urbanite88

On 10/27/2023 at 4:37 PM, PleasantlySurprised54 said:

Thanks @urbanite88!

I hope your procedure went well too. Tell me more about this, "which now explains a lot of things about my experience." Was there complications, or issues?

Oh no not complications. Just that I was thought my procedure was meant to start at 11am but it didn't start until about 2.30pm with me twiddling my thumps for a while and getting tense haha also I wanted to spend some time with Dr Das the day before, which i asked for months in advance but the support guys insisted any planning session would need to be on the day and they will not rush me ( which was a concern from other reviews) I did see her very briefly the day before for about 30 seconds in passing at the reception ! My first HT was in a 1 doctor 1 patient setup so the differences became quite apparent while I was there even though I knew this going in to be fair. 

Anyhow Dr Das is a great lady who really made me feel at ease on the day when things started getting going 

I saw your note about the google review thing, yeah I felt a little awkward about that two, because they asked about it twice! A bit pushy/salesy from that side but think they were all well intentioned !  

Wow!! I had my second HT with Dr Das on the 14th October, so on your second day, I would have been the other patient Dr Das was in charge of ( which now explains a lot of things about my experience ). I was scheduled for a 2 days surgery on 14th & 15th but even before when I was on plane out from UK I knew I had to think more long term and wanted a smaller procedure than previously discussed with Eugenix, so we managed a lower graft count all in one day.

PS my BP after my arrival on 13th was apparently perfectly normal (slightly even on lower side) but on the morning itself it was high! But it eventually dropped after they gave me some anti anxiety meds to calm me down

Any congratulations on your transplant, it looks good!  

Hey guys, not sure if this is covered elsewhere or something obvious I have missed. I was curious, how do transplant surgeons know where in your scalp to make incisions for new grafts? How do they know if your existing hair follicle there there might be completely gone and unlikely to grow hair vs follicles that are just dormant as part of normal shedding?

Good to get those data points. I called mine up but they refused to book them for me, but gave me an appointment in 10 days time to discuss why I need them haha 

Is, I just want a general health check not a good enough reason? 

Ah sweet! Was thinking they'd reject me too but maybe will give my GP a try first 👍

Hey everyone, I'm booked in for Eugenix next month, wandering if anyone in the UK (I'm London based) can recommended a suitable place to get most of these blood tests required? I've reached out to a couple of places who are quoting over £400 !

Also if I get the HIV/Hep ones from a GUM clinic would they be acceptable?

Appreciate any suggestions

Hey dude, have to say a you have excellent donor and body hair to boot, lucky man! 

I am booked for my second HT with Dr Priya Das on 21-22nd February so I may bump into you!

I shall be arriving just the night before surgery so won't have time to explore India unfortunately but maybe stick around a week or so if I can make it work with work. 

Thanks @MachoVato but no spin intended. Perhaps I was having a little wobble, that's it.

On 7/7/2021 at 5:39 PM, SD1984 said:

This answer makes zero sense, just fyi. The size/microns of the hair should be the determining factor of the punch size used. If it was all about protecting the donor from being overharvested as she said with no other factors, then every surgeon in the world would use a .07mm.

Yeah its perplexing. There appears to be some debate about this but no consensus on what the perfect balance is.

Hoping the bright side is my donar should be in the best possible condition as can be when I do go for the second session

1 hour ago, MC10298 said:

 

I agree, 2100 singles does sound dispropotionaely high. One of the benefits of FUE is the ability to choose the required number of singles for the hairline and then multi-hair grafts for density.

 

Based on the above:-

S 2100

D 1140 X 2 = 2280

M 670 X 3 = 2010 (this would be an absolute minimum as you might expect some 4's 5's etc)

 

Total: 6390 (yield of 1.63 per FU, which seems low)

 

How did you arrive at 6200?

 

General comments

 

• I agree it would good to know the transection rate. I was reading a post recently where the HT transplant reported. "Dr Ma counted every single punch out loud, which was nice to follow along. His team would then pull out the grafts at the same time and provide live confirmation whether it was good or transected, so he could adjust as he went. " 
•  
• I have seen discussions where HT patients compare the size of punch used. 0.7mm is the smallest I've read. There does seem to be a drive to use smaller punches with an inherently increased risk of transection. Ultimately it is the interest of both the clinic and patient to have a successful outcome. All you can do is check previous results, do your due diligence, and trust in the process.

 

 

6200 was a typo from top of my head I remembered it being 6300 or so. 

Yeah I've seen a few places (Inc Dr arshad in UK) that do shout out the doubles/tripples etc. It's great to be able to have complete transparency where that is possible. And even the best of the best of surgeon's are still human and will not always be perfect in their execution each time.

All things considering I did opt for what I considered was the best choice for me with all the information I had available. 

14 hours ago, Spring15 said:

Looking good pal. I am also looking to go with Dr Bicer.  Great detail of the whole process you've presented us

Do all the staff speak English? 

Can't say about all of them. Ozen and Dr Bicer do

2 hours ago, gradina22 said:

Hello Urbanite88

 

Im a newbie into posting other patients, but I just wanted to comend you about your write up. 

I found that few things were rather similair to my case, neglecting the fact that you did FUE (FUT myself, 17th post op day). 

 

About that inner voice. Just my guess, maybe Im completely wrong. But if you were feeling down for a day or two, or during some hours of the day.... Dont stress about it. You did a good job, the worst is over and you ll have a very interesting (and slugish haha) days and weeks in front of you. 

I was feeling pretty down 1 post op day. Again was feeling pretty shitty when I came back to my country (16th day). But when I look back at yesterday I just cant believe how could I feel that way, cause today was great! So that shift of emotions is very gripping but also a regular stuff. 

 

If i completly missfired about the inner voice, sorry

 

Your writing was not dull. It was very informing. Also I would add tast you can produce great pictures. 

Head "needles" are prety common. I also had these. Sometimes feeling was pretty intensive. 

 

Did you have itching moments?? 

 

I was also Very nervous about sweating. But dont stress about it. I was moving from Switzerland to Germany and something very close to your case happened. It was hot. I didnt know where the f I was. I was terrified that sweat can fuck something. Although I had bandana over my head. 

I also traveled during Covid19 fuckdemic. 

I was really afraid that something bad will come up on border controls. Try to be chill about it

Dont wory about thit stuff, everything will be fine. My post op check went really smooth

 

Haha, I was also lost with how much presure does one need to use while tending the recipient area. 

 

FYI By the way, my FUT scar never really hurt. I was using a neck pillow for two weeks. 

Didnt get a lot of sleep. But Im now wondering what amount of pain does one experience during FUE cause I really wasnt feeling almost any pain. 

I took only 1 ibuprofen before sleep just for first three days. 

 

Just curious. 

If its not a secret, how old are you and are you using any meds? 

 

Happy growing man. Dont despair when these new folicules go away. They will be back after 3 months

 

Hey man.. thanks for the message. I guess we all go through this process of second guessing ourself/ how everything went and if you really made the best choice etc

I just had this feeling that I'd maybe spread myself too thin.. and I maybe didn't have the best yield/outcome. O will write again about it. 

Btw I'm 37 and yes I've been in med for over 5 years. I also just read your story .. wow!! You has a gigantic FUT! You are very lucky you had such a good donor supply. 

Wish you all the best with your recovery and the results!

First 12 days update

15 hours ago, SLA said:

Excellent @urbanite88! Great write up and thanks for sharing your journey with us. That was fast as I think it was just yesterday that I replied to your post.

Good surgeons know how to do a lot with less so it would be great should the 3,800 be sufficient and there be no need for a 2nd surgery.

Wishing you lots of growing and look forward to seeing your continued progress!!!

Thanks @SLA yep slight delay in posting.. when I was writing the intro I was already on the move. All this covid testing and awaiting results really keeps you on the edge

14 hours ago, slim999 said:

You should get a medal for sharing such a well written piece.

Did you use the hat they gave you,  in public and during the flight ?

 

 

 

Haha thanks!

It was a baseball cap.. and definitely not comfortable.. just used it that day. Besides I wasn't ready to advertise i had a HT in the streets of Istanbul.

Would recommend anyone to get a fisherman style soft hat for first few days.. baseball caps feel abit inappropriate if you've just had your hairline worked on.. also it sticks to your still sore donar area

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I have to say this is one of the best written out reviews. I can see that Dr. Bicer really cared about her patients. I would say she’s in the top 1% of all Turkish clinics. I don’t think many clinics operate 11 hours on any one patient. That is true patient care. I look forward to seeing your updates and progress 👏🏼

Thanks @Melvin- Moderatorjust noticed a few typos  I was posting this while catching up with some Euro games.

Wish there was a magic wand to skip straight to the final results already  

21 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

As a Norwood 6 DO NOT discredit FUT. Combining both will give you more grafts.

I have considering and have been suggested a combined FUT/FUE procedure.

Atm my reluctance for FUT is mainly that I prefer to keep my back hair short, even when I had a full head of hair.

Secondly, I get the feeling I might have low scalp laxity issue (need to get this professionally confirmed for the future). I would probably be more keen to use beard hair first (I seem to have a fairly strong beard hair luckily )

Just posted the photos of my first Op

21 hours ago, SLA said:

Nice story @urbanite88!

I have been active on this forum close to 1 year and have seen donor assessments vary tremendously from doctor to doctor. The one that stands out to me the most is @Zoomsterwho had 7k grafts done with Eugenix (5,600 scalp and 1,400 beard). He has fine hair and a self classified donor as a little under average and was pretty much a slick bald NW6/7.

He was rejected as a candidate by the Farjo clinic some 10 years prior through photo consult and had an in person with a reputable HT surgeon in Ireland who told him they could harvest 3,500 grafts maximum through FUT/FUE/BHT.

18 months ago, when he went to Eugenix they told him his donor was good and harvested 5,600 scalp grafts (and 1,400 beard grafts) in one procedure and stated they feel he has 2k scalp grafts left to harvest in another procedure.

You can check out his thread on this forum in which you will see that he now has a full head of hair. He is returning to Eugenix in September to add more density to the mid scalp and crown.

Your hair loss is not as far progressed as @Zoomster was prior to his procedure and while I am certainly no expert, your donor looks okay and certainly not worse that his (again, I am no expert :)).

That being said, if I was looking to be restored as a NW5/6 (which I am), I might really consider a virtual consult with Eugenix (which I did) and potentially holding out for them (which I might). In my observation, they have one of the best evidenced track record of restoring higher NWs and know how to make few grafts go a long way.

I have seen good work from Bicer too, but have not seen a full restoration of a higher NW as well as not seen her work of mixing scalp and beard graft strategically to restore to full coverage. I have seen her achieve near full coverage on a higher NW, but not full.

Good luck and continue asking away!!!

 

Cheers SLA! Looks super impressive indeed!! I will be following Eugenix very closely going forward.  A 3 day back to back surgery kinda scares me though !

Thanks man, one doctor did think I can harvest around 6000 safely but I may not need it, if they use them correctly. UK doctors are definitely on the more conservative side compared to others. 

With the finasteride, yes I think it halted any further loss in front/mid section, but the crown still did have some (maybe almost miniaturised) hair at 31.. that was pretty much gone by 34. I don't know if switching finasteride brand in-between had anything to do with it.

I had thought about switching to Dustesride 

Hey guys, been lurking around these forums for months now and just wanted to introduce myself before I start posting!

Background

37 yo healthy male based in UK with Norwood 5/6 level hair loss pattern. Been losing hair since 21, really became noticeable by others around 25. I've always had super thick dense hair, that people complimented me on, and in my teenage years, rather difficult to style due to the thickness.
Hair loss was enough of an issue to affect my mental health and my confidence in certain situations. Overtime that only got stronger. Started finasteride at 31 through a private prescription years after my useless doctor tried to make me feel vain for seeking out this treatment at age 25, when according to him I had "plenty of hair"!?. MPB runs through most of my family, though mine seemed to have started/progressed a lot earlier compared to older relatives.

While the finasteride stabilized the loss somewhat, it never really helped grow back any hair. Thinking I probably could have halted half my loss had I started finasteride at 25, is rather upsetting. I had tried Regaine (5% minoxidil ) in earlier years with little success. Also used 12% from Belgravia alongside the fin, which I have been on for around 3 years, with a little better success of thickening existing hair. While my hairline/temples has probably receded between 2-4 inches since my youth, what really bothered me the most was my crown. I always felt conscious of it every time I got a glimpse of it on the mirror and could not shake off for days on end. I tried laser light treatments too, but that just seemed way too clunky. In the last 3 months, I also started derma-rolling with a 0.5mm roller, just to keep my existing hairs in good shape in prep for the HT more than anything.

I had been thinking about hair transplants for years, but wanted to explore all non-surgical avenues first, which I think I well and truly have now. Really started serious research over the last 18 months, and it's been a process of real highs and lows, at times feeling disheartened and ultimately just exhausting. I discovered various HT forums in the last 6/7 months, which really helped with my research based on following concrete case studies which helped rule out doctors who just were not up to it. So I am ever so grateful for communities like this

My initial focus was just in the UK, but ultimately, I had to broaden the search to consider Turkey, Belgium, as far as India. In total I have had 20+ consultations with various doctors. The range of proposals were as varied as the countries the doctors were from! I was offered between 1800-2000 grafts, just for the hairline/top half to 5000+ grafts over two day sessions to cover the front and crown. The assessment of my donor area ranged from "limited" to "very good". All 4 UK doctors I visited in person however were consistent in their assessment that my donor was good for 2 procedures up to 4000-4500 grafts. One of those doctors stated by donor density was 85 FU/cm2. I was starting to build a consensus of what was possible/achievable for me and what aligned with my preferences.

Given the current state of the world, I really just wanted to find a good doctor in London, but the options of suitable doctors for my specific case were thin on the ground. There are several good doctors in London but unfortunately, I just could not find any with a convincing history of working on NW5/6 patients.

I should state, I also tried to reach out to Dr Balls in the UK, Dr Couts and Dr Freitas in Spain but they were all oversubscribed and I was looking at a timeline of late 2022, just not an option for me. Eventually I shortlisted 3 doctors.

Dr Arshad from the Hair Dr in Leeds, Dr Ozlem Bicer in Turkey and Dr Arika Bansal of Eugenix in India. Dr Bicer was an unlikely contender for me, due to patchy communication and it generally being difficult to really build a rapport with the clinic, many things lost in translation. At first look she seemed mostly to do very dense packing front hairlines, great results but fewer crown work. But there was something about Dr Bicer's profile and some of her patients that really captured me, I was drawn to couple of patients I found relatable and who were in similar stages of hair loss to me, who underwent transplant and reported a good experience.

Unfortunately, India was soon not an option at all. Then also in early January I believe, Turkey banned UK travellers from entering. For a few weeks, I thought the choice was pretty much made for me. Dr Arshad seemed to be a great, so I was happy to explore further into that. Problem is, when I eventually managed to talk to him on video (I already had a date booked in April just prior to it) it was very very short. A couple of things he said concerned me, in particular that he may not be able to give me any coverage in crown if I wanted good results in the hairline/top first. This off course, after I had already had extensive discussions with Sommiya, the practice manager about my concerns and wishes and how I wanted even a little coverage in my crown so that I wasn't totally bald in one area. The second thing that stood out to me, was when asked about the various extraction/incision punch sizes, he stated, for me he would probably use 1.2mm incisions (cant remember if he actually meant extractions here) since I look to have thick hair. That worried me a little, as I though that must mean more bleeding and longer recovering time (one of the things that's held me back from HT for so long is because I am of a nervous disposition, I do not like seeing blood or needles much!). I had looked into this topic enough to get a sense that skilled and experienced surgeons should be able to use 0.8-0.9mm punch sizes to extract multiple hairs, and not use bigger ones, just because its easier.

I had to take a step back and could not proceed with the April date. I tried to arrange a further call, even suggesting to get a train up to Leeds for a face to face consultation, but unfortunately that was not possible due to the clinic no longer offering face to face meetings as the best way to minimize the covid risks to the clinic.

In the meantime, I followed through with a final consultation with another Harley Street clinic I had already arranged months prior, which ended up being rather disappointing. I kept communications with Ozen, Dr Bicer's coordinator, and toyed with different scenarios in which I could achieve the results I would be happy with there. Dr Bicer stated I would need 7000+ grafts over 2 sessions a year apart to get both crown and hairline/top done. First session would be for 3800 grafts, and the second session only confirmed after that, if my donor was good enough. Initially they had a couple of dates in May and then no availability until September. But the May dates came and went by.
At this point I was all too aware how much time and energy I'd already dedicated to this process, and I felt like I had already waited too long to do this, I just wanted to make a decision and get it done this summer/autumn. And with covid still lingering on, it seems now is as good as ever for some downtime to recover and being able to work from home during the worst bits!

By a twist of fate, in the last days of May, I heard Turkey was allowing Brits in again and got in touch in Ozen and they also coincidentally had a cancellation in June!

When I spoke to Dr Bicer, suddenly all the prior communication problems seemed a mute point, she seemed very warm and I did not feel rushed in the call. She assessed my donor again in video (not in the best lighting) and again reiterated my donor might not be strong enough to support both procedures. So I put forth my bottom line, given I had 3800-4000 to play with, I confirmed I would like us to sit down in person and decide how we put those to use before the surgery. As I hung up, I had a date booked in June!! Slight problem, Turkey was on UK's RED list of countries, an effective travel ban.

I will post very soon to let you all know what happens next! But here are some pics of my scalp and donor area for now