Vann

2 hours ago, washingtondc said:

Five months. Not very optimistic, despite the fact that this is my second procedure...

There was a small bit of improvement for months 4-5. For my first procedure, there wasn't really any significant change after the 6 month mark, so I think it's likely I really only have about a month of anything much changing left. The grafts that are short stubs are few and far between now, most of the grafts that were added seem to have a decent bit of length. There just aren't very many of them. The front improved minorly, but is still this transparent, and this is in just about ideal lighting:

The left side didn't change much. Still the better of the two sides, but not at a density that looks normal a lot of the time:

Right side still looks kind of ruler-esque:

The main issue at this point is that I still can't put the hair into *any* sort of arrangement that looks natural. No matter how I move it/which direction it goes/what I try to hide, there's always something relatively glaring that jumps out as looking strange. The best I can do is to try to cover the right side, but then the front looks quite weird, like this:

There's just not enough hair and I really think, somehow, once again, not enough grafts were added. I don't understand how 500 was viewed as something that would be sufficient. This is the current amount of empty space in the recipient zone:

This is how things look when lighting comes from overhead, which is most of the world:

People will say "this is only 5 months" but I literally just did this once already, and not much changed after 6 months. Pretty demoralized and would need a miracle at this point. I don't know what to do.

It’s hard to say because your hair is long so it makes it look worse. But I definitely see what you mean and when you say the scalp is visible and you wanted to address this originally. 
 

I am not sure if you would want a temporary solution until your hair grows in but I saw Melvin post the sea salt spray thing in his latest update. Perhaps That may help you in the interim until your hair reaches more density in time (assuming all things are normal in growth)?

I do see what you mean by the amount of grafts. If it was solely just your hairline in the middle 500 would seem reasonable but the surface area definitely needed some more, especially, given that it was a second procedure touch up. I think your hair characteristics don’t help and should have been accounted for that prior to this. 

For now all I can say is to just stay strong, keep your head up and let time do its thing. Even if you address your concerns with your surgeon it would t change anything in this moment because you would want to maximize your outcome by waiting to see the potential of those added grafts. I think your surgeon may have been lazy in the touch up to work on other patients they had scheduled or perhaps they really believe 500 is the amount to get you there. 
 

but for now I think it’s best to distract yourself. Perhaps just hit up board room or other places in the metro area and get your mind off it. Stay strong man and thanks for the update.

It’s really coming to frame. I think you definitely got an amazing result for what you used. Perhaps when the hair thickness kicks in more the density will fill in more.

17 hours ago, MisterBreakfast said:

Just looking to do a comparison, and I'm having trouble finding reference people with light skin and dark hair.  I've been worried that I might be seeing some thinning in my donor along the sides, and might be a bad candidate. On the otherhand it might just be fine for high skin to hair contrast. I feel like pictures and lighting are very hard to judge.

I haven't had a transplant yet, for reference, and I'm about 37yrs.  Looking to get an FUT in 5-6 months, and I've been on Dut and Minox for about 8-9 months so far.  I did notice donor shedding about 3 months ago, so that may also be a factor.

I know some thinning on the sides is normal as we age, but I was wondering if anyone had a donor area with a skin color and hair color similar to mine that I could compare to.

(This is my hair at about a number 2 clipper guard indoors).

 

3 Guard outdoors:

 

3-4 guard indoors:

 

 

Not the same skin color but we have similar donors. My hair type is different so it curls and looks worse when it’s short, but when my hair grows out it definitely shapes up. 
 

being on dut will definitely thicken up your hair. Especially after 2 years. You’re probably experiencing a bad shed it comes and goes. But probably around month 10-15 you really notice a difference. 

What are you current thoughts? I think for 1809 it looks realistic and natural. The only thing I have thoughts on are you frontal part of the hairline where you originally drew the circular design. 
 

it’s a bit red and in my opinion thought you would’ve had the most impact to it being more dense. I am not saying it’s bad but I figured they would’ve added more density to it. 

It could be that the grafts didn’t survive for a number of reasons. It could be management of grafts by the surgeon, pressure of blood supply, or perhaps scarring in your skin that causes it?

Thanks for sharing your story. I am sorry you had this experience and I am sorry to say that whoever did this to you practiced extremely poor ethics and borderline malpractice. Do you have the name of the surgeon/clinic on hand? Also, you said they accidentally charged you 15k? How is this possible, if you have financial records you would be able to see this and dispute the charge would you not?

Thing is, what is done is already done, the next steps would be to get a repair case and see what types of things you can salvage and if you already are not on medication I advice to start that immediately and see your doctor to get a prescription and run some lab tests.

Best of luck to you and dont fret too much going forward. If you have any questions feel free to ask the community. Stay strong and I am looking forward to your journey.

Any updates? @Raskolnikov

Any updates @lowkey

Any updates @hairtxp

On 12/11/2022 at 11:15 AM, Drew-83 said:

Thanks guys, I don't know at the moment if I will have a second crown surgery, first I will evaluate the result of this surgery.

In this regard, I share the total report of the implanted grafts_

wow thats a lot of multiple grafts. I am also surprised you used beard grafts for areas outside of your crown. Was there any planning to use your beard?

Also do you have any immediate post op photos of your extractions? (other than the implanted areas)

1 minute ago, civic said:

Massive transformation, this is yet another example that patience is a must and that ht does in fact need full year in many patients to show full potential. I really think we need to retire the notion that “by 6 months you get the final result”. We all grow at different rate, i myself had early growth in first 4 months then slowed down, but i am aware this is a journey & prepared to wait full year, and so should everyone else😎. Captaincalico also had early growth til month 4 then he said it slowed a bit but then got excellent result.

I needed to hear this. I know how the process works. But its always difficult when people understand the process but think differently because "they are" involved.

When other subjective opinions hit its hard to swallow but much needed. I agree with what civic says. Take your time, distract yourself with life and move forward. Regardless of the outcome you will need time to see the final result whether its successful or not you cannot change whats done.

It really depends, if youre doing FUT or FUE. I think you could be more aggressive with FUT and get something around 2700-3000 and reconstruct your temples and rebuild your hairline and maybe add a little more behind it.

It also would require you to be on medication because you would be doing yourself a disservice by going through shockloss and never recovering those hairs back and further losing hair.

If you do FUE I think you should be more on the conservative side and aim between 2200-2500 without the temple points.

Also you would really need to see what type of donor your have. For example... I have a ton of double hairs and sometimes people may have way more triple hairs. The difference between the two is 1 hair. But if you compare it lets say 3000 grafts you have added, potentially up to, 3,000 extra hairs. 

Also, I cant tell if its the lighting but your crown looks like it is blending in with the light which may be thin hair, a bad angle, or perhaps your hair color. But I definitely think you should aim for the conservative approach and take it step by step. One operation usually isnt always the perfect solution.

any updates?

How you feeling about it thusfar? Youre about a month ahead and I think this looks nice for where you are standing. However, I keep telling myself it going to get better at month 6-7-...12 so I wonder what your perspective is.

1 minute ago, Yolando said:

Just to put in perspective from where I was starting back them. My hair is wet so it looks worst but still what a transformation!!!

Holy ****…

night and day difference. Only month 11 with some hopes that you can have more improvements even beyond (probably up to 18+) nonetheless only 2k grafts has taken you a long way while I have seen others with similar hair types use that solely for the hairline/slightly further back.

any future touch ups for added density? 

A little less than 5.5 months. I think I am experiencing shockloss at its greatest. Hopefully it is temporary and not permanent. Stay tuned for 12 months to confirm that. 
 

nonetheless here is my update, for those following please let me know your opinions.

I thought it was a little aggressive in the design, but honestly, with the way your hair is growing in (stubble) and your hair texture I think this looks very nice.

I think you probably could have used more in your midscalp to reinforce the area but I think your main concern for the front and crown was a good choice.

Looking forward to future updates and next steps.

32 minutes ago, HelpfulFriend said:

Hello friends, almost three weeks out, and nothing major to report with the grafts. 

The scabs are gone, and the grafts are all yet to shed (mostly), I assume this will happen soon 

One thing I've sort of come to the realisation of, is that the middle part of my hair looks like it's receding/miniaturising.

My hair has been getting thinner over the past year, after 6 years of stabilisation on Finasteride and monoxidil, and I have no idea why it seemingly all of the sudden started to shift. I didn't think the middle ground needed work, but now that it's not hidden by the rest of my long hair, it's not looking great. 

I'd rather not hop on dutasteride, but I don't know what else to do (not that there is anything wrong with DUT, but I'd prefer to stay on what I've been tolerating for a long time).

Dr K didn't mention that this area was a concern, so perhaps I am just over analysing hair I never really looked at before. But it feels and looks like a shift in hair calibre that I've been worried about for a while.

I've added some pics of the grafts and the discussed middle part that I'm concerned with.

I mean your hair did go through surgery so the surrounding tissue was pumped with fluids whether anesthetic or loss of blood, etc. 

your hair will go through some form of ‘shock’ and take some time to heal. Good news from that is that when your skin is healing it can sometimes flourish the area so some hairs may come back that were dormant. Not always the case but it’s nice to temporarily see it all back.

I think you should give it a little more time because the shock is usually temporary and will come back in moderation. 

7 minutes ago, JoDimaggio22 said:

I hope so. I don’t like using topicals as much due to the irritation they give me but I’ve see pyrilumatide? As something that seems promising soon. Either way my worry is finasteride loses its strength over time and I have to up the dose 10 years from now or go another route

I don’t know if finasteride loses its potency. I’ve seen research show it improves with time and slows down due to age. This could Be a number of things like less testosterone being produced in the body or a number of other factors. It’s honestly difficult to say exactly.

if you feel like you are losing ground look into dutasteride 0.5 mg it blocks 2 inhibitors. 
 

but increasing the dose does not correlate with making it more effective. A lot of people here believe 0.25-0.5mg fin work wonders for them on a 3-7 day basis. Some people respond well to 1-1.25 mg and believe that’s what works best for them.

I personally think if you respond well to fin then you should add dut so you maximize as much dht blockage as possible but of course to whatever you ‘tolerate’

i also agree I don’t like topicals much either my skin gets irritated and dry from them too.

2 minutes ago, JoDimaggio22 said:

Very true vann. I take finasteride but I’ve heard it doesn’t work as well on your frontal third compared to crown. As long as I can keep my crown I will be happy. I was just curious if lifelong fin mixed with aging could cause minimal hair loss throughout my life or genetically will I end up 3-4 norwoods higher regardless. 

That’s the magic question. You could completely stop it in its tracks if you’re a lucky responder (someone whose follicles are strong against dht but has a higher level of it) or someone who is extremely sensitive at any level of dht regardless of how much. 
 

fin could improve for you over time as you take it. But you may still lose ground.
 

It’s really annoying that we can’t do anything further to improve our situation more than what we have at this moment. But there are a lot of researchers funded/backed by billionaires looking to improve the quality of life in a person. So adjunct to that some form of accident may find a solution for us progressively balding soldiers. 

5 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Yes, the temples are top notch, Dr Das nailed it.

I am back on minoxidil since 3 months. I am using it mostly at weaker areas, but sometimes maybe some drop falls into transplanted hair. Anyways minoxidil goes into blood system so it should affect all hair in some level. I am using it on beard also. 

I only wish that i was better informed by Eugenix that i will need second procedure. I was so happy about 1 year regrowth on finasteride and minoxidil that i was delusional about real state of my baldness and thought that it will be 1 and done procedure. Now looking at preoperation photos with this aggresive design, i am laughing that i was so blind 🤣

 

 

My needs and wants is that i want to finish what i have started 😂

What dose of oral minox and is it better then topical minox + dermapen? 

The thing i am considering is adding some extra medicine that will cursh even more DHT in the scalp. Maybe pyrilutamide. 

Theres a few different dosages of oral minox which I am not too familiar with. To my understanding majority of people start off with 2.5mg and sometimes go higher but face unwanted side effects as they go higher. Its best to ask your doctor tbh.

Honestly the only time I think someone can say what norwood your guaranteed to be is if its NW7. If youre 20-25 and already have lots of hair loss it would be best to assume they will have very little to work with. Its extremely difficult to judge how people will proceed. 

Not all people lose their hair at the same pace. It could be extremely aggressive in your early/late twenties and slow down when you hit your mid thirties then pick up. DHT works differently as we age and our hair is still sensitive to a certain threshold. 

I think if you take medications you can stabilize and perhaps predict how you will hold as you age. But you will still lose ground over time, its unfortunately a biological process that we cannot control 100%.

Wow 2,300 grafts isnt a whole lot for that much surface area but this looks like it went a long way for them.

Interesting. It seems like a lot of similar methods are being used in other places. For example chondrocytes for cartilage. Seems like they use matrix scaffolds and spin them to regrow and have a quarter size putty to implant it back.

Seems like it would be promising if this could be sped up and we actually have this soon. But of course such is a way of life. Thanks for sharing Melvin.