Taken4Granted

Exactly. I'm just saying it sucks to have diligently saved up so much money (on a paltry income) the whole 4 years I've been fighting hair loss just to find out I can't afford it. I can't even afford a small, first session of 2000 grafts with less than 10k? That means that, should most my native hair be doomed, I'd be committing to a 50k financial burden over my lifetime, with permanent scarring and up to 3 or 4 years of my life spent in recovery, all with NO guaranty that it will turn out. I'm just venting, but God that seems insane bordering on clinical retardation. And yet, this is what hair is worth to some people. Truth is there exists no real solution for 99% of men who suffer from MPB. I'm dismayed to be disabused of the idea that I could just "get it fixed" for a few thousand dollars in the way one gets a nose job or smthg. Thank God for this board, though

yikes, $5/graft is steep. I can't afford more than $8000 for this, and that's breaking the bank bc I have to pay cash (poor credit). I mean, I'm sure his work is worth every penny, but I just don't have that many pennies. I knew that, though. This is the thing I hate about it all. In order for people like me to get HTs (and i'm not even poor), we have to gamble on lesser surgeons. Not only do I run the risk of getting f***ed up for life, but I'd have to consider myself lucky if the scar was acceptable and i got mediocre results. Ugggggghhhh. I thought konior was it, dude. Now I'm checking out Alexander in AZ and maybe some folks on the East coast

Thank you for your comments. FYI, I'm very open with my gf about my HT research. I show her all the doctors I'm looking at to get her opinion. Well, I didn't feel I had found a truly solid option in SoCal and found Konior after another member privately recommended him. Anyway, I show her the before/after photos available here and elsewhere. She thought Konior was great. So, I just checked your profile, and it appears you were one of the many examples we were examining. When we saw your result, she said "wooooooooow! He looks great." Not really knowing what a realistic result is, she expects Hollywood from HTs, you know. So, needless to say, gf (beautiful, beautiful woman) very much approves of your results and your doctor. Thanks for your help!

don't forget incantations

Konior... Comments, anyone? Seems like a solid bet, just don't know his pricing yet

I'm thinking about flying to Chicago to have my first HT with Konior. I can't find dirt on this guy (yet).

smoking also has statistically significant effects on sex hormone ratios; i.e., your HPTA will likely fluctuate more than usual afterwards to adapt to the change. Maybe many of you other guys aren't like me, but my hair is super sensitive to any change in my system that isn't transitory. My hair is so used to my diligent routine that anything, anything has the potential to throw me into a shed. So, if you're like me, a shed is def possible. But obviously quitting is the best thing you can do for yourself. Every shmoke is another axe blow to your lifespan. And that's not even propaganda, man. It's really bad for you and it will never hit home til you get the bill. But then it's too late.

"no reason whatsoever" isn't quite what I'd attribute MPB to I don't think I'm effectively demonstrating my points, here fante, you're right. I'm moving to Korea.

meh. It's vain. IMO, vanity is worst when we try to call it by another name. but I submit that there are degrees of vanity. Looking at my photo, do you think me getting a HT would be as vain as my gf who got a nose job bc she wants to look like Megan Fox? f**K this world, man HTs are about deigning to live in a cave with the rest of society. sorry. I can't help alluding to Plato at every turn

I don't find your definition of "natural" innately convincing. Please explain the reasoning behind your conclusion that a sudden, rapid onset of AGA is necessarily unnatural. As for the alcohol, it's true there's been much debate on how it affects hair, skin, teeth, organs, and so on. It may indeed interrupt the hair cycle. But then, that would be toxin-induced hair loss, or "toxic alopecia," not AGA, right? And it's interesting that young Koreans don't seem to be losing much hair. As AGA is a genetic trait, I'd have thought their ethnicity might have something to do with their rate of mpb vis-a-vis other ethnicities more prevalent in the West. But I'm just blithering. And again, if the diet really is the cause, then we're not talking AGA are we? What do they call malnutrition-induced alopecia? I think your challenge is not to brandish evidence in support of the thesis that western lifestyles trigger an unnaturally early/severe onset of AGA, but that hair loss in the West is not in fact genetic in nature. Taken

It looks like it could definitely be a lot worse, and, if they're right, it will improve over the next several months. I would say that, short of a horror story and a garish scar, that my own worst fear is going through it all and being unsatisfied or worse off than I was to begin with. I'm not saying that's your case, but it seems to happen all too often. That said, wouldn't you want to go with like twice as many grafts to patch that up?

just saw the subject line and looked it up it doesn't seem like PRP would be any good for altering perfectly natural, healthy hair growth cycles (which includes miniaturization from AGA), but I don't know much about it so I wouldn't pose as someone with an authoritative opinion If it had any effect, certainly no one knows a definitive reason why it would; but the hair cycle is intricate, dynamic, involuted. I could conceive of this PRP/ACell stuff influencing the system somewhat Could be bs, too. I'd like to see some discussion about this as much as you

sounds like steroid injectons for alopecia areata and other immune related alopecia What I'm thinking of wouldn't do shite for MPB, but then I don't know this doc you're talking about Can you post a link about it?

your hair is fine, dude like YOLO said, go have fun. I'd be having a hell of a lot of fun if I had hair like that. if you're worried, just relax and keep an eye on it

imo this is actually good evidence that age/aging has nothing to do with it. a gerontologist is needed to explore this further btw, im totally not trying to insult you by assertively disagreeing

Alopecia of various types can be attributed to poor health, malnutrition, stress, etc., but not AGA. That's why it is important to diagnose the cause of your hair loss. If it's not AGA, then you are right, the other factors become important. Also, as I said, there may indeed be some connection with those other factors, but I don't believe it's worth exploring. Viewing AGA as a disease would lead you to rationalize, erroneously, that something other than DHT and genetics really figures significantly in the solutions we pine for so desperately. IMO, the most productive discussion would be about the multifarious hormonal signals and cross-communications that regulate the hair cycle. Attacking DHT reflects an oversimplified understanding of these dynamics.

i never met anyone who got results like that without either being a fitness professional (means you'd have a diff job) or taking performance-enhancing drugs. I used to be very much into fitness and the best I could do was good but not that good because it wasn't my job and I wasn't taking anything. It can be achieved naturally, but, like I said, ppl rarely do it naturally. Here are things that will contribute to you hair loss: -creatine -prohormones -testosterone boosters -ant-estrogens -fat burning stimulants Indeed, even working out hardcore raises your testosterone somewhat. I'm not accusing you of anything, but I think you should know that almost anything you take will toast your hair. Stop taking it and get on finasteride and you might be able to recover a lot of the hair. I'm not really sure about HGH. That might not have an effect. It's being debated. Anyway, I know the feeling, man. We all do. I wish you the best of luck, brother. Taken

i don't think this subject will ever exit the realm of speculation. I don't believe we are wholly less healthy than we were 5000 yrs ago. Increased longevity illustrates my point. It's true that modern civ. brings new threats to our bodies that we might obviate if we reverted to more "natural" lifestyles; e.g, improved diet, increased exercise, less exposure to toxins, etc. It's possible there is a connection between the onset of MPB and modern lifestyles. AGA, in essence, has nothing to do with overall health. It's like growing beard hair. It's a genotype expressed as a phenotype once androgens are and have been prevalent up to some predesignated period of time. This does imply that gene expression and epigenetics, inasmuch as they relate to external influences, can provide insight on the timing and severity of MPB; but these are not the critical factors. This is not why it happens. But, interestingly, and much in support of exploring this question, the onset of puberty is demonstrably earlier in the past few generations than ever before, as far as science can tell. Again, this is a phenotype brought about by sex hormones just like MPB. Studies on the early onset of puberty may shed light on this, not that it matters. To think you could make actionable conclusions and effectively reduce or stop AGA seems absurd to me, no offense.

It has imaginary potential. I can't say that, statistically speaking, it wouldn't show some effect over a large enough population sample, but the same can be said for anything. Take any substance, apply it to the hair of a test population. I'd put every dime on the fact that, compared to a control group, a chi-square test would show some influence, positive or negative, on the test group. This has been done with things like green tea extract, caffeine, copper peptides, aloe, saw palmetto, emu oil, azelaic acid, etc. That doesn't make them effective treatments. I would go more with the anecdotal evidence from trusted sources, but I have seen nothing out there to make me waste my money on any of the above. I recommend you start .5mg finasteride. This will definitely benefit your hair and you may be lucky enough not to experience sides too badly. Propecia is hands down the best thing you can do for your hair. Just be aware of the sides and know that, if you can't hack it, you can always reduce the dose or stop taking it. It's best to experiment like this in the beginning so you don't end up in my situation, wanting to reduce the dose of a drug your hair is heavily dependent on. Good luck, broski

holy shizam. I want results like that. I lust for it. I wish Rahal wasn't in Ottawa, else I'd be in his office today, demanding he take my money. Those are the photos that reach right down to the bottom of your pockets. The OP has the most jealous congratulations I ever gave. Taken

There are books on the psychology of hair - not just in modern cultures, but in literature and ancient societies, too. Any competent lit teacher should be able to hold a discourse on it. I don't believe in the biological/evolutionary framework for explaining it. I believe the appeal of human hair is purely aesthetic; and, while scientists would try to explain human tastes (aesthetics) within the said framework, I believe this ancient philosophical topic embodies the aspect of humanity that separates it from all other known life forms. Thus, it cannot be explained by the biology of the natural world. It's that spark that distinguished cro-magnon from neanderthal and had him making beads, painting on cave walls, dancing around fire pits. And there is simply no way to evaluate the question objectively. That's the other thing about aesthetics. At any rate, the platonic "dianoia" of science lacks the scope to comprehend this stuff. The problem we spend our hard-earned money trying to avoid, REALLY, can be understood best, not within the framework of science, but within the framework of Plato's Republic, Books 6-7. The world is a confluence of cultures and religions dominated by "pistis" and "eikasia." The whole world is blissfully trammeled in a cave. Maybe we are, too. Taken

Blake, Thanks for your comments. I think this forum is super. Yeah, the fin gets to me. I bash it a lot, too, but it's hard not to come off as a disgruntled anomaly. But yeah, I'm sure you've seen that subject done to death, over and over. Actually, I do use 5% minox twice a day. It's not so bad once you acclimate to it, but it sucks when you're traveling or stuck with very little personal space. Also, checking out at Target def provokes double-takes. Finally, I cannot express my gratitude for the existence of this structured outlet for reviews and commentary on the HT process and those surgeons, renowned and ignominious, on whom we rely, whether or not they be reliable. As you can see, I have narrowed it down to three well-reputed doctors in my area. In closing this post, I ask for your recommendations on Midwest doctors to research. Aaron's point about traveling opened my eyes and I wish to continue the hunt. I see that the HRN recommends doctors nationwide, but your personal preference, perhaps expressed in confidence, would be an even more powerful endorsement. Your hair looks frikin awesome and i'm checking your profile after this, haha. Taken

Please note that I speak from my heart and have no intention of "making waves," if you will. And please excuse my flippant tone; I infuse my writing with flair. With no offense and all due respect and comity, I must assert that 1-2% is entirely false. Do I have proof? No. Propecia is an invaluable resource for fighting AGA. I'd be bald without it. But I can't read that 1-2% and not say something. People deserve to be better informed than that, in my humble opinion. And as far as my opinion is concerned, this is what I think - that a large minority of men will experience some degree of some of the following side effects when they take the drug. A not-inconsiderable minority will find these symptoms unbearable at 1mg/day. -decreased libido (boobs? what are those?) -tenderness and swelling of the breasts (excuse me miss, what size am I?) -decreased/watery semen -increased scalp hair (if you're a good responder) -soft erections/erectile dysfunction (that's a euphemism) -et friggin cetera (I suffer from et cetera myself) If you are considering taking finasteride, be aware that the "1-2%" stat is the same, LAME line pharm companies have been using since the inception of the FDA to fool consumers and the gov't into thinking their side effects are rare and not to be taken seriously. Last, look up "Post-Finasteride Syndrome." I don't personally believe it's a disorder in its own right, but I do know it iterates the experiences of thousands of unlucky men worldwide. Maybe they constitute 1%. Who knows. I think the best way to say it is that, probably, the number of men taking Propecia who don't experience sides to some degree are a minority or unimpressive majority. ps. I hope this post combined with others deriding my POV will instill a sense of cautious optimisim in potential Propecia consumers, instead of blithe oblivion. Taken

increased adipose tissue in the thighs, buttocks, lower back, groin, and lower chest; softer facial appearance; decreased muscle mass; increased water retention Things I've noticed on myself, though I doubt anyone other than my gf would have a good enough look to ever see. I used to be way into fitness and these things are more visible on me bc I have low bodyfat. I had a gyno excision (removal of the gland) 2 years ago because of the mammary tissue that grew and eventually I'll need lipo on the stubborn breast fat that blights my lower pectorals. The vast reduction in DHT from finasteride potentiated estrogen throughout my body. Really, that's the point. The side effects of a weaker androgen:estrogen ratio throughout the body amount to the proliferation of estrogen receptor positive tissues; e.g., breast tissue, fat on thighs and buttocks, and scalp hair. Propecia is marketed as a drug that acts directly on hair follicles. In reality, it's a drug that chemically castrates you and whose many side effects include increased scalp hair. jmo