HappyMan2021

1 hour ago, Buffaloboy said:

Most people do not have the funds in order to pursue this long term.

so you're saying a lawyer wouldn't take this on contingency? I wonder why not....

I honestly hope OP sues, this goes to trial, the doctor is barred from future HTs, OP is is expensed the total cost of all repairs, and emotional compensation to boot. I am of course rooting for OP. 

But just objectively and impartially, I would be curious to see the language of any claims/release papers OP signed

Horrible, negligible, uncaring, irresponsible doctors and their clinics are usually still wise enough to have a lawyer on retainer and reduce their liability. 

I doubt OP is the first botched case from the clinic nor the first person to potentially pursue a legal route with them.

I am a botched repair patient myself, know plenty of other botched patients (a few who went the legal route) and all failed. 

I do think a lawyer MIGHT still be a good tactic to put added pressure on the clinic to give you a refund and then some. 

But from a textbook, in the weeds legal POV, even the worst doctors out there are smart enough to have legal defense in place before surgery. 

14 minutes ago, jjalay said:

In a court of law if you can prove medical error or malpractice any papers you have signed before surgery doesnt mean much either

A court of law is not going to get as granular as bad angles, multi grafts, etc. 

The court's litmus test is going to be "did OP get disabled from this surgery. Has OP lost wages, etc."

Also, consider we are on a hair transplant forum so naturally there is going to be an exaggerated amount ton of sympathy, support, understanding, etc. Op is preaching to the choir here lol. 

In a court of law its going to be a much less sympathetic, much more black and white litmus test

If OP had a legit claim, why isnt every botched patient suing their doctors?

OP is hardly the first botched patient to consider the legal route

I doubt you have an actual/true/legitimate legal claim that would hold up in a court of law. If you signed any sort of patient documents/claims prior to surgery, it pretty much kills your case. I'm certain it would have mentioned something along the lines of "this is a voluntary cosmetic surgery, results not guaranteed, etc."

At most I think you will get refunded the 2500 euros. You can likely pressure the clinic to get this amount. It is such a small amount of money (relatively speaking) I don't think the clinic would vigorously fight it. I would be extremely surprised if you get anything more than that. 

The clinic likely will not pay for future repair surgeries with a different clinic. Their reasoning will likely be "we have already offered you a free touchup, if you decline we are not going to be footing the bill for you to go elsewhere when we will do a touch up for free"

It is an injustice, you have been wronged, and it is unfair, but the clinic likely has you be the b*lls unfortunately. The clinic likely wouldn't have operated on you in the first place if they risked massive liability. Their defense is in order - like all clinics - because they would have refused to operate on you if you didn't sign away any future rights/claims prior to surgery. 

2 repair surgeries from a competent doctor will cost anywhere from 15k-40k euros, so I would budge5 for that to be safe...

On the bright side, your surgery was ridiculously cheap in the 1st place (big red flag!!!) and if your hair transplant journey went the proper way you'd still be paying tens of thousands of dollars to begin with

2 hours ago, ZaynSzn said:

I know in the U.S that can happen to, but they normally play it super safe so it doesn't come out that way

this is not true, there are loads of absolutely atrocious and horrible doctors in the US, in the UK, in every country you can think of. 

You really have to look at things from a surgeon-specific level, not country. 

Here is a thread from just yesterday with a botched UK result.

2 hours ago, ZaynSzn said:

Bro like. The issue was, I KNOW I will need more surgies in the future. No doubt in my mind. But not ONE year later, because you decided that you didn't wanna place more grafts in the middle. I even told him this. "Doc, I understand I will need more surgies in the future, thats fine with me. But I am NOT fine, with needing another surgery because we didn't do enough the first time". Thats what gets me angry tbh. So, if its not 10/10 results, and the finasteride doesn't thicken that area up in the mid scalp, i am sueing or getting a refund.

yea alot of doctors are unfortunately like that. its a total rip-off. 

if possible I would simply laser/electrolysis and kill all the bad grafts off then start from step 1 again

Formally trying to repair the existing work is probably not worth the stress or cost

Unfortunately I do not think simply filling in the gaps will satisfy you. You likely will not be at peace as long as you have the bad anges, multis, and anything else going on either. 

If it makes you feel better, this is HARDLY the worst botch job I have seen on the forums. Yes it is undeniably bad work, but I think both on Reddit and on here the comments may have been overreacting. 

Consider that some botch patients can't leave the house without a hat on. I also don't see any mention of scarring in your review. Many botch jobs have such bad scarring that patients can't buzz it all off even if they want to

Your result seems malleable because you can kill off all the bad grafts with relative ease. Or maybe do a no-guard/zero guard shave every few days on the transplant area so that it will not be noticeable. 

The good news is you only got 670 grafts done which makes repairing easier. Imagine if you had a 3k graft surgery with these kind of results?

44 minutes ago, jjalay said:

You can find the pricing for each doctor in their websites

you can?

Not to be cynical - but in my experience pricing is not a static amount, but rather doctors subjectively look at a # of factors in setting the price.

24 minutes ago, laverita said:

You don't want to punch out 3200 grafts

yes this would take a really long time and be very costly. Quite seriously 4 or even more surgeries (and that's only if all those surgeries go according to plan 😬)

Doable, yes, but a very long and hard journey. 

1 hour ago, botched said:

I had the means and opportunity to take time off to recover and travel

I could be 100% wrong in my assumption, but if you had the means to take 6 months after surgery off to recover and travel, it sounds like you have a lot of money at your disposal and are a pretty well-off dude. 

HLC is "generally" known as a good clinic, but one that is known as being a good clinic on a budget. They may not have the most elite doctors, but its moreso "pound for pound" they are the best bang for your buck. 

If money was no factor for you, I'm not sure why you went with HLC. 

But again I could be completely wrong in this assumption. 

1 hour ago, botched said:

It was hlc. I am actually a very stable person normally, the only thing i was in denial about was my nw scale. I had a semi preserved frontal tuft which led me to believe i was less advanced. I suggested this frontal tuft to be the origin of the hairline which the doctor ran with without question. Beyond unethical.

are you able to say the specific surgeon who operated on you? I have seen amazing cases from HLC (although they certainly have their misses as well, so this is all very interesting. 

Would you also want to share more pics? As of now I'm not sure anyone here can objectively assess the surgery with your single pic?

I suppose the 'good' news in all of this is yes you certainly can reverse course and kill all the transplant grafts, shave it all off and I guess aesthetically have it so the HT never happened (hopefully there are no complications such as scarring or anything like that)

It is also much much much MUCH easier to reverse course on your HT journey after only 1 surgery, as opposed to if you were 3 surgeries in already

2 hours ago, botched said:

Stupidly in a panicked state I straight up removed some grafts from the temples.

how soon after surgery did you do this?!? did you laser or electrolysis? I'm surprised the laser/electrolysis lady agreed to do this so soon after surgery!

Even if you utterly hate and can't stand this procedure, you really should wait 6 months to start killing grafts and reversing course

You could be doing pretty bad damage to your scalp doing it while your scalp is still recovering from surgery

Also with all the redness and scabbing, it might be hard for the lady to only identify the bad grafts and she may accidentally be killing off some of your native hair, because it is likely confusing and hard to pinpoint everything with all the activity you've just had done on your scalp

longer hair is pretty much better in every single scenario...

I do not think there is a 'ceiling for long hair either' i.e. its not like your hair will get so long there will be a reverse illusion of density affect. Longer hair is always better

I wish more people knew the little known fact about the correlation between hair length and hair transplants, because even good hair transplants can and do restrict the variety of hairstyles guys can do

Very very very broadly speaking, hair transplants are not ideal for short, athletic-style cuts. 

46 minutes ago, botched said:

I have taken half a year off work.

@botched This must be a typo right?!? You took a half a year off for your post op recovery or what do you mean?

Who was the surgeon?

Your original post is pretty wild and a bit eyebrow raising

For someone who apparently spent a lot of time researching HTs, surely you must know that your provided pic doesn't really tell us much? 

Can you please take more detailed pics so the community can better help assess?

If your post is 100% true, then it is also a good example that not every ht candidate has the psychological profile to withstand the rollercoaster that is HT surgery. I mean this respectfully. Even patients with 10/10 homerun results often have moments of fear, anxiety, and despair following surgery. 

The long and volatile nature of recovery + the increasing complexity of further surgeries (if needed) means this type of procedure is not meant for people who are 'OK' one day and then the next want to reverse course and shave it all off.

@ZaynSzn I'm curious what your Fortnight channel/streamer name is? 

You obviously don't have to say if you don't want to. But as a public figure who makes money by streaming, I just figure you would want to share that to get as many visitors as possible

Hair transplant feedback:  I think it was a mistake doing a no shave procedure for this. 

Going full shave is better for surgery, and honestly the full shave/buzz cut/ugly duckling period is way overexaggerated. Simply wearing a hat solves 90% of ugly duckling issues

23 is also way too young to have gotten this done. Once you have had 1 HT you have committed to the journey for better or worse. 

Hairloss is unpredictable. No doctor in the world can with 100% certainty tell you where you will end up on the Norwood scale. At 23 you have alot of time for more loss

I just hope your hairloss remains forever stable and you didn't just inadvertently sign yourself up for 3-4 more surgeries in order to fix future hairloss

25 minutes ago, hairman4321 said:

Did you go to an electrolysis clinic or have an at home device?

Clinic. Im not sure why anyone would use an at home device.

Go to a professional because there is way less risk and also each clinic session only costs a bit more than the cost of a nice haircut

2 hours ago, Tommy1991 said:

I had some knowledge but I had no idea of the scale the Dr would be attending other patients

its one thing for a doctor to tend to 2 patients in 1 day....but FOUR patients?

Honestly that just feels irresponsible and reckless

I doubt that even greats like Konior or Nader could properly handle 4 patients in one day

1 hour ago, TAF said:

To date I’ve emailed him 3x, reached out on LinkedIn and left at least 3 voicemails .

Nader is perhaps the hottest doctor on the market currently because he is very skilled and also very cheap, it is an extremely rare combination!

He has the luxury to selectively pick and choose his patients because his line is out the door and popularity through the roof. He does not need to go out of his way to get patients. 

You can certainly keep trying to get ahold of him, but if you are still met with silence you may need to look at other options. 

I think hats to cover baldness are totally fine as long as the hats are fashionable and fit your wardrobe

People will be less likely to question your reasoning for wearing a hat as long as your hat selection is coordinated with the rest of your outfit and whatever setting/environment you are in

I feel like most guys begin and end with the super basic 5 dollar  baseball hat, and don't take into consideration that hats are fashion choices just as much as a fancy suit or nice watch, etc. 

Bro you can get bumps and other traumatic skin issues whether you are prone to scarring or not.

Hair transplants are fairly traumatic to your scalp. Combine that with a poor surgeon and no amount of god tier skin genetics will protect you lol

54 minutes ago, Cyzkm said:

what factors determine the probability of getting a good result? Or is it because those grafts were spread over a smaller area whereas in the Reddit post the entire hairline was lowered.

The best factor in surgery success is surgeon skill level. But even then luck is a factor. Even the good surgeons have misses. 

Generally speaking, even a great surgeon cannot give 'end-satisfactory result' density just in 1 surgery

It is very common to need 2-3 surgeries to give great density

For low norwoods, I would say the density issue - followed by further hairloss - are the 2 most common reasons to need more surgery (not including getting botched, which is also sadly common and can completely your journey)

15 hours ago, Cyzkm said:

Why hairstyle would you recommend to hide the loss? 

a traditional side part. I suppose the non-parted side may have balding visible, but I really don't think it will be conspicuous to anyone but you

15 hours ago, Cyzkm said:

m concern would be that I end up with a horrid result like this 

(reddit link removed)

the example you showed is a common result for 1 HT even if you go to a good surgeon. Most guys need 2-3 HTs over their lifetime, and that is just if they have moderate MPB AND that all those surgeries go well

I do think you are qualified to begin your hair transplant journey if you can't cope otherwise, but you really shouldnt begin this journey if you can't accept that multiple hair transplants are part of the deal

Your young age and minimal loss mean you may be risking more than potentially gaining.

All these comments including the original post have been incorrect thus far

Dutasteride is simply a much stronger version of Finasteride

If you have zero sides on meds, there is no reason to not be on Dutasteride.

The thinking of "i am only a low norwood therefore I dont warrant dutasteride" is an illogical way of thinking

There is no mystery or secret weapon behind Dut. It is just a stronger version of Fin...

not to be a pessimist, but if the surgeon did such a poor extraction job, I do not have confidence that the other aspects of your surgery went well. 

Can you share frontal photos?

11 hours ago, asterix0 said:

It is crazy a guy with Nadal's resources and importance to keep his appearance did not go to a top clinic. He could have easily skipped the waiting list by paying more $ at any of the top doctors.

I agree.

Lets be completely real here, someone like Nadal could have surgery tomorrow with Konior, Zarev, Cuoto or any of the top dogs if he wanted to

Whenever I see mega rich/successful people with bad hair, i assume 

A) they dont care enough about it to do anything. Baldness doesnt affect their life (Bezos)

or 

B) they experience bad sexual side effects on meds and/or they have already lost so much hair that sadly all the money in the world still wouldnt be a good ROI for a hair transplant