Z--

45 minutes ago, Lior said:

Hi,
is anyone have experience with them? reviews on them?

they claim their DHI method is superior on FUE (faster recovery to head and to hair growth). 

and offer 2 days session to cover all the head.  

this is a big (maybe biggest) hair transplant network, and they have 75 clinics around the world.  

every time you see claims about DHI method superiority, RUN FAR AWAY.

On 4/22/2023 at 12:13 AM, stephcurry30 said:

I heard Konior's price is roughly a 35k flat fee regardless of FUT vs FUE and how mnay grafts! 

He charges a day rate regardless of FUT or FUE. It also isn't based on number of grafts. My second surgery was more expensive than the first, but involved less grafts.

Can confirm it isn't always the 35k flat-fee, however. I think he will base the rate on the complexity of the case and the amount of work necessary for that day.

12 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Interesting. Who are the 5 or so doctors you have in mind?

Konior, Nadimi, Hattengin, Shapiro, H&W. Personally, if you want the smallest scar, I’d opt for the first two only. The rest do larger sessions, but the trade-off is that you are more likely to get a wider scar. 

My estimate is that FUE only for 85% of men is best. If you’re Norwood 4 or below, I don’t see why you’d ever bother with FUT. 

FUT is best for younger men (sub 35) who may lose more future hair and need to maximize graft count (to get 1-2k additional lifetime grafts). This is probably generally going to be diffuse thinners, esp those not on meds. 

Even then, only 5 or so doctors worldwide are worth going to for the FUT scar. Personally I still feel FUT was the right call for me (it helps I can hide there scar at a 2.5 or so fade) but I think FUE is best for the vast majority. 

No one at €1 per graft is going to be good. At Norwood 5 if you pulled 4,000 grafts, you should expect at least double your budget with a good doctor. 
 

In Turkey, Pekiner is by far the best. If you can’t get him, go for Bicer. If not her then Turan. I wouldn’t go elsewhere. 

The sides are looking sparse, but the back looks feasible, but limited. 

I think it’s definitely a risk to proceed, but if a doctor thinks it’s feasible, you should defer to them. I’d be wary of any session over 2.5k grafts imo. I also think you need reasonable expectations because your donor will never get you anywhere near full coverage.

Whats your budget and goals? 

The faux outrage and crocodile tears by Americans because an Indian insulted his own country is quite embarrassing. Whatever it takes to defend a clinic that’s becoming more and more like a hairmill, I suppose. 

Can you imagine if a Turk said not to come to Turkey or referred to it as a third world country? Not one of you would bat an eye. Same deal with an El Salvadoran/Nigerian/Iraqi/etc. telling folks not to have a procedure in their respective countries. It’s not the same as an uneducated American who has never visited making the comment, esp if OP has history and roots in those places. 

OP may not live in India at this point and it’s hard to see why his comment is unreasonable. If I had a poor experience, certainly I’d rather have it locally instead of across the world. 

Nice - looks good for 1 month. Appears you’ve already gone through some shedding. Best of luck - it’s great you’re saving these because it’ll look a whole lot different in 5 months. 
 

As for @DeltaV - sorry about the experience. How have your calls with Sethi gone? Have your concerns been acknowledged or any solutions offered given the poor experience?

I think it’s way too soon to deem the transplant as a failure. I don’t buy the wait 12 months Eugenix keeps peddling, but if it still looks like this by month 6, then it’s probably a very bad sign and time to seek a repair surgeon. I’m sure you’re aware, but for some, baseline won’t be hit until around 5 months, so you’ve got plenty of time (and honestly it already looks better than baseline). Fingers crossed you get results that will make you happy. 

6 hours ago, Captain Haddock said:

Pretty shocking that Eugenix still continue to dish out below par, sub standard care to their patients even in the highest level, custom packages. It's a pretty careless hair mill looking to make as much as money/day at this point. 

What @DeltaV is alluding to when he says "third world country" - is not a take on the country itself, but the standard of care and ethics. You wouldn't have doctors abandoning you on the surgery table in the west. They will get sued. 

You cannot promise your patients a certain set of surgeons before a cosmetic procedure is booked, and then have some junior techs carry out your job and get away with it.

The lack of consumer awareness in India means Eugenix exploits his day in and day out to their advantage (as evidenced by multiple threads) - there's no proper redressal for those who are wronged, except for coming on forums like these and venting.

While I agree that it’s poor form that OP paid for the highest package and had minimal doctor involvement/techs working on him instead (which honestly ought to entitle him to a large refund) and that this is yet another poorly planned procedure from Eugenix (they need to get their act together - it’s virtually ASMED all over again), I don’t think it’s true that doctors don’t abandon you in the West without getting sued. 

There’s been at least one patient stating that former forum recommended Dr. D (Bay Area) wasn’t in the operating room for the majority of his procedure. I’ve seen that same claim regarding H&W twice now (Nordster and Qui Bono). There are many garbage doctors in the West who outsource the majority if not all surgery to techs, unfortunately. Look at the Colorado butcher who used his nurse to perform the full surgery a few years ago. It’s unfortunately more common than you’d expect. Truly a garbage industry. 

There’s only a handful of doctors worth visiting at this point. I can’t say Eugenix is one of them. 

Ahmad, Konior, Nadimi, and Pekiner.

You'll see that they generally charge by the session rather than graft count. Personally, if it's a surgery, I want the maximum doctor involvement. Techs are fine, so long as the role is very limited (e.g. counting grafts)

Going to push-back against FUT not being useful anymore, as someone that is very happy with his FUT scar and has done both FUT + FUE now...

I think it has it's place for young men who are higher Norwoods or folks who really need to maximize their lifetime grafts. That said, there are only maybe 3-5 doctors worldwide or so who I'd trust with an FUT scar (e.g. Konior, Hattengen, Nadimi, etc.). There's no point getting an FUT scar if it's going to be wide and ruin the ability to draw from hairs in the surrounding areas.

If you have beard grafts, they are supposed to work quite well in FUT scars.

Exquisite result. Love the density (particularly given the low graft count) and planning is top-tier.

29 minutes ago, Berik said:

Some of the victim blaming in this thread is hilarious. If this had been about Asli Tarcan or Cosmedica or Smile Hair Clinic etc. everyone would be screaming bloody murder. But anytime someone has a laughably poor result from one of the popular clinics recommended here (i.e. Eugenix, Hasson and Wong, Diep historically, etc) people question the ethics and integrity of that person. The result from the FUT scar is terrible and the claim that a technician was making incisions is certainly not preposterous and somewhat in line with another case we saw from this clinic where Dr. Hasson left before the operation was finished and failed to even pretend to care about the patient's experience. 

 

Completely agree. Way, way too many unacceptable results from certain forum darlings are defended on here. How many more people need to be botched before we have a serious discussion about certain doctor’s ethics…it is a taint on the integrity of this community that more serious discussions are not had in such cases. Took ages for a certain doctor to be removed. 

H&Ws rep is active here. Hope for posterity’s sake, he responds to these very serious claims. Imo - this is even worse than Nordster. Massive scar and nearly no growth. It’s a disaster plain and simple.

That said, it isn’t like the risks weren’t made known to QuiBono. For example, believe Dr. K warned him against another FUT. It’s a shame he didn’t heed that advice. I can only hope that Dr. W at least gave warning that scar widening was a possibility….

5 hours ago, mister_25 said:

If I'm not mistaken I believe I've seen this before. All the information in the thread shows extreme similarities to @wicker on his own thread. 

Wicker from what Melvin said was a previously banned user who has made many accounts and posts criticizing his transplants with Dr Konior, Dr Devroye and now Dr Wong. 

Also the structure of how he presented his reddit post seems very similar to the one that was made on Dr Konior on reddit. You can see someone posting it in the comments.

I'm very conflicted on this, because I believe that we have the right to know whether H&W are using technicians to do the incisions and who are doing them. But the way this poster has done his piece on a fresh account makes it look dishonest and especially the background when it comes to the suspicions that he is the same poster that posted his piece on Dr Konior. Something just doesnt seem right. Won't be able to know for now with the limited information we have.

I believe that the presentation of H&W is rather standard and not necessarily vague. But I feel like when you compare to the photos showed by Dr Feriduni they really do need to step up if they want to be regarded as a top tier clinic.

You're on the money - this is QuiBono, who has also gone by the aliases Wicker and Anotherbaldguy and now WoodenBlueberry. I'm actually very sad to see that this transplant has failed.

I will say that if a tech was as involved (as is alleged), that is a MASSIVE red flag and ought to be fully investigated. We had a similar case with Nordster -- though it was Dr. H rather than Dr. W in that case. If true, why are people paying top dollar for minimal doctor involvement at H&W? That's completely unacceptable. It's a very, very concerning pattern that many "top" clinics are cutting corners these days.

That said, I have some doubts about the QuiBono's credibility. The constant alts and thread deletions is shady - this must be the second H&W thread he's created (his original was under the Wicker account on Reddit and that was deleted for some reason...?). The same was true of his thread with Konior and Devroye. My impression of him is that he unfortunately has Buyer's Remorse and may be taking unnecessary risks (against potential doctor advice).

It's a shame. His original FUT scar was fantastic, but this new scar is awful. There's really no excuse for a scar this wide, unless he was warned that it was a possibility.

Zarev is top 3 in the world. Don’t miss the opportunity because you have to wait a bit. congrats on even getting a consult.

Ironically, there are very few clinics who repeat the same before (usually high indicating many flaws) and after lighting (usually low making the transplant look more full). Some often go out of their way to even hide showing certain parts of the results, esp the crown. Many doctors who engage in these practices are even recommended here…

We need more transparent doctors who use high quality cameras. 

Things look on track - glad most of the shock is recovered. Imo you prob will hit baseline around month 5 and then it’s growth from there to around month 6. 

Pekiner and Freitas are qualitatively better than the rest on your list imo. 

Sethi is the only one I’d consider from Eugenix, but at his raised price point there are safer and better options like Couto and Zarev, who you should very much consider. 

Absolutely stellar result and care. Super nice of them to make sure you'd made it through the illness.

On 3/27/2023 at 6:38 PM, GoliGoliGoli said:

This comment speaks to me. What NW would you say you currently are? 

Before my HT I was a NW2.5 on the hairline. But I had a big bald spot on my crown so was arguably NW4 overall depending on how you look at it. I decided to only get crown work done, and just accept the recession in the hairline for now because I can still live with it and style it. I didn't want to add a small amount of grafts now to the hairline, and then have to chase it if and when I recede further. 

Eventually, once the crown loss continues to expand, I'll go back for a 2nd HT and probably do the hairline at that time too.  But for now I'm pretty happy living with a NW2.5 hairline. Not saying this is right for everyone, but I think it's right for me, even if I'd love to have a NW1 hairline. 

Right before that transplant, I was a Norwood 6 with some hair in the frontal lock remaining, though my temples are fully receded too. Throughout my 20s, I'd seen myself as a NW 3V at worst (and had been diagnosed this way by a clinic). The loss was strictly limited to the crown, but once the hairline started thinning, I knew it was likely over. Around the same time, I sent photos to the best in the business that I'd been warned to wait some years, as my pattern will certainly be even worse. Lo and behold, after a couple years of waiting, I have no hair in my crown and midscalp, only some wispy hairs in the front.

I've since had my first transplant to get the front back into great shape and the midscalp is much better (and still improving monthly). I'm doing my crown-surgery to hopefully close the knot on this.

I think in my case, I'm the opposite of you, though the front always bothered me more. We ultimately planted behind the existing hairline, which will thin out with time, so even if I don't have a NW1 hairline, I'm happy like you with a NW2-2.5 hairline. Now that the front is done, the crowns nakedness is even more apparent and bothersome, which is why I need the second surgery.

Wish I'd spent less time worrying when I was a 3V. In retrospect, I looked great in those pictures. To get back to that shape, i'd be happy.

Best of luck!

Alif mabrook, Ahmad. First pass was very very good. Can’t wait to see this one over the line with the crown. 

There must be tens of thousands of clinics worldwide. To be a worthwhile clinic, it needs to have great results and ethical. 

Even a generous estimate, I wouldn’t say there are more than 50 clinics worth going to. Personally, if you have decent standards, only 25 or so are worth going to. 

To answer your question, less than 1%. 

That doesn’t look lisie 4K grafts….

Given that you’re at the 7 month mark, I’d reach out to reputable clinics and ask what can be done going forward. I’d avoid going to a Turkish mill like Smile going forward.

I’d have worried less when I was a lesser Norwood now that I know what true loss looks like.