Oral Min/Fin | My U.S. Doctor consultation

[GaryStruthers]

First off - I'm quite shocked after that 35min video call.

I just asked my GP for a prescription for 2.5mg of oral minoxidil and won't prescribe it. He went on to say that American doctors don't prescribe it due to the lack of conclusive studies pertaining to "hair loss." He is aware that I've been on 1mg Fin and topical Min successfully without sides for a year, and understands that I order those meds from an outside source. Of course I can grab oral Min whenever, from where ever, but I'm just surprised that the use of oral Min (Loniten) was so far off his radar!

We then discussed my up coming surgery and my medication stack that will continue post op he commented "Well you won't be on Finasteride for too much longer, aren't you 48?")

He is advising me to get off Finasteride before I'm 50 due to the masked prostate detection that the drug offers. Although I'm aware of this, along with many on this forum, I wasn't expecting such a hard line from a respected GP.

1) Are we all flying by the seat of our pants just to keep our hair?

2) Does my GP have a heavy dose of fear mongering?

3) Are there members here that have weighed these factors and are just hoping for the best?

Look forward to your thoughts on this. 

[Vann]

Wow that is very interesting. I would personally get a second opinion. Its really strange to hear that but perhaps renal issues are a common thing on your families side? Try getting some tests done as well to see if it would be an issue?

[GaryStruthers]

12 minutes ago, Vann said:

Wow that is very interesting. I would personally get a second opinion. Its really strange to hear that but perhaps renal issues are a common thing on your families side? Try getting some tests done as well to see if it would be an issue?

Yeah it's strange. He is aware that there is no family history of.........basically anything. I'm just wondering if this is just "US doctor rhetoric" and "FDA approval" etc. Not bashing him - Just trying to understand the US system. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

Wow I absolutely love your GP and would recommend staying with him as long as you can. Here's why:

It's absolutely true that numerous medicines and chemicals are introduced to the market without fully understanding the range of effects they have on our bodies. Yes we like to delude ourselves with the idea that the FDA catches everything in their "rigorous" testing protocols etc etc. But frankly that's a lot of hot garbage. Even stuff like talcum powder tha twas used for years on BABIES has been found to be fairly carcinogenic due to the chemical structure mimicking asbestos. So when you talk about taking a medication every day that will lower your blood pressure for basically the rest of your life you're kind of messing with stuff that ought not be messed with. I mean stop and think about it. By taking this drug you are literally lowering the pressure of the liquid life force that courses throughout your body, supplying every cell in you with what it needs. You're GP  has your best interests in mind. 

Also, check out this link https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-drugs-found-cause-side-effects-years-after-approval-n757526

This isn't to say that taking oral minoxidil is super harmful either. Maybe it's not.  But the problem is their is absolutely no way for you to know. Peer review (Which is often held on interweb discussion boards as some be-all-end-all) is frankly kind of a joke but we don't really have a better alternative. Google "replication crisis peer review" to see what I mean.

Sometimes its best to not trust peer review or media articles or internut forums and approach things from first principles thinking. AKA "Is it possible that by lowering the life force that cruises throughout my body every day for the rest of my life I will produce some negative effects that are far worse than losing my hair?". Answer carefully, not just with minoxidil but with everything. Is it worht the risk to you? If so then you can almost certainly find a different Doc to prescribe it to you. 

Primum non nocere. First do no harm. You can't expect your GP to know the full ramifications and interactions of every medicine in the world. But you can expect him (If he's good at what he does) not to prescribe something to you like oral min unless he truly has taken the time to dive deep into it. And even then consider that we really don't even fully know how or why min works so how are we really arrogant enough to think science has fleshed out all the potential ramifications? 

 

If you don't mind me asking, what country are you in?

Edited July 6, 2022 by GoliGoliGoli

[GaryStruthers]

6 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Wow I absolutely love your GP and would recommend staying with him as long as you can. Here's why:

It's absolutely true that numerous medicines and chemicals are introduced to the market without fully understanding the range of effects they have on our bodies. Yes we like to delude ourselves with the idea that the FDA catches everything in their "rigorous" testing protocols etc etc. But frankly that's a lot of hot garbage. Even stuff like talcum powder tha twas used for years on BABIES has been found to be fairly carcinogenic due to the chemical structure mimicking asbestos. So when you talk about taking a medication every day that will lower your blood pressure for basically the rest of your life you're kind of messing with stuff that ought not be messed with. I mean stop and think about it. By taking this drug you are literally lowering the pressure of the liquid life force that courses throughout your body, supplying every cell in you with what it needs. You're GP  has your best interests in mind. 

Also, check out this link https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-drugs-found-cause-side-effects-years-after-approval-n757526

This isn't to say that taking oral minoxidil is super harmful either. Maybe it's not.  But the problem is their is absolutely no way for you to know. Peer review (Which is often held on interweb discussion boards as some be-all-end-all) is frankly kind of a joke but we don't really have a better alternative. Google "replication crisis peer review" to see what I mean.

Sometimes its best to not trust peer review or media articles or internut forums and approach things from first principles thinking. AKA "Is it possible that by lowering the life force that cruises throughout my body every day for the rest of my life I will produce some negative effects that are far worse than losing my hair?". Answer carefully, not just with minoxidil but with everything. Is it worht the risk to you? If so then you can almost certainly find a different Doc to prescribe it to you. 

Primum non nocere. First do no harm. You can't expect your GP to know the full ramifications and interactions of every medicine in the world. But you can expect him (If he's good at what he does) not to prescribe something to you like oral min. 

If you don't mind me asking, what country are you in?

I’m in the States. I do respect his opinion on oral Minoxidil, and I’ll probably just stay on topical. It’s the Finasteride comment that got me!

[GoliGoliGoli]

One final point that has been on my mind: Something that bothers me a lot is the Kevin Mann types who go on their Youtube channels and talk confidently about "what researchers found" in a given peer reviewed study and then make proclamations based on it about people on sites like Propeciahelp.com being idiots and losers and incels 

Let me tell you, Kevin Mann is not that bright. I'm not even saying he's wrong about the conclusions he comes to regarding hair loss options. But he is a certified moron and his personality and proclivity for ad hominems at people who disagree with him proves it. Real scientists never talk about "what they found" or make broad conclusions from their studies or the breadth of studies on a given topic. Real scientists say things like "well the results of this study seem to indicate X" or "the breadth of research I've reviewed on this topic seems to show that Y". Anyone can analyze a peer reviewed study and break down the results but be careful with drawing set in stone conclusions on that. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by GoliGoliGoli

[GoliGoliGoli]

13 minutes ago, GaryStruthers said:

 It’s the Finasteride comment that got me!

Well I hear ya but this guy sounds like the man. How old is he if you don't mind me asking? He really seems to know his stuff and give a damn about his patients. 

Again just want to clarify: What you do with your body is up to you as far as I'm conerned. If fin and oral min is worth it to you or anyone else have it it brutha. But just consider that messing with your endocrine and cardiovascular systems are a big deal!!