Washing hair with hair loss/ oil for dry scalp

[hopingforhair]

I've read through all the threads on washing hair and I'm surprised that there aren't more as I felt that this would be a common worry for men losing their hair. The consensus seems to be that washing hair will not speed up the hair loss process, is this true?

 

My post is kind of long so my main questions are: what mild shampoos are recommended to use along with the stronger ones and does anyone use oil on their scalp to loosen hardened skin?

 

I think I stopped washing my hair properly about 10 years ago when I started noticing hairs on my towel/ in the shower. After I started shedding I shaved my head to about a level 1 and its been that ever since. I used minoxidil and didn't really wash my hair properly and I think this is what has lead to my seborrheic dermatitis.

 

I'm genuinely scared to wash my hair properly, skin seems to build up and now when I'm looking into a hair transplant I can't get one until my skin is clean (which I guess is fair enough). I want to clean it but the skin is quite tough in some places. I use T-gel and sells blue and leave it in for at least 5 minutes. This loosens the skin but I think the water also weakens the hair so if I try to peel bits off I often lose hair with it.

 

I've noticed when it is hot and I've been out the night before my hair can get greasy but this seems to loosen the hard skin a bit. This is why I'm thinking using oil on my scalp can help me to clean it of this residual skin build up. Has anyone discussed this before? I'm still searching so might come across something on the forum.

 

In a weird way I've come to like the skin build up as it makes my hair look thicker but I know its not healthy and catch some people looking at it which can be embarrassing.. I want to clean it and get a transplant ASAP so that its not as noticeable that I've had work done so I'm trying to figure out my options. I was curious if I could have a smaller operation to see how it heals etc before I commit to a larger one but I'll start another thread on that.

 

Appreciate any replies!

 

Thanks.

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

Hey Hoping,

 

Good questions!

 

Shampooing won't really change your hair loss. Dirty scalp, clean scalp; really won't improve or worsen the DHT attack on your follicles. Now, a clean scalp will potentially experience less clogged pores and less ingrown hairs and focal folliculitis, which may draw more attention to the scalp but still won't change the thinning. I've heard differing things about oil changing the appearance of the hair you have left. Some will say it makes it look thicker, others will say it makes it look thinner.

 

It is worth noting, however, that androgenic alopecia can cause a sebaceous gland (oil gland) hyperplasia (growth), which may cause more grease to build up on the scalp. If this isn't something you want, frequent washing may be required.

 

Most shampoos are very similar. If you do have a lot of oil, dandruff, or maybe even seborrheic dermatitis, many will recommend specialized shampoos -- such as tar-based washes. The only shampoo that really affects androgenic alopecia -- if you are considering a preventive treatment -- is ketoconazole-based shampoos (like Nizoral).

 

It shouldn't really affect a transplant. However, you do need to keep the scalp clean after -- as this improves healing, decreases the chances of dislodging a graft with a scab (rare), improves appearance, etc, etc.

 

You could have a smaller operation before undergoing a larger operation if you'd like. Discuss your plan with your surgeon.

 

Hope this helps!

[hopingforhair]

Hey Dr Blake Bloxham,

 

Thanks for the reply it was very helpful, the enlarging of the sebaceous glands with androgenic alopecia makes sense to me as when I started losing my hair I noticed a big increase in the greasiness of my scalp. It seems whenever I wash it the greasiness will return a couple of hours later so I try to stick to washing it every two days as any more seems unecessary.

 

I have tried Nizoral but unfortunately it made my scalp very tight and I feel like it was counterproductive. The t-gel shampoo I currently seems to be agreeing with me for now so hopefully my scalp doesn get immune to its effects if thats possible.

 

I have taken pics of my scalp with the seborrehic dermatitus build up and then taken some more pics after cleaning an area to show that it can be removed and my scalp isn't damaged beneath it but the surgeon I showed it to wanted a full clean scalp before proceeding. I was disappointed as I live in the UK and his clinic in Belgium is highly regarded on this site so it would have been convinient for me but I'll contact a few more surgeons this weekend and see if I can get a smaller surgery on a clean area to understand heling times before commiting to a larger one.

 

Thank you for your advice!

[pkipling]

Just to be clear with what you're experiencing: Does you hair tend to be dry/flaky when you don't wash it, but when you do wash it, it gets oily? And are you saying that you actually like the build up on your scalp?

 

I have struggled with a dry/flaky/itchy scalp ever since I was a kid and have tried everything over the years to fix it. Literally none of the leading dandruff shampoos worked for me, no matter the strength I got. After years of experimenting with different solutions, I've finally come down to a few things that seem to work for me to keep my scalp clean/normal. (Not overly/dry or flaky, and not greasy either).

 

1) Apple Cider Vinegar - I use this when my scalp breaks out and gets itchy/painful from time to time. It clears it up almost instantly. I used to dilute it with water, but have recently started just applying it directly, to my scalp. The back of my scalp is my biggest problem area, so I'll just let the ACV soak there for a few minutes and then rinse it out. By the next morning, the itchiness/flakiness is gone.

 

2) Ovation Cell Therapy Shampoo - Yes, I heard about it on the radio. Yes, I know some people say it's a scam. And yes, my friends make fun of me for buying something from a satellite radio commercial. But all I know is it's been the only shampoo to keep my scalp from itching.

 

3) Paying attention to the products I use and learning which ones my scalp is allergic to. I bought a clay from Aveda a couple years ago for example that I ended up realizing I was allergic to for some reason. It would break my scalp out pretty bad, to the point of bleeding. Not fun. I have to be smart about what I apply to my scalp, and try not to put too much product as my scalp tends to throw a fit when I do.

 

Not sure if any of this is helpful. Ultimately, there should be no reason that you should have to live with either your scalp extremely dry or extremely oily. Keep experimenting with different things to see if you can find what works for you, and then learn to listen to your body/scalp if you realize that something you may be doing is causing the irritation. Unfortunately, there's no "one size fits all" solution for this. But I do think you should consider not purposely keeping the build up on your scalp. While I don't think the dandruff can cause MPB/permanent hair loss, I do believe that a healthy scalp leads to healthier hair.

[darlinglocks]

Hi hopingforhair,

 

As you are looking to contact different surgeons for HT, I recommend you check out this website

 

FUE Hair Transplant India - Darling Buds | Dr. Tejinder BhattiHair Transplant Cost in India, FUE Cost, Price

Ask for an online consultation, all your questions will be answered.

 

I had FUE 1524 grafts with Dr. Tejinder Bhatti in India and I am very happy with my choice.

Please, feel free to ask any questions.

 

Good luck in your search.

 

Darlinglocks

Edited July 31, 2015 by David - Moderator

[hopingforhair]

Hi pkipling, whenever I don't wash my hair my scalp gets very oily and tends to stay that way BUT it feels dry.. I know its weird but yes, I'd rather have the build up on my scalp than clean it off as it makes my hair look thicker. This is why I want a hair transplant and am going to try to convince the doctors that the build up can be removed fairly easy (with my before and after pics mentioned above), I just don't do it as it would make the results seem even more obvious which I want to try to avoid. Even reading this back I think I sound a bit crazy lol but I guess I have just got used to it over the years. With that said I know it needs to change and a hair transplant feels like my best hope.

 

I have tried the apple cider vinegar but as there is build up on my scalp it seemed to "hold" the smell and I couldn't wash it out properly. I will look into the ovation cell therapy shampoo but as you mention, I have learnt to listen to my scalp. My experience with Nizoral wasn't very pleasant and I continued to use it as I had heard such great things but eventually my scalp felt horribly tight all the time and I had to stop using it. I even tried to mix a bit of it with other milder shampoos but it still made my scalp overly dry.

 

I appreciate your help though, when I find something that works for me I'll defintely make sure I share my story in the hope it works for someone else becuase it can be so frustrating!

[hopingforhair]

Thanks darlinglocks, I have heard a lot of good things about Dr Bhatti so will be reading up more on him. How was your experience in general? Hotel/ service etc?

[darlinglocks]

Hi hopingforhair,

 

My experience with FUE Hair Transplant India - Darling Buds | Dr. Tejinder Bhatti was outstanding from the moment I arrived in India.

All my questions were answered before I decided to go and I never never felt pushed to choose them.

 

The driver picked me up at Chandigarh airport to the hotel. There is a possibility for the driver to pick you up in Delhi ( ask cost).

The office arranges your stay in the hotel ( several choices, several prices).

I chose a budget hotel super clean recommended by Dr. Bhatti and walking distance from the clinic at around $28 a night or Euros 25.

 

An assistant comes and pick you up to the clinic and return.

The day before the procedure, all will be explained to you in the afternoon or the morning of the procedure if your plane arrives late.

I didn't feel any pain at all during or after the procedure. You get medications to take at certain hours.

Next day, you'll go back, they do wash your hair, they explain everything to you and how to use the products for you hair.

If you are in doubt you can always call the clinic or go back to ask more questions or for a second wash.

The service is outstanding and the girls in his team are very nice, polite and professional.

In fact, you are ready to travel 2/ 3 days after the procedure. If you have time however, take the time to visit India.

The whole HT FUE procedure with travel cost, hotel and food is less expensive than all clinics in Europe, USA, Australia but with a TOP notch quality doctor.

Hair Transplant Cost in India, FUE Cost, Price

 

Even after your return to your country, service doesn't stop there. If you have a question, pictures to show, you just send them an email and you'll always get a reply.

Their service doesn't stop when your HT is done.

 

I wouldn't recommend any doctor if the service was just normal.

I felt in good hands, safe all the time while there. So, Yes I can only Higly recommend Dr Bhatti for his excellent FUE HT work.

 

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

 

I had FUE HT 1524 grafts with DR. Bhatti and very happy with my choice.

[pkipling]

Hi pkipling, whenever I don't wash my hair my scalp gets very oily and tends to stay that way BUT it feels dry.. I know its weird but yes, I'd rather have the build up on my scalp than clean it off as it makes my hair look thicker.

 

Hey bud. I'm having a hard time figuring out how the buildup could actually be a good thing. While an unhealthy scalp isn't necessarily a direct cause to hair loss/MPB, it is more difficult for hair to grow on an unhealthy scalp than a healthy one. A common analogy is to that of topsoil and grass: The thicker the topsoil, the better the grass will grow. It's the same for our hair. The better conditions we give our hair to grow in, the better it will grow.

 

I found an article online that states the following: "Healthy scalp skin with a normal pH and normal thickness of the epidermis and dermis will improve hair growth and/or decrease hair shedding."

 

The fact that the surgeons are even hesitant to do surgery on you with all the buildup you have is even further evidence to me that this probably isn't a good thing. I would address the buildup issue and work on getting your scalp clean and healthy first and foremost. I would even venture to say that by not dealing with the scalp issue, you would even put the success of any potential transplanted grafts at risk if you're not able to keep the buildup at bay while the new hairs are trying to grow.

[splitting hairs]

Hopingforhair,

 

I've suffered from seborrheic dermatitis for a number of years. I'm from the UK and all the products below are available in the UK

 

As others have said, you have to try a range of different shampoos and find out which ones work for you.

 

For me personally, most tend to cause irritation and only a few help.

 

The ones I have found are good: t\gel sensitive shampoo containing salicylic acid 3℅ to remove scale and build up.

 

Toni & guy 2in1 anti dandruff shampoo containing pyrithione zinc.

 

Cocois ointment containing coal tar, salicylic acid and sulphur. Apply and leave on overnight under a shower cap then wash out in the morning. This has been the best treatment for me and removes scale overnight.

 

In addition speak to you GP about seeing a dermatologist if possible.

 

You should also get a topical steroid for flare ups such as betnovate scalp application.

 

Hope this helps

[hopingforhair]

Thanks for the detailed reply darlinglocks! It sounds like you had a good experience and if I decide to have a larger transplant I think I will go to Dr Bhatti.

 

Did you travel on your own? I suppose the advantage of going there would also be that you could see a bit of the country like you said however what about healing times? I am a bit worried about flying when the transplanted areas are still healing. This would definitely be the main advantage for me if I could have it done in Europe.

[hopingforhair]

Hey pkipling, I know it is a weird concept lol. Basically I think it comes down to the fact that I wear my hair very short (0.5 on the sides and pretty much the same on top) so I can get away with the build up almost looking like its part of my hair? I do clean parts of it here and there but I think I'm so worried about the extent of my hairloss that to clean it all would be a big shock for me and would also make any hair transplant I have a lot more noticeable which is one of the main things I want to avoid.

 

Ideally, I want to convince a surgeon that it can be fully cleaned but for me to only do this a few days before surgery for those reasons. I thought it would be possible to gradually do this- clean part, get surgery, let it heal and then go for another but I see that this isn't really an option. To clean my whole scalp is what needs to happen first which is dissapointing.

 

I have been taking propecia for the last few months and I'm hoping that will strengthen some of my existing hair or even start to grow it back again, so far I think it is haveing some beneficial effect and I haven't noticed any sides- I've been going to the gym more in an attempt to counteract any effect lower DHT might have in my body and this is obviously having a general good effect on my health.

 

I think you are right about the 'keeping the build up at bay' affecting transplanted hairs. The build up is largely due to my thinking that I'd rather have this here than loose more hair/ reveal more scalp.. so if the new hairs were strong I would have no problem washing that area properly as I know these hairs won't be falling out.

[hopingforhair]

Thanks splitting hairs, those suggestions are very helpful! I have been using t-gel therapeutic shampoo which I think is the main tar-based one that they have but I havent heard of the sensitive shampoo so I'll check it out. My GP isn't great I get very frustrated with them as, I do understand it is their job, but they assume that I have not researched or read up on things and are going to them with a blank mind so it gets frustrating when they prescribe me ketoconazole based shampoos even though I explain they have dried my scalp out in the past.

 

Out of curiosity, how often do you wash your hair? Do you leave it in for around 5 minutes like they suggest or less/longer? Have you ever used oil to soften the scales and then remove them? Ive read this on the internet a lot and have tried it to some degree of success.

 

What is the consistency of the Cocois ointment like? If my hair was thicker/stronger I have no doubt I would be able to control the condition but as removing the scales often removes some hairs with it I think this must be having quite a large influence on my reluctance to keep it as clean as possible.

[darlinglocks]

Hopingforhair,

To answer your question: Yes, I had a good experience with my 1524 grafts FUE procedure done by DR. Bhatti.

I did travel on my own and there is absolutely no problem to travel and stay in Chandigarh on your own.

Healing time is quite fast.

You can just walk or visit around next day without any pain, any problems from the surgery at all.

You just have to take good care of those grafts and if you feel like travelling home 2 days after the procedure it is really not a problem. If you have some free time, just take it to discover India.

Feel free to ask any other question.

[hopingforhair]

Thanks darlinglocks, I haven't been on the forum for a while as I was seeing if I could learnt to live with it but I think I want to take the risk as if it all works out I know I'll be so much happier!

[darlinglocks]

Hello hopingforhair,

 

It is good to take a step back sometimes and wait a bit, before just jumping quickly into a procedure.

I would advise you to get an online consultation or Skype consultation with a few surgeons of your choice. Check their website and compare results in pictures, videos, recommendations and cost!

I know you mentioned you probably would go with Dr. Bhatti so if you need more information about the procedure, doctor, team, clinic please feel free to ask.

 

Darlinglocks

FUE: 1524 Grafts with Dr. Tejinder Bhatti

 

Hair Restoration Social Network ? Community for and by Hair Loss Patients - Dr Tejinder Bhatti's Profile

Edited October 21, 2015 by darlinglocks