Jotronic

Dr. Feller,

This is a really good result. Congrats to you and your patient.

If you're going to consider FUE, I'd say to give Dr. Feller a ring. He'll give it to you straight regarding FUE and it's merits.

Specs,

Thanks for posting Dr. H's info regarding hair shaving.

Pellis,

You need to not shave your head before you arrive for surgery. You need to let the doc do this as he will only shave the areas that the grafts are going into. The back and sides needs to be long enough to hide the staples during your initial post-op healing period. Once the staples come out, you can shave the back and sides of your scalp to match or blend in with the top.

Bob,

Sorry, I've been predisposed but I wanted to chime in. I was shocked to see your "Flounder" pic. I never knew! Futzyhead? Who's that? Congrats, bro.

Yeti,

You know, you're asking some really common sense answers that unfortunately do not have easy answers.

You've taken the first steps to finding your path with online research. This is a good thing. Your second step is realizing, like you must have already, that travel is usually necessary to find the right doc for this type of procedure due to the low number of overall qualified surgeons that are consistent with their results.

To answer your questions I can only say that you need to continue with your research as you will get varied opinions from each forum member. For instance, to answer question # 1, I would say Hasson & Wong are the best but not because I work for them. I was a patient way before I decided to make this a full time endeavor. Do a search on my username for my history or do a Google search for my username to find my website. The biggest sessions, most dense packing, most coverage, best hairlines, best temple points, best crown whorls; Dr. Hasson and Dr. Wong deliver consistently and you will be hard pressed to find anyone that says otherwise. Others will undoubtedly have their favorite for whatever reason but you will always find H&W on any educated consumer's list of who to at least consider as being tops.

Realistic average scarring? With a top clinic, anywhere from 1mm to 3mm, depending on your physiology and how you heal. With trichophytic closure of the donor area you may receive a scar with less width than non-tricho but not by much. It does tend to help in limiting the width of scars vs. non-tricho methods but the real beauty of tricho is that you will have native donor hair growing through the scar making it extremely hard to detect. It's a great development that is a true step forward for the industry.

What results can you realistically expect? That's a shot in the dark as I don't know, visually, what your hairloss is like. In general you should expect a wide variety of results from the number of docs performing HT's. The results can resemble a circus act or a Rembrandt to be completely honest. Find a doc that is CONSISTENT with his results, not just by his own presentation, but by patients sharing their stories and results. You can't ask for better info than from the patients themselves.

Research, research, research. The internet is your friend if you know what to look out for. Good luck and keep us posted of your thoughts and ideas as to what you think you may do.

4500 plus in one session is a "BIG" session. Comparatively though, one could say 1500 plus is a big session. It just really depends on what doc you choose and their particular experience.

I think the forum members generally find that 3000 grafts is a big session as that is what most of the docs are doing nowadays when they "push the envelope" . Oddly, only a couple of years ago those same docs were saying that 3000 was ludicrous and unjustified (wide scars, low graft survival, etc.). Ultimately, the graft count average will continue to climb for those that truly understand that stepping outside of their comfort zone can inherently be a good thing.

Hair Apparent,

've never read here of any HT patient retaining all of his transplanted hairs in the first few weeks post-op, but I would imagine it's certainly possible.

Actually, we're seeing this more and more lately and we're not sure exactly why this is. Continued refinement to techniques may be one reason but it's a guess right now.

Congrats on round two. I know how good it can feel

Domie,

It was a pleasure having you with us. I'm truly excited about your impending results. Thanks for sharing with the group. Remember, the easy part is over. Now, you have to WAIT

Being 23 and losing hair on both sides of your hairline tells me that you may simply be experiencing natural progression from a juvenile hairline to an adult hairline. As men become adults, late teens to early twenties, the corners recede. At this point a lot of guys freak out and think they're going bald when they really aren't. Now, if it's actually worse and you're gretting an isolated forelock up front then that is different but if it's just a bit of recession making for more of a right angle in your temples then you're fine. My advice, if this is the case don't get a HT. Having recessed temples is natural and if you fill them in now you may only be setting yourself up for disappointment down the line. Only pics will tell us that story though so my rant is pure conjecture. Regardless, the advice to stay away from the chain clinics is sound. Also, stay away from anyone that tells you they'll restore your old hairline. Matter of fact, run, don't walk.

Attached is a copy of a public apology originally posted by Scarred4now/Smithfield/Brass&Stupid/Johnny22.

Hey man, you're the one that said you "know" all aren't candidates.

Everyone is a candidate as far as I know. No matter what the outcome, it will be better than had it not been done with tricho. Hair growing through a scar is better than no hair growing through a scar.

Johnnie69,

Why not?

Personally, I've had 8000 fu's from Dr. Wong. Before him I had 800 mini-grafts out of which only 300 grew. While only 300 grew the rough equivalent of 2000 plus fu's were pulled before I even met Dr. Wong so you could say that I've had 10,000 plus grafts but it's a toss up really.

Officially, the first with 10,000 was done three days ago by Dr. Wong. He was a NW7 with loads of dense strong donor hair. It took four, maybe five surgeries but this 40 something patient may very well have more grafts than anyone on the planet and is the first true all fu 10,000 graft patient. Official count is 10,188.

Nicnitro does not have 8500 but he may be there or higher if he has a second. Right now he's at 6279 in one session.

Time to take my thread back!

Here are the first photos we have of a patient that underwent revision of previous scars via tricho.

He had a pretty bad scar before that branched off into two scars on the left side. This was done at another clinic. The result of revising this scar was excellent but he wanted the best possbile result so he came back once he heard of tricho. At 1.5 months this is the result. It is still very early but considering where he started we feel this is fantastic.

Gorpy,

I appreciate the comments. What I am trying to do here is educate and share. That can only be accomplished with dialogue so here goes.

Point One.

The doctor you refer to and the patient you refer to are well known to me. Yes, the scar was average for a session of that size (5600 grafts). The measurement was 1 to 2mm in width. This was proven without any question via photographic evidence. 1 to 2mm is the holy grail for most clinics. It's being done with the large sessions. Are there other cases you are noting because you mentioned "some scars" denoting more than one.

Point 2

"...only under special circumstances". My point exactly. You don't see these huge sessions being performed on a daily basis. Five thousand is a reach because the average patient does not have the physiological characteristics to allow for this. However, techniques are utilized for these megasessions to significantly decrease the amount of tension on closure. Overall, the width is not so much of an issue because they really are not that much wider. As I said before, a

strip scar of 32x1 cm with average density of 85 per cm2 will yield about what you got, 2700 grafts. Add only a half centimeter and you will get 4000 grafts. The tension is negligible and a wider scar will not result.

Larger scars do not result from carefully executed mega sessions. They result from poor technique and the inability to identify the proper characteristics in the patient. This is eveidenced by the .5cm to 1cm scars I see all the time from 700 graft procedures performed in the past couple of years by other clinics.

Gorpy,

I wanted to take this into a new thread so that we don't hijack Slapshot's thread

You said...

"I have seen some very recent scars from mega session docs that I would not be happy with. One reputable doc commented on one case, "it looked pretty standard for such a large session"."

Can you elaborate more on this?

You also stated...

"I would also contend that mega session docs routinely push the envelope as far as strip width goes. You can argue that based on the skill and experience of the surgeon the risk is minimized. That might be a valid argument. It is all something to consider in a seemingly simple procedure."

It is something to consider, indeed. I'm curious about, I think you doc, offering 5000 grafts in two days vs. one. Can you comment on this?

Thanks for your time.

Gorpy,

Not at all.

I've seen some ugly looking scars from some of the mega mega session docs.

You said it, not me. I only called you on it.

You then said...

"You would have to go with one of those REALLY wide strips."

There was a bit O' embellishment with your post. I wanted to bring things back into perspective.

Gorpy,

Do you know the dimensions of your strip? I ask because your statement about going for "one of those REALLY wide strips" shows that either you don't understand the dynamics of the bigger strip surgeries or you are easily led into believing the negative propaganda distributed by docs that simply do not have the ability to improve themselves regarding session size and density.

Assuming you have average density of maybe 85 grafts per cm2 in your donor area your strip would need to be roughly 32 cm long x 1 cm wide. Just half a centimeter more in width would have yielded 4000 grafts. .5 cm is hardly "wide" when considering that 1cm is the standard for most clinics.

Your are happy with your work from Dr. Keene and that is what is important however do not criticize techniques that are being done on a daily basis with great success because you had a smaller procedure and have been told otherwise.

You said you've seen ugly looking scars from the "mega mega session docs". I'm curious to know what you call ugly because I have a rather plentiful database of 1cm wide scars from "good docs" on procedures your size and smaller.

If it really worked you'd hear about it all over the news not to mention all the HT clinics would be adopting it as an added service in their practices.

Gorpy,

I don't see how my post is condescending but if that is how it appears then I certainly did not mean for it to be.

My intent was to address the notion of the docs placing the grafts in the hairline and that they are best qualified. This may very well be the case in other clinics and there is nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact, I don't doubt it is the case in other clinics. I was challenging the notion that this should be true as a blanket statement for all clinics. Both Dr. Wong and Dr. Hasson will be the first to say that their technicians can place grafts better than they can so I believe that when one says that the doctor should be the only one to place grafts I again respectfully disagree. The technicians, only senior staff, do this all day every day and have so for years.

B,

You might want to lighten up on those exercises for a while. I don't want you doing them vigorously until six months post-op from HT #1. Let the donor area heal my friend then get busy.

B-spot and Gorpy,

I respectfully disagree regarding hairline graft placement. It depends on the technique used for making the incisions and of course experience.

Using our clinic for example, when using the lateral slit technique the grafts can only go in one way. The incision site is made by blades that are custom cut to the size of the graft going into it. This means not only the width but the depth as well. When the technicians are placing the grafts the grafts go in to that depth and are snug. They will not deviate from the direction and angle pre-determined by the doctor's incisions.

wesley949,

I experienced the same thing. My first two procedures in the early nineties left my donor area permanently numb. After my first with Dr. Wong the feeling returned 100%. I imaging that the scar tissue was so thick (scars were wide) that they blocked the nerve endings from reconnecting. Each subsequent procedure with Dr. Wong had my donor returning to normal within six to nine months.

Glad to hear you've got some feeling back.

"I need a slight bit of density near the crown. "

This alone tells me that your crown should be offlimits. If you are not on meds (you didn't say) then start yesterday. At 23 and with only slight thinning there's a good chance your crown could return.

Dr. Shapiro,

Great to see you participating on the boards. Dr. Hasson is out of town at the moment but I'll be sure to point our your questions so he can respond when he returns.