Seeking Feedback re Dr. Eric Carlson in Phila. (Bosley)

[Matt-san]

OK, folks, I have searched on "Bosley" and found plenty of Bosley-bashing, including links to the lawsuits site, etc. I am not going to comment one way or another on the lawsuits issue because while if the allegations vs. Bosley are true, they are still largely not substantive to the matter of the *results* that a person gets from a particular doctor and whether or not he or she is happy with those results.

 

I did some research on Dr. Eric Carlson in Philly, a Bosley-trained doctor and board-certified head and neck surgery specialist, with a list of states he is certified to practice in (his web site is: http://www.bosleymedicalphiladelphia.com/ ). I checked at each state's accrediting board web site to see if he was indeed registered in that state to practice medicine and whether he had any complaints or reprimands against him from the state board. It checked out that he is licensed in the states in question and had no complaints or reprimands listed anywhere. The state of Pennsylvania also accomodatingly allows people to search their civil lawsuit records on-line and I found no lawsuits against Dr. Carlson being on record as having even been filed (they show all filed lawssuits and their disposition, including if they were settled out of court).

 

Some of the complaints about Bosley-trained drs. that I have found here on this site are from procedures done a long time ago. I imagine liposuction, breast augmentation, and other kinds of cosmetic surgeries have also come a long way since then, too. I am sorry for anyone who went to see a dr. for any reason and was not happy with the results. You do have my sympathies.

 

But I do not want to discard the opportunity to see a good doctor because a few people are unhappy with their results; this guy has been practicing medicine since 1975 and has not had a single medical board action taken against him. I also want to ask why it seems the Bosley-trained doctors' practices are singled out for criticism when it is just as possible for someone to be unhappy with other solo or group practices' results as otherwise.

 

So please, folks, being that I am at an important decision point re this procedure, please will people who have seen *Dr. Carlson in Philly* post or send me an e-mail re their experience with him and how you feel re the result. Please refrain from generalized Bosley-bashing and talking about what someone else did to you or failed to do for you years ago, etc. I would just like to have feedback re this one doctor and whether or not you had good results and why you think they were good or bad. I would appreciate before and after pics or links thereto, too.

 

Also please, all you kind folks out there, accept my apologies if anything I have typed seems hostile or whatever. It is just that what I really need is specific information about a specific doctor and why you feel he did or did not do a good job.

 

Thank you. My e-mail address if you want to back-channel your reply to me is mcc99@hotmail.com (mcc99 @ hotmail.com, no spaces)

 

Matt in Alexandria, VA

[Matt-san]

OK, folks, I have searched on "Bosley" and found plenty of Bosley-bashing, including links to the lawsuits site, etc. I am not going to comment one way or another on the lawsuits issue because while if the allegations vs. Bosley are true, they are still largely not substantive to the matter of the *results* that a person gets from a particular doctor and whether or not he or she is happy with those results.

 

I did some research on Dr. Eric Carlson in Philly, a Bosley-trained doctor and board-certified head and neck surgery specialist, with a list of states he is certified to practice in (his web site is: http://www.bosleymedicalphiladelphia.com/ ). I checked at each state's accrediting board web site to see if he was indeed registered in that state to practice medicine and whether he had any complaints or reprimands against him from the state board. It checked out that he is licensed in the states in question and had no complaints or reprimands listed anywhere. The state of Pennsylvania also accomodatingly allows people to search their civil lawsuit records on-line and I found no lawsuits against Dr. Carlson being on record as having even been filed (they show all filed lawssuits and their disposition, including if they were settled out of court).

 

Some of the complaints about Bosley-trained drs. that I have found here on this site are from procedures done a long time ago. I imagine liposuction, breast augmentation, and other kinds of cosmetic surgeries have also come a long way since then, too. I am sorry for anyone who went to see a dr. for any reason and was not happy with the results. You do have my sympathies.

 

But I do not want to discard the opportunity to see a good doctor because a few people are unhappy with their results; this guy has been practicing medicine since 1975 and has not had a single medical board action taken against him. I also want to ask why it seems the Bosley-trained doctors' practices are singled out for criticism when it is just as possible for someone to be unhappy with other solo or group practices' results as otherwise.

 

So please, folks, being that I am at an important decision point re this procedure, please will people who have seen *Dr. Carlson in Philly* post or send me an e-mail re their experience with him and how you feel re the result. Please refrain from generalized Bosley-bashing and talking about what someone else did to you or failed to do for you years ago, etc. I would just like to have feedback re this one doctor and whether or not you had good results and why you think they were good or bad. I would appreciate before and after pics or links thereto, too.

 

Also please, all you kind folks out there, accept my apologies if anything I have typed seems hostile or whatever. It is just that what I really need is specific information about a specific doctor and why you feel he did or did not do a good job.

 

Thank you. My e-mail address if you want to back-channel your reply to me is mcc99@hotmail.com (mcc99 @ hotmail.com, no spaces)

 

Matt in Alexandria, VA

[arfy]

Hi Matt

I appreciate that you want to have a sense of fairness, when considering a doctor. But your post makes some basic errors that I wanted to point out.

 

First, a certain doctor not having any medical board complaints is not a measure of anything. The state medical boards are staffed by other doctors. Doctors are not in the business of busting each other's chops. It is VERY difficult to have a state medical board NOT dismiss a complaint against a doctor, unless the doctor

-killed someone during an operation, due to negligence

-molested a patient

-showed up drunk, not just once but repeatedly

 

Those are the types of offenses that will typically get you in trouble with the state medical boards. I don't know how exactly Bosley has managed to get themselves in trouble with so many states... I assume it has to do with the sheer volume of the complaints, that eventually it was decide that action was mandated. Because it is very very hard to get in trouble with the state medical board. This is not a problem specific to hair transplants, it is true for ALL doctors. The state medical boards are mostly a joke. They don't do jack sh*t.

 

Second, you say that all of the complaints against Bosley are in the past. I'm sorry to tell you that this is not true. Bosley actually has managed to get in trouble with state medical boards, and the most recent legal actions against them were in July 2002. Bosley is a long-time repeat offender. Maybe that is not what you want to hear, but these are the facts. I assume you have looked at the website www.BosleyMedicalViolations.com ?

 

I don't know about Dr. Carlson but the big franchise clinics generally do not use the cutting-edge techniques. They don't use microscopes to dissect the grafts. They use Minigrafts, which can look pluggy. They pass the high costs of advertising on to you. They have sales quotas that they need to reach, in order to get bonuses (or keep their jobs). They run their surgical centers like a factory, trying to get as much turnover as possible, for maximum profits. I recommend that you look for a clinic where you will be the only patient that your doctor operates on that day, or maybe you and one other guy.

 

Maybe you will be happy with your Bosley transplant. Some guys are happy with Bosley. But everyone has different tastes and different measures of success. What looks good to you, may not look good to me, and vice-versa. I recommend that you see Dr. Carlson's patients in person, as many as possible. And not just the guys who work in his office.

 

My opinion is that you should try to choose a doctor who seems like the best. An average doctor will give you an average hair transplant. The average hair transplant looks like an obvious hair transplant... what good is that?

 

If you insist on using Dr. Carlson, please be sure to come back in a year with some sharp before and after pictures.

 

Oh yeah, I didn't understand your logic here:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"I am not going to comment one way or another on the lawsuits issue because while if the allegations vs. Bosley are true, they are still largely not substantive to the matter of the *results* that a person gets from a particular doctor and whether or not he or she is happy with those results."

Do you think Bosley is getting sued because they are getting great results and have happy patients????????????????

 

What do you think those lawsuits are about?

 

Do you think any of those lawsuits would be filed against Bosley, if their patients were satisfied in the first place?

 

I really don't understand your logic...

 

[This message was edited by arfy on November 30, 2003 at 10:17 PM.]

[drandres]

Just an aside -- I am a doctor (NOT in the HT business!) and what Arfy says about State Medical Boards is totally true. While a doctor who WASN'T certified would be worth looking into, having a state license basically just means they were willing to pony up the dough.

[Kez]

As a newbie, looking for HT, I naturally checked out Bosley's site, and on their "Expert Opinions" page they quote a glowing testimonial from "Biograft Hair Transplant Centers, of England". As I live in England, I'm curious to check these guys out. Couldn't locate them via Google, so I emailed Bosley with my problem, and could they let me have Biograft's address. A week later I got a lovely glossy Bosley brochure, plus a standard email reply, but nothing about "Biograft". Not encouraging.

[Matt-san]

... as requested. Please see:

 

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=5696015661&f=2566060861&m=9746065815&r=3356065815

 

for piccies of my lovely head.

[MeHairBeGrowin]

You can't be serious? Bosley false advertising, making up phony references? Lying to patients faces?

 

Never! You should be shot for even thinking such negative thoughts about the "Biggest Bald Butcher" in the world.

 

Bosley's has and continues to be convicted in several states for false advertising. Including using employee's pictures as hair transplant patiences who never had hair tranplants. This is documented by the California DA's office, not the rantings of the a mad man. Well maybe both.

 

Bosley should be in jail. I am truly surprised that one of his patients has not taken him out. I would if I could get away with it. I have no shortage of Bosley fan e-mail, of people who feel the same way.

 

I believe the states need to get together like they did against Microsoft, to get that Butcher and his henchmen closed down.

 

I have never ever met a Bosley's patient 1 year or more down the road who did not regret dealing with him or his henchman. My bet is that, 1 year from now I still haven't.

 

i.e. It turns out that several of the guys he used for his ads who really had HT work from him sued him, for false representation, etc. They doctored up the photos in photoshop.

 

The patience were pissed because Bosley's work sucked and he used their pictures, touched up, to lure in other un-suspecting customers.

 

[This message was edited by MeHairBeGrowin on December 14, 2003 at 03:28 PM.]

[Kez]

OK. Bosley is crap. But WHY ?

 

With their resources, why would they do crap work, when others state that the FU process is simple & straightforward - you just cut out from the donor area, slice under the microscope into individual FU's and transpant.

 

If Bosley don't actually do this ( ie what they promise in their materials ) it suggests that the technique is way above them, and not foolproof at all. Otherwise they'd use it, and avoid all the shit feedback.

 

What I'm asking is "does the FU transplant technique have such a low probability of success that Bosley avoids it" ? If so, why, and how can other guys succeed where Bosley doesn't.

 

By the way, I'd appreciate a synopsis of your HT history. Seems you had Bosley, but now your hair be growin. So who grow'd it then ?

[MeHairBeGrowin]

Bosely has several problems.

 

First they will do HT work on anyone. They brag about doing work on 18 year olds. They are profit driven not customer need driven. They will give an HT to anyone their sales people can talk into it.

 

Another problem is that they hire sales people to sell their HT work, who's goal is to get you in the chair; that is the only way they get paid. Their sales people only tell you about the good things and avoid negative and realistic expectation talks until after they have started drilling on your head (once started they got you).

 

Good doctors will not work for Bosley. Bosley doctors tend to be guys ending their medical career looking to help build retirement cash. They are paid by the procedure, to make good money they need to do as many procedures as possible a day. The doctors are also pressured to do as many procedures a day as possible.

 

Bosley also pays their nursing help the minimum, poorly trains them, and works them hard. As a result they have a high turn over of the people who actually do the majority of the work.

 

In the end, people end up in the chair with unrealistic expectations. The doctors who do the work are medicore at best, and have been trained to and are interested in squeezing your wallet. The nurses are poorly trained.

 

By the time you sit in their chair, everybody is in a hurry to get your procedure started and done, so you can't turn back and the chair is freed up for their next victim.

 

The future drug forum will explain how I am growing hair.

 

Ken

 

[This message was edited by MeHairBeGrowin on December 18, 2003 at 06:47 AM.]

 

[This message was edited by MeHairBeGrowin on December 18, 2003 at 06:53 AM.]

[Matt-san]

Bosely has several problems.

 

First they will do HT work on anyone. They brag about doing work on 18 year olds. They are profit driven not customer need driven. They will give an HT to anyone their sales people can talk into it.

.

.

 

Respecting your right to your opinions, I simply do not think the dr. I went to see (Carlson) could be characterized as mediocre or his staff as poorly-trained, or the process as having been hurried. That is not the impresison at all I got and I do not think I am a casual or uninformed observer. Everyone at that office struck me as professional and well-trained. And I want to reiterate that I had ample opportunity to ask questions about expected results, etc., which I did, and got straight answers from both the dr. and the counsellor I spoke to.

[MeHairBeGrowin]

Good luck. You might be one of the lucky ones.

 

Let me know next year.

 

Ken

 

P.S. You'll be the first Happy Bosley customer I have ever met.

 

P.S.S. next time you see the "counsellor" ask him if he is paid on commission, bonus, etc.. And, ask him about "First Starts" (getting a guy started in the chair). I think you'll find his answer to both questions enlightening.

 

P.S.S.S. What percentage of Bosley doctors have been with him for more then 5 years? I think it's zero or close to it. H'mm I wonder why? He's been around for over 30 years. Check his web page. It will tell you. If I remember correctly most have been there less then 3 years.

 

Do you think they leave because:

 

a. The made enough money to retire.

 

b. That after a year or two they start to see the results of their work and realize what they have done to so many unsuspecting and trusting people, how many lives they have destroyed for a few bucks. They start to feel guilty and soon can't take it anymore and quit.

 

c. Bosely fires them all after 3 years because he only hires incompetent and washed up doctors.

 

d. All of the above.

 

[This message was edited by MeHairBeGrowin on December 18, 2003 at 05:51 PM.]

[arfy]

To Kez

Bosley and other big franchises do not use microscopes to dissect the donor strip (hopefully this will change). It costs money to invest in the equipment and to train the staff, who have usually been doing their work without microscopes and don't want to change if they don't have to.

 

Microscopes are more precise and so they are more time consuming. Time consuming = less patients and less profits.

 

The all FU procedure IS more difficult and more time consuming than a mixed graft procedure that franchise clinics do. Inexperienced clinics can get poor results with an all-FU procedure if they don't know exactly what they are doing, or haven't gotten the knack. FU grafts are more fragile and are easily damaged, dry out faster, etc. So the clinics who want to switch to an all-FU procedure have to spend money on equipment and training, they lose money by slowing down the process, and there is a chance they will get poor yields until they build up more experience. There is a learning curve to the all-FU transplant, it is harder to do than using larger grafts. These are some of the reasons big franchises do not update their procedure to an all-FU approach.

 

The patient may not realize that he has gotten an average looking transplant. Microscopes can allegedly increase graft yields by a reported 20 to 30 percent. There is no way that a patient can know that some of his grafts were wasted unnecessarily. Lets say a patient goes to a franchise and maxes out his donor area with a total of 6000 grafts, over a couple of surgeries. How is the patient to know that he actually had enough donor hair for 7000 grafts, but his clinic wasted some of his hair? It's impossible for the patient to know... only the techs might know the truth about that... maybe.

 

Also, the franchises like Bosley put Micrografts in the hairline (similar to FUs) but put larger grafts behind that. The patient can ususally only get the clearest possible view of his own hairline, we don't have eyes in the backs of our heads. The Bosley (and other big franchises) philosophy is that only the hairline needs to look completely natural. In my opinion the WHOLE HEAD needs to look natural. Larger grafts do not look natural, but the idea behind mixed grafts is that most people will not notice... unless it is windy, rainy, someone is examining your hair etc.

 

I think some Bosley patients are probably well-enough satisfied with their transplants, but these patients would be surprised to learn that they could have gotten a better hair transplant that would still look good in the rain, in the wind, when being combed through by a barber etc.. the all-FU transplant.

 

Unfortunately the big clinics like Bosley and MHR have not kept up with the times.

 

[This message was edited by arfy on December 18, 2003 at 06:36 PM.]

[dodgedabullet]

Do a google search to find the California State Medical Board. Look up Larry Bosley, and you'll find his license is suspended in 12 states. That should tell you something about the quality of that group.

[Kez]

Thanks for all the responses folks, especially the info from arfy - I really wanted technical information rather than just angry put downs of a scam, scam though it may be. Now I know my way around a bit. Didn't realise that there are other "hair mills" besides Bosley. Can anyone provide a list ?

[Guest]

where do you get your info? I specifically asked my doc at Bosley about FU vs. minigrafts. He said that he only implants 1-4 hair FUs.....no minigrafts. Now, I didn't watch his staff dissect my entire strip, but I'm sure neither has any patient of any doctor. We must take the doctor's answers to our questions as truth. So, your doc could be lying about the procedure as much as anyone.

 

My point is this: I had the procedure at the Atlanta Bosley and I was satisfied with every aspect of the surgery. I was treated well, my questions were answered, I got to see and talk to other patients of this doctor. Had I found this site prior to scheduling, I would have probably been swayed away from Bosley. But, as of right now, I am happy. My hairs are coming in, my scar is fading and the bill is paid in full. The real test will be in another 6 months of course. Until then I will remain optimistic.

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/jcwhair/

 

JCW

[MeHairBeGrowin]

I noticed in another post your were talking about going some where else for more work.

 

If you are happy with Bosley, why go elsewhere?

 

I am not trying to give you a hard time. I really would like to know.

[Guest]

I am not necessarily "Pro-Bosley" but merely discussing my experience there. There were a few things I would rather have for my next one:

 

1. more grafts - Bosley's max (at least at this office) is 2000. I want more if I can get them.

 

2. better scar - I think my scar is larger than it could be and I have heard other docs do good scars.

 

3. better price - after reading these forums I have found that most other offices offer strip at a (significantly) lower price.

 

Like I said, so far I have nothing negative to post about my experience at Bosley. The scar is acceptable. The fee was do-able.

 

Sometimes I get the impression that a few folks on here can't wait to pull an "I told you so" on Bosley patients. If every single bosley doc did a horrible job on every single patient, how on earth would they still be here?

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/jcwhair/

 

JCW

[baldbozo]

Here is some great work by Lee Bosley himself:

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/attachments/scarcity%2Ejpg

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=25188&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

 

 

As far as im concerned when so called bosley doctors screw up a guys head like that and destroy probably thousands of lives, and make millions of dollars in the process, they are criminals.

 

The doctors should be put on trial for Crimes against Humanity and either put in jail for life or executed.

 

There is no excuse for the countless lives Bosley & the gang have destroyed out there.

[MeHairBeGrowin]

First it takes about a year for people to realize they have been ripped off. They spend many months wanting to believe, waiting for the supposed results. Then they go into denial.

 

Finally they contact Bosley who tell's them that they can fix the problem with more work. This is Bosley's goal with "first starts"--suggest enough work to get them started and that is affordable, knowing it will be unacceptable once it grows in so the patient is forced to come back for more work to supposedly "fix the bad results." Their goal is to set you up to have your wallet milked for the next couple years. This is how they have operated for decades and still do now.

 

Some stay in denial. Others try to sue, but it's usually to late. Some get used to the work and come to accept it. Most end up going back to Bosley to get more work done (Bosley's Goal with first starts), and begin the process all over until Bosley can't get anything more out of them.

 

By the time most people realize what they let Bosely do, they are so ashamed of what they let them do to them, that they hide in their homes or under a hat in shame and silence, like I did for many years, and a lot of the people who e-mail me.

 

Many eventually find the strength to take action. Why do you think so many states has revoked his license to do business?

 

From DateLine The TV Show

The television show Dateline NBC aired a program titled: Splitting Hairs; undercover investigation of Bosley Medical Clinics. The report, which included interviews with former employees and patients, told about botched surgeries and broken promises. The lead reporter, Chris Hansen, said they were surprised at how many men felt ripped off and disfigured. An interview with former Bosley employee Joe Cox revealed that there was a big gap between what Bosley Medical sold and what it delivered:

HANSEN: Did you ever see any patient come into Bosley and walk out looking like the brochure, like the advertisements we've seen?

Mr. Cox: No.

HANSEN: Never?

Mr. Cox: Never.

HANSEN: What does that tell you about the kind of work Bosley Medical does?

Mr. Cox: It tells me that it's not a medical group, it's a sales group.

 

[This message was edited by MeHairBeGrowin on December 20, 2003 at 07:21 AM.]

[Guest]

I admit I was taken in by Bosley's slick adverts and website. I had not researched the HT as much as many of you; I only happened across these forums after I had scheduled my appt. I got nervous from everything I was reading, but I got to talk to and meet a few patients of this Dr. and my mind was set at ease. I went to the pre-op appointment half expecting to cancel, but I was impressed with the Dr's professional and frank attitiude. I have no regrets at this point

[MeHairBeGrowin]

That's how I felt after my first surgery. The second surgery is when they start their games. The first is just to get a hook in you.

 

On my second visit they started the "Oh My's". That's when Dr. Paul Staub, the unethical scum bag referred by this website for HT work, started pressuring me to get MPRs and more plugs, else I was doomed. All of sudden their was apparently a need for me to have 4 times as much work.

 

It took me a year to realize I was f?cked in the ass and didn't know it.

 

I hope it's different for you I do. So I wish you luck. But then again I don't.

 

To be honest, if it does work for you I hope you deny it. You'll be an exception. If anyone reads your post, they may actually consider going to Bosley.

 

In essense your success could be responsible for more people being taken in and butchered by Bosley.

 

So personlly I hope it works for you, but generally I hope it fails and you tell everyone you know.

 

Ideally I wish you never went there.

 

P.S. Are you sure the patients you met really had surgery? And if so with Bosley?

 

I believe it was last year or early this year, that a Bosley Consultant (Salesman) was caught showing a potential patient another guy who never had work done and worked as a salesman (Consultant) for another office. The story is on one of the "Close down Bosley websites"

 

The guy never had any HT work done, they lied and said he did and used him as an example of their work. I believe this claim is from last year or early this year and the DA is still investigating it.

 

Apparently the one sales guy was fired for not making quota, so he decided to rat them out.

 

They forgot to mention it in the Bosley infomercial you saw.

 

[This message was edited by MeHairBeGrowin on December 21, 2003 at 05:40 PM.]