Surfarosa

Amazing work. His scar is excellent too ? It looks about a few inches long to get 2000+ graphs ?

The harsh truth that many gloss over is that finasteride is very likely MUCH more important than what any HT can bring to the table in the long run

Alleluia - I don't even feel a HT is practical ever without Finasteride. Even with Fin my jury is still out until I see the last 10 years results, 10-20 years from now. It's simple math. 6-7000 graphs to cover an area where 30,000+ once covered ?

If grafts are placed in an area with native hair, then shockloss can happen. Propecia is supposed to help prevent this but to what degree I don't know.

Propecia did not seem to have impact on my shock loss .... I was on it for years b4 and I still shocked pretty bad.

In my experience shock loss can happen anywhere close to where any cutting or planting was done. My sides shocked all the way down to my side burns and back about 2 inches making my sides (safe zone areas) look totally see through. They filled back in but the pattern of shock-loss seemed so bizarre and out of whack it freaked me the f out. I think it came simply from the implants that where done down both sides but the shock went back really far. So if you had implants that far back it would not seem out there at all that you had some shock in the vertex to me.

Then your doc is the best bet for sure. Maybe you are in that small %age. Good luck man !

Huge suggestion - do not stop taking the Finasteride. A HT is quite an emotional trip and at 3 months you are in one of the worst stages. Mate - your self-esteem may well just be in the toilet right now. Your big head might be interferring with your little one After a year I'd see how you feel - let you body and mind adjust. There is a strange and unexplainable phenomenon that once you start rocking a new hairline your old fella starts to get his groove mysteriously back on.

I'm no doctor or psychologist but I'd wager that you are not one of the tiny minority that suffers sexual side effects. Read some EpilepticSceptic stuff (or better still PM him) - he will tell you that his only regret in life was stopping Finasteride - he is now back on it and can't wait to get his new H&W hair grown out.

I'm on Avodart after 10 years on Fin. Avodart is the monster when it comes to sexual side effects and it has done nothing but good for me.

Keep the faith !

With that many graphs there is virtually no down time. I had 500 done with FUT and it was like a trip to the dentists. Did it on Friday was out and about on Saturday, back at work Monday.

I couldn't find my own scar.

What really bothers you ? I would say that you will likely respond well to the Propecia as your crown is not too far gone and Propecia works best when the hair is thinning vs. bald. Would you be happy with maintaining where you are ?

What I'm suggesting is getting your hair goals established before speaking to a doc. Then you can see if you can achieve those goals. IMO you are a candidate and your hair looks just like mine in terms of color, texture and loss pattern. Your hair type makes for very natural results but it does not get the super dense results you may observe with some patients.

At 45 & after a thorough scalp analysis your doctor should be pretty confident in where you are heading. If Propecia does not stabilize you, you may wish to try its bigger meaner brother........Avodart.

8 months, yeah relax and wait for the results.....!!!!!LoL!!!

Mp96 - did you have a point ?

Fantastic "soft" but dense hairline......

Mahhong - You are completely correct on all fronts. I think the best things forum members can bring to this community are open minds, new ideas, experiences and their current skill sets brought to the table for the good of the network. Within the members minds you have a small army of experts that if coordinated and lead correctly and coherently, can make changes and improvements that benfit the whole food chain from patients to top doctors and clinics (ooopss it does alienate the rip off merchants, posers & morally bankrupt D-bags - sorry).

The coalition is of course the starting point for this and the coalition is Pat's brainchild. We really need to hear from him.

In my opinion, those that "can" should try to protect those that "cannot". The strong should protect the weak. Every time I see a young guy about to take the plunge into what will only be a deep pit of heart ache - my stomach turns.

It's simply about honesty. I had this conversation with Mike Ferko yesterday in Beverly Hills. Tell me what you are going to do, write it down and stand by it - simple. Transparency and reporting will achieve more than I have even cared to highlight as I don't want to kill the big idea by introducing it's little brothers and sisters. Good ideas breed more good ideas....

I just PM'd Jotronic to see if he will add to this thread ..... he's a very forward thinking guy !

Nice one RCWest - there you have it Tisab ....... maybe that twice the day mess can be alleviated. Applying before bed is no big deal but that stuff in your hair during the day is gross.

15% minoxidil can draw a large crowd if you only had to use it once a day as upposed to the twice a day 5%

I switched form 2 X per day with 5% minox to 1 X per day = zero difference. I think the twice a day thing is known as a "retail accelerator" in the world of marketeers

Thanks for this post Jotronic. Had a great meeting with Mike today prompted by your post. Keep fighting the good fight !

Thanks all for solid thoughtful responses.

Ditto on the crown. It's fine.

 

What I'm surprised about however is that no one caught on to this...

 

"I have had a couple doctors suggest starting some crown work but it scares the hell out of me as I'm really concerned that I've already had 3000 single hair graphs in my hairline."

 

3000 single hair graphs? How does this happen assuming you had a strip in 2002? Back then maybe two doctors were doing FUE and neither were doing 3000 grafts. Hell, in 2002 very few strip doctors were doing 3000 grafts, us being among them.

I've had 3 HTs Jotronic (all strip). BTW - enjoyed meeting your buddy in LA today. He suggested you and I would have some interesting conversations !

Glad to see you are not going to Bosley! I found this site to late before they hacked me up. Do not limit yourself to Florida if you can help it. There are very talented surgeons all over that will do a great job!! If you are a HT virgin I would actually recommend against it all together but if you have already had work done that do your research before you take the plunge.

Dakota - why would recommend against HT surgery - even with a top doc ?

All - Just back from a meeting in LA with a consultant from Hasson & Wong. This topic came up (as I feel strongly about it and thought I'd garner some more professional opinion - see I'm doing my bit guys - I am not one to hunt from the lodge) & he fully agreed that the reports could be easily made available & that patients HAVE to get as involved in their restoration as they possibly can, if they expect to win the HT crap shoot. He also highlighted that hell will likely freeze over before you get a bunch of HT docs to agree on anything. Matt you were right and the collective groan is a generous analogy.

Some of his stories were highly illustrative of what I have long suspected about this industry. It's tiny penetration (less that 2%) of its potential market is no accident - it fully deserves those pathetic numbers.

Back to the docs.......

Some of them still wish the internet did not exist. But thanks to the internet, we are in an era of patient and consumer power & the HTN is a living testament to that. However, in business & nature things either evolve or they die. Transparency and reporting are so obvious to me that it is quite painful for me to look at this industry with much interest. If nature did not make me part of this community I think I'd be less than casually interested. However, I think I have at least one more surgery in me on the next 20 years and I'd hope by the time I have it that things will have improved. I'm also very passionate about protecting our younger brothers from having to spend the 100's of hours researching this stuff. I also think we owe it to those that "took it in the head" (I'm trying to be as polite as possible here) and acted as guinea pigs to get us to where we are today to push forward.

Surfarosa,

 

I've taken the liberty of moving your post to Open Hair Loss Topics from the Welcome section. It should get a lot more views now.

 

All the best,

Thanks David ! I'm not sure how you select where its posted !

We make such reports for every our patient and keep it in our database, so if the patient comes for the next hair transplant surgery we can see improvements and changes on his head. If patient requests this report we provide it.

Please see above from the original thread. My point is made here perfectly by Taliz. This shows that what I am suggesting is viewed by a top clinic as best practice. More importantly it can and is being done.

Saying that it is too much hassle & time consuming is really quite scary & lowers the bar of this community. Are you expectations so low that you fear to ask for the best practice to be applied to you?

Guys this analysis is being done. If it is not then you are nuts to have surgery. Would you prefer to be involved in the decisions and analysis regarding your future appearance ? You obviously care a huge amount or you would not be on this forum. I would also add that you have the best idea "in your own head" as to what is happening "on your head". You have looked at it for more hours over more years than any clinic will ever do.

If you are going to just be a passenger don't moan when you end up somewhere less than optimal.

Hi Louise - what kind of density is that ? Must be pretty high and rightly so for a gentlemen at 44 with very moderate hair-loss. I like these cases of taking a good candidate and safely but aggressively addressing his goals.

Matt thanks for your response !

As you're playing devil's advocate I'll swing with a straight bat in saying I couldn't disagree with your more. As you said, doctors already make these considerations and determinations (they should not even pick up a freakin scalpel if they have not).

The notion that it is too time consuming to actually write it down or that it may be too much of a hassle is insane. This is a patients only shot at addressing this condition in a satisfactory way - they have a right to the best data available. Will there be a certain error level and +/- factor to these measures? Sure there will (and that is acceptable) but that is the same in many fields of medicine & surgery.

This type of accountability and objectivity will only drive more patients to the top docs and purge the rip-off merchants out of the business. I also believe it will help drive standards even higher, this benefits everyone in the food chain. It is good business as well as the right thing to do. Why anyone would not want to move the discussions (this is a discussion board right - so I can assume we are having lots & lots of discussions) from subjective opinion to a more objective data driven platform is a question we should ask.

The only way this type of standardized reporting ever happens is when it is driven by the operators themselves or by a governing body. That takes someone stepping forward and being prepared to add another dimension (and yes this means more work but in this case it's really not much) in the name of furthering the standards of their industry.

I have built, bought and sold corporations in very, very competitive global industries. Leaders of any industry want to be benchmarked as it highlights their superiority and elevates their brand as "best in class". Average Joe's are not a fan of this "transparency mindset". They prefer to invest in their sales and marketing efforts which love............you guessed it - subjective opinion.

In my experience, getting bogged down in exactly what should be measured & reported against is somewhat of a waste of time. Only the docs themselves can determine what is a) relevant and b) practical. Once the reporting is in place, it's much easier to add and improve. The saying goes that you can't steer a parked car so get it rolling first.

This industry is small but the potential market for it is absolutely huge. The industries old reputation is disgusting and it deserves to be. However, there are fantastic docs and great support staff out there now (I include you in this Matt - I think you are great). Bad reputation + huge potential market + some excellent players = opportunity to do more good. When a company or industry gets a bad wrap, the best defense (and this is proven not an opinion) is always to pursue higher levels of transparency with their customers.

The only real question (as we know it can be done) is do patients want it ?

I'd personally be happy to pay extra for it.

I'd love to hear a doctors thoughts here. Maybe you could as Dr. Rahl what he thinks?

Thanks for your answer Dr. Simmons I will contact you via your website as I am really interested in a proper evaluation. I have never been satisfied with the evaluations I have had - including from several coalition doctors.

Hairthere - how do I get to the pictures you are referring to ?

Thanks