Z--

Very, very impressive — certainly one of the best results here. I appreciate the transparency here as well. 

Highly advise you wait. You aren’t on meds and you’re losing hair. 25 is usually a baseline and only good if you’ve stabilized. Not the response you’ll want to hear, but any doctor worth their salt will probably advise you to wait until 30.

16 hours ago, Tony711 said:

At least he’s looking into this, but the first time he said he was busy because he had to take care of some issue at their office in Mumbai, now it’s the school so he wanted to wait till March.  But Melvin recommended to have someone else look into it and Dr Sethi managed to get another person involved. 

Unjustifiable behavior from Dr. Sethi. Understand that he may be a great person and an immensely talented surgeon, but this is not the behavior of an ethical doctor. In fact, this is more akin to a classic hair mill fobbing patients off. I said I’d withhold judgement until he had a chance to respond, but I’ve seen more than enough to conclude that the response is frankly awful based on your description and Melvin’s confirmation. 

You’ve already been strung around for months and there is no justifiable reason (excluding a genuine emergency) for a doctor who did the operation to have another doctor handle your case. He really can’t make time for one hour for a patient he did a poor job for? A patient who spent over $25,000? A high-risk patient he never should have taken on? Really? 

Seriously, compare this to the behavior of Couto or Konior who constantly communicate with their patients and offer a repair if, at the six month mark, the transplant is obviously not where it needs to be. 

Very disheartening to see this unethical behavior from an industry leader. Btw - they really should take down the video of your interview — it’s ridiculous they even interview folks before their 12 months exactly because a situation similar to yours might arise. 

7 hours ago, AlexMeister21 said:

Seems like I won't be getting the refund. After the phone call, Diep's clinic said they would only process refund if I delete all bad postings and if I sign a NDA. I stated I would only do this if they provide a full refund as opposed to just $2,500. Their response was rather vague but it seems like they are still only offering $2,500. 

I feel a bit relieved to be honest. I would've kept quiet for a full refund, but I think I'm going to need an outlet to vent my frustrations as I continue to understand the consequences of my two procedures with Diep as time goes on. Plus, I'd rather try to help others make a more informed decision on their choice of surgeon. Signing an NDA for such a small amount feels insulting and would hurt me on a spiritual level. 

Anyways, not much of an update, but thought it would be worth documenting for those doing their research on Diep. 

This is an absolute disgrace and glad you didn’t take their embarrassing offer. I’d imagine this isn’t the clinics first time making such an offer, and I wonder how many more bad results are out there… but that’s just speculating…

Honestly you deserve more than a full refund.   Have you decided on a repair clinic? 

I really don’t like the wait 12 months and assess narrative. It’s silly.

Good news is where they implemented grew well. Bad news is the empty space is very unlikely to grow more. 

Shame that what otherwise would have been a good result is marred with poor planning. This is now the 5th+ case on the forum alone indicating a rushed consult. Really hope in the future Eugenix contemplates giving patients more time to plan before rushing them into surgery. 

1 hour ago, HappyMan2021 said:

I can only speak for myself, but the 2x I have seen Mwamba for repairs, it was a flat rate of $4k for half day and $8k for a full day. And of course its likely going to be a multi-day procedure. 

Even with straightforward virgin scalps with 2k or less graft count, Mwamba seems to prefer making those a 2-day procedure. I mention this because I doubt any repair with him would just be a 1-day affair, since even his 'normal cases' are 2 days or more. 

Gotcha — that’s helpful, thank you!  

15 minutes ago, HappyMan2021 said:

 

Mwamba has different prices for virgin scalps vs repairs. No clue how much Bisanga charges but for Mwamba repairs its basically $4k per half day $8k for full day of repairs. And this may be a multiple day procedure. It likely will be, as Mwamba likes to take his time. So Mwamba is certainly not a cheap doctor in terms of repairs.

Also keep in mind the 21% VAT tax.

 

Does Mwamba charge a day rate now? I always thought it was by number of graft count (with it being double for a repair).

You're only 4 months in. Too early to assess, though growth seems fine at this stage. I'd just relax and evaluate after the 8 month mark as to whether this transplant is a success/failure.

Forget the £250 and move on. The damage they'd commit on your hair is far, far worse than that amount.

This is a nice hairline. Were all 5,000 grafts used for the frontal third? If crown work was conducted, would be helpful to see how the crown was handled (if the patient is comfortable with this).

How many grafts did you need to repair the 1,200 originally taken?

41 minutes ago, JoDimaggio22 said:

My biggest worry is scarring. Thought on Nadimi for fut? I don’t have much if any skin laxity, so I feel it may widen over time. But maybe they have a way to buffer a bad scar

Can't say I've seen an FUT case from her on here. She has a few on her Instagram though. They seem very good.

I'd have trust in her given that trust Konior puts in her and that she uses the same team, but recognize that patient testimony is more reassuring and a better indicator of that.

4 hours ago, mister_25 said:

Konior and H&W are veterans when it comes to FUT. Hattingen also gets good results.

Agreed. These three are top.

H&W/Hattingen can get more out of their strips -- like 3.5k+ grafts. Keep in mind H&W have phased out FUT in favor of FUE, and I think they only do the former in rare circumstances.

Konior's strips are nearly invisible and the thinnest, but I haven't seen him use them for a large session (I always see 3k or less) in the last couple years.

4 hours ago, JoDimaggio22 said:

Who has the best strip scars of the group?

Depends on your meaning of "best", as it'll depend on the number of grafts. If you want strip for a larger session go with the former two.  I'd read somewhere that with H&W, one is better for crown and the other for hairline, but can't confirm if that's true, so that may impact which of the two you select. They're a safe bet and you can get a fantastic large session with either of them.

Hattingen is by far the best money for value of the group. They're also no worse based on the results I've seen here. That said, they do have less results on HRN, so I'd check out other forums (ideally German) to get a better sense if they're the same quality.

If you want the narrowest and least detectable scar (with better emphasis on donor consideration), I'd say Konior.

For disclosure, I had a FUT scar with Konior and it isn't detectable even at a 2 fade -- I will be returning to do another strip and will document my journey after that procedure.

29 minutes ago, JoDimaggio22 said:

Do you think it is a dramatic difference between lifetime grafts available if fut is done first? It seems more are going to fue

2,000 - 3,000 according to some reputable surgeons who practice both.

Many go FUE because (i) it's less painful, (ii) more widely offered, (iii) aren't Norwood 6/7 and may not need the additional grafts; or (iv) want to avoid the scar.

Any updates mate?

This is a great scar and your 6 moth growth is awesome. I'm surprised you wanted 4,000 grafts. The 2,700 or you received has been used economically very well.

Congrats man!

I'm a strong believer of one patient per day and 100% doctor involvement if you are going to pay 20k+. I'd suggest sticking with Nadimi, who is both a wonderful surgeon and person.

As an aside, H&W are generally amongst the best, but until Nordster's case is properly addressed, I have some issues with their ethical handling when issues go wrong.

Edit: To be clear, my point on H&W applies only to Dr. Hasson. Haven't seen any recent ethical issues raised by any Dr. Wong patient.

49 minutes ago, AlexMeister21 said:

As some of you may know, I'm a former Dr. Diep patient who had about 4,000 grafts extracted and implanted by FUT into my frontal region to rebuild the hairline, but the results are unsatisfactory and I'm left with a wide scar.

Consulting with other clinics, I've been told that I may have about 4,000 - 5,000 grafts left in my donor. If I get my previous work by Diep repaired, it is estimated to take an additional 1,000 - 2,000 grafts, which would leave me with about 2,000 - 4,000 lifetime grafts left, depending on how many grafts are needed for repair.

I'm worried that if I go ahead with a repair, I wouldn't have enough grafts for my crown/top of head area, which has been gradually thinning for the past few years. Would 2,000 - 4,000 grafts even be enough to cover that region?

 

First, I'm really sorry to read about your experience with Diep. Fortunately, there's more than a few repair cases after a poor surgery from him who turned out stellar.

I'd consult with Konior (who has repaired multiple Diep cases here), Bisanga, Mwamba, Couto, or Pinto. Even if you don't ultimately opt to use them, I think having multiple opinions on your status/donor is invaluable.

If money isn't a concern, Konior no question. The rest are fantastic as well - Nadimi uses the same team as Konior and produces great results. Gabel and Wong are brilliant as well.

Yeah, this result isn't great - for 3,500 grafts all in the hairline, I'd expect it to be much thicker. Unfortunately, I think you'll need a repair/touch-up.

Bro I really don’t understand why you’re upset with Eugenix. Look at my previous posts, I’ve had some concerns with how they run their business, but this isn’t one of them. 

They’d asked you for blood tests and made clear you require them on multiple occasions. You seemed fine with it, and then you didn’t? You then started asking to speak to a manager about blood testing laws (which many doctors require, unfortunately).  If they had been an issue from the start, you had the ability to opt out of surgery early on. Recognize you booked flights first, but it’s on their terms and conditions and most accounts of experiences here mention requiring blood work…

Same deal with filming. They’d told you it was fine, but you wanted to argue it for some reason. 

There’s also a few instances where you ask to speak to a manager without telling the poor rep why. Probably freaked the guy out and it’s not particularly kind not to give him a chance to answer queries. 

Hair transplants are as much the patient selecting a doctor as it is a doctor selecting a patient. If I were a doctor and a patient spoke to my staff this way, I wouldn’t bother taking them. 

29 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

If his scalp is normal, then of course a repair free of cost is necessary. There’s no question that Dr. Sethi would do this, he’d probably even put him up at the farmhouse and provide him with food. I have no doubt about that. To me, that’s not the issue. I know Dr. Sethi will do the right thing. 

For me, the issue is surgery. I just don’t believe that’s the right solution. Now, I don’t know what other solutions there are, possibly a combination of things like I’ve mentioned. 

Refunds are not something that I advocate for because there are no money back guarantees. As patients were assuming this risk. The surgery may fail, if it’s within the surgeons control, then they need to repair it free of cost. If it’s outside of their control I would still expect them to treat it and then do a repair. But money back refunds are usually not an option. Of course, that’s something that is always dealt with on a patient to physician basis. 

I can accept the supposition that surgery may not be the best option. However, if that had been and remains the case, the doctor ought to have rejected the patient or make very clear the limitation of the surgery. 

From Toni’s post above, it seems like the limitations of hair restoration had not been made clear. I consider Sethi’s work as generally exceptional, but if Toni had been a poor candidate from the beginning then Dr. Sethi, as you mentioned, erroneously took the case. 

While I generally support repairs - esp. from ethical doctors - in such instances, I do believe a refund is warranted, especially if follow-up surgery will do more harm than good. 

I rarely ever see Sethi make mistakes or have poor yield (he’s clearly top-tier at Eugenix and worldwide), but how he handles those rare instances will dictate whether I and others consider him ethical going forward. 

Good luck mate! Hopefully those grafts go a long way. I think with that level of loss a second pass is going to be needed, but hopefully this provides you with a wonderful base. Keep us updated.

Your 4 months are fantastic bro. Wonderful to see Nadimi producing another exceptional result. 

We are fortunate to have her. When Konior retires to our collective detriment, it’s reassuring to know CHI will remain in ethical and great hands. 

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I'm not blaming him for not taking anti-androgens. You're taking what i'm saying out of context. Tony isn't to blame at all. What i'm saying is that he shouldn't get any additional surgeries/repairs, unless he has a biopsy and gets on antiandrogen for at least 6 months to see if his donor gets better. If you look at his photos it appears that his donor is affected by DHT. Again, in my opinion, he should have been denied for surgery (definitely not his fault).

I agree with the last part, except he should not get any additional surgery unless he is cleared for underlying conditions, and he should get on some sort of antiandrogen to see if his donor can improve. Otherwise, a repair in my opinion is not a good solution.

We both agree that there is very, very little growth and the patient is not at fault. Therefore our options are that it’s either an underlying issue (nothing to do but have the patient to fix it) OR the doctor has not succeeded (meaning the onus is on the doctor to provide an equitable solution). 

If a biopsy reveals that his scalp is normal, I’m hopeful that you’ll stand behind the statement that Dr. Sethi ought to provide a repair at no cost or a full refund.

Anything less is disgraceful imo. Every doctor I hold in highest regard has accepted responsibility before 12 months. Konior and Couto, for example, offered repairs at just 6 months of poor growth in recent cases. 

I hope Dr. Sethi provides a follow-up response and solutions soon. I’ll withhold my judgement of his ethics until then.