention. My goal will be to lessen that as much as possible.

How much would I need if I wanted to try it myself at home with microneedling? This may be cheap compared to the name brand but this is still very expensive stuff.

I've been on finasteride since early 2021 but it's hard to say whether it does anything positive for me. The retrograde alopecia has certainly not gotten any better; I've had it since teens but it's remained pretty constant. I think it may look a little worse because of the donor area extractions through that area, too...even though they limited them in that area, they still took some. It would be 4 years until I could have a procedure with Zarev and I can't afford it. That simple. I've had to spend money on other things in life. Student loans sacked me down too. I'm not chasing perfection, I'm chasing as maximized uniform distribution as possible for an overall acceptable look at all haircut lengths. I feel much closer now, and I think one more session of some redistribution and added density should push things into good territory.