Crown Hair Piece

[Time to do something]

In the next few months I’m going to be removing my hairpiece which covers the top of my head from forehead to crown. I had several hair transplants and those combined with concealer and possibly SMP will give me enough of an illusion of density to move forward. In order to maximize my grafts for the most density they were used on the bald area from the forehead to just before the crown. The crown is slick bald so I’m planning on wearing a small crown hair piece there about the size of a baseball. I know others have done this with success but can anyone out there offer me some tips on how to make this work and blend it to make it look natural? My stylist says she can do it but I want to be able to offer her tips from others who have gone through this and have experience with it. Thanks!

[the-bald-reality2012]

TTDS,

 

I think it's a great idea to ditch the wig and just try the natural approach for a while. I know this might be a stretch, but the wig may be getting in the way of your natural hair growth. Why don't you just let your hair grow out and use the Kabooki for the rest of the year just to give it a try? Give your hair 9 months of wig free growth.

 

After about a year, consider limited SMP to the crown region. If after 10 years your head turns blue back there, then you can use a crown hairpiece to cover it up. Of course, I am still opposed to the whole idea of SMP. I think you can pull this off without anything else except what Shapiro gave you (I do give him serious props for giving you the free work) and the cocealers. But you are addicted to HT's (as we all are on this website) so it might help you out.

 

I read your last email carefully and it seems to me like you are slowly reaching the point of complete realization that I did after about 6 years. That realization was that this whole game is a scam. Propecia stops working in most cases after about 5 years. Rogaine barely works at all. In the end, the only thing you are left with is transplants and it's just not enough.

 

Epstein is a fraud. He should have done the right thing and turned you away right then and there. The road from where you were to where you wanted to be was impossible. Your goal as you stated was to have more hair than scalp visible. It was never going to happen even if all the grafts grew in.

 

Honestly, you need to take a lot of the picture you see on this website with a huge grain of salt. There are a lot of these so-called success stories that use concealer (and lots of it!). No one here who has gone full NW5 has more hair than scalp visible. Even The Emperor in his posts was accusing Jotronic of using concealer. Don't believe everything you see posted here.

 

There will come a point, as you keep reading and researching this whole HT thing, when you realize that the addiction is to the feeling of empowerment of doing something. It's the same thing that led Michael Jackson to butcher himself when he was first diagnosed with vitiglio. It is the root of addiction to plastic surgery. Paying for the feeling of control. It's how the HT industry has gotten all our money over the years.

 

You have a good job working in tech and a commercial orange grove (according to your profile). Sounds real cool and interesting. There are other parts to you than all of this HT BS.

 

Concentrate on those other parts of who you are and watch people begin to react to you completely differently. A lot of the changes you are looking for need to come from inside yourself. I know because I need to work on those very same things myself. Everyone on this site does.

Edited April 28, 2012 by the-bald-reality2012

[Davis91]

BR2012,

 

I hear what you are saying in your post, but isn't reality somewhere in-between?

 

Dr. E may have cleary done wrong by this patient. OK, what is the next tactical move by TTDS? Accept fate and move on? He is fighting a rear-guard action to correct a mistake, and un-like say hitting someone with a car when drunk or cheating on a spouse, this mistake may be partly fixable.

 

I think at some point you are right, there needs to be an "OK, this is the best it will be, let's move on moment," but TTDS is not quite there yet. Yes, it may be similar to your journey and you are trying to shorten this for our man, but at the end of the day he has to go through the steps.

 

I full agree that some resutls here have to be taken with a grain of salt. But for others, it seems HTs can acheive their goals. Sure, ideal conditions may be like a stable NW3 at age 50 with good donor region, etc., and a dense pack in front. Those are easy to get results with a good doctor. But look at how soem of the best can transfrom an NW6 like H&W. They document those results very transparently and present the reality of results. So do a lot of others here.

 

And yes, the ethics of some doctors can be questionable. Most fail when there is a breakdown in setting expectations or delving into the psychology of the patient. Even without bad intent, there are docs here who are just not good at that aspect. There is no real training for this.

 

On the other hand, be careful about making accusations against those who are the good guys. Joetronic has been very clear that he never uses a cover up and in the few instances he did, it was to demonstrate and educate. The man even took us into his shower in a video. Come on...that is dedication to the craft.

 

Anyway, just to say to TDTS: it is a tough road. You are fighting the good fight. At some point you know it will not be perfect but as close to good as you'll get. WHEN you get to that point, I hope you can be more content and happy. Sure, it will never fully leave your thoughts, but that is OK so long as you can be happy and productive.

[the-bald-reality2012]

Davis91,

 

As with everyone else, I appreciate the comments. However, I think for the sake of TTDS, I'm going to stop commenting on his posts. My goal is to get him to see what I saw - that in the vast majority of cases, there is no optimal result for a NW5 based on any reasonable person's expectations.

 

I'll make one last effort to make this 100% clear. But like others I too will get worn down over time repeating myself to you guys. Still, here I go again trying to put forward the perspective that any reasonable person (not part of the HT cult) would have.

 

Thinking that you can fill 100% of an area with 25% of it's original coverage is pure madness. Telling patients that Propecia will stop their hair loss when in many, many cases it will stop working in about 5 years, is purely deceptive. Embarking on a dangerous and expensive goal fraught with risks and unknowns is both insanity and mendacity. And this is the insanity and mendacity that HT doctors like Epstein offer patients like TTDS and myself and pretty much everyone on this site. Any reasonable person, if properly explained what will happen in the long run, will emphatically reject HT's as a solution. And, yes, I am saying that there are a lot of unreasonable people who get HT's (I know because I was one before I came to realize the truth). HT doctors prey on these unreasonable people to get their cash in exchange for hope (Propecia, hair multiplication, etc.) and illusion (the failed illusion of density, manipulated pictures, and unrepresentative cases).

 

The failure of HT's is obvious to a reasonable person that hasn't drunk the Kool-aid.

 

90% of everyone here is going to eventually go NW5 or 6, including the few select success stories that end up as patient reps and cheerleaders (Jotronic and others). There are a ton of guys deluding themselves thinking they've got hair when it's nothing but a few weeds on their heads. Their apperance is purely embarassing. I've seen the pictures so I know. A life savings in exchange for a crappy combover. Those are success stories that no reasonable person would want to be. Not when you can look as cool as Bruce Willis, Andre Agassi, Jason Statham, Patrick Stewart, etc. by just shaving it down. Imagine those guys with HT's. Where the hell was the hair supposed to come from? How would they look now? Picture them with a long linear scar around their heads. Because that's how most people who get HT's are going to look like in the long run.

 

The expectation that TTDS was going to get more hair than scalp was unrealistic and unreasonable. Epstein should have turned him away knowing the risks of dissatisfaction (and taking into account his poor track record from 2005 onwards). I am honestly trying to help TTDS come to grips with this truth. Yet all I seem to be doing is bringing more attention to myself.

 

You talk about a rearguard action and helping TTDS explore his options. So what do you recommend? More hair transplants? Tatooing his scalp? Tell me what you see as those options you're talking about. I'm at least telling him to consider limited SMP if he wants to feel empowered, even though I honestly tell him it's a waste of time and money. So what do you suggest? What's the solution?

 

It seems to me like all the responses to my post start with TTDS and end up as pro-HT monologues. If you feel that TTDS has good solid hair restoration avenues, then please state them. I don't think he needs to do anything further. I think he looks good enough as it is. So what do you think he should do? Cut into his scalp further? More useless medicines and fraud treatments?

Feel free to let us all know.

 

I'm just trying to let TTDS begin to accept what any reasonable person can see:

 

The results posted on this and other websites fall into two categories: 1. falsifed pictures; 2. unrepresentative results. It's so easy to post up a few successful cases and extend that argument to everyone else. The combined risk of short and long-term failure in these surgeries is extremely high in most cases. You can keep glossing over that fact by citing a few success stories but my story and TTDS' story and the stories of countless others argue against it. The actual success stories (based on the perceptions of a reasonable person) are a drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds of thousands of guys walking around with a few weeds on their heads and long linear scars in the back.

 

We can go on about this forever. I'll point out the simple math and science that makes HT's a bad idea. Then you guys will say that there are lots of documented cases of success stories. You'll completely ignore all of the disatisfied patients (The Emperor, Kevchristy, Female Hair Loss, John R, etc. etc.) who poured their life savings into a failed enterprise.

 

Simple fact:

 

THE HT FAILURES STATISTICALLY WAY OUTNUMBER THE SUCCESS STORIES IN THE LONG RUN. AND MOST MEN WILL EVENTUALLY REGRET THEIR HT's. THOSE THAT DON'T WILL MOST LIKELY BE FOOLISH OLD MEN WITH LOW STANDARDS OF SELF-IMAGE WHO LOOK RIDICULOUS TO EVERYONE BUT THEMSELVES.

 

It's just that simple. Any reasonable person can look at the back of a bald person's head and see that. Take it our leave it.

 

Like others, you won't respond to this post. You won't answer the questions:

 

1. WHAT SHOULD TTDS DO?

 

2. WHAT OPTIONS ARE TRULY AVAILABLE TO HIM AT THIS POINT?

 

I'm trying to get him to come to the final realization that he's a good person. That he's done enough. That he looks good enough. That if he concentrates on the other aspects of his already successful life, he will be happy. That the mistake was in going for HT's in the first place, but that he has already successfully moved past that mistake. It's just time to move on.

 

That is the advice any reasonable person would give.

 

So what advice do you have...?

Edited April 28, 2012 by the-bald-reality2012

[Davis91]

BR 2012,

 

With regard to TTDS, I actaully agree that he should let this latest round grow out, assess where he is at, and then IF he actually feels the need to, go rock that small hair piece and/or consider micropigmentation (although I also believe that there are too many questions than answers about SMP or whatever you want to call it). TTDS, I would also add that your rearguard action has been a brilliant fight and at the end of the day, keep working with ethical docs like Shapiro who want what is best for patients, assess the options, and then call it a day after the final leg. You have already done very well.

 

BR2012, we acually are closer in opinion than observed. Like you, the realization of certain limitations are now coming after the fact for me. And if your observations were limited to the conditions sought by our man--NW5--more hair than scalp, etc.--then I would not put up too much of an argument. There are only a few clinics that could really attempt to help and NW6 or NW5 and expect a potentialy good outcome. And while I certainly am not a cheerleader for the industry, I do not like to see extreme views when reality--as observed by reasonable person(s)--is likely in-between.

 

How many people end up NW5/6's/7/s? You stated the majority of people on this site. What is the general population statistics for this? I am sure there must be data out there? With today's methods, take an NW4/3 and dense pack them in, and likely they can achieve a very realistic result. But the sense I am getting is that across the board you are condeming HTs as a practice? That the results we see that are good represent a minority of overall cases that actually work?

 

In this case, yes, the whole thing would be a pretty blanted fraud and indeed an overpriced one at that. That is the danger here--there are maybe a handful of ethical doctors and patient advisors, and by ethical, I mean they sit there patient down and tell them that even under the best case scenario, you can expect "x" result.

 

But what is "reasonable?" It is a free market. People choose to spend their savings in whatever manner they see fit. It is NOT reaonable to expect everyone to be able to pull off a Bruce WIllis, Patrick Stewart, etc.. I see so many white shaved heads nowadays and half of them look like they are cancer victims. Just because it is vogue to shave heads nowadays does not mean everyone should do it. Yes, it is a chearper fromof empowerment, but it may not be the best. HT's have been around in some form since what, the 50s? This issue has "plagued" man for 1000s of years, and society places whatever value it does on youth and beauty (and hair). Recent studies show hair loss is THE number one insecurity for men.

 

And while societal norms play a large part, you can argue that rocking a positive attitude and buff body makes you a winner no matter what. And you would be right...but here is where we disagree. Technology IS changing all of the time in this industry. While we cannot expect hair cloning for some time, there are improvements in how HTs are done. For those of you who know Carlos Wesley's work (which he will talk toy ou about in person if you visit), his forthcoming evolution in HT surgery will likely be a game changer. This is progress. Where there is a market, there is competition, and we are in a better place now than ever before in this industry to acheive decent results.

 

So...I don't like it any more than you. Don't like Docs saying combine propecia with HTs; don't like docs on this site who are cited as having high standards when the reality is it is a business and they do not turn away patients enough. Don't like the linear scar, white FUE dots, the worry, heartached and cash out the door. But I still will not condemn a whole industry which is simplpy responding to market demand, and I certainly believe sites like this are a step in holding docs to account. And I certainly don't want folks like Joetronic whole has done more to ETHICALLY educate folks thrown in by accusations by proxy of deceiving us. At the end of the day, the truth lies somewhere in-between your view and the extreme pro-cheerleaders. And I think that is what most reasonable people would see.

[the-bald-reality2012]

Davis91,

 

Of all the replies to my comments, yours actually comes closest to trying to defend HT's.

 

But you still try to deny the fundamental truth. For example, your comment on NW5/6/7.

 

How many men go NW5/6/7? Go to nearest nursing home and tell me how many don't go NW5/6/7. Come on, man. You're being delusional if you think a study is needed to point out the most obvious fact. Any reasonable person can see the transformation of someone like Bruce Willis over the years to see that the higher reaches of NW scale is in most cases unavoidable. I'm sure Rassman would have told Bruce otherwise back in the 90's when he wanted to slice into his head (and that was in the era before micrografts!).

 

Look, I'm all about free will and choice. But HT doctors and clinics deprive the patients of this choice by not being completely honest with them. I'm sorry, but even the best clinics talk around the isssue. What does this mean? It means they talk about the science hair loss, the science of HT's, and what can be done. They don't paint the situation in the starkest possible terms.

 

Why don't HT doctors just say this before the first procedure?

 

"You suffer from male pattern baldness. In the end, we are trying to take a little strip of hair and cover all of your scalp. The hairs we transplant will age and thin so the cosmetic benefit may be limited. In short, you may be investing in a glorified combover. The donor scar will (not maybe) widen over multiple procedures and leave you feeling uncomfortable in the back of your head. If you go for FUE, you will have much less grafts available. In addition, FUE leaves little white scars so you won't really be able to shave your head (in most cases).Overall, hair transplants are extremely limited as a means of hair restoration. In the end, you may not be satisfied with the results. If you are not, you will spend the rest of your life regretting it and worrying about your future hair loss. We will also not refund you your money. If you just shave your head, you will have to deal with none of this. So would you like to roll the dice on a hair transplant?"

 

If they said something like this, then the true HT patients could be treated and the rest of us could go about our lives in peace and happiness. The HT industry exploits our short-term insecurites and makes no effort to inform us of the long-term risks. That is a fact. A doctor or patient rep can explain to an insecure man the limitations, but it will be "in one ear and out the other" unless that man really knows the dangers and risks of what he is doing.

 

And as for Carlos Wesley? Give me a break with that. I'm not a greenback that knows nothing about HT's. I'm a veteran of this nightmare that can cut straight through all the smoke and mirrors.

 

I went to Wesley's website and checked it out. The guy is offering the same old story. In bold letters: HE IS OFFERING NOTHING NEW! Wesley calls it Scarless Surgery but it's pretty much FUE that he claims is better. There was nothing in his video presentation or the FAQ that said anything new. In fact, in the FAQ it states that Wesley treats men and women as early as 18 years old. We both know that is completely unethical. The guy is a fraud like the others. There is no surgical revolution. There is nothing. So maybe he can take the hairs out a little better. So what? He still has no answer for the limited donor supply. He has no answer for the thinning and whitening of the hair. The long-term reality is still the same. A lot of money, time and energy for a few weeds.

 

I still remember when I used to be such a fool for the smoke and mirrors of these doctors and their presentations. I'd actually look at the donor region and be convinced there was enough hair there to provide real coverage. Misdirection (as in all rackets) is the trick to the HT game. They get you looking at all of this "science" and get you to ignore the fact that it's a tiny strip of hairs (that will eventually age and thin) that they will be placing on top of your head. It is this misdirection that is the source of the fraud. A patient is taking colossal risks and spending a fortune for very limited returns. The way HT doctors present these facts does not let an insecure man see this clearly, thus leading him to choose HT's as opposed to walking away. Like they say in the HT industry, the hardest sale is the first one. Once the first sale is done, the patient is locked in like a junkie and has to keep coming back for more.

 

 

That's the simple truth. Take it or leave it.

 

I appreciate you agreeing with me on all the major points. And, for the record, I never once accused Jotronic of being deceitful. I simply told TTDS that another member going by the handle "The Emperor" did. If you want to read posts from a dissatisfied "success" story at Hasson and Wong, The Emperor's posts are there for you to read. He was dissatisfied but they told him he was a success story and then cut ties with him. He was the one that was upset. He was the one that made all the comments about Jotronic. Not me.

 

Finally, I do appreciate this website and the freedom of speech it provides. I am simply an extreme for of Devil's advote. The major points of the risks of HT's need to be hammered again and again into the skulls of insecure men BEFORE their first procedure. This way the best candidates can be culled from the rest of the men that should be rejected. At the end of the day, a good HT candidate has to be prepared for the possible (and, in many cases, inevitable) poor cosmetic benefits of HT's as a means of hair restoration.

Edited May 5, 2012 by the-bald-reality2012

[Davis91]

BR2012

 

One quick question (by the way, you are an excellent writer, very well spoken): when you discuss wanting shave one's head, are you talking Bruce Willis slick or a very short buzz? (Both of which are may be problematic or impossible with FUT/FUE).

 

By the way, the point on Wesley: his website does not reveal his new method in practice. I have seen his prototype work. You are right, it will not negate total donor availability isues, but it will do everything he says it will on is checklist vs. FUE.

[the-bald-reality2012]

Davis91,

 

I appreciate your contributions to the discussion. Your posts are definitely helpful and informative to others.

 

And thanks for the comment on my writing. I guess I write well on this topic because I really want others to understand what it is all about. Young men really need to know what they are up against. It's a war they are not going to win in the long run, unless they plan on dying young before they get real old.

 

The correct term for what hair transplants provide is not the "illusion" of density but the "delusion" of density.

 

The picture below represents the before and after of 2189 grafts performed on a 57 year old guy that was a 5A. That's about $10,000 to $12,000 worth of implants. And the work was done by Carlos Wesley. You can check the pics out on Hair Transplant Network where he posted them up.

 

Now you tell me. Is that worth it? Look at how little 2200 grafts represents. There is barely any difference between the pictures. What advanced procedures does Carlos Wesley have that is going to make something out of nothing? I wonder how this man felt after seeing these results. Did he feel happy? Satisfied? If he did, then hair transplants are truly for the delusional. There is no real cosmetic difference between the left and the right. Only someone delusional would think there was. Probably, the old man just shrugged his shoulders and said, "Well, it was worth a shot."

 

If Carlos Wesley is proud of work like this and willing to post it up, he too is delusional. I think the correct and ethical thing to do would be to turn this man away and not take his money. Clearly, the cosmetic benefit is practically nil. But as I said, HT doctors prey on men's insecurities and desperation to take action. Wesley needs to keep the staff paid and the lights turned on, and so he gives this man the "delusion" of density and that, as they say, is that.

 

So the answer to your question of how low to shave the hair is simple. At the end of the long struggle with hair loss, Mother Nature is going to give most of us just one choice: shave it down.

 

We can all accept it now without a scar, or deal with it later with a huge scar. FUE can help to a point but to get optimal grafts, you will have to harvest hairs (from the base of the neck and sides) that will eventually die later. In the end, you will end up right where you started. And you will not be able to shave down because of all the little stipled scars. In fact, many of those scars will be visible as they were taken from areas that eventually thin out.

 

In the end, the pictures below speak for themselves.

 

Wesley (like every other HT doctor) offers no miracles, no game changers. Until someone comes up with a way of not only cloning new hairs, but making them young, strong and thick again, this will be the same nightmare repeated in HT patient after HT patient, generation after generation.

 

The pictures below represent the unvarnished truth of what most likely awaits those undergoing these incredibly risky procedures. It is why I say, in the end, most men are going to regret their HT's in the long run.

 

 

[Davis91]

BR 12,

 

Well, certainly cloning (and cloning in the terms you described) is the only real answer. And we are likely a decade away at best to get something to a testing stage in humans, and likely 5 more year after that to the market--at the earliest. So another generation will pass.

 

Really, I have no stake in the game for Dr. Wesley. As stated, his new procedure does not magically produce new donor sources, it just will eliminate some of those scarring issues. Imagine and NW3 or 4 who can max out his donor via this new method, get 15-20 years of good use and then when he thins out he can shave down without FUE scars. By the way, I actually think Dr. Wesley's posts on his website (before/after pictures) are more honest than most--you look at some of them and think--"that's it?" I saw the same amount over at x or y's website and it looked better!" With the fellow you posted--yep, that is a minimal cosmetic improvement, and one could argue it is even less appealing than his pre-state.

 

Listen, we are probably in the same boat--I had a transplant 9 months ago and am waiting to the 12 month mark to post up the results. It was FUT--and I am really beginning to see the issues down the road that you have been referring to. (And this is with a highly praised "elite" doc as describe don this website). Again, even in my heightened state of nervousness, I still view the middle road as correct--for some candidates--carefully screened (rarely happens)--this business is fine. You have noted elsewhere that you represent one end of the spectrum. I represent a middle ground (in my mind). I would like to propose we make a new thread because I believe that you have very good points and I hope I have a few too, but I want to recall our friend TTDS, who seems to be heading towards SMP anyway via another post (which I hope he does not, but that is my opinion). This was his show. Shall we pop up a new one, perhaps titled "The Great HT Debate 2012" to coincide with the kick-off of election season?

[Time to do something]

Considering I do not look good with a shaved head, I don't have enough density to be cosmetically acceptable and I'm out of donor supply what would you suggest I do so I can remove my hair piece? I'm open to suggestions. The only thing I can think of is concealer and SMP. SMP won't come off while swimming like a concealer. After a lot of research the only negative I can find about SMP is that it can fade in three to four years. It doesn't turn some odd color but it simply fades

[Davis91]

TTDS,

 

Sorry, did not want to discourage. YOu can always try SMP and then if you are not satisfied the hairpiece or concelors are there still, so it is just a matter a laying out some cash. Keep us updated when you do the SMP though?