Greg_Swanson

How'd it end up mate?

It's a hard one for a couple of reasons. 

Firstly, there isn't a lot of peer-reviewed research on the efficacy of vitamins, and even when there is, it's hard for researchers to make a definitive assertion that 'x' causes/effects 'y'. This is mostly due to how many variables are at play when we look at bodily functions.

That being said, some studies have found certain vitamins/minerals to plausibly impact hair loss, and they are mostly safe at normal levels.

So, in conjunction with proven methods: fin, minox, etc, it's not unreasonable to assume they may actually help, and honestly, they probably won't hurt. So what have we got to lose?

43 minutes ago, Lennney said:

The guy's 28. This isn't the time, nor is it the appropriate forum to define the appropriate age. You come off extremely elitist. Look how far his fresh recipient goes, he clearly addressed a real issue. You should know as well as anyone here that finasteride will not recover his lost hairline, a HT will. He said he's going on fin now. He did his research for a good, forum recommended doc. He's clearly mature enough.

Great point, even great responders to fin virtually never grow their hair back in these regions, and often it will still recede to a point beyond the temples even on the drug. 

44 minutes ago, Addendum said:

Hi, the donor is still very thick. It was a FUT procedure.

Well those are good signs. FUT is easier to remain within the safe zone, and if your donor hair is okay, I doubt it's due to the donor hair miniaturizing.

I assume the area it was transplanted into was completely bald, which eliminates native hairs falling out.

I suppose those two factors could trigger some loss/a shed - I have also read that regarding protein, but I have not actually researched legitimate studies.

Maybe a visit to a dermatologist would be beneficial? 

1 hour ago, Addendum said:

Hi, I’ve just joined here.

I was a Norwood 6 and had a hair transplant 7 years ago. 

I was pleased with the result, and though I didn’t have enough hairs transplanted to cover the crown of my head, the front part of my head was fairly well covered. I would have had another HT later to add more density but couldn’t afford it.

In the past few weeks, I’ve noticed that the density of the transplanted hair has diminished, and I can see through to my scalp. I’m hoping that this is due to the telogen phase of the hair cycle rather than the transplanted hairs beginning to fall out permanently. I read that the telogen phase comes every 6 or 7 years so one is due for me around now.

In the past 5 months (until I discovered the hair loss) I had been using dry shampoo and also volumizing mouse on my hair, and maybe this has something to do with the hair loss.

Also I have been drinking whey protein shakes each day for about 8 months, and maybe this is also is connected to the hair loss. I read that whey protein can have negative affects on hair growth.

I don’t think the hair loss is due to seasonal shedding, as I haven’t noticed any such shedding to a great extent—just a few stray hairs now and then in the sink.

The current lack of density problem looks as if it could be more serious. I hope not.

I’d be grateful for any advice.

Hey mate,

How does the rest of your donor look? And was it a FUT, or FUE procedure? 

Wow, that looks amazing for 4 months!

2 hours ago, Leftwithrope said:

 

Take it from a 24 year old who's just gone from a Norwood 2A to a Norwood 1 from a single hair transplant. I'll tell you about the things I've overlooked in my quest to restore my hairline:

1. I probably could have avoided getting the HT if I had got on finasteride and minoxidil. As mentioned, I was a norwood 2A then, which means I had a wispy forelock and very receded temples. I was so afraid of the shedding phase and having to remain on drugs for the rest of my life that I did not consider how effective they could have been for me. I probably would have completely regrown my forelock and a small part of my temples, making me a norwood 1.8 or 2. 

7 months after my HT, I had results that I was happy with, but realised that there was a straight line of about an inch running across my head behind the transplanted area which contained mostly short and miniaturized hairs. Imagine my horror when I now had a full head of hair but was still receding from behind the transplants. Looking at pre-op photos, the hairs that got miniaturized mostly provided cosmetic coverage, but a more informed person would have been able to tell that they were not perfectly healthy terminal hairs, and so would be prone to shock loss. Shock loss I did get, and they came back thinner and weaker than before when they finally regrew. I am now on finasteride and soon, Minoxidil, in hopes of saving these miniaturized follicles. If I could restore them to terminal hairs, my transplant would then be considered an astounding success.

Shock loss WILL happen to weak hairs around the recipient sites (even if these hairs still provide cosmetic coverage), and a good surgeon will make sure you are aware of this risk and plan your transplant accordingly. If I had gotten on fin and minox before the surgery, the hairs around my transplant would probably have been strong enough to resist the trauma of the surgery.

2. Waiting for the transplants to grow out was hellish for me. I am by nature a neurotic person, so the anxieties of waiting for my transplant to grow out, coupled with the fear of having people find out really did a number on my mental health. I had extremely bad depressive phases and anxiety attacks because I actually looked worse off than before the transplant due to shock loss.

Consider how mentally resilient you are and make plans about how you are going to deal with others and yourself while waiting for the transplants to grow out. It is only around the 6th and 7th month when you will receive significant cosmetic coverage from your transplants. Having used to be a model, actor and college heartthrob was what made this journey so painful for me. Some people on this forum get by with honesty and vulnerability. It's up to how mentally resilient you think you are.

3. Hair transplant results will never look as good as when you still had hair. This is especially true for the hairline, which is immediately visible to everyone. Hair transplants are meant to give you a dense look, not actual density, so while it may look good in almost all social situations, it will actually feel different and less dense to the touch for you.

Frontal hair loss is usually treated by dense packing at the hairline and then reducing density as the surgeon moves back to conserve your donor. This means that preservation of the hair behind the transplanted area is extremely critical to an aesthetically pleasing result. You do not want a wall of hair at the front with weak hair behind it (try and imagine looking at a skateboard ramp from the side. Flat and weak hair that gradually gives rise to a wall of hair). 

4. Manage your expectations. I cannot emphasize the importance of this. I went into  my HT believing that my results are going to be like Armani patients (the original Armani lol) and that I'll regain a semblance of my former glory. Thinking back, this was probably just wishful thinking on my part because I was still in shock over my hair loss, and I wanted to convince myself that this would be the easiest path to getting my hair (and all the things associated with my handsome looks) back.

What I actually got was a result that nobody could tell was from a hair transplant, and which other surgeons whom I've met locally, call 'good work'. When I look in the mirror, I notice all the imperfections (differences in density between a natural hairline and a transplanted one, patches of lower density behind or around the hairline, how different lighting can affect the perception of density) but it seems like noone but me is bothered by this. 

Would I have gone ahead with my HT were I to have known all of these? Probably, but only because the area requiring transplantation would be a lot smaller and also because I could have stood a chance against shock loss.

In other words, Greg, only consider a HT when you have exhausted all your options of medical treatment, and when you are aware of what a hair transplant will do, can do, and cannot do for you.

All the best mate.

Hey man,

Thanks for the detailed response, and congrats on your op.

I've seen pics, and I honestly think your hair looks great. 

The shock-loss and the growing out phase sounds torturous. Like you, I too am pretty neurotic, and am prone to worrying about everything lol. I can only imagine how rough the first half a year is.

I'm currently on Fin, but am experiencing a dense shed, and have been for a couple of months. So, safe to say, there is probably a lot more miniturisation that I can see with the naked eye. 

It's something I feel like I need to do, or at least attempt, if nothing else but due to how much it already is impacting my day-to-day life.

Thanks heaps for the advice, mate - really appreciate it!
 

14 hours ago, Lennney said:

 

If nothing else, I could not have worded @Gabreille Nelson Mukhia  's answer better myself. 

At this point, you're not ready for a HT. It's fine, it just means you need more research. I'm your age, by the way, so it's not a knock on your maturity.

I've posted comments elsewhere, but I'm going to copy them here if it helps you. The first is the "why" and the second is the "how". They are in order! 

 

My advice for you: 

1. Try the finasteride. I didn't and wish I would have known about it in my early 20s. Maybe I could have delayed a HT.

2. It is important to put a value on a HT. What is it worth to you? Financial cost of procedure, time cost of awkward recovery period, emotional cost of missing events/ fielding awkward questions.

3. What do you stand to gain? Self confidence that will manifest in all social interactions. Removal of the anxiety/emotional burden of balding. If you're single, it'll open up more dating opportunities for you. (In my case) Not being age discriminated for entry level jobs post college. Whatever else applies to your case. It could well be that you have little benefit from a HT. It also could remove any self-imposed hair-loss barriers that open you up to the world. Weigh 2 vs 3.

4. Choose with conviction. Either way, own your decision and know it's best for you. If you get a HT, don't feel ashamed or embarrassed. It is the best choice for you. When people ask "why" I tell them, "I considered it for a long time, and I felt it was the right time for me. I've always been concerned about my hair loss. I am fortunate to be alive at a time when baldness is treatable with a permanent and "natural" (my own hair!) solution. I am happy to answer any questions you have." - The questions then don't focus on my choices (since I addressed them from the start) but focus on "does/did it hurt, How long is it good for, How long does it take to see results, How much?" By taking control of your situation, you take the power out of the tough questions. Your friends and family will support your decision if you present it as a decision that was best for you!

 

 

I have a strength in personal finance and budgeting. 

Before you jump in: Timing could cost you $X,xxx more or less depending on when you travel. Also know the travel costs involved. You have time when it sounds like $ is more of an issue. So be smart with your time to get the most value for your $:

1. Create a list of doctors. (You should) Prioritize the doctors who you see yourself using, and then add them to the list. Usually their websites will list a range. I don't recommend "shopping" docs at this point - asking what they will charge. Build your list first, I'll come back to this point.

2. If you're looking for value, look up the Countriesyou find the surgeons you wish to hire. Use google flights to explore destinations from your Country's airports (plural) to those country airports. Find the cheapest airport for that country, then find the cheapest time to fly - the month or time of year. You're not booking yet, you're only assembling a cost database for the 2-5 countries abroad you've found reputable doctors for. I can help if you don't understand this.

3. Now that you know what you should pay for the travel, find out what lodging and transport looks like in that country. How long do you plan on staying there? Estimate a per-day rate for each country.

*Personally, I am passionate about this, but I recommend traveling while you're there. Feel free to ignore this, because it is purely an opinion.

4. Now that you know when the best rates for travel are, plan to book a procedure during that time Next year. It will do four things: A. Allow you to save and ensure you can get that travel rate in the future (I can explain on the booking a travel plan theory later). B. Allow you to establish dialog and communication with a clinic where you feel confident in your doc, and set expectations on the procedure, talk about hairlines etc. C. It will Ensure that your doc is available when you want your procedure done and D. Allow you to save up some money/clear off some credit card balance etc. to afford the procedure/ pay off the airfare after you book it.

5. Now that you have the costs for travel, the narrowed list of surgeons, the open communication with those surgeons, ask the price. Build it into your budget. Travel + expenses while there + HT + Qualitatives (things to do if you travel, idk, but these are "what it's worth to you if all else is equal" among surgeons/total price). Then do your own cost analysis and get the best value. Value = benefits/costs.

Now: I mentioned FUT is cheaper than FUE. Just know that there are benefits to both, but know that there exist good surgeons who perform FUE at a cost which is less than other surgeon's FUT. Geography changes costs.

I can answer any questions you have. 

I do think it will be in your best interest to create a list of say, 20 docs you're at least interested in (who fall somewhat in your budget), then ask for opinions. If you don't do 80%+ of the doc research yourself, I think that you won't really have the confidence in the result, and may experience buyer's remorse. I hesitate to tell you with confidence what may be best for your cosmetic future.

 

 

Hey mate,

Firstly, thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply, it means a lot!!

I'm currently on Fin, and have been for a couple of years, seemed to slow the recession, but it's still occurring in the hairline. 

The biggest thing that you mentioned, is the value. 

As of now, it's really, really effecting so many aspects of my life. The things I'm avoiding are increasing, and it's hindering my decision making - as silly as that may sound. I'm about to graduate from a post-grad degree, in which I'm always in a lab, and can wear beanies, hats, and so on. This will be changing once I move into the industry, and I won't be able to hide my hair. 

Money is honestly not an issue. Like yourself, I have a pretty solid financial foundation and employment, so I have ample funds for anywhere as of this stage. Mind you, I wouldn't wager I'd need a huge op, so, even an expensive doc won't be doing a megasession. 

The thing that spooks me the most, is my family history. Hairloss is very, very extensive, and I guess I'm just concerned at how vulnerable even my donor may be to DHT. 

I've also got a list of docs, and have narrowed it down to a couple. At this stage, I'm trying to zero in on a doc who is really ethical, and will help me plan a conservative, and long-term approach. 

Everything you said makes perfect sense, so thanks heaps for that mate - I appreciate it. 

3 hours ago, Leftwithrope said:

Hey mate,

Woah your tablet contains min? Exactly how much min is in there? You mentioned a strong cessation of recession; did you manage to thicken up the hair follicles that were miniaturized? I just saw your thread and will share my opinion there.

Hey brother,

Yeah man, all up it contains: zinc, picolinate, biotin, tyrosine, vit-E, Zinc, fin 0.5mg, and minox 1mg.

Though, I'm really not sure how effective oral minox is. Admittedly, I haven't researched much about oral minoxidil. 

Derm has an in-house compound pharmacy, and the whole concoction is really quite cheap.

29 minutes ago, Upshall said:

Not really sure I understand what you are asking bud. The hairs in your safe zone will not going with or without finasteride. They are resistant no matter what. Finasterise is known to work better for crown and midscalp. For some reason it has a hard time keeping hold of the hairline 

And that's interesting, i didn't know that. 

That's what I'm experiencing now, the hairline loss.

46 minutes ago, Upshall said:

Not really sure I understand what you are asking bud. The hairs in your safe zone will not going with or without finasteride. They are resistant no matter what. Finasterise is known to work better for crown and midscalp. For some reason it has a hard time keeping hold of the hairline 

He probably worded it terribly, haha. 

But yeah, that makes sense if you get it. The DHT doesn't impact the hairs on the back, as they are already resistant.

23 hours ago, Shera said:

An ethical surgeon will look at your current situation and plan for the long term. At 28, I would personally say you have at least 2 surgeries in you if you intend to keep your hair well into your latter years.

There is always a small chance the transplant will fail, but you reduce that risks by going to a doctor and a team that is tried and trusted.

Myself and thousands of other patients have been advised of surgery through sharing photos, again it is a proven method that works. 

Not everyone gets over the "hump", some will ponder for years, whereas some will take that leap, get their hair fixed and move on. 

Like most things in life, eventually a decision has to be made..............

Hey Shera,

I believe you are correct, and I always thought I'd need 2, maybe 3, or ever more surgeries given my history. 

That is also true, I guess I was just worried about my donor being subject to miniturisation at some stage, due to my history.

Thanks for your advice.

On 5/15/2019 at 9:28 PM, CosmoKramer said:

Hi man,

Been in the same situation as I’m sure many here have been too.

I decided to go for it after a couple years of doing more detailed research on doctors, results and just how exactly the procedure is done from fue surgery YouTube videos to acclimate me to all the bloody gore and needles during the surgery, it helped ease my worry. Fear of the unknown is the worst so just jump into all the details so as not to be surprised and afraid.

I also followed many ht journeys on here as well as YouTube (thanks to Matt Dominance and his daily progress videos, they were so valuable, his honesty of his progress and experience I don’t think anyone else did as many daily progress videos as he)

Also, I’m a bit older than you and had already lost a fair amount and said to myself enough is enough of the procrastinating and started contacting clinics to get the ball rolling. You don’t have to rush it, as long as you initiate things and follow through you will get to the point of the day of your procedure and you will be very nervous but also very excited that the day is here finally.

Good Luck and hope you post about your procedure and progress when you are ready.

Hey Cosmo,

Thanks a lot, I appreciate the thoughts.

I've seen your results, and they honestly look great! Very happy for you : )

If/when I do, I will definitely keep everyone updated.

On 5/15/2019 at 9:18 PM, DrTBarghouthi said:

It is completely normal to feel in such a way. The main thing is to feel ready, be a suitable candidate and to do your research as to who should be doing your procedure. It is also important in your case to commit to maintenance therapy to avoid a great deal of progression. Once you're happy with that, there is no reason to be worried or concerned. If getting bald bothers you, then fixing it right is one of the most rewarding/satisfying things ever. 

Best of luck to you!

Thanks, Doctor, that's good advice. I am very conscious of taking a conservative, and long-term approach, I'm just not too sure what my hair will end up like. 

I'm having trouble committing to a transplant, and can't pull the trigger.

I'm a NW 3, 28 years old, and it's really affecting my life, but I'm so concerned with the "what if's".

What if the transplant fails, what if my recession progresses to the point that getting more transplants isn't an option, and so on. Every surgeon I've spoken to says I'm a candidate, but this is simply from a few photographs, with no way of knowing what the future holds.

How did everyone get over the hump, and overall, are you happy that you had the procedure?

It's such a weird place, to be so desperate to fix your hair, but still so cautious about the future.

Thanks all.

On 5/12/2019 at 3:58 PM, Leftwithrope said:

Hey Greg,

Are you also on minoxidil as well? You should probably speak to your doctor and find out if you should get on a higher dose of fin. What were your initial results with fin? Did you experience regrowth/thickening or did it only stop your MPB in its tracks? 

 

Hey mate,

Yeah I am. I am on a compound tablet which contains fin, minox, zinc, and some other vitamins, etc. 

My initial result with both seemed to be a pretty strong cessation of recession, and some minor, minor regrowth in the temples.

They still receded a little, so it didn't halt the MPB, just slowed it. Mind you, I know of people to which have had their MPB completely halted, so I think it's more person-to-person. 

I will be consulting with my derm in a week, and see what she thinks about upping it back to 1mg.

14 hours ago, Leftwithrope said:

I have started finasteride for 2 weeks and am wondering if it's okay to cut down to 0.5mg for cost-cutting measures. My main concerns are that the sudden reduction in dosage would result in adverse effects for my hair. Would appreciate if anyone could lend their input on this.

Thanks

Hey dude,

I had been on 1mg for about a year and a half, or so, and switched to .5mg for the past 6 months.

It's hard to say, but I think my recession progressed. I underwent a pretty heavy shed recently, and my temples receded further.

Now, this honestly could have had absolutely nothing to do with the change in dosage, and may have been external factors, my MPB progressing, and so on. Could it have impacted my hair? Sure, but I really cannot say.

I have read studies in which patients had experienced positive results as low as .2mg, so you can definitely still have a good result.

Hey mate, 

How did this one turn out?

Hope you are well.

27 minutes ago, Payam said:

Hey guys, here is a month 15 update for those still interested, really sorry for the delay, as I said I have been going through a rough patch in real life and have had to focus on that, I've been reading the forums though and other ASMED cases in particular.

I recently have had consultations with two of the worlds top clinics and have another one in August with another leading clinic, I have been quoted 1500 grafts to fix this by both, we will see what the third one says but I expect it to be similar. 

Photos are after a shower with hair blow dried. Here is a summary of the issues: 

Image 1 Left side: this is the same side as my videos, density is bad, so bad that my hair falls flat when I slick it that way as if I have a hole in my head, I cover this side by slicking over it as in image 2 and 3.

Image 2 Right side: density is better but not good enough, looks quite pluggy in person, the camera does make it look softer, this is the side I reveal when I style my hair as In image 2 and 3.

Image 3 front: growth was better here and I am relatively happy, pluggy due to doubles and triples but I can live with that, it's not noticeable if I feather my hair forward as in the picture. 

Crown: I will make a separate update with pictures for my crown, when wet it looks roughly like pre-op, when dry it looks better. I don't know what to expect in terms of cosmetic improvement with only 800 grafts here but I can at least make it look good with toppik which is good enough for me. 

The takeaway from my consultations were that:

1. I have fantastic hair quality, strength and caliber

2. There is nowhere near 2800 grafts growing in my frontal third. 

3. I have healed very nicely and my donor looks to have the capacity for a few thousand more grafts, also with my level of hairloss and its progression at 35 another procedure is not a big risk.

So there you have it, I'm not going to respond to the ASMED patients gloating about their great results, I think this type of behavior really speaks for itself. 

As for me deliberately trying to disparage the clinic, I only ask you to look at the recent results from this clinic and ask yourself if you with a clear conscience could recommend ASMED to a friend or family member.

To the other guys with lackluster results from this clinic, pm me if you want to talk or want advice on your options looking forward, thanks fellas. 

Hey mate,

Thanks for keeping with it, and staying with the updates.

Firstly, don't pay attention to those who need to gloat on another's post, simply to let the world know they're happy with their result.

Completely irrelevant, and borderline insecure.

Secondly, it's actually not too bad at all. We are our own harshest critic, and I think you still look good. Of course it could be better, but the good this is that one more procedure to tighten things up, and you will be on to a real winner.

All the best!

49 minutes ago, roscopeeco78 said:

He should be concerned about a linear scar.   I had 4k grafts done by hasson seven years ago and 80% have now fallen out.  Who knows why that happened, but we don't talk much about grafts falling out over time.   If that happens and you have a depleted donor and the only option is to cut hair really short, you are left with the bad decision for everyone to see.

with his results now, he should forget about a HT.  

This is something I always think about.

What if I have surgery, and the grafts eventually fall out, then I want to shave my head, but no longer can because of the scarring.

51 minutes ago, LaserCap said:

When Merck did their studies, they found 1mg was what was needed to maintain hair retention properties. So, Propecia as a 1mg tab came into the market.  The problem arised when Merk lost the patent and doctors started giving out prescriptions as a 5mg tab and asking patients to quarter it.  This would be as close as they would get to the 1 mg. So here are a couple of issues,

First, the tab does not come pre-scored.  This means that you are not getting 1mg daily.  The dosage is varying daily. Some days you may be getting more and some days less.  Is this an issue? Perhaps. (In my view you are still getting something.  And, with the blessing of the doctor).

When the subject of side effects come, I find doctors scrambling. This is typically because they are truly trying to help the patient,  They''ll suggest taking the tab every other day, in some cases every third day, and sometimes just laying off the med and resuming some time later.

I seem to recall a doctor saying that the effect of the med lasts 24 hours? Don't quote me on this, and perhaps doctors that participate in the forum can give their view, but if this was the case why not prescribe it differently.  Taking the med every other day then does not become so far fetched.  

Lastly, the power of the mind.  If I was to give you a piece of candy and tell you that you would experience a side effect, do you think you would?  If you are quartering the pill, and we know the amount of medication is changing daily, what....taking just a bit more or less would cause you to experience different things?  Here is a suggestion.....

Many believe there is more testosterone with the medication, than without.  (Apparently the body then figures it out and regulates itself, so this is very short lived). So, when I take it, (and have been doing for the last 20 years), I think I am going to perform better.  So far I've never had an issue. And, if you never did, you never will.  

I do have a question.  For how long have you been taking the medication?  When did you start experiencing all these different effects?  If you say...withing the last 2 weeks...then OK, talk to your doctor.  If years, still talk to the doctor, but I would start checking on what else could be causing the issue.  Have you had blood work and a physical?  

 

 

I've also heard the 24 hour timing, Laser.

Sorry, maybe I didn't make it clear, but I have no sides.

I only dropped the dosage based on my derms recommendation, as she is of the thought that the less hormonal interference, the better. 

You're right I believe, I have always just tried to use mind over matter, and had no sides issues.

I was more-so wondering how much we need to take for it to be effective, but I suppose this could be person-to-person.

Thanks Laser

Hey all,

For fellow fin users, what dosage are you taking?

I have been on the drug for just over a couple of years, and was taking 1mg per day as part of a compound medication.

Recently, my dermatologist suggested we try and lower the dosage to .5mg, as apparently lower dosages yield similar efficacy in research studies.

My hair seems to have shed/regressed a bit since then, but I cannot say for certain that it was the finasteride change.

I'm just wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar? Or noticed different things on different dosages?

Thanks all.

Hey everyone,

Is it just me, or is H&W producing a lot more FUE procedures nowadays?

I may not have all the data, but from memory, the vast majority of their procedures over 2000 grafts were always FUT.

Now, I mostly, almost always see H&W procedures as FUE.

Does anyone know why this may be? Or if I am correct?

Just curious,

Cheers.

Hey all,

Considering the donor comes from the back of ones head, does this mean it will be different to their native front?

As in, would this potentially limit the styling for transplanted hair? Or is it all the same?

I ask as I rarely see patients with long hair, unless it is slicked back.

Thanks all

10 minutes ago, Etika said:

In FUE Hair Transplant, hair follicle as grafts are extracted from the donor area. So, FUE allows the donor area to retail fullness. It is less invasive and can be done in one sitting with quicker recovery time in just a few days. Hence it is highly recommended and most reliable treatment for hair loss.

The most reliable treatment for hair loss is the treatment that gives you the best results. FUT typically gives a better yield, but it is all dependent on the surgeon. Nothing that you are saying has any backing.