bloodhound

On 3/20/2022 at 9:08 PM, JoeMan said:

Honestly I'd consider a touch up with HLC. Although they might not be your favorite now, they have every reason to get this right now. Looks like you won't require much to fix the spots of low density. 

I think you really want to lower your hairline but I think it looks fine. Are your results perfect? No.

Can HLC make good on this? Probably. 

I highly doubt that they will refund anything, especially 50%. I'd be shocked if they offer any money considering it looks decent.

Either way, I wish you luck and please keep us posted on what happens. Thanks for sharing 👍 

Is it wise to get a touch up at the same place that didn’t deliver on the results to such a notable degree, what if what didn’t go right the first time happens again?

9 minutes ago, EvansLawrence said:

Thats up to you! I wont get touched again by the same ones who gave me this result at that high graft cost and at that donnor treatment. That is for sure.

I see your going to Cotelessa, they do pre-set graft numbers is that right?

You might not have a lot of SULT1A enzymes in your scalp which is why you’re not seeing much growth from minoxidil. Look into dermarolling/dermastamping and it should make all the difference.

Get the transplant, as long as you’re not losing ground the finasteride is working

On 3/16/2022 at 6:33 AM, EvansLawrence said:

Update: i had on the 25th of February a phone call with Engin (HLC patient coordinator) and sent him the pics. We agreed on waiting for the managers to check the pics but I told him already that I want partial reinbursment. 

He mentiom about me "saying lies about the clinic on social media" which is not truth. I have a spanish friend who goes by mesiasss4 on youtube and we shared by our point of view my process on HLC. Sharing your opinion on youtube or here is just part of our rights and freedom. As long as I dont lie everything is ok, cause you can agree or disagree just as people agree with me here and others dont. And its just fine. 

3 weeks later I still wait for my answer. Havent received any message yet and honestly this looks just like they are forgetting about me.

I upload a pic of me at month 12th. End of recovery. Final result. You guys tell if this is acceptable at 2.5€/graft. And a total of 3157 grafts.

 

They offered me a free touch up and I am still thinking about what I will do. I agree this isn’t the ideal outcome despite some members here saying it’s due to how you comb your hair lol. At least 12 months is up and you can get another one hopefully. 

1 hour ago, Vann said:

A few questions for some individuals.

@spacemanspiffHow was your procedure? Did you go through with HLC? Did you have a write up post?

@bloodhound Did you get a response back from HLC about any of the issues you had? 

@EvansLawrence Did you get a response back from HLC? Also, you stated that its not your fault if a clinic doesnt tell you to take finasteride before getting a hair transplant. I am not sure thats the case with most places. I cant speak for all but its your own due diligence to finding out what you need to get done prior to ANY surgery. I personally think the reason for this is permanent shock loss to your native hair. I read that a main purpose of taking finasteride is not only to help hair loss but to minimize the damage done to the pre-existing native hairs (when transplanting hair-- nearby). There are plenty of doctors who talk about this and the importance of taking finasteride for at least 1 year Iminimum) with an average of 3-7mgs weekly. Its hard to say your follicles died due to blood supply competition (necrosis) because the images you provided showed some pretty good indicators that it wasnt. But I am not a trained doctor (or doctor at all) so, i honestly cannot tell you why you have a loss of hair in one area. But what i can say is that I think your transplant looks great. Like Melvin and some others saying... it will never be about having 100 cm2 density. Its an illusion to take you from 0 to 50 at least or from 0 to something that isnt 0. The images you have taken show the worst it can possibly look like but not what it would look like if you went about your day normally. I am sure if you are that bothered by it you would have some type of style to avoid the way it looks? Could you provide one of those photos?

Yes they offered me a free touch up 

13 minutes ago, Soon butchered by hlc said:

Yes very wise point. Agree 100% with you. 🙏

whichever decision you make I wish you well on your journey. You only have 1 set of donor hair, and even on finasteride albeit slower than normal, you’ll still continue to bald over time

It’s a risk regardless of which doctor you go to even they’re the best, the most you can do is minimize that risk while factoring in your budget, it’s your hair so don’t cheap out on it.

You did the right thing by continuing research and your reluctance to go through with your surgery is in my opinion your instinct telling you not to.

I know you may not want to wait longer, or have to go through the rabbit hole of finding another doctor, but if your unsatisfied with your results you will have to wait a full year minimum before another transplant.

There’s always a possibility that you may have satisfactory results from HLC, it’s not like they’re a hair mill. It seems like the fails that do happen are happening more recently. So maybe they changed the way they do things. 

Try to postpone your date, so you can have more time to think about it. You don’t want to make an impulsive decision and pay permanently for it, but maybe you’ll become comfortable going. 

Wish you luck 

5 minutes ago, Soon butchered by hlc said:

Mister Lopez, I really do not appreciate your behaviour. 

First of all, you deleted the links I posted on my previous comment. Why are you censoring information ? Because these were links to other forums that you perceive as concurrents to yours ? Because they show bad results from a particular clinic ? 

Totally unfair behaviour. I am considering unsubscribing already. 

Secondly you call me "just a troll". Okay well no, I am actually not a troll. But I do not care about your opinion. 

I decided to use this particular nickname on this forum simply because it reflects my current state of mind.

Going into surgery next week, having already bought the airplane tickets, paid for accomodation as well as the deposit and spent 700€ already while finding out literrally weeks/days (after digging VERY deep into the history of the clinic) that this "reputable clinic" has more than one bad result makes me question my decision to go there....

Sure my nickname is a bit sarcastic and may not sound serious but this is just how I feel right now. 

I guess I should have done my homework a bit earlier but without Bloodhound's and José's published cases on this forum I would have NEVER ever suspected anything wrong coming from HLC and thus would have never researched sooo deep into the archives and found quite a few additionnal bad cases.

Have a nice day. 

Is the risk of a failure and permanent loss of donor hair worth less then the deposit you’ve made

3 hours ago, Soon butchered by hlc said:

Hello bro,

I have also been dealing with hairloss for several years.
Norwood 4 diffuse thinner.
Finasteride 1mg daily.
I have used each and every imaginable pharmaceutical under the sun including Dutasteride at doses as high as 2.5mg daily, oral minoxidil, fluridil, RU58841 etc...
Pretty much everything except Derek's nuclear protocol and castration but sadly nothing grew back....And I remember Dr. Hamilton demonstrated that total endogenous deprivation through castration stops hairloss dead in its tracks but does regrow hair...
So I basically I just switched back to good old finasteride.
I have only 3 options left at this stage:

A) Finasteride for life and Hair Transplants. I need at least 4000 FU assuming the survival graft is gonna be over 95%
B) 15-20 laser removal over the course of 1-2 years in order to remove the balding shadow that still
makes Male Pattern Baldness visible even after a Gillette Fusion Proglide razor shave
C) SMP tattoo but that would involve touch-ups every couple years as well as shaving at least twice a week. Shaving is an incredible pain in the butt. Done it, been there for 2 years. Bledding, cuts, razors bumps, extreme scalp redness and irritation and lot of time, money and energy wasted in the bathroom and on shaving devices...

My hair transplant is schedulef at HLC next week.
Your story and EvanLawrence's freaks me out...Even though your case seems slightly worse than his.
Of course it is not a distaster but definetely not acceptable for such an expensive clinic.
I have seen good results from them but also many failed cases after digging very deep in the archives.
As for example these


May I ask you several questions please?

1) Do they let you choose which doctor is performing surgery during the first day of consultation ? Dr. Umut seems to be the one who messed up in 3 of the bad cases I have seen
2) Where exactly is the accomodation at HLC ? Was your appartment in the building right on the other side of the clinic across the road ? Or was it another place ?
3) Could you please described briefly what is the exact protocol to follow after the procedure ? Spraying, washing the grafts etc...
4) How is your donor area after 1 year ? Was it overharvested ? I guess little white dots are visible when completely buzzed, aren't they ?
5) How much is the price if you want Dr.Oztan to operate on you ? Some people say it is 3.5€ per graft, other claim he doesn't operate anymore because of neck issues...
THANKS A LOT

Hello how’s it going. 

I relate to your story but I’m gonna get straight to the point,  

No you can’t choose who operates. it’s umut and cenginz, 1 does extraction and 1 does implantation.

The apartments right across the street

You’ll be putting a cream on your donor for two weeks, and also spraying saline on your head for 2 weeks as well

I don’t know if Ozgur operates, I didn’t see it as a option.

And thank you for bringing those other 2 cases to my attention, it definitely helps me in my decision making

UPDATE: March 1st, 2022 (11 Months)

After sending HLC pictures of the current status of my transplant they called and offered me a free touch up.

I couldn’t get clarity on why it happened or if it would happen again which would result in a bigger loss of donor hair, but it makes sense as it’s something they would need to assess in person.

The trip itself is not free (1K USD for roundtrip) and I also want to close my temples, lower hairline slightly, and utilize some body hair on my crown.

It’s something to think about, I haven’t decided what I’m going to do next because I’m factoring in time, cost, and risk of another failure.

Either way I wanted to update those interested in my situation or who plan on going to HLC. Feel free to ask any questions, thanks. 

P.s. My hair looks the same.

On 2/5/2022 at 3:49 AM, EvansLawrence said:

Thanks for the update and the good wishes. Well Im not doing terrible but Im not in my best either.

I saw my new hair surgeon in Spain, who is also a trychologist and she told me that at least there is not noticeable infection/bad condition on the scalp. Just a not very good procedure. She would need 1000 grafts to redensify all the area, acording to her words.

My only hope is they asume responsabilities and compensate for it. Im scared they just behave as any ordinary low cost clinic om Turkey. I believe they are more professional but lets see. I contacted them again and they said maybe next week we have a videocall. If they were just a regular clinic maybe they wouldnt even reply, right?. I dont know. Lets see what happens.

How are you doing mentally??

Dang 1000 grafts is a lot. I know that has to be mentally taxing but if it’s what needs to be done try to turn your brain off and not think about it. Just put as much effort into preventing further loss so you can minimize the need for future transplants.

If the trichologist says it wasn’t a good operation I wonder how others have came out of the same clinic we did with superb results. I don’t know what the correct answer is.. 

I do think if they didn’t want to help they wouldn’t respond or would find a way to make it your fault. I myself reached out a week ago with pictures but haven’t gotten a response yet. Can you tell me how long it took for you to get a response?

I’m mentally exhausted because I thought this would be the answer to my issues, the money spent, time waited etc.. I want to live my life again.

Good wishes man 

On 1/25/2022 at 4:09 AM, EvansLawrence said:

Month 11 and a half

No improvement since last 5 months. I have accepted there wont be any improvement now. I want to show the poor density from all angles.

Next week/ 2 weeks I have my call with HLC. 

About my repair: I was about to do it on January with Dra. Cotellesa. We moved it to August cause in some areas there is still miniaturization (specially the middle part of my head, where HLC didnt touch yet, not much on implanted area) so in order to save some grafts I continue now with oral minoxidil, ketoconazol champoo and medebiotin forte so I can improve that (ofc I continue with finasteride as well). Acording to her about 1000 grafts would be needed to redensify the current implanted area. Lowering my hairline/temples is not recomended since donnor is already touched and would demand more grafts. Still I hope we can do something.

Sometimes at certain lighting where I dont see my lack of density (as in some previous pics, month 6 for example) I feel good cause looks like not big deal but then if hair is wet, light changes... I get back to reallity. I really wish I could have ended up as some of those cases they publish on their webside/ youtube. But I wont spend more time now regreting.

After my call next month with HLC I will post here what solution/ compensation they gave, if any, and forget about this procedure and focus myself on my current treatment, my life and next surgery.

 

Cheers

 

Still in the same boat as you. 10 months in and no improvement from month 6. Saw a Dermatologist and recently contacted the Clinic with my concerns. We’ll see where we go from here, hope you’re doing good mentally 

7 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Impossible to say because the picture quality. Anyone can make an HT look perfect or disastrous, depending on presentation. It’s clear he’s spreading his hair and going under bright lights. Hopefully, he’ll share some better comparisons. 

Well I’m not really concerned with what it looks like if I style it in a way to hide the thinness because It’s not how I would like to wear my hair. I showed these pics because I’m concerned with the grafts that haven’t sprouted but should be there. I’ll still upload pics of it looking nice 

6 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Impossible to say because the picture quality. Anyone can make an HT look perfect or disastrous, depending on presentation. It’s clear he’s spreading his hair and going under bright lights. Hopefully, he’ll share some better comparisons. 

So to see the yield you want me to comb the area and not be under light? Wouldn’t that make it harder to tell?

1 hour ago, SadMan2021 said:

If money was no issue, I don't see how anyone would go to the same clinic again for a repair job. If it were me I would need a d*mn good explanation from the clinic why this wouldn't happen a 2nd time

I would say the only explanation would be if it wasn’t the clinic’s fault. There are people who get amazing results from them, and a few mishaps. You’re right though, I’m uncertain of who to go with now, and it’s exhausting to think about. Next step is getting my scalp looked at

2 hours ago, MachoVato said:

My weak area was about the same as Evans. Yours appears less dense than mine was at month 8. Fortunately, it was on my right side, which was naturally covered over by my hair style, so it was always hidden. 

I had my second HT at month 9, after that everything seems to improve. I also switched to oral minoxidil at that time, so that might have contributed to the improvement? Not sure. (I do recommend oral minoxidil since I'm seeing good results from it, particularly around my ears which have improved)

Why did I go to Bisanga? I've answered this a few times, but basically I wanted an expert in donor management and temples and I had a much better budget. I requested quotes/dates from HLC, Bisanga, and De Freitas. De Freitas never responded. HLC had an opening in 4 months. Bisanga had an opening in 5 weeks. HLC was more than capable and I would have received a nice discount rate but I went to Bisanga. He's more detailed than HLC, it's a much smaller clinic and more personalized. But overall my experience was better with HLC.

If I get a third transplant, it will be a different doctor. Probably Mwamba. If I get a fourth, I'll go to someone else. That's just how I do things.

Your case is tricky. I don't think it'll suddenly get super dense, but it should improve over the next 3-4 months. If it still poor density, ask for a touch up. You paid for quality, give them an opportunity to make good on that. 

I wish I could but I can’t do Oral Minoxidil because of the potential side effects, I’m asthmatic so I don’t want to risk affecting my cardiovascular system. Instead I’m looking into sublingual minoxidil because it may have a better safety profile. Awesome that it’s working for you, I recommend monitoring your blood pressure just so you know you’re safe

If I understand, you chose Bisagna because he was an expert in what you wanted to achieve, and he was more expensive but available sooner than HLC. Who did you feel delivered better results despite the visits being for 2 different things, and is he significantly more expensive? 

Thanks 💪 

6 minutes ago, Charlii said:

Hey Guys

@EvansLawrence @bloodhound

I saw your pictures, sorry for the low density..

but i wouldnt blame dr umut, since he did my whole transplantation and i got a good result.

 

 

To clarify I haven’t blamed any doctor. I don’t know what the reason it didn’t work for me is yet. I think it is odd that me and @EvansLawrencehave literally the same problem, one we will need to fix which is frustrating regardless of the reason. Happy it worked out for you though, your hair looks great

18 hours ago, MachoVato said:

Yes, I agree. OP and @EvansLawrence have shown the weak areas in the very worse conditions... parted and under harsh light. They are still weak areas and should be better, without question.

Even I had a weak area up through month 9. But it's filled in nicely over the last few months. My density is as good as seen in the videos. My doctors were Elif and Cengiz.

My heart goes out to all HT patients that don't get a great result. I hold HLC to a high bar. Yes, after 12 months (if still an issue), I would ask them for a free touch up. HLC should be willing to do a free touch up, 200, maybe 300 grafts. But to ask for a refund is absurd and to claim "failure" is ridiculous.

How would you compare your weak area to ours?

and can I ask why you went with a different clinic after HLC? 

@asterix0@Gasthoerer

Topic aside, that was a great debate. I think both of you make good points and had reasonable rebuttals. 

First I will visit a tri/dermatologist and see if there’s any existing hairs that could sprout in the future. If there’s not I will contact the clinic and ask for their input. I do not want to wait a full year just to be disappointed, at this point I don’t know who to go with… who’s faults it was etc. 

I appreciate both of you bringing good points to my attention and helping me in my decision when you didn’t have to, it really means a lot to me right now 

58 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Can you share a picture of your hair normal? Without spreading it apart. It is hard to judge a result with the hair spread apart. Even the best hair transplants look thin if you spread it apart and go under a light, that's why I created this thread.

 

I actually didn’t spread it apart, that’s how my hair sits if I don’t purposely comb it upwards. I will upload pics of it looking nice tomorrow since it’s my shampoo day 

4 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

Most people here had a hair a hair transplant and can fully relate to the feeling if a result is subpar. I preach patience all the time, but when my second HT came in late, I also went into panic mode. BUT: One should always try to be rational and separate facts from feeling. Fact is: This is a minor issue considering all the risks which can occur during a hair transplant.  

This is not correct and it creates unnecessary friction between the clinic and the patient. This forum is to help and guide not to create more trouble. The patient and the clinic can both do everything right, and still end up with such a result. 

In a case like this you probably will never find out what went wrong. Not because the clinic hides it from you, but because no one (!) knows. If there is no underlying condition which explains the result it is just that the grafts haven't taken. A graft is an organ, the blood vessels have to connect by themselves and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the grafts do not survive the stress of surgery.

We have seen worse than this from any (!) top clinic in the world with FUE and FUT. Therefore this is unfortunate, but not really unexpected.  

I agree, circumstances can occur that no one has an answer too. But If this is this case; should a person go back to the place where the grafts didn’t take? If they didn’t take the first time why should they take the second time?

22 minutes ago, EvansLawrence said:

Man upload if you may oficial pics of the clinic so we can prove that it was done there. I trust you. But just to make it official. I know a friend that could share this case.

Sure 

15 minutes ago, SadMan2021 said:

no it was a free repair job. While the result was....better...it was still lacking density. The doctor just sucked. For my 3rd HT I went to a doc who actually specialized in hair transplants and he finally gave me great density. 

So I learned the hard way that, if a doctor does their very best A+ effort the 1st time and its a sh*t result, chances are the 2nd go around will be bad as well. 

My situation was a bit different from yours tho in that my 1st operating doc was a complete and utter rando who just does HT's on the side, apart from her main medical specialty. Whereas in your case, your surgery was done somewhere that actually has good reviews. 

So perhaps HCI did just have a fluke or something. Not sure. 

It wasn’t completely in vain, I learn form your story. Probably won’t go back there if I’m truly screwed. You don’t have to—but could I get the name of the doctor you decided on, you can PM me if that’s better for you.  I want to know what good options are based on other people’s experiences 

17 minutes ago, EvansLawrence said:

I know. What a waste of money and grafts.

The grafts most importantly. Now I don’t know who to go to for a touch up. First I want to be seen by a dermatologist and/or trichologist 

57 minutes ago, EvansLawrence said:

Same that me. And my bad side is the one Umut did.

My bad side it actually the right side. I was under the impression one doctor did extractions, and one did implementation. I’m pretty sure I remember that being the case 

On 3/4/2021 at 1:03 AM, EvansLawrence said:

3 weeks! Shock loss started 😁

 

Your hairline looks flawless 2-3 weeks in just like mine did