swim

I like that Thana. I never knew you were. I like watching you guys on TV.I admire gamblers spirit....Frustrated when the winnings are small, and bored when they are big...I don't know why ...i am not rich...I guess money has a dark side, like the moon, which no one can see without going there I am happy for you, congratulations

Not as passionate as you may think. I don't use the drug. I never thought I am difficult to follow but, if you say so,ok.I have nothing to add. What I "tried" to say, I did. You could summarize it in this: We do not miss what we lack ( hair) nearly as much as what we are deprived of (SRD5A2,it is a gene ). What I mean is,when you lost something,you are sad,maybe upset.When something is taken away from you,when you had your eyes closed,you are pissed Nobody misses an eye at the back of his head, but everyone would feel deprived if he lost one eye in front. It is the taking away SRD5A2(or inhibiting,)that could upset us more, (only if we knew ,and were told what it is) than the not having hair in the first place.

Bill, When giving an advice about medical condition, dilemma concerning medical question, using prescription drugs, etc... one has to earn the right to be wrong. Two doctors may disagree about should one (example young man) use a drug, lets say finasteride.One might be right and the other wrong. But the wrong one has earned his right to give that young man his opinion about matter that concerns medical problem, for he has studied the subject earnestly and at length. And the right to be wrong in this instance, can be won only this way. Because when someone, like Mr.Serious, tells people http://hair-restoration-info.c...=307103642#307103642 Things like this: Or this: Or this and so on??¦. Then Bill such young man, will follow Mr.Serious advice, seriously. But you don't have a problem with that. You have a problem with me .Right?

The doctors should make that effort, when someone asks medical questions, like joebronson did. The links are not mixed. Check the last link, the one that has the gov. in its address. It is from the U.S. National library of medicine. You want cheese? You see, in the old days, before TV, newspapers ,and internet, people went to aunt Sally and uncle Serious (another Serious,not you),to learn the last news and seek advices. This days, every info is readily available. You don't like to read? Who am I related to? And who am not related to? What if i asked you are you related to Mickey mouse?That is not cool right?So,I am not asking you that. I am not going to waste my time with you any more. Joebronson,read the links, they come from credible web sites. And decide your self what is worth what to you.

My screen name is swim. Not swim36. I too can be creative in changing your screen name into various alternatives. Would you like that? And I posted links, so who wants can read what people smarter and more informed,than me and ,I think you, on that subject,wrote about it. I leave to the readers, to judge did I hijack the thread.

DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is not a gene at all. It's an active metabolite. ------------------------------------------- John, I mean Swim36, I mean Swim... please just re-read my previous post. It's all in there. I'm not trying to "prove" anything like you say. I don't have to... It's already proved, and the information is out there, accessible to all, and reviewed by scientific organizations. Your whole speech is based on the absence of DHT, when in reality DHT is still present all over your blood stream / organs / and body tissues, even AFTER finasteride has done its job. Yes it is lowered to various extents, but not absent at all. For instance, there is "more or less" 36-40% DHT still present in the scalp after finasteride is metabolized (in the scalp of a new patient), and though there is no study to corroborate this (and I doubt there will be any soon), this percentage of DHT presence in the scalp should gradually augment after a while, even with consistent finasteride use. Fortunately for us hair loss sufferers, finasteride is quite a safe drug. And it works for a "majority" of people. It is prescribed by 100% of top HT doctors I know, and most of them will hesitate or even refuse to perform surgery on certain people if they don't start finasteride PRIOR to surgery (I'm talking about people with a low to medium degree of hairloss, and to advanced diffuse thinning cases). But like with any treatments, there is risks involved (as small as they can be) and I respect the fact that some people (including yourself) think that these risks are not worthy for them. From your logic, it seems that anything that inhibits something in your body is not designed by nature and should be therefore avoided. Most medications work by either inhibiting, augmenting, or transforming subtle components of our complex body structure. Even the food you eat inhibits, augments or transforms subtle components of your body structure. In that sense, what seems to be your logic, "completely fails to be logical". No,you are wrong.SRD5A2 is a gene. http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene=srd5a2 You say I know that. I never said otherwise. I said You are the second group. More power to you and good luck. you say No.I said it is a bad trade,in my opinion.If it would be necessary to take in order to save my life it would be a good trade.For more hair,i don't think so. I am not the only one who thinks that way.And,it is not cool to jump on everybody that expresses doubts and concern to use this drug,and say that their concern is not valid. Leave to the doctors to answer such questions. You say Ok,In that sense yes.But that is only YOUR sense,not mine.I have to eat in order to survive.I don't have to mess with hormones and gene in order to have more hair,and I don't. It would be nice to tell people what exactly type 2 isoenzyme of 5a-reductase ,does in our bodies,so they can make informed decision to inhibit it for the cost of hair,or not.

What is Finasteride http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride What is SRD5A2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha_reductase what is inhibit http://education.yahoo.com/ref...ionary/entry/inhibit what is to block in medical terminology http://education.yahoo.com/ref...ctionary/entry/block (look under no.16) What then, is so strange, to you ,when I say,??? (By the way, have it your way, INHIBIT, not BLOCK.) And, when you say, I quote you : Does not that same type 2 isoenzyme of 5a-reductase,catalyze the conversion of the male sex hormone testosterone into the more potent androgen, dihydrotestosterone. And Is it true that Deficiencies in this gene can result in male pseudohermaphroditism? To me, to mess with this gene for more hair is a bad trade. And to others too .So, when you say, I quote you ....... You, in my opinion, with this great analogy, try to make joebronson,to look like guy who is so paranoid not to get the girl pregnant, so he double packs condoms ,although, it is common knowledge that one condom reduces the chances of that almost to null. But, in my opinion, you don't have ANY success in that. He is not worried that something will not be blocked, or inhibited,( that would be the sperm in your analogy),but on the contrary, he is worried that something will be blocked, or inhibited ,and, he is quite right, it will (that would of course be,like you said your self,type 2 isoenzyme of 5a-reductase ). Because, you told us that with the numbers you presented your self. You try to prove something with preponderance of evidence, using smiling faces and words like dude ,whilst in your own presentation, you prove (to me), beyond reasonable doubt, TO ME, that on the contrary, in significant numbers, Finasteride will selectively inhibit the type 2 isoenzyme of 5a-reductase,and that fact alone, for me (or to me) is a side effect. I don't want to mess with hormones and genes that play key role in my health and well-being ,whatever it was designed by nature to do, from behavioral perspective ... from an anatomical or biological perspective.

Hey,Serious Who is the judge of that?That more hair,is superior to mitigation of estrogen's effects in men. You? And,to you, is the fact that finasteride blocks the good properties of DHT as well,imaginary?

That was for Serious. I wish to say something upon the present subject here, so obvious that no apology will, I hope, be expected from me for giving my opinion . I will not enter a detailed statistics. For the point I wish to make those numbers are irrelevant. Because few particular objections have been made, to the opposition to it. However, those consist only of reasoning's, some of little application, and others totally distinct from the point in question.Let us have no objections to the facts.But ,let us read the facts,first. To me, in order to dispel any doubts which might still be entertained, one thing is urged upon us for mutual examination. Does Propecia block effects of DHT? If yes,does DHT have only the properties of causing male pattern hair loss? If no, is it also crucial to virilization and is necessary to mitigate estrogen's effects in men? If yes, then this is the point ??“ what one considers side effect? Loosing the effect of virilization and controlling the estrogen in the body, in men? Or, Loosing the effect of virilization and controlling the estrogen in the body, in men, to the extend that it becomes noticeable and affects sexual performance, significantly enough, that we notice it? If it is the first, to me Propecia has side effect ??¦..all the time. If it is the second, it is up to the individual using it to ascertain the cons and pros. To some, to sacrifice DHT effect of virilization and controlling the estrogen in the body might not be side effect. To some, it will.

Serious, I presume you suggest we can not go to a higher authority than those statistic numbers you quote. So, be it. Let me ask you then, where did you get those statistic numbers? Then after you found the source, please check the words that they use, and the words that you use. Are those words the same? Do they state that such and such number (percentage) 'noticed' and 'reported' adverse side effects? Or, that such and such number (percentage) 'had' adverse side effects? What can be necessary consequence of you mixing the notion of someone noticed and reported libido decrease and someone actually had his libido decrease ? I suppose that many things can happen ,even changes in our bodies, but we do not notice them until (and NOT before then that moment) they become significant changes. Look at the numbers that you use : So ,to all those man the drug worked. You say so, am I right serious? So, if that is the case, how did the drug cause that positive effect on all those people? By blocking the DHT hormone. Am I right? If so, in all those statistically high numbers, the drug successfully blocked the DHT hormone. Now, we know that DHT is 'guilty' of causing male pattern hair loss and prostate problems. Sure, it is. But,it is crucial to virilization and is necessary to mitigate estrogen's effects in men as well. Now because it was successfully blocked, by propecia use, in the numbers you presented to us, that crucial ingredient, that mitigates estrogen's effects in men ,is GONE. So it will certainly, using the same principle ,by blocking The DHT ,block the good sides of DHT as well as the bad. Will that blocking be significant enough for one to notice the change within his body, that is another story. Serious, something existing (like a change in our body),and noticing that something is existing (those changes) ARE Two different, and separate things.

Be Happy You may not like my text here, but what I will tell you is undisputed fact. One of the most serious mistake we can make is to confuse the thing we call 'intelligence' with another thing called 'judgment'. The two do not always, or necessarily, go together, because many persons with high general intelligence have notoriously poor judgment. Relax, I don't mean you. I don't imply anything about you. I am telling you this has been researched and it is a fact. Many scientist know that ,generally speaking,(random choice) the larger the group the lower the intelligence level. When you expand a group of one hundred into a thousand, the intelligence curve flattens for the group as a whole (fact),Because of this phenomenon, one may say, that this kind of forum, which is very large by numbers, is unworkable and self ??“defeating??¦because how can we expect to rule ourselves rationally and wisely? But intelligence is not related directly to judgment as such!_ a fact that maybe is known to many wife's of many intellectual man. For instance, it has also been proven by extensive psychological tests that the larger the group, THE BETTER THE JUDGEMENT!If you ask dozen persons to estimate the weight of a telephone, for example, the answers will vary widely, and the median answer is likely to be quite inaccurate. But, if you ask100 persons, and then double that again??¦and again??¦by the time you asked a thousand persons, the excesses on both sides have canceled each other out, and the median answer will be uncannily accurate. So, what all the history with your posts here and all replies to them, have to do with anything? 25 Surgeries man?! I feel for you. I actually in a way have the same problem. Solve it easy. Don't let that be a problem to you or bother you any more.Say enough! Take care man

Joe, you're pushing very far. The real percentage of such cases must be "extremely" low, but not completely impossible. There is a risk with any treatments. [END QUOTE] I disagree. He is not pushing far. I think he very well placed the question. Maybe you did not notice? He said, " do people notice the side effects, quit the drug before they get too serious, only to notice that the side effects get worse afterwards? So, conclusion, one can only know about will he or not get the side effects ,only after he gets them,(if he gets them) and they are very serious.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g...ed&pubmedid=17026771 Read this.It might be of use to you. Swim

Be Happy Open your mind and don't let fear guide you. The little rope that holds you over the pit of hell much as one holds a spider or some loathsome insect over the fire, is in YOUR HANDS. Pull your self together, over the pit and let go of the fear. YOU look upon your self as worthy of nothing else but to be cast in that fire? Why? Because of some scars? It is your hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. Do you WANT to suffer or TO AWAKE again in this world after you closed your eyes,25 times before? Your pain moves me to speak to you now, because I am familiar with it. It is the fear. Fear of what will people say of your scars, that makes you sad? Why? Most people think most highly of the person with courage. You are very worthy gentleman in many regards and you over magnify your misfortune. Don't blame the doctor now. Open your mind. He told what he can and what he can't do for you. That is called being straight forward. He doesn't want to indulge you with illusions. That is commendable characteristic in a doctor. Not bad, but good .Bad would be to him to try to shut your eyes against a painful truth Be happy, are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes see not, and having ears hear not the things which so clearly concern their temporal (by all means) salvation? Don't let the fear guide you. people will understand and accept you as you are. They will respect and love you as you are. Give them that chance. Much worse things in life happen to good people. I know that first hand as I witnessed the horrors of war. You are not alone and remember it is your hand that holds you over the pit

Thank you Dr.Simmons So regarding Shanti question, am I wrong to conclude that whoever puts the graft in the slit, has to position the graft (orient the graft?) to curl the right way? In other words, in a case of patient with curly hair, not only the angle of the slit determines which direction the hair will curl, but also in which way the graft was positioned, or oriented, by whoever put it in the slit?

Dear Dr.Simmons What if your patient has curly hair? How do you manage to keep the direction of the transplanted hair curl(I understand the angulation's part) ,when it grows out of the skin?

What if the guy has curly hair? Is the direction of the curl genetically determined/programmed? If so, if the follicle /hair placed in the recipient, inside the skin, follow the direction of the slit/tunnel, what happens when gets out? It will curl in a direction as programmed before was taken outside the donor,which might be other than the direction of the slit? No? I think patients don't care about the direction of the hair in the tunnel, inside the skin. They care what direction hair takes when is out....

Me too...I feel the same. It is not yet available for commercial use anyway. I just wanted to put it on the radar for the people here

I didn't want to aid the doctor nor the plaintiff. I said more or less what Dr.Lindsey said. Bill contacted me and told me that my conduct of removing them was not proper. I see his point and I leave it up to him to restore or not my posts. I give him my consent to do so if he thinks that is in the interest of this forum. I shall avoid controversial topics in future and swim up stream. My regards Swim

http://www.renovo.com/content.asp?c_id=9 Hope for victims with scars?Maybe comming soon?Has anyone heard about this trial? http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00469235

Quote from D'Holbach, The System of Nature "From whence it may be seen, that the same necessity which regulates the physical, also regulates the moral world, in which every thing is in consequence submitted to fatality. Man, in running over, frequently without his own knowledge, often in despite of himself, the route which nature has marked out for him, resembles a swimmer who is obliged to follow the current that carries him along: he believes himself a free agent, because he sometimes consents, sometimes does not consent, to glide with the stream, which, notwithstanding, always hurries him forward; he believes himself the master of his condition, because he is obliged to use his arms under the fear of sinking. Volentem ducunt fata, nolentem trahunt. Senec. The false ideas he has formed to himself upon free agency, are in general thus founded: there are certain events which he judges necessary; either because he sees that they are effects constantly and invariably linked to certain causes, which nothing seems to prevent; or because he believes he has discovered the chain of causes and effects that is put in play to produce those events: whilst he contemplates as contingent other events of whose causes he is ignorant, and with whose mode of acting he is unacquainted: but in nature, where every thing is connected by one common bond, there exists no effect without a cause. In the moral as well as in the physical world, every thing that happens is a necessary consequence of causes, either visible or concealed, which are of necessity obliged to act after their peculiar essences. In man, free agency is nothing more than necessity contained within himself."

On the contrary, hiartransplant is NOT the only chance that you have to finally live your life ! That is my opinion of course. I can't project my self in your shoes, although, like almost everyone else here I understand your desire, we all do, that is why we are here and not on another site. You have to do research about cons and pros of HT. You would have to do that specially because you are young and with advanced hair loss. It is opinion of many, that such combination is NOT good for hair transplant .

.

.

.