Guest Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Anyone had some hair growth from taking HGH suppliments or can it cause more hairloss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Anyone had some hair growth from taking HGH suppliments or can it cause more hairloss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Griswald Posted February 17, 2003 Regular Member Share Posted February 17, 2003 HGH supps will not cause hair loss. Actually, you could try an Anmino Acid Stack of: L-Arginine L-Ornithine L-Lysine Glutamine Glycine All of these together can cause you to release Growth Hormones naturally by taking on an empty stomach at bedtime. I have tried this, but I also take DHEA. To counter the extra testosterone I take Saw Palmetto to prevent the DHT conversion. I also take Indole 3-Carbinol and Miraforte to convert the bad estrogen to weak estrogen, (this prevents the man breasts) for the extra estrogen that will get through... An unfortunate problem with taking anything causing extra testosterone in men, is we will also get the DHT conversion and estrogen... My point??? My hair did start filling in the crown area and top and I do not take propecia. However, because I take the Saw Palmetto, which is the same as propecia, that could have caused the hair growth... I would recommend HGH releasers in the form of amino acids for anyone wanting to benefit from them... Griswald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member theofani Posted February 17, 2003 Regular Member Share Posted February 17, 2003 Did I miss something? Is this really true? Has anybody else had similar success with Saw Palmetto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member HarryLemon Posted February 17, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted February 17, 2003 Does taking: L-Arginine L-Ornithine L-Lysine Glutamine Glycine ...really make you release growth hormones? Is that what HGH does, but cheaper?? Where can I read up on that, please? Thanks, HarryLemon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Saw Palmetto has been used for a long time as a natural treatment for enlarged prostate because of it's action on DHT, similar to finasteride, but I'm not sure if studies have been done to see sawpalmetto's effect on hairloss as have studies on finasteride. Theoretically, it should work. But there may be other variables involved. Proscar, which has been around for years for the treatment of enlarged prostate, is what started this whole thing with finasteride for hairloss. Those taking it for prostate had a side effect of growing hair. Researchers realized it was because of the control of DHT. Bodybuilders using steroids in the early '80's were using Proscar for hairloss way before Propecia, which is just finasteride in a different dosage than Proscar. If I was going the natural route, which I'm not, I would try sawpalmetto. Btw, Proscar technically cannot be prescribed by docs for hairloss as they can for Propecia even though it's the exact same shit and costs a hell of alot less. Since I am at the age for risk of enlarged prostate, I can get Proscar covered by my insurance, as long as there is no mention of hairloss as a diagnosis. Crazy, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 You can buy the aminos together in what are called HGH enhancers. I just started using a product called PROhgh, but there are others. I notice you live in L.A. like me. Try a place on Romaine just west of Vine, cheaper and have more knowledgeble staff than most. Does this stuff work for hairloss? Some say it does, but I take it for weightlifting purposes. It's supposed to increase lean mass and cut down fat just like real hgh. I have read conflicting info if the enhancers work. Real hgh is extremely expensive (read article in yesterday's L.A. Times). I'D save my money if you're taking enhancers just for hairloss. Testosterone Nation website is your best source of info for this stuff. Hardcore bodybuilders are usually at the forefront of the latest news regarding the above. That website complements this one because they talk about androgens, estrogens, DHT...the whole bit. When you're taking stuff like Propecia, you're affecting your androgen/estrogen balance which in turn affects muscle, fat and water retention, etc.. That's why you're hearing guys on this forum taking finasteride complaining of weight gain, bloating, bitch tits, etc..My feeling is that if you're going to take finasteride, it'll help out alot to learn as much as you can about offsetting it's side effects. Working out with resistance training helps this balance and will make you look sharp when you do get your HT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Griswald Posted February 17, 2003 Regular Member Share Posted February 17, 2003 theofani In europe, Saw Palmetto is used to treat Prostate enlargement(BPH). Proscar inhibits 5-alpha-reductase levels, thereby suppressing the formaytion of DHT. Saw Palmetto extract suppresses some DHT in the prostate gland, but it's effectiveness is in blocking alpha-adrenergic receptor sites and it's inhibition of estrogen binding to prostate cells (like Nettle extract) and it's inhibition of the enzyme 3-ketosteriod which allows the binding of DHT. The short of it, yes Saw Palmetto is a natural alternative to Proscar and has been around a long time for that purpose. It stands to reason that it would also grow hair or stop hair loss. There are lots of articles and studies on this. For me, I do know what caused my hair loss to be stopped. HarryLemon Yes... Talking the Amino Acid Stack I mentioned will definetly cause your Hypothalamus Gland to cause your Pituitary Gland to release it's daily supply of HGH and unless your Pituitary Gland is malfunctioning, you still have enough daily supply to bring you back to levels when you were young. The problem with all of us who are aging and out of shape, it does'nt want to release the daily supply without help. This has to do with hormone levels slowing lowering as we age. Yes it works your like HGH injections, but naturally. It can also be measured with a blood test for IGF-1. I have been using these Amino Acids since July of 2002 with amazing results. My energy levels have been restored, I am not sick anymore, people and family have told me I look much younger and ask what I'm doing and yes, my hair started growing. I do not know why. It could be this stack, it could be lysine by itself, it could be the Saw Palmetto and Nettle extract. I do not know. But my crown area and back of my head have definitely started growing hair. I even have several wild hairs in the very front (approx 20) that I have not seen for twenty years. Go figure. Is it enough to think I will grow my hair back? No. but it looks like it has stopped my hair loss. Many good books and Doctors doing studies on anti-aging. Two really good books are: "Grow Young with HGH" by Dr Ronald Klatz "Ulitimate Anti-Aging Program" by Gary Null, Ph.D. Also, I use the Life Extentions Site to get my Amino Acids www.lef.org, something I did not discover until I was already taking my amino stacks. Interesting enough, this site also totally agrees with most of the mainstream thinking around anti-aging. This is where I also ordered by Blood tests to check my results... This is not for everyone, but for me I really believe it has given me new life... If you are interested in my full regiment and amounts I take, I would be happy to give those to you. Griswald... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member NW Posted February 17, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted February 17, 2003 I like your routine of trying to keep DHT in check, but also staying in top shape....I too work-out regularly with weights and take a milder Whey protien approach and keep the bench press "well used", I take (Propecia 1/2 mg daily) somehow the Proscar feminizing stories dont appeal to me and I am aiming to stay in manly shape "and" keep my hair. It is true what you said about Amino's, I found they do help you feel far more energetic. Keep the tips coming in, much appreciated !. NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 The stuff I've read on hgh, and believe me I want to look as pretty as the next guy, is that even REAL hgh is marginally useful if taken without insulin injections. Those taking only hgh may be getting the placebo effect. Real hgh costs as much as $7000 month to take so you know bodybuilders are gonna be damned certain this stuff works and they will take it only with insulin, which will really mess you up. Therefore, hgh enhancers may be even more worthless. We have to be careful when we post and give info here. You yourself are not sure if it was the sawpalmetto, the hgh enhancers, or whatever that caused your good results. I also peruse Life Extension but find they have gotten too commercial, compared to the way they were years ago. I have to consider my sources before I shove things down my throat and I'm not sure if I trust Life Extension anymore. To tell you the truth, sifting through these forums gives me a good feel for what works and what doesn't. Even well designed research studies may be funded by those having vested interests in the outcomes and therefore may skew the results. I don't mean to contradict you, because we're here to help each other, but personal results can be due to unknown or uncontrolled factors. Many of us who contribute are taking alot of shit (i.e. finasteride, minoxidil, azalaic acid, Toppik, Couvre, et al), so when we get hairgrowth or hair fallout it's easy to blame it on any one or all of that stuff. We all want to believe so much that we become easy prey for marketers. I'm not saying Gary Krull is a phony, but he is a marketer of the natural approach and he certainly isn't going to promote the benefits of finasteride or hgh with insulin, but he has to have some kind of alternative, so enhancers and sawpalmetto is hyped up. All I'm saying is, consider the source of your information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Big It Up Posted February 17, 2003 Regular Member Share Posted February 17, 2003 scarymemo I need some clarification here.. I have been weight training for just over two years and have gone from skinny 180 lbs. at 6.2 height to a nice 209 lbs. with 12% body fat. As you know it takes hard work to get these gains. I eat a lot of whey protein and eat as clean as possible and still stay sane!! I still enjoy my Bud lights several times a week as well. I supplement with glutomine and have cycled off creatine recently. I have just started taking propecia for a month now. I have not noticed any weight gain or water retention . I train with weights 5 days on and do some sort of cardio once or twice a week. My job keeps me walking a lot as well. I am 38 and have had 6 HT's. The most recent Jan 14. My question is, is the propecia gonna work against my training program? I certainly dont want to go backwords with my lean muscle gains. Do you have any advice, you seem to be ahead of curve here on this subject. thanks and aloha big it up Experience: 6 HT to date.......wish this forum was around in the 90's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 this may be a little off the general hair topic - but what, if any, supplements are the best when weightlifting. I mean those that give results, and at the same time won't negatively affect my hair (I'd rather be skinny with head full of hair, than the other way around). "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic''. Arthur C. Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Big It Up Posted February 17, 2003 Regular Member Share Posted February 17, 2003 microprose If you want to gain lean muscle mass you must eat at least 1 gram of protein for each pound you currently weigh. I am 209 so I eat at least 209 grams of protein everyday...You can do this easily via whey protein powder. I also take 5 to 10 grams of glutomine each day. This is a amino acid that aids in recovery. I was taking creatine 5 grams a day as well but had cycled off of it since I had a HT last month. I have not gone back on yet for no particle reason. Now I have done this for 2 years and 3 months and have had great results. I have not noticed any changes in my hair because of this regime. Now if you were to do steroids...that can change everything...personally I would not go there. Gain the muscle the natural way without all the negative. When training , nutrition is just as important as the weight lifting. good luck big it up Experience: 6 HT to date.......wish this forum was around in the 90's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member NW Posted February 17, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted February 17, 2003 Micro, I agree w/Big it up..Protien will be your best "safe" bet if you are concerned about Hairloss...hit the weights, protien shake in the AM, protien snacks through-out the day such as nuts, Lean pepperoni, Chicken pcs...you will notice nice results if you stick to it....dont O.D. on Carbs. Food in and of itself naturally has amino's. I go w 1/2 Propecia daily, for me it works as well as 1 mg daily...be extra careful with "any" suppliments, you may even ask your doc for guidelines. I am interested in others regimines too. Some guys get away with more than others with no hairloss. Be careful. NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Theoretically, anything you do to raise testosterone levels is going to put you at greater risk for hairloss because of the DHT conversion factor. That's why big hairy dudes are usually slick bald, but have great capacity as lifters. And that's why women are low risk for pattern baldness, but can't buff up. Basic information, I know. There are others out there that know more than me, so help me out if I'm misinformed. When you take finasteride or any oral DHT blocker ( topicals are a different story) you are in effect lowering your testerone levels and raising your amount of estrogen. In a sense, your feminizing yourself. So you get what women have: more hair, more fat, more tits, less muscle and you start acting like a bitch every 28 days (just kiddin'). Anabolic steroids (not cortical steroids) do the opposite, they raise t-levels so you start looking like those big dudes with all the bodyhair and muscles, but you also go bald because there's a whole lot of DHT (dihydrotestosterone). Some steroids are less androgenic than others and will not convert as readily to DHT (this is a major issue in bodybuilding because they want to sacrifice as little hair for muscle as possible). And FYI, bodybuilders were way ahead of doctors about about DHT and hairloss back in the early '80's. Genetics plays a big role here because if your not programmed for hairloss, you can pretty much take as much 'droids as you want. When you die from from all that juice at least you'll look great in that coffin. Just lifting weights alone will increase your testerone level, so theoretically the more resistance training you do, the balder you're going to get. Believe it or not, endurance trainers, such as long distance runners, will see a drop in testosterone, that's why they are in great cardio shape but look like they got AIDS (no muscle). But this stuff will drive you nuts because even beer drinking or marijuana will produce a substantial drop in t-levels. Does this mean if you want hair (on top of your head anyway)we should all go out everynight and jog 20 miles to your nearest dope dealer then go home and chase down your Propecia with a 12-pack? So, we dudes are really f**ked. We want to look buffed but we also want alot of hair in the right place. That's why many of us who are taking finasteride are also taking testoterone boosters and estrogen blockers. Kind of like trying to find a balance somewhere. This can get really complicated. As far as my own routine, I'm trying to keep it as simple as I can but it's not easy, the more you know the more stressful it becomes. The older you are the lower your testoterone, hence your hairloss begins to stabilize and that is why it isn't a good idea to get a HT too soon. I'm 52, post steroids and alot of other stuff. For now, I take full spectrum vitamins/minerals, tribulus terrestris (t-booster), an anti-estrogen from Biotest, and alot of other shit, and believe me this is keeping it simple! God, all I ask for is a little muscle and a little hair, but not necessarily in that order. I could go on and on but just talking about this stuff wears me out. Well let's see, I have to go now 'cause I still have to take my nightly Proscar, splash on minoxidil and azelaic acid, rub on the Couvre, sprinkle on the Toppik (so I look cute at the gym), go lift weights, take the t-booster and anti-estrogen...and decide if I'm going FU, FUE. See what I mean, it ain't easy being a stud. [This message was edited by scarymemo on February 17, 2003 at 08:23 PM.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member NW Posted February 18, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted February 18, 2003 Scarymemo, Excellent you said it all buddy !! "So please God just leave me thick hair and muscle"..."I promise I wont ask for anything else"...really. My nightly prayer. Cheers ! NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member theofani Posted February 18, 2003 Regular Member Share Posted February 18, 2003 More DHT in your system doesn't necessarily equal less hair. Some of our hair is genetically 'immune' to the DHT effect. Being bigger, stronger, hairier (body hair) may equate to more Testosterone in your system (and more DHT) but if your hair genes are programmed not to care, you're still going to have a full head of hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I did allude to that when I mentioned bodybuilders and steroid use but of course it does apply to everyone genetically speaking. DHT for the most part also doesn't affect hair on the sides and back of the head (the donor areas) even when they have been transplanted to where DHT affected hair was. That is why those relocated hairs are there for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member NW Posted February 18, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted February 18, 2003 If you have MPB, you do not like DHT. If you have never experienced hairloss or dont care, then dont worry about suppliments, testosterone levels, DHT etc..(of course why would you be here reading ?) Since I have had hairloss I scrutinize everything I put in my body, For weightlifting, I stay natural always have, always will. NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegel Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Griswald I agree to what you have said about HGH. I have been taking HGH releasers or better known as amino acid secretagogues for a little over a year now and I look and feel great. I have always taken saw palmetto seperatly along with my HGH releasers. I have found that there are so many products on the market today.How do I know which product will work? Three months ago my doctor introduced me to a HGH releaser that has real clinical studies to prove that the product raises IGF-1 Levels. I was also impressed that they added saw palmetto into there HGH formulation. I purchase this product from my dermatologist in New York. A friend of mine living in North Carolina buys this product off their Web site www.restoragemen.com The product is not available at retail that I know of. Griswald I like the fact that my dermatologist believes enough in this product called restorage men that he carries this in his practice...I hope this helps.......... Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member arfy Posted February 19, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted February 19, 2003 I have never seen any evidence (or claims for that matter) that HGH or HGH stimulation will have any effect on hair loss. Please correct me if I am wrong. As far as bodybuilding goes, HGH stimulation is considered to have low "bang for the buck" while real HGH supplementation is wildly expensive. The only people who really want or need that are professional level (not recreational level) bodybuilders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Griswald Posted February 21, 2003 Regular Member Share Posted February 21, 2003 I agree with what you said. I would like the name of the place you get your's from. I use 2 - different places now, but always looking for better delivery techniques and sources for the aminos. Thanks, Griswald... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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