BaldKen2

Lol, you skipped over quite a few aspects of cosmetic ink, and paired cosmetic and tattoo ink as onewow lol. I could list all of the facts that u neglected to mention regarding inks,needles, insertion depths etc. but I've learned not to feed the Shills

I won't hold your ignorance against you cheers mate!

Hi Nick,

 

The permanent SMP treatments all use traditional tattoo ink, this is the only product that can remain visible after many years but this comes with a BIG disadvantage. If you think of old tattoos you can see that they start to blur and turn lightly blue-ish.

 

In SMP this can mean that the dots will expand and start to connect leaving a shade of grey-blue, this will not look natural after a few years.

 

The most natural looking solution is to opt for semi-permanent. These treatments are carried out using pigments rather than inks but not all of them are very good. I understand it can be very difficult to find the right technician and how to know what products and techniques they use.

 

Pigmentalia (partners of Milena Lardi) use pigments which will fade within 2 years. Allthough this might not sound ideal, we feel its the only to avoid risking big blue dots in the future and also with yearly touch-ups we can keep the result looking fresh and natural.

 

Hope this info helps, feel free to message me any time if you want more information about SMP in general.

 

Kind Regards,

Jasper Scholtes

ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY FALSE! PERMANENT SMP DOES NOT USE TRADITIONAL TATTOO INK!

Do your research Nick, don't listen to yahoos like this salesman!!!

So I have read a ton of things on SMP, and it seems like HIS Hair Clinic is the one that comes up the most. I don't know, however, if HIS is just similar to Bosley for HT's because they market better than everybody else. I've watched videos of folks that have had it done, and it looks good. However, I don't ever see much after a year or two or three.

 

So what I am wondering, is does anybody have any experience, or can point me in the right direction to find some of the top SMP practitioners that have results that are shown to last (at least as long as a few years)? I realize the procedure is still somewhat new, but I am very interested and I am sure this information would help many others.

 

Also, one last thing, I have read that the SMP will usually fade over the course of a couple years (even though some tout it as permanent) but is there anybody with experience with touch ups? In my mind, I could see the ink becoming more and more dispersed and potentially looking really messy. Again, maybe there are practitioners that have found a way to keep the look looking tight, but any guidance would be most appreciated.

 

Thanks for everything!

Hey Nick, I had SMP treatment over 3 years ago at a top US clinic, and it has not faded one bit, and I have not experienced any of the issues that Scar5 has mentioned. I know this for a fact b/c i have taken hundreds of photos of my scalp, under various lighting, from the day I had the SMP and over the course of these last 3 years up until today. Maybe a bit OCD of me, but this is the only way to track how well the ink is holding up. Also keep in mind, the longevity of your SMP is highly dependent on how well you take care of it, mainly avoiding direct sun exposure to your scalp, and if you do expose your scalp to UV rays you must be sure to always use sunscreen. There are some other basic maintenance responsibilities but Sun exposure is the main thing to avoid- Hats are good:). I did have a 'touchup' over a year after my initial treatment, not due to fading, but b/c I wanted a little more density than most people prefer, but it was no problem, the clinic did it for free as most will for your first 'touchup' or 'enhancement' if you prefer.

As far as finding the best SMP place, it can be tough. Mostly b/c SMP is just now becoming semi-mainstream over these last 6 or 7 years. Most providers use this to their advantage. Lack of information (other than advertising videos and pics for a provider) and lack of LEGITIMATE clients willing to share their experience and/or photos, makes it really hard to separate facts from fiction. It's very easy to find Shills on these forums; not so easy to find actual unbiased and UNPAID smp recipients. Part of this is due to the fact that after most clients receive a successful SMP they no longer feel it necessary to come on these forums.

There is just a lot of sales pitch and BS you have to sift through to get the answers you want. For example, if you consult with 'Clinic A', they will tell you that you should not go to 'Clinic B', b/c they have had dozens of 'Clinic B's' clients come to them and they have had to repair "terrible work" done by 'Clinic B'. And if you then go and speak to 'Clinic B', they will tell you the exact same thing about 'Clinic A'. When I was searching for a provider, at least 6 providers used the "we've had to fix their horrible SMP work" sales tactic when speaking of their competitors. This seems to be the main scare tactic providers utilize, although im sure some of these claims are true. And this is very typical in the cosmetic industry.

You mentioned HIS Hair Clinic above. When I first learned of SMP a few years ago, HIS was the first provider I looked into. Although they have been offering SMP since 2002, they have so many locations with so many different technicians, quality control may be an issue. Also, the method they use seems to be somewhat temporary and fades significantly between 1 and 3 years. (If I can find a link for an example of this on the HIS forum I will post it). This means the client needs to continue going back and PAYING for additional sessions every year or so. Seems like they are geared for customers to keep coming back and spending more money. I am definitely no expert, but I believe that continuous smp treatments to the scalp can cause some issues to the skin, maybe scarring. If you want, PM me and I can give you some more specific information regarding the clinic I who did my SMP and some other good clinics based on my research.

Hi guys, I got my first treatment 2 days ago.

As you can see in the attached pictures, it's very light, but what really bothers me, is this wierd line accross my forhead. what do you that is? will it go away? is it normal?

 

edit: i've added a picture that was taken 30min after the first treartment. what the hell is this line?!

Just as Joe said, this is only your first treatment. Every technician/clinic have their own timeline and method as far as completing the job. How many hours did this take may I ask? I would imagine that is just the outline and future sessions will include the density fill of replicated follicles to complete the job. I have seen some clients' heads look very similar at certain clinics after just one session. It all depends on the method your practitioner utilizes. Not every practitioner can do an 8-10 hr procedure in one day.

The 'large dot technique' is something that I have seen from HIS Hair clients. The provider who did my smp uses a completely different technique and the dots were tiny upon application and are still the same size today. Based on what I have seen from the HIS Hair clients, the dots shrink significantly within 30 days, but based on the fact that you say your provider does a 'one and done' session approach, it couldnt be His Hair b/c they require 3-5 sessions initially. Still, your provider sounds as though they have the same technique.

With any SMP or tattoo, as the redness subsides, and your macrophages 'eat away' the excess ink (this is different for everyone based on their immune system), and the rest is exfoliated through the epidermis (skin flaking like sunburn) the color density will fade significantly- a process that can take up to 60 days or more. This is why it is imperative to make sure that your provider offers additional sessions if you need them. The one and done approach is convenient only for the provider.

I checked some shops for smp work prices were from 4000 to 7000 USD.

 

Yes, it is a work of art.. but for a temp smp is it worth that much for a year $? If you have donor

hair just get a FUE or FUT.. IMHO

Go and speak to a permanent makeup/ cosmetic tattooing clinic, and you will find that they charge between $300-$600 an hour. Your smp treatment could be between 8-12 hours. If you find someone who charges you less than $2,800 I would be very cautious. Cosmetic tattooing is considered a medical procedure, and is completely different from regular tattoos where they simply stencil an image and trace over it. You will probably pay at least 4 grand for Permanent SMP.

whats up guys!

 

had no idea these forums existed until my smp provider told me about them. This is awesome and good to know a lot of ppl are in the same boat.

 

anyway i just completed my 2nd session at Headstrong ny with matt iulo about 6 days ago. i had looked into this for awhile but had to save up cause im from Canada and the travel was an extra cost. so glad i went through with it. the guy matt who did my procedure was great and has been doing it for a long time so i felt comfortable. i may go back in a month for one final look, but im loving it as it is.

 

He just sent me my before and after shot so ill post it here. im going to take some more when i get my phone back. but let me know your thoughts on the hairline. Thanks guys!

 

VM

Looks great man, the smp buzz look suits u well, congrats!

BaldKen,

 

My experience is that SMP looks poor at certain lengths, but once you grow through the bad zone, it is fine.

 

But my case maybe different. My SMP is light. My 'dots' are not really visible, even when buzzed. It is just a vague grey hue. If you put some magnification on, you can see distinct dots.

 

I don't know whether this is ideal or not, but it means I am fine as long as I grow through the grade 2 and 3 length.

 

I agree about the scar stuff. I have pounded my strip scars with various SMP over the years (as well as lasered it) in a bid not match the scars and patches of it are blueish.

 

But it is not a deal killer. It is the indented nature of strip scars and the changing plane of skin where the scars join that screw me.

 

I don't mind hairthere and I like his comments. Of course he is running a business and if he couldn't come here and do it, there would be no forum and I'd have to find something useful to do in my life. :confused:

Yes, i suppose you are right Scar, we are all different and have our own situations based on our skin, immune systems, ht background, and different clinics who administered the smp. You may look better with SMP and longer hair than I do, or we just may have different opinions on what we like. If this kid can get permanent SMP and keep his hair at that length I think that would be awesome and I would really like to see his results. Being that he is from Rochester I would try HEADSTRONG, b/c Matt Lulo is the Real Deal based on all the glowing reviews on the His Hair Forum.

As far as the advertising, I have no issue with Hairthere or Matt, or Nicole, b/c they are very up front and honest about who they represent and we all gotta make a dollar in this world. The members who do the undercover thing that i take issue with.

@ Bilbobaggins: I have had permanent smp done, and I have about the same remaining hair as you do. I have tried growing my hair to about a quarter of an inch and while i agree with scar 5 that the smp provides some benefit, the longer hair really hides it and it does not look its best at that length. I have personally seen guys try to grow their hair longer than a one guard length with smp, and just to be perfectly honest, it did not look very good either. THE IDEA OF PERMANENT SMP IS TO REPLICATE HAIR FOLLICLES, NOT HAIRS (although i have seen some clinics trying the 3d thing) AND SMP DOTS WILL BLEND WITH YOUR NATURAL HAIR FOLLICLES WHEN THEY ARE CUT VERY SHORT B/C HAIR IS 3D, SMP DOTS ARE 2D, HOW WOULD THIS WORK??

Also, when your have HTs this creates scar tissue, and the ink is VERY UNPREDICTABLE when applied to scar tissue: there is a greater chance of color change to blue and pigment migration. If you have not had hts and are interested in smp I would advise against one or the other.

Temporary smp allows the technician to apply the ink much more liberally and denser than permanent. The reason for this is that it will slowly fade and the possibility of pigment migration and color change are minimized, and the potential consequences are less severe b/c it is temporary and you wont have to live with it forever.

I know that this information is not what you want to hear, BUT BE VERY CAREFUL WITH CLINICS WHO PROMISE YOU THAT YOUR HAIR LENGTH IN THE PHOTOS WILL BLEND WITH SMP DOTS: IT WONT! SORRY.There are so many more variables to smp that are not discussed and you need to understand that.

AS FAR AS SPAMMING AND ADVERTISING FOR CLINICS ON THESE FORUMS, IT IS NOTHING NEW AND ID SAY THAT THIS IS THE MAIN REASON I DO NOT POST MUCH ANYMORE. YOU THINK YOU ARE SPEAKING TO AN ACTUAL PERSON WHO IS INTERESTED IN SMP BUT YOU IN FACT ARE SPEAKING WITH A COMMISSION WHORE.

good luck

I would say that your existing hair would definitely benefit you if you have smp. If you have the permanent however, you will still have to buzz your hair to the length of a '1' guard (1/8th of an inch) which would be shorter than in your pics. The temporary smp can go much heavier with the ink b/c it will fade and this could work (IMO) with your existing hair, but it will fade and you will have to have it redone.

Concerning HT's I do not have a great amount of info, sorry, but that may be a great route to explore given your hairline is still in tact and good amount of remaining hair.

I do not know much about Scalp Aesthetics, but be VERY CAREFUL WITH REVIEWS ON FORUMS (especially the negative ones) b/c many of the "testimonies" claiming blue and all the horror story stuff, is just mudslinging from competitors. If you are interested in S.A. it is best to set up a personal consultation with them. Good luck to you

Your SMP clinic should have provided you with detailed aftercare instructions.

Yes Exactly, im a bit confused as to why your provider did not provide you with more detailed instructions for aftercare, mine was two-three pages long

Avoid this place, phuket is a bad option

Thanks again for your honest opinion , it's quite hard to get honesty on these matters , i guess I'm now in the situation of picking a surgeon , if you don't mind me asking where did you have your smp done ? For future reference

No problem at all Wibbles! Yes it is tough to get unbiased opinions on here, but very easy to get a sales pitch LOL. That is why I don't say where I had my SMP done. I just have always felt that there are some good smp places out there, and you gotta find the provider that best suits your needs and meets your expectations as far as customer service and proven long-term results. If you really want to know the provider who did my smp, which I would recommend 100%, Private Message me and I'll tell you.

But honestly, it sounds to me like SMP may not be your best course of action at this point, and your money may be better spent on a surgical hair transplant. And if you talk to MOST SMP places right now, they will first tell you this step by step:

1) "yes, we can perform smp with the hair length you have now to add appearance of density"

Later they will say:

2) " Well you will have to buzz your head with the clippers to make it shorter for it to all blend and look its best"

And finally you will hear this:

3) "I think you should shave your head. You will need to commit to no longer than an eight of an inch buzz cut (one guard clipper shave) for the smp to blend with your natural hair."

"Why don't you wana shave your head? You will look great with a shaved or buzzed head, you've got great features!"

LOL, and that is the quintessential 3-step SMP sales pitch for guys with longer hair! And my favorite part is when they tell guys that they will look good with a buzzed head when there is absolutely no way to determine if he will look good until you see the guy with his head shaved LOL. It's just B.S. sales techniques and is really annoying to see, b/c someone in your position obviously wants to keep the hair he has and make it fuller in certain areas, and SMP cannot do that. And you have good hair, you should try and keep it long, in my opinion.

I will say that the clinic I went to is very honest and up front with men. They tell you from the beginning that you have to commit to shaving your head or the smp will not look its best.

Hi ken ,

 

Thanks again for your help , I've been on the meds you mentioned for approx 3 years and they have definitely stopped any further loss , I will look into adding a shampoo to my treatment , I haven't had any previous surgery but I definitely want to soon so I can rebuild crown , mid scalp and hairline . How long is it since you were told you weren't a good candidate for ht ? I think a lot of the top surgeons are more comfortably working around existing hair now with the improvement/sizes of needles etc . I was told the same by bhr clinic 3 years ago that they weren't prepared to work on my crown as fear of shockloss but they are now prepared to add fue to my crown .

 

Regards

That is good that u are on the meds. I haven't found that they regrow hair that has been lost (rogaine has added a little) but they have definitely helped me keep what I have. It's been about 5 years since I consulted with Bosley. I always felt that a good ht doc could do what Bosley can't. I think you wud benefit greatly from ht, provided the doc is good. I know there are a lot of factors involved with successful ht's, but I think you'd be better off trying that and adding texture rather than just pigment. I love my smp results and couldn't be happier with the results, but if u don't like the shaved or even the buzzed look then it doesn't make since to even go down that road. Plus you have good hair that just needs some rebuilding- no need to tear down the entire house just because of a couple small holes in the roof.

Hi ken ,

 

Thank you so much for your opinion , I think you are bang on with your research , I have raised the issue of my concerns regarding the blend between the smp to long hair and since then I haven't received a reply ? ? When thy mention I have other options , are you referring to a transplant ? I have sent pictures in for virtual consultation and have received mixed feedback ,

 

Asmed clinic =4000 fue

Injertocapilar = 2200 fue

Feriduni=3000 fue

Doganay =2500 fue

Hasson&wong = 2800 fut

 

I'm starting to sway to a possible procedure next year, but probably now need to start researching the various clinics ?

 

Thanks so much for your reply and any other further advice re ht would be greatly received

Yea, I am not surprised that you haven't received a response from the clinics to your question regarding the blending of smp only in thinning areas + long hair. What I have learned about SMP is that it is so new that a lot of the questions we may ask the smp providers will go unanswered or we will get the run-around b/c these providers honestly do not know the answer. There are not a ton of cases of men having smp for longer than ten years, so any inquiries about longevity, fading, and # of touchups necessary is going to be a question mark even to the provider. But as far as your question about the blending of smp only placed in thinning areas with your natural long hair; I think this is an unknown b/c it is something that no permanent smp clinics are willing to tackle at this point, on men anyway. I have seen some photos of Temporary SMP "results" on men with longer hair, and the photos look great, but you must keep in mind that with the 'lighting tricks' and photoshop, these providers can make their smp look amazing without it actually being amazing in person. Plus as I said before, as soon as you have temp smp done, the proverbial hour glass will be turned over and you will see your smp fade at a rapid pace and after 18 months it'll be like turning back into a pumpkin after midnight.

As far as your individual case, when I said I think you should seek alternative solutions I was referring to medicine and possibly surgical. I apologize in advance for not reading very far back on your story, just been busy with holidays and work so you may already be on medication. But if you arent I would definitely recommend speaking with your Primary about getting on Finasteride (propecia), and/or Dutasteride, and definitely Rogaine (minoxidil). By blocking the production of DHT, These will help preserve the hair you have left and delay the process of losing more hair significantly. I speak from experience when I say that these medications have allowed me to maintain what hair I have left. Also some good shampoos out there to cleanse the scalp and follicles of DHT and thicken the hair shafts. Nioxin is a good one. You may be very aware of all of this info already but Im just mentioning it just in case.

I honestly do not have much experience with Hair Transplants. I was told by two different HT docs that I was not a candidate b/c my hair loss was not great enough. They told me they could only transplant units to my crown area, but that I had too much remaining hair in front and everywhere else that they could not fit the follicular units in between existing follicles. That is why I started shaving my head and eventually opted for SMP. But since you wana keep the hair you have, and it looks really full and good with exception of crown and small area in middle/front, I would definitely try and find a good HT doc who can fill in those areas. Have you already undergone HT surgery? If so it has worked quite well for you

Hey Wibbles, I understand your confusion over the whole 'smp+shaved head+entire head treatment thing'. When I first began researching smp I assumed that smp was only applied to thinning areas of the scalp, but after extensive research I learned that all of the credible smp businesses in the industry treat the entire scalp (even over the areas on the side of the head where hair still grows normally) for blending purposes. And honestly, for you to benefit from TRUE SMP, which is Hair follicle Replication( tiny tattooed dots that match your natural hair follicle color) you must shave your hair down very close with razor or clippers and shave regularly. If you do not like the shaved head look or buzzed look then I would definitely say that SMP is not for you. If you only have smp performed on the thinning areas of your scalp, it will not look natural and will not blend well with your natural hair; it will look very strange and an obvious discrepancy between hair and ink will exist. The idea is to have the entire scalp smp'd to basically serve as the foundation or base, which means you'll have to get rid of your hair by shaving it.

Now there are some permanent smp clinics who perform smp on women, and use a different method called the 'blanket method', in which they tattoo a solid sheet of ink (Not just dots) over only the thinning areas, but most of these clinics will not perform this method on men, as men are more likely than women to continue losing more hair as they age. Dots will not do much to conceal hair loss with longer hair, it has to be a solid base. And I have noticed that many of these clinics, who once advertised heavily that they offered this service for women, are no longer pushing and advertising this near as much which causes me to believe that it may have been less than successful in the long term.

I am aware that temporary SMP clinics are using this method of tattooing only the thinning areas as a sort of longer-lasting dermatch concealer, and the photos I have seen look really good. The problem I have with these Temporary clinics though, is it will start fading as soon as you have it done. Your results will constantly be on a very quick decline from the day you have the procedure until about the 9-18 month mark when the results fade completely. And watching your results fade so quickly would feel like losing your hair all over again, and we all know how depressing that is. I think this temporary method is fine for someone who just wants to try out smp and see if they like it without committing, but to constantly being paying for this service and undergoing treatments every 9-18 months just seems like a depressing and hopeless journey to be on. Losing your hair is discouraging enough without having to constantly watch your smp results fade so quickly over and over again.

Judging from your photos you seem to have a good amount of coverage remaining, just thinning on the crown and some on the frontal area. I understand why you would not want to shave your head, you do not appear to be at a point where you have to yet. That being said, I don't think SMP is your best option at this point, Although the guys and gals Peddling their smp services on this forum will No Doubt tell you otherwise! I would definitely explore other options if I were in your situation, especially if you are not looking to do the shaved head thing.

So what then are the 'correct' parameters? What is the correct ink? The correct needle size, cluster? The speed? The pressure?

 

Now before you say, "everyone is different", let's assume that that goes without even saying so.

 

And how does one know to trust an operator? I think none of us completely trusts them, and for good reason.

 

 

Regarding your story, I'm not trying be a wise ass but you seem to saying;

 

you should base your decision on results by extensively checking,

everybody is different so there is no telling what's gonna happen,

you studied the technical aspects really hard and,

studying the technical aspects is meaningless?

 

i think it is nigh impossible to do the results thing because you need to see these patients in the flesh over the course of several years - and quite a lot of them.

You can certainly dismiss a bad job, but how likely is it that they will be available for you?

 

I agree we are different.

 

I think study of the technical aspects is important. if you make the wrong call, you make the wrong call. The SMP operators are changing their stuff too, so you have to keep up, and whenever they innovate you lose what little evidence you would have gotten. Not to mention that they rotate, get better, get worse.

 

So what I am saying is that you compromise. You try to learn, you try to see and you know you get spin every step of the way.

I definitely understand where you are coming from. I am also a person who likes to analyze things down to the last detail and try and gather as much knowledge and info on a subject as possible (especially something like this that affects my appearance). But honestly, beyond making sure that your provider adheres to health and sanitation regulations as well as safety, and ensuring that the clinic has legit Micropigmentation certifications and resumes for their practitioners and good results(and any reputable clinic will have all of that), there is really not much else you can do. It is absolutely necessary to practice Due Diligence when researching smp clinics in order to ensure that you are dealing with experienced practitioners, but There is such a thing as overkill when doing research. What it all boils down to is that YOU CANNOT CONTROL EVERYTHING. AT SOME POINT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TRUST YOUR SCALP TO A PRACTITIONER AND HOPE THAT YOU ARE IN CAPABLE HANDS. There is no sure thing, and going into SMP we as clients all know and understand this, b/c this treatment is still so young and unproven in terms of longevity. Did all of your research and studying up on SMP cause you to achieve a better result? It does not seem so, b/c you seem quite dissatisfied with your smp treatment and you have said that it has faded significantly. Either your selection process was flawed, or you just happen to have a poor result for another reason, but you selected a provider using the information that was available to you and no one can fault you b/c you did your research.

Every time you decide to fly somewhere you are trusting your life to the pilot. No amount of knowledge and education on Aviation is going to help you at 40,000 feet if something goes wrong. You do your best to select a reputable airline, and then the outcome is out of your hands.

And I know that SMP is different b/c of the fact that it is such a new treatment. Choosing an SMP provider is not like picking a Cable or internet provider. There are no SMP businesses that have been proven and established for decades or anything. The oldest Scalp Micropigmentation Provider has only been around since 2002. And you and I both know that the SMP industry holds their cards very close to the vest. Even if you have a book of information on smp and show up for a consultation and ask these providers questions regarding their methods, equipment, or pigments, we both know that you will get very vague and non-specific answers. And I do not blame them, they are simply protecting their business.

I absolutely agree with you that it is very important to stay educated and up to date with the changes and new developments within the SMP industry, and I am doing the same thing by reading and participating on the forums. But my point is that other than aiding the potential client in the selection of a provider, this information and research on SMP is not going to do much for you and will not help you achieve a better result. Unless, of course, you decide to take micropigmentation training courses and become certified. Then that is a whole other story b/c you will have actual experience.

I do feel that there is a lot to be gained from communicating with fellow SMP clients and smp experts online, and learning new ways of living with and managing smp results. Such as moisturizer lotions, sunscreens, mattifiers, Clippers and shavers etc.

Here is more spouting.

 

First

I think it is normal to make educated guesses and be wrong. I am sure you know that by now Ken. What you do is try to err on the side of caution taking in all your guesses, your knowledge etc., into account. Valid provider?? Who are you kidding? This is SMP right?

 

Second

I was told that it would significantly fade and I was happy about that and I am happy that it happened that way. I believe that the distinction between permanent and temp is more fuzzy than we are led to believe.

 

Third

It faded at least 30% within 30 days, again I was aware that it might be the case.

 

Fouthly

I believe that the ink that is remaining is more or less 'permanent' What I have left is a grey tint on my scalp that really helps the illusion of density.

 

Finally

All of that is science, just facts that you can look up. I guess you must already know that, hence...

 

Don't worry about being harsh, hard love on HTN is what it is all about.

 

However, I am not so proud of my choice as a consumer. I wouldn't dare to be so cocky. Most of us make decisions about these sorts of things quite tentatively and with a great deal of risk and hope. I am glad to say it really helped me and that SMP can be great for people who had strip transplants and kept losing their hair.

I'm sorry if my post was a bit blunt, did not mean to offend, but was just trying to make a point. I guess that point is this- All of the science and speculation makes Zero difference in the end if you do not have experience personally performing SMP, and if you don't ( I know I have never performed SMP) then all of the science and cellular factors really don't matter. There is no advice or valuable contribution of information on SMP that I can provide b/c I have no applied knowledge, I am only a recipient of SMP, not a practitioner. I guess I am also realizing this for myself at this point, and probably am preaching to myself as well LOL. I understand Anatomy and Physiology and auto immune responses of the macrophages and neutrophils, and I know all of the statistics and measurements of Needle sizes, Insertion Depths, Particle sizes contained in various pigments, organic pigments and inorganic pigments, different Micropigmentation machines and brands with speeds and punctures per minute etc etc bla bla bla bla LOL. But honestly, none of those facts and stats even matter b/c at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the finished result, and the longevity of a quality result. I have searched quite a bit for knowledge on Scalp Micropigmentation in hopes that I could find an easier more convenient option for enhancements when my results begin to fade (b/c they will fade at some point). The Clinic I got my smp done at is across the country from my home, so I have to fly there if I want to add more density or adjust the hairline or whatever i need over the years. I have looked around my city and state and neighboring state for micropigmentation artists/practitioners who could possibly help me, but after speaking with dozens of them I have learned that SMP is a specific and specialized skill that should only be performed by a practitioner who does Hair Follicle Replication Exclusively. And at this current time there are not Reputable SMP clinics in every state, although that may change in the next 10 years. Tattooing hundreds of tiny dots to look like follicles, at just the right depth with just the right amount of pressure, is not an easy task and requires a lot of skill and experience. If practitioner goes to shallow or too deep on just one dot, you have a problem.

If you look at some of my previous posts, at one time I actually believed that any skilled tattoo artist could do smp, but I have learned through research and from talking to many traditional tattoo artists and cosmetic practitioners that I WAS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. The right skills, equipment, and pigments are necessary for a quality smp result.

I suppose my bottom line here is that you and I can sit here all day and Regurgitate all of the science and stats and info that we have learned online or in our science books, but all of us who are not experienced SMP practitioners are simply in the dark and must choose our SMP providers based not on science, but on proven results that we can see in person with our own two eyes. And I realize that this is not an easy task, what with all of the deception that goes on in the Cosmetic industry as a whole. But there are some quality, honest providers out there and I am so happy that I found one. And yes, there are VALID PROVIDERS out there. I don't know why 'Provider A' is able to produce a good SMP result while 'Provider B' produces a poor result with color change and migration. I honestly do not know that answer and that is why the good providers are making tons of money right now. And in the end you are right, it is always going to be somewhat of a gamble choosing smp provider, no matter how good the provider's reputation is or how many great results they have produced. We are all different, and everyone responds differently to smp treatments.

I am not certain what your current SMP situation is regarding your results, but if they have faded can't you just return to your provider and receive more smp? Or if you are not happy with your initial provider have you thought about finding a better one? I know it can be a discouraging journey for sure. Again, did not mean to offend with my previous post.

although my 'permanent' is barely 50% after 30 months -

Then it clearly isn't "permanent", and you received a poor result from subpar smp work. My smp was completed several years ago and it has not faded- I've tracked the stages with high def photos. All of the pseudo-science and over analyzed bs you spouted is useless "knowledge" if u couldn't manage to apply it to your selection of a valid provider. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but just being real with you.

Hi Ken,

 

I do feel like Permanent SMP can be a viable option if done by a reputable clinic! Temp SMP (tricopigmentation) is a great advancement in the permanent SMP procedure exactly for the reason you stated above - because it offers another option for patients. I like to stay away from any permanent vs. temporary SMP debates because they both have their own lists of pro's and con's. Always, the most important thing first is "Do no harm" followed by "What is best for this patient". Both are great procedures in the right hands but neither procedure is "the perfect solution" for every patient. It's nice to be able to offer options. Many patients are not ready psychologically (for a variety of reasons) to make a decision to do any permanent procedures so this offers another way for them to "test the waters" knowing it will fade and disappear compared to needing laser removal treatments should they want to make changes (or life hands them changes) in the future.

 

Nicole

Awesome Explanation Nicole, very well stated! That makes perfect sense and I agree that having options is a great thing in the field of Micropigmentation

Well, if they have mastered it, why do we have to find one that knows what they are doing? And how do we find them?

OK...I am being pedantic.

 

I do not get it. How can an HT have any effect on blueishness? I think that HTs are what makes SMP worthwhile and that hairless SMP is a recipe for trouble, especially as SMP becomes public as time goes by...and it will!

 

I accept that scarred tissue does not accept ink as predictably as virgin skin however. That said, SMP can definitely help strip scars and barren areas blend in.

I did not say that all SMP clinics have mastered the art of creating natural hairlines. What I said exactly was, "I believe natural SMP hairlines are the one thing that a fair share of SMP businesses have mastered." And to answer your question of how do you find a clinic that creates natural hairlines, I believe I have stated this many times, but I will say it again- YOU HAVE TO VISIT THE CLINIC IN PERSON AND SEE THERE WORK IN PERSON ON SEVERAL DIFFERENT MEN. It also doesn't hurt to meet some former clients of the clinic you are interested in, although with smaller clinics that arent named HIS, this can be difficult. I was actually able to view an SMP procedure at the clinic I went to, before I ever had smp done.

I do agree with you that SMP is better with hair, and the reason is b/c of the texture and 3d effect hair provides. The hair just has to be shaved very very short. I just don't feel that HT hair is good for smp, and i believe that is where we disagree. The reason SMP can look less defined and blueish with HT scar tissue, is b/c scar tissue is completely different than regular skin tissue and the ink takes on a different hue inside of it. All I can tell you is that I have personally seen smp on several guys with scar tissue, and it all looked blurry and blue. Hopefully there will be in the future, or maybe already, an ink and method of smp that works well with scar tissue b/c there are many guys out there with HTs and could benefit from smp. And I do agree with you, that being completely bald (no hair at all) with SMP is a recipe for disaster, and just as you stated, as soon as smp becomes more widely recognized those with less hair and smp will be more easily outed.

This just went up today 10/13 and it says it was posted on 10/2, weird?

 

Thank you so much haircut! I love being wife approved And, I honestly couldn't be happier that this procedure has been able to provide you with some day to day ease. The pigment has taken very well for you, and really in most cases if a patient meets the proper criteria it will take great, if the proper technique is used. With scar tissue, IMO it's most important to implement slowly and watch how the procedure heals before adding more. It does require multiple sessions (and the hassle and pain of travel) but in the end I have found that practicing patience in the beginning of the procedure results in better long term satisfaction. I would much rather the have you travel and experience the hassle of getting it right to begin with than the hassle to correct it. Thank you, again

Hey Nicole, I was wanted to ask your opinion on something. Since you have worked for a permanent SMP clinic, and now are the Temp SMP specialist at SMG, you probably have a unique perspective in that you are one of the few Practitioners and Specialists in the industry who has actually done both Temporary and Permanent SMP. I know that your career now is the Temporary SMP, but do you feel that Permanent SMP is still a good viable option for men if they have it done at a reputable clinic? Or does it just depend on what the client is wanting, like maybe just want to see if smp is for them or not?

but don't trust them to create a nautral hairline. They pretty much haven't sorted that yet. Get some HT hair up front first.

 

It is hard to say who is good at SMP circa 2014. Big chains have novices and experts. Experts get lazy, or leave and start their own shop, and then they can get cheap all over again.

I disagree. The clinic that did my smp created an amazingly natural hairline. All of the men who I saw in person who had there's done at the clinic also had very realistic looking smp hairlines. I have seen photos and videos of several other smp clinics who seem to create very rounded and natural hairlines as well. Granted, there are some smp providers who tend to go a little lower on the forehead and straight across, and also do temple work with zig-zags and crazy design crap like that which I do not feel looks realistic at all. But even in those cases, those styles are usually the request of the client. I believe natural SMP hairlines are the one thing that a fair share of SMP businesses have mastered. You just have to find a clinic that knows what they are doing.

As far as HT's + SMP, if you haven't already carved your head up with HT's, I would certainly advise against doing so. Do the SMP without FUE or HT. From my observations, (personal viewings) men who have had HT's and then have SMP tend to have results that look a bit blueish and slightly blurred dots that are not as defined. And again, this is based on results I have seen in person. SMP works much better on a "Virgin Scalp".

It is best to find a provider who has used the same primary practitioner throughout the history of the company (even if it has only been 5-8 years) and has only one location. When you start messing with the bigger "chain" providers, you are basically paying for a service unknown, b/c the results they have sold you on are most likely the results of their top practitioner(s), and chances are you will have someone different. Best to check the entire resume of your practitioner before diving in. It may surprise you that some practitioners have little to no experience in smp and have only completed a 90 training certification course.

Thanks for reply u have any pics, I'm currently booking slots at all the clinics mentioned, any more info guys

I don't share pics anymore, I used to several years ago when I first had smp done, but got burned too many times sending photos to people who claimed to be potential clients but actually turned out to be Clinic Owners or SMP industry people. My photo even ended up on a facebook page of a clinic I never went to. Im not saying that this is the case with you, but just to be sure I do not share my photos or other personal information and do not disclose which clinic I went to.

Pics will not do you much good anyhow, they do not tell the whole story. You have to see it in person and under various lighting. You should visit the clinics in person that you are interested in.

Hi guys I'm 29 and seriously considering smp for dense looking hair and later on the shaved look, now as title says who is best and secondly please I'd love to hear and see pics from people who had it done looking to get few app lined up so please please guys take the time to get back to me cheers

Well I am in the U.S. and since you are London based I do not feel that I could do you much good. I had my smp in the states, and researched quite a bit about the various clinics and their techniques. Ultimately I found a place that I was most comfortable with and I feel they did a great job. The best I know of the UK is that HIS Hair, Vinci Hair, and Skalp are the most experienced providers. Have you checked into these places?