californian

Ok, I agree with your diagnosis on my psychological status. I also appreciate your frankness. ((just one correction for you: professor, not preffesor ) Did you also bring this issue (i.e photography tricks) up to his attention, because we still don't see any comments or explanation from them regarding the issue. Your house is just 10-15 mins away from his clinic, but one week passed.

Wow, how can it be countable with such accuracy? Maybe you have 9748 grafts available over your donor areas. Anyway, if all 9600 will be removed, did they tell you what will be left over there and how can you make sure that the remaining will be enough for donor area closure? Good transformation, the pre-op picture is bright and close-up, but the post-op one is far and darker without flash. I appreciate the post-op, no problem, but the pre-op should have been taken under the same conditions. We all know top area coverage is not as successful as the front area coverage, because there is a whirlpool pattern over crown. Every community member will appreciate if you provide post-ops showing top areas as you did with the pre-ops. The bright one. Please take it with the same lighting conditions.

I see that you accepted the other advertorial tricks, but you don't agree on the body hairs and PRP. Let's see.. I think that PRP is %100 gimmick and scam. Body HT is around %80 fraud and it is economically helpful for the physicians. (There may be very rare but forgivable use of body HT) Now, tell me your ideas about body HT. Please show me a few examples from this forum in which body hairs were used and results were successful. See: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/170774-4200-fue-dr-villnow-800-body-hair.html This is a really good example to justify for BHT. But, why was the patient was gone after his very eager start. Maybe he killed his surgeon before committing suicide ) Please do not bring unproved, false and unfinished results like this. I keep my rights to harshly criticize. I am searching for PRP now. We will discuss. But David - the moderator censors the threads if the thread has gone off topic. This is advertorial thread of Dr. Koray, we should respect his rights. We need to move. I will arrange and invite you. Just let me know if you are in pursuance of truth or wanna continue to live in your Matrix..

Yeah, yeah, maybe.. Maybe it is just easier to persuade the patient to charge more per graft, maybe his technicians are not so experienced to complete the procedure in one day, maybe he likes to torture patients by putting them through the same surgery again. maybe this, maybe that. No offense. Just possibilities.. Do you know that 2-3 days of consecutive surgeries are still one session of hair transplant? You are misleading the community. It does not increase the maximum number of grafts that can be transplanted (search and learn why). Many coalition doctors, respected surgeons in this community, who use FUT technique can transfer many more number of grafts (4000-5000) in one day of surgery. You still need clues? For other issues you seem to forget, I will remind them to you later, you take some rest for now.. PS. David, What is Bill's opinion to open the thread that you closed recently.

Are you sure you are native in English too? This thread was started by Dr. Koray and his team, why do they need your attention? Don't they follow up their own threads and reply member's questions? See Ko has asked many times: "Why does this clinic keep posting wet before photos?" Bring it up their urgent attention, send mail, run, we are all waiting....

What about the donor area scar(s) after 2nd strip procedure, one scar (removing the previous one in the 2nd session) or 2 scars one under the other? Could you show the after photos of the donor area shaved or with very short haircut ? Everybody wonders about the scars after 2 sessions of FUT operation to compare it with the scar of two session of FUE procedures. It will be very informative for the community. You are one of the best for tricophytic closure of strip wounds.

You are very disrespectful! Of course, you have a right to make criticism or comments on my criticism/comments. But how dare you to speak like this!!! Yes, I did read, that's why I commented honestly. However, you should accept that hair loss area is small, and almost all coalition physicians of this network would get better or more coverage for all hair loss area by just transplanting more than 2600 grafts just in one session. So why need 2nd? If 2 sessions of hair transplant can provide full coverage in this relatively small area, the result still should be rated as modest after 2nd, and no need to say that this is impressive. If one session were provide much better coverage now, it might be rated as impressive. What about my criticism about hairline over the temples? What do you think about that? Where are the other cheerleaders? You are still in the same business? Promoting expensive HT, defeating inexpensive ones? What is the meaning of expensive and cheap (inexpensive to be polite) for you? What is the meaning of these words for a homeless, for a student, for a blue-collar worker with whole life savings of $20.000? Maybe this dirty cheap one is very expensive in his country? Did you research? Did you learn?? Did you ask? Did you read my recent post about these matters? http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/176771-dr-koray-erdogan-2820-grafts-fue.html Above, do you understand???

Infamous marketing tactics.. The methods that are employed by physicians to get more customers or more commonly trying to make more money from less patients... - PRP and Mesotherapy (and other so-called mesotherapy gimmicks) - any naming other than FUT, manuel FUE, and MicroFUE (micromotor FUE) (strip is another name for FUT) - 2-3 days of consecutive surgery - so-called robotic surgery - guarantee papers - actually any kind of guarantee words - implanting body hairs - stem-cell hair transplant, anything about stem cells - all kind of vitamins shampoos, compounds that assert better hair growth (except propecia and minoxidil) - asserting new hair growth over donor areas - stupid marketing campaigns (refer a friend and get cashback. This is health, they are not selling an iPhone to you) - many more and so it goes............ Hair transplant is a treatment from physicians, anything applies to surgeries applies to HT surgeries as well, however it is practically turning out to be like a marketing business from business people instead of doctors..

Here is an example of a modest, average, expected but particularly an honest result. Congratulations to the physician for his honest presentation. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/176811-dr-mike-beehner%3B-3265-grafts%3B-patient-low-donor-density.html

Now, modest but honest result as expected from a type 3 hair loss patient with incomplete hair thinning. Modest and expected result because the area is not totally bald, contain many original hairs, and post op still show some hair thinning over transplant areas. Honest because there is no important advertorial tricks on photographs, transplant area hair density is less from the neighbor areas as it should be. Just one criticism; although the patient has grade 4 hair loss (as stated by Dr. Erdogan), he received hair transplant like a patient with grade 2-3 hair loss.- only over front areas. He looks he needs some hair transplant for the upper middle section. And although the hairline is good, transplantation over temple areas may produce some unnatural appearance as the patient becomes older when the original hairs over temple area become thinner and start receding (going back), since the transplanted hairs will stay thicker in front of this thin hairs.. Dr.Erdogan, by many examples provided clear evidences that FUE technique is effective and as good as FUT technique for NW type 1-3 slight degree of hair losses. Now, it is time he provides some examples for type 6-7 severe grade of hair losses ( and complete baldness not incomplete ones) to compare the results from the other surgeons, so we can compare if FUE is better or not for this severe hair lossses: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/176771-dr-koray-erdogan-2820-grafts-fue.html

Yes, the hairs in pre-op pictures are wet, but above all they are cut short (compared to post-ops) and are widely scattered. Even, the ordinary people with no serious hair loss would show some degree of hair thinning if his photos were taken under the same conditions i.e wet, scattered short-cut hairs. The degree of hair loss was much less, but it was deliberately tried to be shown more severe in the pre-ops. Even the non-transplanted areas over middle front parts show better hair density after transplant. Most of the thick hairs growing after transplant are original hairs, there are some empty areas (less density) under them, covered by thinner hairs coming from hair transplant. If this results were so impressive, why would he need 2000 grafts more? The optical illusion, photographic work (although the photos are real) is mostly on the pre-ops, less in the post-ops. So the changes are remarkable. Congrats. But should this case deserve criticism for that?? I don't think so. There is so much competition among the clinics and doctors in the hair transplant business. And the patients' demands are increasing more and more. New competitors are coming each day to the area, and the techniques are developing so rapidly, infamous marketing tactics are everywhere. Costs are increasing, prices are reducing. Hard to survive. Here is a nice collection by 1978 Matt, very senior member of network. (from another thread) Impressive results, but how can we be sure? There are always some photographic manipulations, more or less, one way or another. They are concealing something, sometimes do not show the pictures of 1st day of post-op that shows what surgeon has really done at surgery, or they are reluctant to provide the age of the patients or the picture of donor areas showing what the patients have lost to gain this result. A smart guy Aaron1234 summarized our thinkings, suspicions, but never dared to reveal, afraid to be blamed to be a spoilsport. Anyway, does this critisms humiliate, lower the value of these great works. Absolutely not. All results are real, sucsessful, and have changed the patients' lives. The techniques are flawless, and the changes are far beyond our best expectations. We must admire all and it is proved that, hair transplant is one and only effective way of treatment for hair loss, baldness. And every surgeon should be respected for providing such gratifying results. Given that all physicians have a right to promote themselves, should we accuse the physicians who use some kind of photographic tricks in their sample pictures? Should they be blamed of showing us only the perfect results and adding some manipulations in pictures. Absolutely not, we have no rights to do this, just because even we, the patients who post the results do the same, intentionally, or unintentionally. Patients who are satisfied with the transplant, glad with his physicians use the same tricks in a positive way. Patients who have some problems with their physicians use it in the negative way (taking close-ups with the hairs scattered, flashed pictures). All we need is to find supporters; supporters of our psychology, good or bad. Now, what is the practical value of this forgivable photographic tricks? We patients always want to see just the perfect results, want to see one session of hair transplant for grade 7 hair loss covering the whole head like the artificial hairs, never wanna see usual and expected results. We do not know or consider potentials of the donor areas, racial differences, skin characteristics, psychological distresses, much more and all affecting the results of hair transplant and the results may be so variable after implantation of same number of the grafts to the same surface area even by the same physician. We want more grafts, more coverage, more density, lower hairline. So the FUT surgeons are now cutting 25-30 cm long strips extending from one temple to another to remove much more grafts to compete with the FUE surgeons (15X2 cm FUT strips give only 1500 grafts on average, 1200-2000 range), and FUE surgeons are going to use other body hairs, although they know body hairs are generally useless, inconsistent, problematic, good for nothing but just torturing patients- just to give more and more numbers, just to fulfill the endless desires of us. (if not economical reasons by charging per graft:))) We all know, any hair transplant operation may produce dissatisfied patient, depending so many variables among the characteristics of the patients. Even the best HT surgeons have occasionally unsatisfying results, the surgeon is the same, so why do the results change?? Still, why do physicians need to use this advertorial tricks and avoid to give some occasional modest results?? Providing only the perfect, wonderful, amazing, shocking, incredible, unbelievable results, and applying some photographic tricks increase the expectations of the patients and may create unrealistic demands. The physicians should promote themselves, but doing in this way, they shoot themselves in the foot as well. Physicians create patients who are much more demanding and have unrealistic expectations about the results, and when patients get honest, modest, usual, ordinary or unexceptional results, they get disappointed and shocked, feel much more distress, this may even causes retardation of hair growth. Impressive, wow results fill this network, where are the others? In other forums?? So, Why??

I was doing kind of a research on Google. I found this graph FUE vs. FUT comparison by years - Google

Why didn't you delete the duplicate posts by so-called poster, Roimirka, which were obviously copied and pasted to multiple threads?

Peterjs, You are the point. Do you see anywhere else in this forum the same kind of talk and posts about any other network member? http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/175931-istanbul-turkey-dr-maral-clinic-my-review-experience-july-2014-a-3.html sj14 - Junior Member - New Real Hair Club Member Peterjs, You keep recommending Dr Aslan, but I have yet to see any of his patients and results. When doing a search I found this https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16214 The links you provide doesn't help much, 55 year old man who is a NW V1 trying to cover a whole area with 4000 or less who has FUE several times in the pass. I don't think that's a good example. How do you explain results like this? Let me guess? By trying to find as much negative in it as you can? With 20 something post already, it is obvious you have only come here to bash certain Drs and promote others. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...-dr-maral.html http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...al-clinic.html You keep copying and pasting the same stuff over and over again in the forums bashing Dr. Maral and promoting Dr. Aslan, which until this day I still haven't seen his results. Do you have anything that shows what Dr. Aslan has done? If your sole purpose is to do nothing but that then there must be a motive behind your actions, or (AHAM) trolling? Now, can you explain why you deleted your recent posts from oldsnake's and mycrowngone's threads? I want your honest answer, do not deny, easy to prove for me that you did this and "sj14" also could prove this. Now it is time to prove that your are a real man....just be honest for the first time, or you know the latest reply from "sj14" to you. I think you do not want to see it again. )))

peterjs; I have checked all the links you mentioned and I have got some useful information for you, all of them are from your links. FYI. I am a junior in this website, but make sure that I am very senior on HT issues, as a patient as well as a physician. Enjoy (many thanks to all folks for contributing such accurate information here, their efforts, knowledge and agility makes this transplant network number:1 in the world, thanks much again, but special thanks to roimirka) http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...turkey-17.html bunnyman -Member -Veteran Real Hair Club Member I am sorry, but this post and the other one by roimirka appears to be posts by llvlludassar under a different/new account - even the quality of English is the same. I am quite sure it is an emotional rant by llvlludassar, just trying to save face under a new name. A quick check of the IP Address of these posts by the moderators should confirm that the two accounts are the same. What is more important is that these posts from a completely new member to the Forum are very defamatory to Dr Maral without any basis whatsoever. This adds nothing to the quality of this Forum, nor to the general discussion about the HT result of llvlludassar. For the interests of civility, if nothing else, the moderators should remove these silly posts and remove riomirka's account unless he wants to abide by the rules of this forum! http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...r-maral-7.html'>http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...r-maral-7.html another Member - Veteran Real Hair Club Member - Starter of the thread I think my HT is not failed and as we can see there is a positive result. Of course I do notice that the result is not good enough with 4000 grafts but as we know every gene is different and there are so many factors from the patient's side also that can affect the final result. roimirka Member-Veteran Real Hair Club Member 4000 grafts should have given you far better result friend. chrisdav -Senior Member- Follicular Salvation Club Member I think a surgeon is far better targeting a smaller area with 4000 grafts on higher Norwood patients instead of trying to spread them over the entire surface area as coverage is just too light in my opinion. I have seen some recommended surgeons do it and I question their reasoning for it. Dr Maral should have just tried to hit the frontal to midsection in one surgery and then target another area with a second surgery and possibly reinforce the first surgery if necessary. A transplanted crown alone can eat up a high percentage of a donor supply and look thin. Khali Member - Veteran Real Hair Club Member This is not a hair transplant failure. His 4000 grafts have been spread all over his scalp. home1212 Member-Veteran Real Hair Club Member I think chrisdav hit it on the head .. JimmyNeutron -Senior Member -Hard Core Real Hair Club Member I understand that having friends that underwent successful HT's with Dr Maral influenced your choice, Hesediel Member-Veteran Real Hair Club Member The success of a hair transplant is not only the new hair rate, but also the patient's perception of himself/herself after a long enough period of time. Some patients are going to be happy even with a objective mediocre result. Why? Because it will still be an improvement compared to before the HT. Some patients will never be satisfied even if the surgery would be close to 100% success and they end up with a head full of hair. Why? Because they had different expectations which most of the times are the reflex of different inner issues, mostly psychological (appearence dysphoria). Thank you kindly for sharing your experience with Dr. Maral. There's been some bashing on him lately but I still believe we can appreciate this result. another Member - Veteran Real Hair Club Member -Starter of the thread I don't want to start blaming anyone for the result because as I said there are so many factors from the patient's side as well that can affect the final result. roimirka Member-Veteran Real Hair Club Member I don't know why ANOTHER is not blaming dr maral Khali Member -Veteran Real Hair Club Member All these superstar transplant have candidates with high density, good donors, and they cover areas which are much smaller. This transplant will require a second procedure with 3000 more grafts. Again 4000 is expanded to in a large area. 1966kph -Senior Member-Hard Core Real Hair Club Member I remember a case of Dr Madhu's a few years ago who had very similar results and i've also seen a case similar from Hasson and Wong a few years ago. It happens sometimes and even to the best of docs and if you have never seen poor or mediocre results from recommended docs you have not researched enough. fredifredo Member-Veteran Real Hair Club Member I agree with what "Chrisdav" says about the target of a 1st FUE when you start FUE once you've reached a high Norwood : The surgeon definetly knows it will need at least 2 surgeries to get a good result. Why don't they hit one area , then the other later, to get a good density ? I suppose the question is about the "natural result" for patients when going back to work, and the pressure of patients. We all dream of having the best covering result on our entire head, right after the 1st FUE. petersj -Junior Member-Veteran Real Hair Club Member I already have decided not to go to Dr. Maral. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...ml#post2396724 UK43 -Senior Member -Hard Core Real Hair Club Member -Starter of the thread Well it's almost 14 months since my 3200 FUE HT at the Maral clinic in Turkey. Firstly I can't believe that the time has passed so quickly! With my results I think that this is as good as it gets for me so I have decided that this will be my final post I hope you enjoyed my story and pictures and have found it useful. 25,000 views at the time of writing this, which is incredible! Finally I can say that I am really happy with my results and I am glad that I went for a FUE HT. johnboy71 -Senior Member -Mentor Real Hair Club Member Wow thats impressive ! Both your latest pictures and your blog view count ! UK43 -Senior Member -Hard Core Real Hair Club Member I am still following with interest the threads of everyone who has been to the Maral clinic since me. Hhere are some compilation pictures showing the first 24 days followed by a monthly progress to how my hair is looking now, which is 18 months since I had a my 3200 FUE. I am happy with the overall results. I don't take any medication and I don't intend on having a second HT. :-) BaldCoot -Junior Member Hello UK43, Just a note to thank you very much for your excellent thread and write-up of your experience with Dr Maral. It was because of your thread on this forum that I ended up going to Dr Maral myself last summer/autumn for a HT. I have just started a thread showing my results after 7 months (pics showing results after 6 months here): Norwood 7 HT with Dr Maral, Istanbul - Forum By and for Hair Loss Patients UK43 -Senior Member -Hard Core Real Hair Club Member -Starter of the thread 30,000 views of my HT blog, incredible... roimirka -Member -Veteran Real Hair Club Member this excellent thread did help dr maral to get customers and give them poor result and UK43 was the delivery man i hope he is happy with self and his own result http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...r-maral-7.html Bill - Managing Publisher -Administrator -Follicular Genie roimirka, I've done some investigating on your account and see that practically every time you post, you have a new IP address. While dynamic IP addresses are not uncommon, a single ISP typically provides dynamic IP addresses that all revolve around a similar location. In your case, your IP addresses are all over the world. For instance, I checked 4 of your IP addresses and they range from the Netherlands, to Romania, to France to California. The above indicates that you are spoofing your IP address and/or using a proxy to keep your real location and identity hidden. This is in violation of our terms of service. Many members of this community have reported your posts and believe you are the same poster lvlludassar simply hiding behind another name. While we have no proof of that, proxying and/or spoofing IP address is in violation of our terms of service. Thus, before posting anything else, I expect you to send me a private message with a compelling explanation as to why your IP addresses change with every post and are bound to random locations across the globe.

KO, and peterjs: I have found one similar patient to abcd0000 http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171595-my-repair-almost-complete-w-pics.html Although, he seems to have had about 6800 grafts in 5 sessions, (5000 grafts from beard ???) I can accept this for comparison. Anyways, the patient does not provide any pre-op pictures, even dark ones. I just wonder how much coverage does he have after 5 sessions. He should have much better coverage than abcd0000, since abcd0000 had 4800 grafts, much less compared with 6800. KO, will you please go to this thread and ask his pre-op and post-op pictures showing the upper areas, top crown areas and back of his head showing the donor areas? Dark or bright, doesn't matter. Then we can compare. Please insist on the pictures, since you are very sensitive about honesty. I am really excited to see the pictures, as well.

Check the list (Full list of the best hair transplant surgeons) of coalition / recommended / paying members of this forum. Dr. Maral is not in the list. Maybe that's the reason That being said, you don't need bright and close-up pictures. The ones that are under daylight conditions without the flash is more accurate to show the reality (like the ones abcd0000 provided in his thread), nobody has a flash in his eyes. KO, (and 1978matt) maybe, you can help peterjs to find such a thread; I look forward to seeing a single case like abcd000, just one example will be enough for me, then we can further discuss in details. I will accept dark pictures regardless of brightness, just the coverage will be enough (wanna see all head pictures of pre-operation, immediate post-operation and after post-operation) Before helping peterjs, you might wanna check this page then you might think again:)) http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/175931-istanbul-turkey-dr-maral-clinic-my-review-experience-july-2014-a-3.html

dude, this is awesome. great work

Dude, please check the thread created by abcd0000. here is the link.. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/172287-my-progress-dr-maral.html It seems abcd0000 have already provided all the pictures of his head under his thread, back of his head is also visible in the pictures. His pre-operation pictures also shows that he had grade 6-7 hair loss with total baldness. Besides, the donor areas look very weak. 4800 grafts transferred by Maral can be seen by the immediate post operation pictures after a single session of HT surgery. The results he posted now are, 1 year post operation pictures of a person who used to have very severe hair loss. Don't compare apples and oranges. Anyone who is experienced in HT would suggest a grade 5-7 patient a second session after a year, in case they want more density on their head. However, by looking at his pictures, I think he has great results, and I am not even sure that he needs another session. More importantly, abcd000 started posting his pictures immediately after the surgery, when the results were unclear, showing his honesty. Now, search the forum, and provide me a single example of a patient with such severe hair loss (similar to abcd000 case, almost total baldness) with reduced donor areas, putting his pictures from the beginning, clearly showing the immediate post-operation pictures providing information what had been done at the surgery, and showing the result of just one session of HT after a year. Then we can compare the results. Most doctors don't accept such patients, for God's sake.. Do not try to compare low grade(1-3) hair losses with perfect donor areas, or grade 4-5 hair losses after 2-3 true sessions of hair transplant (not 2-4 days of consecutive surgeries, this is still one session of hair transplant as you know) This forum is already full of those and, it would be misleading the new members of the forum who tries to find the best and honest hair transplant clinic with affordable & competitive prices. I look forward to seeing a similar case of abcd000, just one example will be enough for me, then we can further discuss in details.