Being "chained" to Propecia?

[Space Ace]

Hi everyone. This is my first post ever to a hair loss forum. I noticed my hair thinning about 5 or 6 years ago. I haven't ever done anything about it, but recently I've been considering taking "steps," as my hair has gotten kind of sad.

 

Taking pills always seemed like an easy thing to do, however something about Propecia has always terrified me.

 

I was always under the impression that if one starts taking Propecia, then you are basically "chained" to it for life. Like, let's say I took it for 5 years, and it helped me maintain my hair (and even maybe helped thicken some of the tiny/thinner/miniaturized hairs I currently have) during that time.

 

But then, let's say after several years I'm forced to stop taking the pills. Maybe because the side effects prove too great. Or maybe because something crazy happens and they pull the pills off the market. I don't know.

 

But anyway, am I correct in thinking that within months of stopping Propecia, that I'll lose tons of hair within a very brief time--basically all the hair that it had helped me maintain over the years? Am I correct in that, or am I misiniterpretting something?

 

The reason I ask is because I just read a post on this forum that negated this assumption of mine. It's in a thread called "After taking Finasteride does hair stop growing?" At the end of the thread, a poster named "calvinmd" wrote this:

 

Minoxidil is a VERY harsh drug to quit. That will cause all the benefits that it had ever provided to disappear within months. Not pretty. You'll be right back where nature had intended for your MPB to be. Minox stops the body from carrying out the DHT's orders to execute the hairs, but it doesn't stop DHT from continuing to bond to more hair follicles during the entire time you're using it.

 

 

Finasteride (Propecia) is a little easier on the hair to quit it. Your MPB still quickly resumes, but at least using Fin for 5 years will put your hair loss permanently 5 years behind where nature had intended. Fin stops the DHT damage in the first place.

 

 

Is this true? could someone elaborate on this? If this is true, then that makes the idea of trying/starting Propecia less terrifying.

 

Am I understanding what calvinmd wrote correctly? Right now, I'm 30. Let's say I start taking Propecia, and am on it for the next 6 years. Then, for whatever reason I have to stop.

 

At that point, I will NOT suddenly lose all the hair (in some horrifying months-long "shed") that the Propecia helped me maintain. But rather my hair loss would basically just pick up at the same leisurely pace that it was at when I started taking the pills?

 

To put it another way, let's say there are two version of me:

 

VERSION A: This version of me never tries Propecia pills, ever.

 

VERSION B: I start taking Propecia pills at my current age of 30, I'm on them for 6 years, then for whatever reason I stop taking them at age 36.

 

The Version "B" Me at Age 42, six years since stopping the Propecia: Should this person basically have the same hair density as the Version "A" version would've had at age 36?

 

I hope I've made sense. Thanks for any responses.

[Space Ace]

Hi everyone. This is my first post ever to a hair loss forum. I noticed my hair thinning about 5 or 6 years ago. I haven't ever done anything about it, but recently I've been considering taking "steps," as my hair has gotten kind of sad.

 

Taking pills always seemed like an easy thing to do, however something about Propecia has always terrified me.

 

I was always under the impression that if one starts taking Propecia, then you are basically "chained" to it for life. Like, let's say I took it for 5 years, and it helped me maintain my hair (and even maybe helped thicken some of the tiny/thinner/miniaturized hairs I currently have) during that time.

 

But then, let's say after several years I'm forced to stop taking the pills. Maybe because the side effects prove too great. Or maybe because something crazy happens and they pull the pills off the market. I don't know.

 

But anyway, am I correct in thinking that within months of stopping Propecia, that I'll lose tons of hair within a very brief time--basically all the hair that it had helped me maintain over the years? Am I correct in that, or am I misiniterpretting something?

 

The reason I ask is because I just read a post on this forum that negated this assumption of mine. It's in a thread called "After taking Finasteride does hair stop growing?" At the end of the thread, a poster named "calvinmd" wrote this:

 

Minoxidil is a VERY harsh drug to quit. That will cause all the benefits that it had ever provided to disappear within months. Not pretty. You'll be right back where nature had intended for your MPB to be. Minox stops the body from carrying out the DHT's orders to execute the hairs, but it doesn't stop DHT from continuing to bond to more hair follicles during the entire time you're using it.

 

 

Finasteride (Propecia) is a little easier on the hair to quit it. Your MPB still quickly resumes, but at least using Fin for 5 years will put your hair loss permanently 5 years behind where nature had intended. Fin stops the DHT damage in the first place.

 

 

Is this true? could someone elaborate on this? If this is true, then that makes the idea of trying/starting Propecia less terrifying.

 

Am I understanding what calvinmd wrote correctly? Right now, I'm 30. Let's say I start taking Propecia, and am on it for the next 6 years. Then, for whatever reason I have to stop.

 

At that point, I will NOT suddenly lose all the hair (in some horrifying months-long "shed") that the Propecia helped me maintain. But rather my hair loss would basically just pick up at the same leisurely pace that it was at when I started taking the pills?

 

To put it another way, let's say there are two version of me:

 

VERSION A: This version of me never tries Propecia pills, ever.

 

VERSION B: I start taking Propecia pills at my current age of 30, I'm on them for 6 years, then for whatever reason I stop taking them at age 36.

 

The Version "B" Me at Age 42, six years since stopping the Propecia: Should this person basically have the same hair density as the Version "A" version would've had at age 36?

 

I hope I've made sense. Thanks for any responses.

[finnari]

I dont think your hair "catches up" to the point it should be as if you didnt take propecia when you stop. You just stop receiving the benefits of the drug. In your example you would have five years of help from the drug.

 

I had a lot of concerns with Propecia. I wish I would have started it 10 years ago. In fact I did but I stopped taking it because of paranoia.

 

HT and propecia go hand and hand at least that's what I am prescribing to right now.

[Bill - Seemiller]

HT and propecia go hand and hand at least that's what I am prescribing to right now.

 

Finnari is correct...

 

But this doesn't mean Propecia is required for transplanted hairs to grow. It only may help keep existing or help strengthen your native hair.

 

But yes...CalvinMD is correct...assuming Propecia works for you, male pattern baldness can rapidly resume upon stopping Propecia.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[calvinmd]

Hey guys.

 

 

Space Ace,

If you aren't 100% familiar with the MPB workings, here's the short gist of things as best I understand them:

 

1. First DHT#2 bonds to your hair follicles in areas that are genetically-susceptible to it. This is a slow ongoing process that goes on throughout your life. Some of the DHT is being produced "locally" in your scalp skin, and some of it is just circulating in the bloodstream all the time.

 

2. As the DHT bonds to the hair follicles, your body seems to mistake the follicles for foreign invaders rather than a part of the body. So your immune system begins attacking the follicles, which gradually shrinks the hair shafts until the follicle eventually shuts down entirely after several years of this process.

 

 

 

The anti-inflammation drugs (like Minoxidil) work by basically reducing the immune-system damage part of the equation. It basically helps the follicles grow through it.

 

But the DHT itself is continuing to bind to the follicles the whole time, so as soon as you quit the Minoxidil the hair loss is back with a vengeance. You're not only getting the original loss resuming, but there's additional loss from all the additional DHT that continued to bind to the follicles the whole time. The Minoxidil had been shielding the follicles from the immune-response effects of it. No real long-term gains.

 

 

The anti-DHT drugs (like Propecia) are reducing the amount of DHT#2 throughout your body's bloodstream. So there's actually less DHT damage being inflicted to the follicles while you're on it. And since the total lifetime amount of DHT damage to each follicle is what ultimately governs the immune response that attacks these follicles, it's a long-term gain.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------

[MrJobi]

Good thread

 

Well, I think the word "for life" is a bit exaggerated. Let's be honest as I am assuming within the next 10 years something else will come around and be the next "CURE".

 

But, of course YES. You have to stay on it as long as you want the benefit as you have to with any drug of treatment ( anti depressant, high blood pressure, etc.)

 

Yes, hairloss does create some challenges for you

[calvinmd]

Agreed.

 

I'm not betting on hair cloning/multiplication happening right around the corner yet. But it seems very possible that we'll see one or more new MPB prevention drugs hit the market within a decade.

 

 

In another 10-20 years, taking systemic Finasteride will probably seem like a fairly primitive/clumsy way for us to have been fighting MPB.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------

[Space Ace]

Thanks for the responses guys. Sorry I haven't checked back in a while.

 

I am aware that mpb will resume if one stops taking Propecia (assuming you were on the pills for a while). I guess I just wanted to confirm that it wouldn't be as horrible as I'd feared. For example, calvinmd wrote above in regards to quitting Minoxidil...

 

But the DHT itself is continuing to bind to the follicles the whole time, so as soon as you quit the Minoxidil the hair loss is back with a vengeance. You're not only getting the original loss resuming, but there's additional loss from all the additional DHT that continued to bind to the follicles the whole time.

 

So basically, stopping Propecia is less devestating to one's hair than stopping Moinoxidil? In the above quote, you list two ways that your hair goes to hell upon stopping Minoxidil: 1) The "original loss resuming"

 

And 2): Additionally losing all the hairs that only stayed on your head during the years you were on Minoxidil because the Minox blocked the dht's effects on those hairs. Except now that the Minox is gone, the dht is free to "kill" those hairs.

 

But if one were to go on just Propecia for 5 years, and then for whatever reason, had to come off of it. Even after coming off of it--while your hairloss resumes at its original rate (the rate you were losing before starting Propecia) you will never have that freakish fallout that occurs if one were stopping Minoxidil. Right?

 

I mean, if someone were to take Propecia for 5 years, get the benefits of that, and then stop... even though the hairloss will resume, they still will have permanently set back the progress of where their hair loss naturally would've been (had they decided to never take drugs) by about 5-years. Is that correct?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Space Ace,

 

Personally I feel that if you were only to take one of the medications (Propecia or Rogaine) that Propecia is the better choice since it helps block DHT which is what is responsible for kiling genetically predisposed hairs to DHT. Rogaine acts as a stimulant that may cause it to grow regardless of DHT but does nothing for the DHT itself.

 

Using a combination of the two is the most powerful formula available for potentially combatting future hair loss and regrowth of miniaturized hairs.

 

However there is not a guarantee and this doesn't work for everyone.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Space Ace]

I'm bumping my own thread here to pose another Propecia question.

 

First of all, before I get into anything, I just have to applaud Bill for being so awesome. I can't imagine the amount of time he spends responding to all the people that he does. Also his helpful positive attitude is a breath of fresh air. I say this in comparison with other hair loss forums that have a vaguely negative vibe to them.

 

Anyway, my question has to do with a thread I just read at the hairlosstalk site.

 

2 months, still losing hair

 

The original poster asks a very specific question toward the end that no one really addresses.

 

It's in the next to the last post of the thread.

 

You know the Propecia claim that it helps you maintain the hair that you have? Well, does that take into account the crazy amounts of hair that is sometimes shed when one first starts Propecia?

 

For example, lets say you have x amount of hair when you start the drug. Am I correct in thinking that Propecia (if it's working properly) is supposed to help maintain that same x-amount over the years? (And maybe even add a little to that amount?)

 

But this guy asks about the amount/density *after* the dreaded Propecia shed. Let's say the Propecia triggers a disturbing shedding period in someone. (Which I guess is fairly common, from what I've read.) And then, after 6 months the shedding stops.

 

So, what hair-amount is the Propecia maintaining? The x-amount the guy had before the shed, or the amount after the shed? Is your hair now doomed to be "maintained" at the sad post-shed amount?

 

I would hope that once the Propecia kicks in, all those Propecia-induced shed hairs come back, but I'm not so sure.

 

P.S. I realize my questions are probably unnecessarily wordy. Sorry about that; it's just my style. I hope they at least make sense.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Space Ace,

 

I am glad to hear that you are finding this forum helpful to you and that I've been a contributing factor to that . I appreciate the personal encouragement as well.

 

I will try to tackle this question though there is no "exact" answer because there is no guarantee to Propecia (unfortunately).

 

The hairs that MAY shed in the first few months using Propecia (keep in mind that not everyone experiences this shed) are simply making way for thicker hair to return. In other words, these hairs will grow back thicker. The shed can therefore be seen as a good thing. Learn more about the normal hair growth cycle.

 

It is impossible to say whether or not Propecia will maintain all your hair. I would say there is a better chance that hair loss will be minimized than stopped completely.

 

Also keep in mind that Propecia will only "regrow" hair that has already existed. In other words, no new follicles will form however, some hairs that have been miniaturized may "regrow" thicker and stronger. Hairs further in the miniaturization process have a less likely chance of regrowing.

 

Does this answer your question?

 

Bill

[Space Ace]

I believe that does address my question, Bill. Thanks again.

 

I guess I'll probably start on Propecia soon enough one of these days. (Have to work up the courage first, I guess.) Here's to hoping that it has a positive effect for me.

[MrJobi]

Hi Space

 

For the record, I have been on Propecia since it came out about 8 years ago or so.. It haulted my hairloss and regrew some as well. I have not experienced any side effects and I am very happy..

 

It is a key part of my hairloss treatment

[Space Ace]

Thank you, mrjb. I've really been fretting over my hair lately, but reading "success posts" like yours genuinely gives me hope, takes some of the weight off my back.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Space Ace,

 

I'm glad we could be of help.

 

I've been using Propecia for 3 years now. It's difficult for me to know whether or not there has been any success or not. My honest evaluation personally for me is that I believe it's helping me maintain the hair below my crown - but I all the hair on top of my head at this point is transplanted hair. The good news is, I have not experienced any side effects.

 

Bill

[MrJobi]

Cheers SA

 

I know we hear a lot of negative stories about Propecia, HT's , etc etc.

 

With tht being said, I also see many happy stories such as myself , Jotronic, and Bill.

I for one am EXTREMELY happy and satisfied but I also think it is a result of the following items

 

Research - What works? Which docs? What surgery?

Consistency - I've stuck to my program

PATIENCE - A BIG ONE - it is a long term plan

A good doc - Makes all the difference

Realistic expectation - don't expect miracles

 

If you follow this, you will get the result you are looking for

[Andrew's Hair]

New user bumping this thread. Love the site.

 

I was always under the impression that if you took propecia for say 5 years and stopped, then your hair would quickly (6mos to a year) catch up to the state it would have been had you never taken propecia in the first place. Is this true or does your hair just start to fall out again at the normal rate it fell out before you took propecia? Thanks.

[HoldingOn]

It is my understanding that within a year of stopping your hair will revert back to where it WOULD HAVE BEEN if you had not started the medication.

 

A few years ago I got lazy and didn't fill my prescription right away...I think I let it go about a month.

After about 3 weeks of going off I started to lose hair...lots of hair!

I have no doubt that my hair was going to revert back to where I would have been...the loss was rapid and noticable.

I went back on Propecia after the month of laziness...and within about 3 months I started to notice short hairs growing back in.

I prompty got a really short hair cut and let all my hair grow in together.

 

I learned my lesson and have never been late filling my script again.

I don't view this aspect of Propecia as a negative thing.

If it's working w/o any side effects...then why would you want to go off it suddenly?

Besides, cloning will hopefully be available in the next 10-15 years and we won't have to worry about meds for hair!

[Andrew's Hair]

Thanks, Holding On. Anyone else agree or disagree?