Neptune

Thanks HIGA! Latin CDs huh? I'll see what I can find as I've pretty much just been loading up my IPOD with stuff I could listen to but not subject the whole group to. Do they like you to actually bring your own music, or is that just something they say to be nice? Have not been to his office. Did all my consults on line and on the phone with pics from all angles flying back and forth. I'll check out the portolio when I'm there. His web site is pretty impressive so seeing what else he has in his office should be good. Thanks for all the support. Looking forward to Monday!

Going in for between 2,000 and 2,500 (depending on yield - more if they can get em) with Dr. Epstein this coming Monday, March 12th. All my grafts will be in the front half of my scalp as I have no crown issues as of yet (43 years of age). Don't have a pic (that isn't doctored) but hope to get some before and afters from the day of that I can doctor up and put out there for you to see. Needless to say, I'm pretty excited after having lurked here since last Summer and taken the great advice from many of you to look at surgeons across the country, and not just focus on one that is close to home. That led to my choice of Dr. E., primarily cause I'm interested in good work with a good chance of fast recovery so as to be able to return to work in a couple of weeks unnoticed. Time will tell if that strategy works, but I'm delighted with how professional Dr. E and his staff have been up to this point. Thanks for all the advice and information! I would never have gotten to this point without your help!

Going in for between 2,000 and 2,500 (depending on yield - more if they can get em) with Dr. Epstein this coming Monday, March 12th. All my grafts will be in the front half of my scalp as I have no crown issues as of yet (43 years of age). Don't have a pic (that isn't doctored) but hope to get some before and afters from the day of that I can doctor up and put out there for you to see. Needless to say, I'm pretty excited after having lurked here since last Summer and taken the great advice from many of you to look at surgeons across the country, and not just focus on one that is close to home. That led to my choice of Dr. E., primarily cause I'm interested in good work with a good chance of fast recovery so as to be able to return to work in a couple of weeks unnoticed. Time will tell if that strategy works, but I'm delighted with how professional Dr. E and his staff have been up to this point. Thanks for all the advice and information! I would never have gotten to this point without your help!

Starz: You are of no use to anyone on this board. You obviously are only here to stir up trouble and add uninformed commentary to those who know a Hell of a lot more than you do on this subject. Babble on if you must, but do not be surprised if the rest of us ignore you so as to save our time and energy for those who actually post here with good intentions.

Hey Gus. I too am scheduled with Dr. E coming up. Any chance you could post some of your post surgical pics? One of the things Dr. E seems to do very well is minimize the post surgical redness we often see after a HT. Sounds like you had a great experience. Keep us posted!

They will be stitches, not staples. I'll probably go find an AM/PM type clinic and let them take care of it. We'll be on vacation and I really don't want the wife to have a "oh, let me tell you about the time we were on vacation and my husband asked me to dig out his hair transplant stitches" story to use against me. And, with our luck, all would not go smooth and I might be worse for the wear after she deploys her surgical "skils." On another note, you Hockey guys are indeed CRAZY!

Don't worry HB. I'll be careful and wear a hat at all times outside. Just going to California, and won't be hanging on a beach or anything. Wonder if anyone has actually taken the stitches out themselves? I have some suture removal scissors, and could give it a try. But a friend who had the same procedure said the stitches are really, really tight and it would be hard to get them out myself. Otherwise, I'd just drink some whiskey, bite down on a piece of wood and have a go at it! Well, OK. Maybe just have a beer and let the wife try to dig them out. Sounds like more trouble than I care to go through though.

Getting ready for a procedure with Dr. E. so good to know your experience. Glad to know you are better. Regarding the right side growing faster than the left, anyone really know why this is?

Bill: I will for sure post pics just as soon as I get some software to edit them. Unfortunately, I can't go to my primary care doc cause I work in health care in my city (not that big a city), and until I decide to tell people I'm having (or had) this done, I can't go to any doc here cause there's too big a chance word will leak out! I figured it might be nice to get it done (stitches removal) while out of town just so I don't have to worry about who might know me. Really can't wait till next week but getting anxious all the same. You just say, man I hope this works cause once that scar is there, there's no going back! I've been on proscar for 4 months and Rogaine for years, and my hair loss has stabilized, if not down right stopped. As long as the stuff that's moved works well, it should be a good deal. Being an observer of this board has been a HUGE boost. It was because of all of you that I researched people outside my state and ended up picking Dr. Epstein. I'm hopeful I end up with the same results of most of his patients cause I really like his work. Thanks again and I'll keep everyone posted after the 12th.

Gang: I'm having my procedure done a week from Monday (on March 12th), and will then be home a few days before heading out of town on vacation for Spring Break. My question is this: Would it be acceptable to pop into an AM/PM type clinic and pay them to remove the stitches? My doc (Dr. Epstein) said I could remove them, but others have told me this is not easy to do or have a spouse do. Any reason why a nurse at a clinic like that couldn't take them out?

Gang: I'm having my procedure done a week from Monday (on March 12th), and will then be home a few days before heading out of town on vacation for Spring Break. My question is this: Would it be acceptable to pop into an AM/PM type clinic and pay them to remove the stitches? My doc (Dr. Epstein) said I could remove them, but others have told me this is not easy to do or have a spouse do. Any reason why a nurse at a clinic like that couldn't take them out?

Of course I'm biased but I've heard great things about Epstein on this board!

They don't have to say it grows hair. Why? Cause you just walk into a Supercuts or other hair cutting studio that sells the stuff and almost all the people that work there will tell you it grows hair! I spent 20 minutes once trying to explain to this hairdresser why it doesn't actually "grow" hair, but rather at best might promote a healthy scalp or make your existing hair look and feel better. We eventually just had to agree to disagree.

I know you are dissapointed but we'll be throwing you a party (online of course) later this Summer when it's a 100 degrees outside and your hair is growing like mad!

Toad: I consulted with Dr. Lehr prior to choosing Dr. Epstein. My choice had absolutely nothing to do with any concern other than rapid healing time. I also spoke to Dr. Alexander's office and Dr. Shapiro's office before settling on Dr. E. I might have chosen Dr. Shapiro if not for the fact I've got lots of friends in Minneapolis and didn't want to take a chance (yeah, I know it's a big city, but you really do run into people when you think you won't) on seeing anyone I knew. Same thing for Oklahoma City. So for privacy Miami seemed perfect. Regarding rapid healing times, Dr. Lehr (who probably is the most straightforward doc I've ever known) point blank told me I would have post op redness that would be pretty significant and there was really no way to know how long it would last. Might be days, might be months. Everyone is different. Dr. E on the other hand said 8-10 days and it will be hard to tell you had any work done. Looking at post op pics of his patients that certainly seemed to be the case. Not sure what he does different (be that blades or technique), but I could clearly see the results I was looking for. I wanted a great job done and I want to (after a couple weeks) be able to go back to work without anyone knowing what I did. Whether or not that happens we won't know till next month. You can talk to RJVW who just had his work done with Dr. E and he'll confirm that as little as a few days after his procedure his head looked so good nobody noticed a thing. I'll let you (and everyone else here) know how my procedure goes next month. Hopefully I'll get the results I'm looking for but you'll see what happens one way or the other. If you have any other questions, feel free to pm me and I'll answer any other questions I can.

Toad: Looking great at this point and I echo what others have said here - We are excited for you and what good things await you in a few months! If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you about your post op redness. We have (here on the boards) been discussing the difference between post op redness with surgeons who use the stick and place (which I believe your surgeon, Dr. Lehr, does) and others (examples given but many more, Shapiro, Epstain, etc.) who use custom blades with incisions made by the surgeons themselves. In comparing your post op redness with 1800 grafts to say, RJVW who had 2100 with Dr. Epstein, it appears that the immediate post op redness and that experienced by you was somewhat greater than his. Now, this is not an attack on Dr. Lehr who is a fine doc and your results will be great. But there does seem to be a significant difference in redness post op and I'm wondering if the stick and place technique (as performed by techs) is somehow responsible for this or if it just happened to be the luck of the draw. I'd be curious if your redness was greater than expected or about what you thought it'd be. Also, I'd be curious if others who compare Toad's pics to RJVW's would chime in (or other pics that you want to compare).

I decided this deserved a thread of its own. Hope you find this useful as I have since it appears most surgeons prohibit alcohol, asprin and various other things prior to surgery in order to not have thin blood, which makes surgery all the more complicated. So, as for diet, I found the following information. Hope you find it useful. From: http://www.ctds.info/natthinners.html Foods that Naturally Thin the Blood There are a number of foods and supplements that are known to thin the blood. These include foods with high amounts of aspirin like substances called salicylates, omega-3 fatty acids, foods with natural antibiotic properties and vitamin E supplements. It is important to note that while many Americans have problems with blood clots, it is not true that blood thinning foods are desirable for everyone in the population. I have been an easy bleeder all of my life, so I have compiled much of the information on this list so I know which foods to limit in order to keep my blood from being too thin. People taking prescription anticoagulant drugs also need to be careful not to consume too many foods with natural blood thinning compounds in addition to their regular medication. One of my relatives is on a prescription anticoagulant drug for blood clots and has gotten eye hemorrhages from ingesting too many blood thinning foods in conjunction with his prescription medication. Interestingly, my relative was given a list of foods high in vitamin K so he would know what foods to limit so as not to reduce the effectiveness of his medication. However he was not given a list of foods that have their own anticoagulant properties, which is taken in conjunction with his medication could cause bleeding problems. He found some information on his own about blood thinning foods after he had a couple of eye hemorrhages. Blood coagulation should fall within a desirable range. If blood coagulates too easily, clots can form which in turn can lead to adverse health conditions such as heart attacks. However, if blood doesn't clot enough, conditions such as hematuria (blood in the urine), hemorrhages, heavy periods in women, nosebleeds and bleeding strokes may occur. If a person's blood isn't clotting enough and he has surgery or a traumatic event like a car accident, he could have a serious problem by losing too much blood if any wounds or surgical incisions failed to clot properly. Some of the foods that are generally thought to have natural blood thinning compounds are listed below. Please note that this is a hodge podge list based on information I've collected over the years based on my own experiences and my assortment of alternative health books, so it's possible it may contain some errors. See your doctor before you implement any diet, supplement or exercise changes, especially if you are taking any prescription medications or have any health concerns related to coagulation. Salicylates One type of natural blood thinners are substances that block vitamin K. These include salicylates. The most well known of these is aspirin, but many foods, such as preservatives and flavorings, also contain salicylates or aspirin like substances. Some individuals are known to be aspirin or salicylate sensitive. I'm one of those salicylate sensitive types, but I have found that I can eat more salicylates as long as I eat a balanced amount of vitamin K foods, too. (Vitamin K plays an important role in the body's in blood clotting processes.) Foods that are generally high in salicylates include many spices, most fruit, especially dried fruits, nuts, and also some flavorings and preservatives. Herbs and spices high in salicylates include: * Curry powder * Cayenne pepper * Ginger * Paprika * Thyme * Cinnamon * Dill * Oregano * Turmeric * Licorice * Peppermint In Ayurvedic (traditional Indian medicine) many of the above spices are known as "warming spices". I think this is because by thinning the blood they increase a person's blood circulation, which in turn speeds up the metabolism and makes a person feel warmer. My family was really cold one late evening at Disneyland, but as soon as we ate some churros we all warmed up. We did not know why at the time, but later realized it was because the churros were dipped in sugar with cinnamon, a spice high in blood thinning compounds and known as a warming spice in Ayurvedic medicine. One of my children has had trouble with night sweats, so we put him on a diet that among other changes limited the amount of salicylates he consumed. That seemed to help him stay much cooler at night. Fruits high in salicylates include * Raisins * Prunes * Cherries * Cranberries * Blueberries * Grapes * Strawberries * Tangerines * Oranges Other substance high in salicylates: * Almonds * Chewing gum * Honey * Peppermints * Vinegar * Wine * Almonds * Vinegar * Cider Though there are some exceptions, in general most meat, fish, dairy, grains and vegetable foods are not high in salicylates. Many types of fish do however have blood thinning properties due to their omega-3 fatty acid content, as noted below. Vitamin E Vitamin E is an antagonist to vitamin K. Some foods and topical substances these days are preserved with vitamin E, so it pays to read labels carefully. One of my sons, who also seems to be an easy bleeder like me, developed severe nose bleeds from a hand lotion that had vitamin E used as a preservative. Foods high in vitamin E may not necessarily thin the blood, as many foods high in vitamin E, such as spinach and broccoli also contain significant amounts of vitamin K, which tend to clot the blood. I was prescribed vitamin E supplements at one time by a doctor for fibrocystic breasts. Afterwards, I developed an increased number of bleeding and bruising problems. Then I did some research on my own and realized vitamin E could thin the blood. Most medical articles states that people have to take relatively large doses of vitamin E in order for it to have an effect on coagulation. However, I don't think that is true for everyone. For people like me who are easy bleeders even small amounts of vitamin E can cause bleeding issues. Vitamin B6? This is just an anecdotal report based on my own experience, but I took a vitamin B6 supplement at one time and developed a really bad nose bleed shortly afterwards. The nose bleed stopped when I had a vitamin K rich salad, so I do think that the bleeding was from a lack of vitamin K and not other causes, such as trauma or high blood pressure. The vitamin B6 tablet was the only change I made in my usual diet and routine that day. Interestingly, one of my health books noted that vitamin B6 lowers estrogen levels, and it is well established through medical studies that increased estrogen levels are linked to blood clots. As such, if vitamin B6 does lower estrogen levels, then it may make sense that it may also thin the blood. However, I have never found any studies noting this association, so at this time the link between vitamin B6 and thinner blood is just a hypothesis in my part based on information from my health books, my own experience and logical deduction. Omega- 3 Fatty Acids Omega-3 fatty acids have received a lot of press lately because of their ability to lower cholesterol levels and make the blood less prone to clotting. Fish oil is usually high in omega-3s and can be ingested either through purchasing capsules or by eating fatty fish. Fish with high amounts of omega-3s include: * Mackerel * Anchovies * Salmon * Albacore tuna * Mackerel * Lake Trout * Herring When eating fish, one danger is that many fish have high mercury levels, so experts often have mixed recommendations on exactly just how healthy eating a lot of seafood is for most people. The chart in this link to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency web site contains a table of mercury levels in commercial fish and shellfish. Fish may be a great food for people who are at risk for blood clots, but for easy bleeders like me it is a food I need to limit, regardless of mercury levels. Additional Selected Foods With Compounds That Thin the Blood * Tree Ear * Jicama * Garlic * Onions * Olive Oil Garlic and onions are natural antibiotics that can kill the intestinal bacteria that manufacture vitamin K. Many studies have found that long term prescription antibiotic use can cause bleeding problems due to a vitamin K deficiency. However, for people like me who seem to always be short on vitamin K, even small amounts of foods with natural antibiotics properties, like garlic and onions, are problematic. I often avoid eating at Italian restaurants because of their liberal use of garlic. When I do eat Italian food, I also try to have have a salad with lots of leafy green vegetables high in vitamin K as a part of my meal. James A. Duke, author of several books on herbal medicine, notes that garlic has nine different compounds that are antiaggregants (compounds that prevent the blood platelets from sticking together). Exercise Based on studies of female athletes, vigorous exercise seems to lower vitamin K levels. Women who are elite athletes, i.e. those who over exercise, instead of being healthy actually are at risk for hypoestrogenism, osteoporosis and vitamin K deficiency. Vitamin K is necessary to clot the blood, so by logical deduction then it may be prudent to consider the possibility that over exercising may thin the blood since it is known to lower levels of vitamin K. At the other end of the spectrum, we know that people who remain stationary for long periods, such as people on bed rest, in car trips or travelers on long plane flights, are at risk for blood clots. One of my relatives developed a blood clot in his leg on a flight from Europe to the U.S. and had to have emergency surgery shortly after landing in the U.S. Sunshine / Vitamin D? In Ayurvedic medicine, sunshine is supposed to be good for a person's circulation, which I've found usually means it also thins the blood. As noted above, other Ayurvedic remedies for improving circulation, such as cinnamon and ginger, have actually been proven in modern medical studies to be natural blood thinners. As such, it would be logical to consider the possibility that if Ayurvedic medicine was correct about the spices thinning the blood, they may have been right about sunshine, too. Interestingly, a recent medical study found that a "clinical trial of a biologically active metabolite of Vitamin D3 demonstrated an unanticipated reduction of thrombosis in cancer patients." Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin that we can obtain in two ways: 1) through food; or 2) it can be synthesized by the body after exposure to sunshine. I don't know if these means that sunshine would have the same impact on blood as the vitamin D from the study, but it is interesting food for thought. If sunshine is found to be a blood thinner, it would confirm what Ayurvedic practitioners have thought to be true for thousands of years. Summary It is well known that foods that elevate vitamin K levels, such as lettuce and broccoli, may clot the blood. People who are taking anticoagulants are often warned to limit these types of foods so they don't counteract the effectiveness of their medicine. However, it is often overlooked that many foods and environmental factors, especially those that lower vitamin K levels, may thin the blood. This information may be important for people on anticoagulants to be aware of in order to prevent their blood from becoming too thin. Sources: 1. Murray, M. and Pizzorno, J. (1998). Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine. Rocklin, California: Prima Publishing. 2. Carper, J. (1988). The Food Pharmacy. New York: Banam Books 3. Hausman, P. & Benn Hurley, J. (1989). The Healing Foods. Emmaus, Pennsylvania: Rodale Press 4. Duke, J.A. (1997). The Green Pharmacy. Emmaus, Pennsylvania: Rodale Press

I decided this deserved a thread of its own. Hope you find this useful as I have since it appears most surgeons prohibit alcohol, asprin and various other things prior to surgery in order to not have thin blood, which makes surgery all the more complicated. So, as for diet, I found the following information. Hope you find it useful. From: http://www.ctds.info/natthinners.html Foods that Naturally Thin the Blood There are a number of foods and supplements that are known to thin the blood. These include foods with high amounts of aspirin like substances called salicylates, omega-3 fatty acids, foods with natural antibiotic properties and vitamin E supplements. It is important to note that while many Americans have problems with blood clots, it is not true that blood thinning foods are desirable for everyone in the population. I have been an easy bleeder all of my life, so I have compiled much of the information on this list so I know which foods to limit in order to keep my blood from being too thin. People taking prescription anticoagulant drugs also need to be careful not to consume too many foods with natural blood thinning compounds in addition to their regular medication. One of my relatives is on a prescription anticoagulant drug for blood clots and has gotten eye hemorrhages from ingesting too many blood thinning foods in conjunction with his prescription medication. Interestingly, my relative was given a list of foods high in vitamin K so he would know what foods to limit so as not to reduce the effectiveness of his medication. However he was not given a list of foods that have their own anticoagulant properties, which is taken in conjunction with his medication could cause bleeding problems. He found some information on his own about blood thinning foods after he had a couple of eye hemorrhages. Blood coagulation should fall within a desirable range. If blood coagulates too easily, clots can form which in turn can lead to adverse health conditions such as heart attacks. However, if blood doesn't clot enough, conditions such as hematuria (blood in the urine), hemorrhages, heavy periods in women, nosebleeds and bleeding strokes may occur. If a person's blood isn't clotting enough and he has surgery or a traumatic event like a car accident, he could have a serious problem by losing too much blood if any wounds or surgical incisions failed to clot properly. Some of the foods that are generally thought to have natural blood thinning compounds are listed below. Please note that this is a hodge podge list based on information I've collected over the years based on my own experiences and my assortment of alternative health books, so it's possible it may contain some errors. See your doctor before you implement any diet, supplement or exercise changes, especially if you are taking any prescription medications or have any health concerns related to coagulation. Salicylates One type of natural blood thinners are substances that block vitamin K. These include salicylates. The most well known of these is aspirin, but many foods, such as preservatives and flavorings, also contain salicylates or aspirin like substances. Some individuals are known to be aspirin or salicylate sensitive. I'm one of those salicylate sensitive types, but I have found that I can eat more salicylates as long as I eat a balanced amount of vitamin K foods, too. (Vitamin K plays an important role in the body's in blood clotting processes.) Foods that are generally high in salicylates include many spices, most fruit, especially dried fruits, nuts, and also some flavorings and preservatives. Herbs and spices high in salicylates include: * Curry powder * Cayenne pepper * Ginger * Paprika * Thyme * Cinnamon * Dill * Oregano * Turmeric * Licorice * Peppermint In Ayurvedic (traditional Indian medicine) many of the above spices are known as "warming spices". I think this is because by thinning the blood they increase a person's blood circulation, which in turn speeds up the metabolism and makes a person feel warmer. My family was really cold one late evening at Disneyland, but as soon as we ate some churros we all warmed up. We did not know why at the time, but later realized it was because the churros were dipped in sugar with cinnamon, a spice high in blood thinning compounds and known as a warming spice in Ayurvedic medicine. One of my children has had trouble with night sweats, so we put him on a diet that among other changes limited the amount of salicylates he consumed. That seemed to help him stay much cooler at night. Fruits high in salicylates include * Raisins * Prunes * Cherries * Cranberries * Blueberries * Grapes * Strawberries * Tangerines * Oranges Other substance high in salicylates: * Almonds * Chewing gum * Honey * Peppermints * Vinegar * Wine * Almonds * Vinegar * Cider Though there are some exceptions, in general most meat, fish, dairy, grains and vegetable foods are not high in salicylates. Many types of fish do however have blood thinning properties due to their omega-3 fatty acid content, as noted below. Vitamin E Vitamin E is an antagonist to vitamin K. Some foods and topical substances these days are preserved with vitamin E, so it pays to read labels carefully. One of my sons, who also seems to be an easy bleeder like me, developed severe nose bleeds from a hand lotion that had vitamin E used as a preservative. Foods high in vitamin E may not necessarily thin the blood, as many foods high in vitamin E, such as spinach and broccoli also contain significant amounts of vitamin K, which tend to clot the blood. I was prescribed vitamin E supplements at one time by a doctor for fibrocystic breasts. Afterwards, I developed an increased number of bleeding and bruising problems. Then I did some research on my own and realized vitamin E could thin the blood. Most medical articles states that people have to take relatively large doses of vitamin E in order for it to have an effect on coagulation. However, I don't think that is true for everyone. For people like me who are easy bleeders even small amounts of vitamin E can cause bleeding issues. Vitamin B6? This is just an anecdotal report based on my own experience, but I took a vitamin B6 supplement at one time and developed a really bad nose bleed shortly afterwards. The nose bleed stopped when I had a vitamin K rich salad, so I do think that the bleeding was from a lack of vitamin K and not other causes, such as trauma or high blood pressure. The vitamin B6 tablet was the only change I made in my usual diet and routine that day. Interestingly, one of my health books noted that vitamin B6 lowers estrogen levels, and it is well established through medical studies that increased estrogen levels are linked to blood clots. As such, if vitamin B6 does lower estrogen levels, then it may make sense that it may also thin the blood. However, I have never found any studies noting this association, so at this time the link between vitamin B6 and thinner blood is just a hypothesis in my part based on information from my health books, my own experience and logical deduction. Omega- 3 Fatty Acids Omega-3 fatty acids have received a lot of press lately because of their ability to lower cholesterol levels and make the blood less prone to clotting. Fish oil is usually high in omega-3s and can be ingested either through purchasing capsules or by eating fatty fish. Fish with high amounts of omega-3s include: * Mackerel * Anchovies * Salmon * Albacore tuna * Mackerel * Lake Trout * Herring When eating fish, one danger is that many fish have high mercury levels, so experts often have mixed recommendations on exactly just how healthy eating a lot of seafood is for most people. The chart in this link to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency web site contains a table of mercury levels in commercial fish and shellfish. Fish may be a great food for people who are at risk for blood clots, but for easy bleeders like me it is a food I need to limit, regardless of mercury levels. Additional Selected Foods With Compounds That Thin the Blood * Tree Ear * Jicama * Garlic * Onions * Olive Oil Garlic and onions are natural antibiotics that can kill the intestinal bacteria that manufacture vitamin K. Many studies have found that long term prescription antibiotic use can cause bleeding problems due to a vitamin K deficiency. However, for people like me who seem to always be short on vitamin K, even small amounts of foods with natural antibiotics properties, like garlic and onions, are problematic. I often avoid eating at Italian restaurants because of their liberal use of garlic. When I do eat Italian food, I also try to have have a salad with lots of leafy green vegetables high in vitamin K as a part of my meal. James A. Duke, author of several books on herbal medicine, notes that garlic has nine different compounds that are antiaggregants (compounds that prevent the blood platelets from sticking together). Exercise Based on studies of female athletes, vigorous exercise seems to lower vitamin K levels. Women who are elite athletes, i.e. those who over exercise, instead of being healthy actually are at risk for hypoestrogenism, osteoporosis and vitamin K deficiency. Vitamin K is necessary to clot the blood, so by logical deduction then it may be prudent to consider the possibility that over exercising may thin the blood since it is known to lower levels of vitamin K. At the other end of the spectrum, we know that people who remain stationary for long periods, such as people on bed rest, in car trips or travelers on long plane flights, are at risk for blood clots. One of my relatives developed a blood clot in his leg on a flight from Europe to the U.S. and had to have emergency surgery shortly after landing in the U.S. Sunshine / Vitamin D? In Ayurvedic medicine, sunshine is supposed to be good for a person's circulation, which I've found usually means it also thins the blood. As noted above, other Ayurvedic remedies for improving circulation, such as cinnamon and ginger, have actually been proven in modern medical studies to be natural blood thinners. As such, it would be logical to consider the possibility that if Ayurvedic medicine was correct about the spices thinning the blood, they may have been right about sunshine, too. Interestingly, a recent medical study found that a "clinical trial of a biologically active metabolite of Vitamin D3 demonstrated an unanticipated reduction of thrombosis in cancer patients." Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin that we can obtain in two ways: 1) through food; or 2) it can be synthesized by the body after exposure to sunshine. I don't know if these means that sunshine would have the same impact on blood as the vitamin D from the study, but it is interesting food for thought. If sunshine is found to be a blood thinner, it would confirm what Ayurvedic practitioners have thought to be true for thousands of years. Summary It is well known that foods that elevate vitamin K levels, such as lettuce and broccoli, may clot the blood. People who are taking anticoagulants are often warned to limit these types of foods so they don't counteract the effectiveness of their medicine. However, it is often overlooked that many foods and environmental factors, especially those that lower vitamin K levels, may thin the blood. This information may be important for people on anticoagulants to be aware of in order to prevent their blood from becoming too thin. Sources: 1. Murray, M. and Pizzorno, J. (1998). Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine. Rocklin, California: Prima Publishing. 2. Carper, J. (1988). The Food Pharmacy. New York: Banam Books 3. Hausman, P. & Benn Hurley, J. (1989). The Healing Foods. Emmaus, Pennsylvania: Rodale Press 4. Duke, J.A. (1997). The Green Pharmacy. Emmaus, Pennsylvania: Rodale Press

Sorry, the table showing cause and affect did not format correctly. To see it, check out the link on the site I provided above.

Prepare for information overload: I'm not sure this doesn't deserve a thread of its own, but I'll throw this information I found out there and you can decide. Interesting stuff related to things that "thin" the blood. Take a look at this article. http://www.ctds.info/natthinners.html Foods that Naturally Thin the Blood There are a number of foods and supplements that are known to thin the blood. These include foods with high amounts of aspirin like substances called salicylates, omega-3 fatty acids, foods with natural antibiotic properties and vitamin E supplements. It is important to note that while many Americans have problems with blood clots, it is not true that blood thinning foods are desirable for everyone in the population. I have been an easy bleeder all of my life, so I have compiled much of the information on this list so I know which foods to limit in order to keep my blood from being too thin. People taking prescription anticoagulant drugs also need to be careful not to consume too many foods with natural blood thinning compounds in addition to their regular medication. One of my relatives is on a prescription anticoagulant drug for blood clots and has gotten eye hemorrhages from ingesting too many blood thinning foods in conjunction with his prescription medication. Interestingly, my relative was given a list of foods high in vitamin K so he would know what foods to limit so as not to reduce the effectiveness of his medication. However he was not given a list of foods that have their own anticoagulant properties, which is taken in conjunction with his medication could cause bleeding problems. He found some information on his own about blood thinning foods after he had a couple of eye hemorrhages. Blood coagulation should fall within a desirable range. If blood coagulates too easily, clots can form which in turn can lead to adverse health conditions such as heart attacks. However, if blood doesn't clot enough, conditions such as hematuria (blood in the urine), hemorrhages, heavy periods in women, nosebleeds and bleeding strokes may occur. If a person's blood isn't clotting enough and he has surgery or a traumatic event like a car accident, he could have a serious problem by losing too much blood if any wounds or surgical incisions failed to clot properly. Some of the foods that are generally thought to have natural blood thinning compounds are listed below. Please note that this is a hodge podge list based on information I've collected over the years based on my own experiences and my assortment of alternative health books, so it's possible it may contain some errors. See your doctor before you implement any diet, supplement or exercise changes, especially if you are taking any prescription medications or have any health concerns related to coagulation. Salicylates One type of natural blood thinners are substances that block vitamin K. These include salicylates. The most well known of these is aspirin, but many foods, such as preservatives and flavorings, also contain salicylates or aspirin like substances. Some individuals are known to be aspirin or salicylate sensitive. I'm one of those salicylate sensitive types, but I have found that I can eat more salicylates as long as I eat a balanced amount of vitamin K foods, too. (Vitamin K plays an important role in the body's in blood clotting processes.) Foods that are generally high in salicylates include many spices, most fruit, especially dried fruits, nuts, and also some flavorings and preservatives. Herbs and spices high in salicylates include: * Curry powder * Cayenne pepper * Ginger * Paprika * Thyme * Cinnamon * Dill * Oregano * Turmeric * Licorice * Peppermint In Ayurvedic (traditional Indian medicine) many of the above spices are known as "warming spices". I think this is because by thinning the blood they increase a person's blood circulation, which in turn speeds up the metabolism and makes a person feel warmer. My family was really cold one late evening at Disneyland, but as soon as we ate some churros we all warmed up. We did not know why at the time, but later realized it was because the churros were dipped in sugar with cinnamon, a spice high in blood thinning compounds and known as a warming spice in Ayurvedic medicine. One of my children has had trouble with night sweats, so we put him on a diet that among other changes limited the amount of salicylates he consumed. That seemed to help him stay much cooler at night. Fruits high in salicylates include * Raisins * Prunes * Cherries * Cranberries * Blueberries * Grapes * Strawberries * Tangerines * Oranges Other substance high in salicylates: * Almonds * Chewing gum * Honey * Peppermints * Vinegar * Wine * Almonds * Vinegar * Cider Though there are some exceptions, in general most meat, fish, dairy, grains and vegetable foods are not high in salicylates. Many types of fish do however have blood thinning properties due to their omega-3 fatty acid content, as noted below. Vitamin E Vitamin E is an antagonist to vitamin K. Some foods and topical substances these days are preserved with vitamin E, so it pays to read labels carefully. One of my sons, who also seems to be an easy bleeder like me, developed severe nose bleeds from a hand lotion that had vitamin E used as a preservative. Foods high in vitamin E may not necessarily thin the blood, as many foods high in vitamin E, such as spinach and broccoli also contain significant amounts of vitamin K, which tend to clot the blood. I was prescribed vitamin E supplements at one time by a doctor for fibrocystic breasts. Afterwards, I developed an increased number of bleeding and bruising problems. Then I did some research on my own and realized vitamin E could thin the blood. Most medical articles states that people have to take relatively large doses of vitamin E in order for it to have an effect on coagulation. However, I don't think that is true for everyone. For people like me who are easy bleeders even small amounts of vitamin E can cause bleeding issues. Vitamin B6? This is just an anecdotal report based on my own experience, but I took a vitamin B6 supplement at one time and developed a really bad nose bleed shortly afterwards. The nose bleed stopped when I had a vitamin K rich salad, so I do think that the bleeding was from a lack of vitamin K and not other causes, such as trauma or high blood pressure. The vitamin B6 tablet was the only change I made in my usual diet and routine that day. Interestingly, one of my health books noted that vitamin B6 lowers estrogen levels, and it is well established through medical studies that increased estrogen levels are linked to blood clots. As such, if vitamin B6 does lower estrogen levels, then it may make sense that it may also thin the blood. However, I have never found any studies noting this association, so at this time the link between vitamin B6 and thinner blood is just a hypothesis in my part based on information from my health books, my own experience and logical deduction. Omega- 3 Fatty Acids Omega-3 fatty acids have received a lot of press lately because of their ability to lower cholesterol levels and make the blood less prone to clotting. Fish oil is usually high in omega-3s and can be ingested either through purchasing capsules or by eating fatty fish. Fish with high amounts of omega-3s include: * Mackerel * Anchovies * Salmon * Albacore tuna * Mackerel * Lake Trout * Herring When eating fish, one danger is that many fish have high mercury levels, so experts often have mixed recommendations on exactly just how healthy eating a lot of seafood is for most people. The chart in this link to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency web site contains a table of mercury levels in commercial fish and shellfish. Fish may be a great food for people who are at risk for blood clots, but for easy bleeders like me it is a food I need to limit, regardless of mercury levels. Additional Selected Foods With Compounds That Thin the Blood * Tree Ear * Jicama * Garlic * Onions * Olive Oil Garlic and onions are natural antibiotics that can kill the intestinal bacteria that manufacture vitamin K. Many studies have found that long term prescription antibiotic use can cause bleeding problems due to a vitamin K deficiency. However, for people like me who seem to always be short on vitamin K, even small amounts of foods with natural antibiotics properties, like garlic and onions, are problematic. I often avoid eating at Italian restaurants because of their liberal use of garlic. When I do eat Italian food, I also try to have have a salad with lots of leafy green vegetables high in vitamin K as a part of my meal. James A. Duke, author of several books on herbal medicine, notes that garlic has nine different compounds that are antiaggregants (compounds that prevent the blood platelets from sticking together). Exercise Based on studies of female athletes, vigorous exercise seems to lower vitamin K levels. Women who are elite athletes, i.e. those who over exercise, instead of being healthy actually are at risk for hypoestrogenism, osteoporosis and vitamin K deficiency. Vitamin K is necessary to clot the blood, so by logical deduction then it may be prudent to consider the possibility that over exercising may thin the blood since it is known to lower levels of vitamin K. At the other end of the spectrum, we know that people who remain stationary for long periods, such as people on bed rest, in car trips or travelers on long plane flights, are at risk for blood clots. One of my relatives developed a blood clot in his leg on a flight from Europe to the U.S. and had to have emergency surgery shortly after landing in the U.S. By logical deduction then, the table below may illustrate the links between the conditions associated with remaining stationary and the conditions with over exercising, two conditions at the opposite end of the spectrum. Remaining stationary <=> Vigorous Exercising Blood Clots <=> Vitamin K deficiency Thinner blood Higher estrogen levels <=> Low estrogen levels Increased cancer risk <=> Decreased cancer risk Table showing known links between exercise, estrogen levels, vitamin K, cancer and blood clotting. Sunshine / Vitamin D? In Ayurvedic medicine, sunshine is supposed to be good for a person's circulation, which I've found usually means it also thins the blood. As noted above, other Ayurvedic remedies for improving circulation, such as cinnamon and ginger, have actually been proven in modern medical studies to be natural blood thinners. As such, it would be logical to consider the possibility that if Ayurvedic medicine was correct about the spices thinning the blood, they may have been right about sunshine, too. Interestingly, a recent medical study found that a "clinical trial of a biologically active metabolite of Vitamin D3 demonstrated an unanticipated reduction of thrombosis in cancer patients." Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin that we can obtain in two ways: 1) through food; or 2) it can be synthesized by the body after exposure to sunshine. I don't know if these means that sunshine would have the same impact on blood as the vitamin D from the study, but it is interesting food for thought. If sunshine is found to be a blood thinner, it would confirm what Ayurvedic practitioners have thought to be true for thousands of years. Summary It is well known that foods that elevate vitamin K levels, such as lettuce and broccoli, may clot the blood. People who are taking anticoagulants are often warned to limit these types of foods so they don't counteract the effectiveness of their medicine. However, it is often overlooked that many foods and environmental factors, especially those that lower vitamin K levels, may thin the blood. This information may be important for people on anticoagulants to be aware of in order to prevent their blood from becoming too thin. Sources: 1. Murray, M. and Pizzorno, J. (1998). Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine. Rocklin, California: Prima Publishing. 2. Carper, J. (1988). The Food Pharmacy. New York: Banam Books 3. Hausman, P. & Benn Hurley, J. (1989). The Healing Foods. Emmaus, Pennsylvania: Rodale Press 4. Duke, J.A. (1997). The Green Pharmacy. Emmaus, Pennsylvania: Rodale Press

This may get lost in the "battle"taking place above, but here goes! I know in researching who to use as a HT doc, one thing that was important to me was finding someone who could assure rapid healing. In my case, I selected Jeffrey Epstein who uses custom blades. I did not find a "stick and place" doc who could show via pics that their post surgical redness was similar to guys like Shapiro, Epstein and others who use these tiny blades - Very small amounts of redness and rapid healing. Maybe they exist and I just havent' seen them. Quite likely. So here's the question I'd raise: Should we do an investigation to see if there are any docs (coalition or other) that can as a whole show their "stick and place" technique is as "less traumatic" to the scalp as those using custom blades and lateral slits? Or, is this something that is just not that big a deal? Sure was to me when looking for a doc, but maybe not so much to others.

Spoon: What is the difference between pins and using needles for stick and place? Has anyone ever compared the post surgical redness/pinkness/hair angle placement effectiveness with needles versus custome cut blades?

Found this on MSM and blood thinning. http://www.arthritis-msm-supplements.com/faq.htm The key paragraph says this: Is safe to mix MSM with other prescribed medications? MSM has been observed in clinical settings some indications that it may have a blood-thinning, aspirin like effect on platelet aggregation. Therefore, you should consult your doctor if you are taking high doses of aspirin, or blood-thinning medication such as heparin or dicumarol. Would indicate that MSM should be discontinued like asprin prior to transplants.

After hearing what happened to you YoungGuy, I for sure will. Thanks for the heads up! Does anyone know what the impact (if any) of MSM is on thinning of blood?

My instructions say no asprin 10 days prior and no alcohol 3 days prior. I hear several here say their docs said no alcohol a week prior. Is there not some way to define a "standard" practice here? Asprin seems straightforward. Alcohol not so much. A week seems safe by everyone's standards. But Dr. Epstein says three days. I imagine (based on photos of many patients) he has enough experience to warrant his protocol. Again, I'm not advocating less than a week. Just sharing info. I'll stop good wine a week prior just to avoid any risk. It might be useful for others who have experienced other surgeons to chime in and maybe we can come up with some "alcohol" majority accepted "safe zone" for those who will follow us. If only a few docs are three days, and the rest are a week, that should say something. Then I hear there is a whole different issue when it comes to MSM.