elicash80

robc, Congrats it's looking good. Keep up the posting.

This is literally one of the best results I have ever seen. You have movie star hair. Although I think it is infeasible for me to ever achieve a hairline like that, it makes me want to try. Come on hair cloning.

Phoenix, Thanks for the report. Please keep it going, I will be very interested to see how it comes along in the next few months. After quite a bit of research and many consultations, I am scheduling an appointment with Dr. Vories very soon and will write up a report of my own.

Researched and met with both myself. I think Cooley has the edge on FUT (Dr. Vories does not even do it) and he gets incredible results and Dr. Vories has the edge on FUE (has gotten so good at this specialty) and he also gets incredible results. Both docs are masters, but I would decide based on FUT or FUE.

I know you are tired of this Bill, but I have been a member for a while. Every time I press, send _____ a private message, a blank box comes up and I can not do anything with that box. What do I need to do?

Brockstar that's great. Please let me know how it goes. It would be great for me and a help to the community if you could do a detailed report with pics. If this is unfeasible, at least respond in this thread after the surgery. Good Luck!

Due to my medical condition I have chosen to stay inside the U.S. I was willing to travel outside of the U.S. as I assumed international doctors may have previously worked on someone with an organ transplant (kidney), but they all refused treatment because of it. I have instead chosen to go with Dr. Mike Vories in Charlotte. I traveled to a handful of other docs around Tennessee, but Dr. Vories (locked in a great price on FUE before 2016) was the best combination of value and what I am looking for. The surgery is in May and I will be making a new thread before and after the surgery. I have just been extremely busy lately. 2016 is my year to accomplish many things I put off for a long time and while it is going great, it does not give me a lot of time to get on here. Please drop me a line if you went to Dr. Vories with any pointers. He seems like a great doc, I guess I'll see.

Thanks for all the posts. I am going to try and address all that are relevant to this thread. @Sean Yes, I am concerned about post-op care quite a bit, but you are right, these surgeons are screened and then recommended. I wonder how much of the screening process for recommendations is based on results compared to other parts of the practice such as post op care. I know people travel for medical tourism often and a doc. recommended by this forum understands the implications if a member gets something like a staph infection after a procedure. @Fortune You make a good point. If the cost was close AND I heard a few horror stories about these international doc's (maybe I am just not digging enough) post op care, I would continue to save and wait. With that said, many of the European docs. are quite reasonable and some of the recommended Indian docs. have been doing this a long time and are members of the IAHRS, such as Dr. Bhatti. @ready4 That is actually 2.5 Euros which equals $2.80 per graft. At the $3-$4 range I could go to a top tier US surgeon a few hours from where I live. I am looking in the $1-$2 range. @Hidden - Do you have a gmail account? I would be glad to share. @Scar5 - Amazing post. Yes this all seems like trying to compare the beauty of a woman or the artistry of a painting. It can be somewhat objective, but a lot of it is subjective and there are a ton of factors we simply can not know. Personally if I can have a doc. remove and insert all the grafts himself/herself for a low price, I would rather go that option. Yes there are probably some techs out there who are better than doctors (more things we will never know or can not quantify), but it gives me a bit more piece of mind, even if it is an illusion. I am looking for the same things the mods look for when they recommend a doc. the only difference being is that cost is a factor for me. @Scar5 - This FUT vs FUE business is exhausting some times for a newbie not knowing which way to go. I hear quite a bit that FUT yields more and if you start with FUT, you can get more grafts in the long run. I wish there was a definitive answer to this (and yes this is even too subjective to put an answer on because so many factors are involved). Dr. Cooley does both procedures and his rep. who has been doing this a long time said strip is typically a higher yield. She could have tried to sell me on the more expensive procedure, but she did not. Also Dr. Vories, who does FUE, said that he can only promise a 80% yield* *(This is because there are so many smokers in the south which lead to lower yield, but still this is just not a good number to me coming from the doc. himself). If I had above average density I might take that 80% or higher gamble, but with limited hair I like the 95-98% yield I have been reading about with strip. I do not want to pour gasoline on the FUT vs FUE war, my main concern right now is inexpensive recommended docs that have consistent results with little to no complaints. Good point you made - I am going to do a lot more screening on the actual procedure when I get it narrowed down to 3 docs. I am going to look into Demirsoy and do a little more research on Bhatti. I want to lean towards Radha, but she is so new.* * Yes, I know Demirsoy is not recommended, his name is popping up for quality in Europe for a reasonable price.

So I did my due diligence and did some more research on the 4 international surgeons I was looking at; Radha, Madhu, Karadeniz, and Bhatti. Out of the 3 Indian surgeons Radha, though not having years upon years of experience, seems to have some great results. On top of this she is very inexpensive and does only 1 client a day. This means if I eliminate Bhatti and Madhu, then it comes down to Karadeniz or Radha. Can anyone speak on the difference between these 2 specific docs? I am going for a somewhat aggressive hairline, so it is important that the result not look pluggy. Anyone who was in my situation (comparing international surgeons to save on cost and/or travel), what factor made you choose your surgeon? Can anyone speak on travel to India for a HT or a medical procedure? I am getting close to choosing and I don't want to make a mistake, I have been considering doing this for a long time and I appreciate all the advise I can get.

@WizKid Thanks for the response - I did not look into Dr. Reys because I did not see him on the recommended surgeons list for this site. I know there are probably great docs that are not on that list, but this saves me time and energy as the list docs have already been 'pre-screened' in a way. Also, if they are on the list, it is likely that members have open and honest posts about them, not just what their website might say. I just use it as another filter basically. Also remember that I am aiming for cost vs quality. There are a lot of good docs out there, but I am trying to keep my cost per graft at $2.50 or below. This is why a few of the recommended European surgeons got bumped off my list. @KO - Thanks for the input and while Bisanga does great work, he is roughly the same in cost as some amazing American surgeons in my area. If I do spend $4-$5 a graft I am going to stay in the U.S. Anyone have experience with Indian surgeons? I am going to search the threads, but was wondering if someone who traveled internationally to India for their surgery could help. I know they are recommended, but I am just a bit concerned about quality of care before, during and after the procedure. Are these doctors on par, as far as medical care, with U.S. surgeons? Would you do it again?

Okay, so I have at least done the cost analysis side of many of the recommended HT international surgeons for this site. I made my own personal google doc. that basically breaks them down by cost per graft. I am 95% certain I am going to do FUT due to my lowish/average amount of donor supply. I have just a few questions for anyone who has researched international surgeons before their procedure. Right now I am down to these surgeons if I decide to go with someone outside the U.S. Dr. YV Rao, Dr. P. Madhu, and R. Palakurthi and T. Bhatti are the Indian surgeons I am considering. India defintely offers the best prices. As far as other international surgeons there is A. Karadeniz and H. Doganay in Turkey and J. Devroye in Belgium. I know this is quite a few surgeons to compare, but has anyone else been through this process of considering international surgeons based on quality vs price? Can you share your experience? Also, of the surgeons above who would you consider the best or who has been putting out great results consistently with little or no complaints? I hope this can help others who are looking to keep their HT below 10K. I would like to make a decision in the next month or so and maybe do a bit of vacation right before the procedure. Any info. on these docs. would be appreciated.

Thanks for the replies. Yes generic Finasteride from Wally World is a deal. I am going to add this in on a three time a week basis, but will likely give it 3-5 months to see what happens. I will be honest, Dr. Cooley and Dr. Vories results just have me so ready to pull the trigger early before I see what Finast. can do. You have to realize, which I am sure a ton of posters on here do, that I have been dealing with this since age 18. Also we are often our own biggest critic. It has always been a bigger deal in my head, no pun intended, than it was to others. I have looked into H&W and their prices are on par with Cooley and Vories (which were actually surprisingly fair). This makes me feel that I will most likely stick with one of the two after looking into the recommended surgeon Dr. William Parsley and a few international surgeons. I have completely eliminated HRS as an option, because you all are right about getting it done right vs cheaply. I don't have a ton of donor hair and I have to conserve what I have. @refuse2lose - Let me clarify what I have said. Dr. Cooley does use ACell with the open wound and, possibly, with the actual graft punches, during his procedure as well as a few other medical solutions that are above a simple chilled saline. The jury is still out to whether this is actually better. What I was speaking on was specifically the PRP/ACell mix which is injected and can be completely separate from a transplant. As ontop has said, you get a deal on this, $1500 vs $2500 if you combine it with the transplant. I am still not sure though if this is worth it as I don't care too much to 'speed along' the results as I have been half bald forever it feels like so what would another added 5 months be. I can be patient if I save $1,500. Also I have heard about Dr. Cooley himself recommending that the $1,500 instead go towards more grafts, as in your case, and not PRP/ACell since budget was a concern for the patient. @refuse2lose - Do you mind if I ask how many grafts you had, your pre-op hair loss situation and if you feel happy with the procedure. I looked at your profile, but did not see pics. @refuse - Yes I am still going to look into Belgium, Turkey and a few other places, but some of Dr. Cooley's work just looks incredible. Can I ask you if a doctor or doctor's assistant recommended FUE to you over FUT? It may be because of my donor density, but I am generally hearing, except of course from Dr. Vories, to go for the FUT first. This is because, and again this may have to do with my donor supply, that you can get more total surgeries out of FUT first and then FUE later as opposed to FUE from the get go. Can a member speak on this specifically? What I have heard is that you may get one or two FUE surgeries tops, but with FUT first, you can do two of those and then since your scalp is going to be tight, you can do another 1, possibly 2 FUEs. I would really like someone in the know to comment on this. If FUE is generally accepted as a better option if budget is not a concern, I might then lean towards Vories. I have contacted Lollie with a few questions, but I am thinking I am probably just going to spend the extra money on a close American surgeon. If you think about what the dollar per hour cost of worrying about your hair loss is worth, and that with a good HT, this can mostly be eliminated, how much is a great HT then worth to you?

Sorry, the answer about the meds is in the last line of my last post. I am going to add it in, but will only do the once every Monday, Wednesday, Friday as suggested by Dr. Cooley's assistant due to the long half-life and because I already take several other medications for health issues. Yes, you are probably right about almost eliminating cost as a factor. I have not really considered other HT docs in North America, simply because I feel Dr. Vories or Dr. Cooley could deliver stellar results. I have heard quite a bit about H&W, but I feel I might be adding a few grand to my total, when the doctors in my area are recommended and are delivery quality results.

ontop - Thanks for the response and suggestions. Yes, I am also not sure that the results of the separate PRP/ACell justifies the cost. I feel that this does help many people, such as women, who may have diffuse thinning and do not want to go through an actual surgery such as a full blown HT. If I eliminated the PRP/ACell - I would still be near the top of my budget, but have roughly 1K-2K to save. For the number of grafts per $, this would then put Dr. Cooley and Dr. Vories almost exactly the same at my graft #. Dr. Vories would be performing the typically more expensive FUE though. All in all roughly still double the cost of HRS. I am still considering International travel and am going to do more research on this forum and others. If I can get a stellar result for say, 7K, this would definitely help with the cost of another procedure I feel is necessary. Now the flight and stay could set me back 1K, so this must be factored in, but I am still going to do my homework. This is culminating into a cost vs quality vs travel experience as I have always been a value shopper, but believe that there is usually a reason something is cheap and most of the time it is worth it to spend the extra money. Oh yeah, I am about to add meds, but, against most recommendations, I am still going to go ahead with the HT before 6 months from now. I have been on Minox. for more than 10 years and have sporadically taken generic Finast. from the UK or India.

I am open to all suggestions as this is a huge decision for me, and I guess it would be for any of us, and I want to make the right choice. Right now I have only eliminated one surgeon from the 4. Essentially it boils down to these factors with each surgeon. HRS: The cost is the deciding factor here. Like I said above, even if it does not come out ideal, I still have over half my budget to go back in and have it redone. I am guessing that since I am a forum poster they would take care of me. Also since they are using essentially the same equipment and techniques as others, they can not have bad results continually, they would be out of business. Cooley: From what I have seen of his posts, this Dr. is an artist and does not typically ever have a bad result. Also, crossing my fingers here, he goes above and beyond to correct (within reason of course) any dissatisfaction a patient has. His cost is at the literal top of my budget, but I think I would be paying for quality. Since I aiming for a few other non-hair related procedures after this, I am not sure about exhausting my resources. Vories: I like the idea of FUE much better than FUT, but am afraid if I need more surgeries in the future that this might make my donor area look moth eaten. This Dr. is a straight shooter and I believe could deliver a great result, but I have seen 1 patient of his that was not ideal. I believe though that this had nothing to do with his skill, but the low number of grafts selected by the patient. He could be a good combination of skill and value. Thanks for reading my long posts, hopefully this will help young guys in my area considering these surgeons. Let me know what you all think.

Lastly, I met with Dr. Mike Vories right outside of Charlotte. I literally drove from Dr. Cooley's to his location. I was able to meet with him personally for the whole consultation. He practices FUE exclusively and no longer, from what he stated to me, practices NeoGraft. The reason being in that his efficiency is such now that he no longer needs the machine, therefor hand placing of the grafts is typically ideal, but usually less efficient. His speed now has let him eliminate the NeoGraft. He recommended the same number, roughly 2000, as the first two surgeons as said that my donor density was definitely adequate for FUE. He punches, typically a 0.8 punch if I recall correctly, and places the grafts all himself. He does only one patient a day as with every other consultation I spoke with. He let me ask away, like all other consultations and was frank and honest with his responses. The cost for this was quite competitive considering this is FUE and not FUT. If I was to come out with a high survival density and acceptable aesthetic look a year later, this would definitely rate as the best value if you consider FUE is typically more expensive. Not the lowest cost though.. HRS was the lowest estimate. Dr. Vories guaranteed me an 85% graft survival density and said that this is not actually a great number, but that the very high number of smokers in the south force him to be in this range. If he dealt with only non-smokers, he could guarantee a higher number. I do not smoke and apparently this lowers your typical graft survival rate. One thing is that he does not practice PRP or other added solutions such as Dr. Cooley due to, what he feels is lack of empirical evidence. I will have to do more research and see what the advantages/disadvantages and evidence are for PRP and whether it could be a deciding factor in selecting a surgeon.

Third I met with Lollie, Dr. Jerry Cooley's patient coordinator. This woman knows her stuff. It was obvious from the get go that Dr. Cooley made a great choice as having her as part of the staff. I was admittidly running late, as the GPS took me 20 minutes away. She worked with what little time I had, but I was not able to meet with Dr. Cooley. She went over many advances in pre, during and post op solutions that Dr. Cooley uses during his surgeries such as ACell and PRP and a specific wound healing compound. I will do more research on this forum, but essentially (as anyone that has read Dr. Cooley's posts knows) this is all to either prolong graft survival, in and out of the head and/or to maximize wound healing - and possibly regenerate transected grafts. She recommended a higher count of grafts, but I feel this was due to me implying I would like a strong post-op density. As with the previous consultations, the option was given, but I was definitely swayed towards FUT for my situation. I feel this may also due to my budget and not that any surgeon is trying to push either method onto you. Lollie reccommended 2000-2500 grafts, but I feel that since the cost per graft goes down as the # goes up and since I want to spread out transplants as long as possible, I would probably lean towards the 2500 grafts. This higher number would also give me enough grafts to work on my receding temples and maybe add a bit of density between the front forelock/hairline and back crown. Every consultation assured me that no grafts would be wasted. Lollie offered also that since I wear my hair short, that if an FUT scar was too visible for my liking, they could do FUE into the scar after the transplant at little to no cost. Dr. Cooley's cost was competitive for the amount of grafts I am considering and his skill level. The only problem I had, is that PRP/ACell would be a seperate cost as opposed to included as with Dr. Griffin and HRS. Let me state that Dr. Cooley uses PRP/ACell as well as other proprietary solutions, so this may be why the added cost for the PRP. Also since his cost per graft is competitive, maybe he does the PRP/ACell as a separate transaction to keep the cost of the actual surgery down. This added cost, if I went with the PRP/ACell would pretty much tap out my budget, which is higher than what is stated in the original post, and I am not sure if I want to do this. I would probably not go with him personally if I only had a low number of grafts needed such as 1000 or less, but since value gets better with a higher number of grafts, I am strongly considering him.

I had only planned to have three consultations, all with recommended surgeons, but on a lark and since I had time to kill until traveling to Charlotte, I called HRS of Atlanta after seeing a billboard advertising $2 a graft. They were able to fit me in the following morning and make the consultation brief as I had to be in Charlotte not long after that. I met with Marshall Boyd. I am not sure if he is a doctor or just consultant, honestly it was my mistake not to ask, but I was rushing the staff to get out in time. He showed me a pic of himself from 21 and his hair looked great now coming from a Norwood 6. I was especially weary of this place for all the same reasons Bosley, Nu-Hart and the like get bashed on this forum. Deservedly so I might add. I was not sure if this was the same type of operation and would really welcome anyone (not a one time poster) who has had a transplant with them to chime in. They recommended roughly the same number of grafts as Dr. Griffin with roughly the same hairline. They do not practice trichophytic closures and I was told by them that the advantage is negligible as hairs from the suture often do not grow well through the scar. The cost for the same amount of grafts in the same regions was much, much less that Dr. Griffin. I understand this is often a sign of a transplant mill and not meeting with the surgeon is also not really ideal, but at this cost I could literally afford 2 for the price of 1, due to their promotion. The first 1000 grafts are not really $2. The first 1000 is $4 per and subsequent grafts would be $2 per. Are there any members here that have had a positive experience with a low cost transplant? It is not all about money for me, and I have the budget, but since I am going for a rather young look I am considering this as an option. Even if they only delivered on 75% of promised density, at this cost I could come back in a year and have it thickened up. Of coarse, this would not make the best use of my average or slightly below donor hairs, but I have to admit, it is tempting because my budget could essentially give me double the grafts. Please let me know what anyone thinks on this or if you have more questions about this consultation.

Well I had four consultations with the surgeons I mention above and one additional one (or their assistants) yesterday and the day before. I want to share my experience so that anyone in Tennessee or the southeast, particularly the Carolinas and north Georgia will have a bit more to go on if they do not want to travel to four different surgeons as I did. I will go chronological. My first appointment was with Dr. Edmond Griffin. For the first half hour to hour I met with his assistant and went over the usual of what causes hair loss, what are my options and what a hair transplant surgery entails. As a side note, I can't believe how many people don't research online and must be explained everything at this late in the process. My dad was bald at 21, so I have been researching since I was 18, I'm 33 now. Anyhow, we took some much better photos of my head (which I will post soon) and went over strip vs Fue and how many grafts I might need. I ordered Dr. Griffin's blend of Finasteride, Minoxidil and R.A. because I like the idea of avoiding another pill (I take several already) and it was actually about the same cost per month compared to name brand Rogain. Dr. Griffin came in and met with me for about half an hour. Both he and his assistant were both very professional and polite. Being a dermatologist, Dr. Griffin even let me ask about a few other concerns I had not related to hair. They recommended around 500 in the crown and 1500 to restore an age appropriate hairline. They totally gave me the option, but seemed to lean towards FUT due to higher yield and the fact that my donor area is average density or maybe slightly below average. **I do not know if I am allowed to speak on cost for the procedure, maybe a mod will let me know, but let me say that while it was reasonable for the nation, (as far as what I have seen on this forum) it came out to be a little high compared to the other doctors I saw in the subsequent consultations. I am going to post the other consultations and posts below. I am afraid with such a long post, something will mess up and I do not want to type this again.

I have appointments set up with Edmond Griffin, Jerry Cooley and Mike Vories this coming up week. I want to track my progress and share with the forum. Should I start a new thread or use this one?

Yes, they are terrible pics. I am going to get some more photos put up tonight. I keep my hair quite short on the sides - Like a 1-2 razor guard. Do pics with wet hair provide a better analysis? My donor hair is thin-ish, but I don't feel it is terribly low. The pics are very bad and this is just after a close cropped haircut. As far as the original question, is there a cost/value advantage to international surgeons once you figure in the travel expenses? Or are there any particular U.S. surgeons that could have seem to be having great hairline results with 2500-4000 grafts on someone with my range of MPB (Norwood 4)? I am trying to get the best overall value for the money I have. I do not want to rule out places such as Turkey, that seemingly have amazing results for low cost, just because they are international or non-recommended.

Howdy forum - Very long time lurker here and first time poster. I am finally going to take the HT plunge after considering it for about 5 years and researching it for much longer. My question is about traveling internationally to save money. I have $10K saved for the procedure and I feel this is definitely adequate, but I am wanting to have a pretty aggressive hairline. Not Jamie Foxx weird or that of a 10 year old, but something similar to Hugh Jackman's hairline. I understand to think realistically and that I'm not going to have Brad Pitt's hairline or density. I am going to schedule consultations with all recommended surgeons within a one state radius, but I am wondering about international surgeons that are and are not recommended. I am seeing some amazing results out of Turkey and India for low cost per graft. I suspect though that they may just be packing the hairline without any improvement on scalp density. Conversely I would also be willing to travel to any state in the U.S. if the cost per graft and quality/skill of the surgeon was top tier. Can anyone speak on an international or low cost per graft U.S. surgeon that could cut my cost and/or give me more grafts for my buck? Also I know cost is not everything, so I would like the surgeon to practice at least some level of ethics/safety protocol. I am guessing I am going to need around 3000-5000 grafts as I want to get a lot done on my first HT. Please have a look at my pics as well and see what you think. Thanks.