DHT Levels before and after Propecia

[adamjimmy]

I've read the studies but am curious if any of you kind folks have taken blood tests before you started and concurrent to you being on propecia/fin? Obviously DHT results are the biggie but if you have any other sex hormone results to share, testosterone, estrogen, etc, I think it would be nice to get some concrete data.

I am not currently on propecia but have noticed a doubling of DHT every time I have been on creatine which most likely increased my hair shed rate. Would like to see how low the users levels are on fin. Thanks for your assistance.

[Ernie]

Just curious, how exactly did you monitor your DHT levels while taking creatine?

[adamjimmy]

I'm on testosterone replacement and do fairly frequent blood work up and I've noticed that those times that I've been on creatine it significantly jacks up my dht levels. I also notice a big jump in strength and find it easier to lose weight and gain muscle. Nothing's free apparently. I'm considering finasteride but would like to see what levels actual users have been showing if possible. Thanks.

[Alpine]

For males, DHT is significantly more androgenic than testosterone. It is the MOST potent male hormone and definitely can impact body composition, sex drive, strength, etc. If weight training and a lean muscular physique is a priority, I do not like the idea of wiping out DHT (and possibly increasing estrogen). To me, the use of a 5AR inhibitor was never worth it. I am into working out. I've just used topical minox/anti-DHT and it never helped anyway (shocker). If a male applies an exo DHT like the anabolic masteron, the body composition changes are drastic (and it murders the hairline). I ran finsateride for a short time when I first started thinning and got some nipple tenderness, the first sign of gyno. That was enough for me.

 

If you are on TRT and maintain high test but lower DHT and control E2, its probably a better situation for using a 5AR. But in a natty aging male with already lagging test levels, lowering DHT to me spells nothing good over time.

 

Its all priorities. What you value you more. I know many guys into bodybuilding that use finasteride and don't really complain of or notice any detrimental effects. Still, others say they felt "softer" in terms of their muscles and gained abdominal fat easier after many months of use. Anecdotal reports are all over the place. No doubts that exo DHT based AAS administration has a huge hardening/drying effect on muscle tissue appearance and is a natural anti-estrogen. Also no doubt that on paper and in real world, DHT is a profound hormone for males.

 

This study is FAVORABLE for finasteride. So while I am a bit biased and a fan on DHT for body comp and just being "male", I acknowledge the studies do not seem to be too bad. The problem with this study is if you give older men T, they are all going to improve performance and body comp - no shit. So the addition of F isn't expected to drastically alter that result. You only get to see T+F or T alone in this study. For a natty male with sub-par test levels, taking finasteride will actually slightly boost your free test serum levels (less converted to DHT) and raise estrogen as well - quite a bit in some cases. I think its reasonable to expect slightly higher estrogen and a little softer physique after a year. Most people are out of shape and wont notice anyway, frankly.

 

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf/10.1210/jc.2004-1933

 

The addition of F to T, which decreased serum DHT levels

by approximately 50% (13), did not affect gains in physical

performance, alterations in body composition, cholesterol, or

metabolic markers when compared with T alone in our

study. As reported previously (13), the addition of F to T

attenuated the age-associated increase in prostate size seen

in the placebo and T groups and prevented the increase in

PSA seen with T alone. In addition, there was no significant

difference in the incidence of prostate cancer in any of the

groups (13).

See also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14624915 (F and BMI, also encouraging but against the large weight of anecdotal observations seen out there) Edited January 6, 2017 by Alpine

[adamjimmy]

I agree. Fiddling with too many hormones is a tricky situation. Finasteride increases estrogen so people start adding aromatase inhibitors and the like and it becomes a vicious cycle of adjusting meds via lab results. I have found adding saw palmetto and discontinuing creatine puts my dht levels about mid range, as opposed to off the charts, which I hope will slow down my already rapid hair loss. Sadly I feel so much better with a really high dht but in the long run, for a number of reasons, keeping it mid range may be ideal. Thanks for weighing in with the scholarly stuff.