Jacob

Actually I think you do know what point I'm trying to make. You can't tell me you'll spend time digging up those pictures/threads but can't find and post what should be very easy to get ahold of- the trialist photo's from the FDA approval trials of Propecia and Minoxidil. Only one thread/pic set was of somebody using just one of those products. I guess I can just post threads of those who use a laser device along with other things, including Propecia and Minoxidil. I'd also like to refer you back to the points I've made regarding the laser devices and before/after pictures that are on those sites. Yes I am advocating laser therapy CAN work. Check out the thread over at Hair Loss Help where studies etc are being posted, even ones where the use of lasers for the REMOVAL of hair have ended up causing regrowth etc. I'll post them here eventually I suppose.

Even if it helps there's no point...say what?? Some would say minoxidil doesn't fight the underlying problem. Then there are those, and there are plenty, who use things other than just minoxidil and propecia(besides a laser device, that is).

Bill...you didn't provide what I asked for. As I said earlier I have no desire to weed through posts and look for pictures from those using a laser device(which hasn't been around as long as Propecia or Minox, btw). I asked for the TRIALISTS pictures since you guys are so hung up on "FDA approved" and those things being approved. Of course it doesn't matter if the Laser Comb has been approved But regarding the ones you did provide. 1. Used a # of things. 2. Even others question the pics, as the amount of time seems to indicate the hair just growing longer. But at least he's just using minox. 3. As others are saying there- hair looks the same. Hardly something Dr. Feller and maybe even you were asking for re the laser devices. 4. This one is much better. But again, something else is being used- Nizoral. 5. Didn't even bother to look at the pics..but Nizoral was also used, again..and others are questioning them. 6. There are no pictures. 7. Minoxidil and Nizoral. A whole 2 months. Angles are different, etc(I could use that one on all of them I suppose...like Dr. Feller did) 8. "It looked like your vertex was beginning to thin on Day 1 but that situation seems to have been reversed (although your pics are wet and dry so it's hard to tell for sure)."...."i gotta say your hair looks good in my opinion your tempels are going back"...." just would like to know what is wrong with your hair even before your treatment...." But again..Propecia and Nizoral. 9.Minox and Propecia. Many also took other supplements. Again..where are the pictures of those that were in the trials for the FDA approval, and where are the pictures on the sites that sell such products(I keep repeating the latter since Dr. Feller was whining about the other doc not having them on his site, etc) So in closing...anyone can bring up questions about anyone's pictures, as can be seen in those threads. And btw..I do understand the difference between promotional pictures and patient pictures. Promotional pictures are of "patients"- you need to use your own judgement and common sense as to which are proof of anything, or are even legit. I see nothing wrong with most of the pictures at the Sunetics website or even the Hairmax one. You can quibble over how much regrowth etc there is, but as you can see from your own list- one can do the same thing there. I still can't get over Dr. Fellers post and responses here

Here are some before/after of another brand: Sunetics I reread your "request" and later on your comments about pictures from a company can be deceiving. You mentinoed Bosley. I could easily do the same with Dr. Feller, picture by picture. Maybe we should ask for before/after pictures of his patients years down the road. And then were more transplants/surgeries needed? Etc etc. There's no end. The Propecia and Minoxidil ones- who did those? The FDA or the companies? All of them involved in the trials- are all the pictures available, or just the best ones? I told you there's no end

As BeHappy stated..Dr. Fellers comments on register scanners etc was insane(my word). See my previous post where I posted what someone else said about the different type of laser being used..the time under such a laser..I would add actually "scanning" your scalp instead of scanning a package..etc. To now say Dr. Fellers comments were meant to be humerous..is..well..laughable. It was just another example of his arguments not being legitimate. Bill...Hairmax, for one, has a # of pictures. If you're going to question all of them, then there's no point in asking for them. I want to ask one..more..time- where are the ones for propecia and minoxidil? There are also a lot of pictures out there on the use of lasers for various skin disorders(it seems there has been questions here of the validity of lasers for ANY such treatment). Dr. Feller has not made any legitimate arguments against laser therapy. The only one out there is the no pictures claim, which isn't true. Not being able to respond to my asking where the pics are at the minoxidil and propecia selling sites doesn't help.

And if this hair institute was contacted about a money back policy what would they say? That is a crazy price regardless...

There are just way too many things out there one could try. I'll mention this one because it's quite new- I have no idea if it'll help your situation. It's Jan Marini's Age Intervention Revitalizing Conditioner. VERY expensive though. Internals..there's L'oreal's "Hair Mass". Some would say you can get the ingredients separately, cheaper. Haveron is a chinese herbal product. Biosil may help. Etc etc.

There's Alphastat, a astaxanthin/ saw palmetto blend "that has been shown in in-vitro studies to provide potent cellular-level protection for prostate tissues by inhibiting the activity of an enzyme known as 5-alpha reductase. This powerful combination delivers unprecedented protection for prostate tissues - far more than could ever be achieved with regular saw palmetto extracts. In fact, Alphastat has been shown in studies to exhibit 20% greater 5-alpha reductase inhibition than saw palmetto alone" As someone else mentioned..side effects can occur with something like this just as they do with drugs.

I'm really not looking for support. I think it is VERY unprofessional for someone like Dr. Feller to start up a thread here and start bragging about his interview/debate and trash another doctor etc etc. If that gets your support...ok....

Oh boo hoo. Now you're going to play victim. This after your attacks on the other doctor instead of just attacking LLLT. You're inability to refute what I'm saying, as well as your logic(as I'll show below) makes you seem like a "middle of nowhere" guy on the subject. Let's see..your own agenda would be to attack another doctor who is a COMPETITOR of yours. As for me being a newbie...I don't think so. I've been registered here since Feb 22 2005. I seem to recall this forum was updated..hence the starting over of the # of posts one has. Someone wanted me to share this with you: Your comment: "Why is it that grocery store check out clerks whose hands are exposed to laser light all day do not complain of excess hair growth on the hands or forearms? Why is it that people who work in laser printer factories or laboratories that use lasers all day have not reported unwanted hair growth? The obvious answer is that there is no such phenomenon." Somebody else with some common sense: "That's just really ridiculous on so many points -such as dosage, types of lasers, the AREA that the lasers are hitting (ummm... 1) no one said that lasers grow hair where hair doesn't exist, and 2) forearm hairs aren't genetically encoded to grow longer than an inch or so anyway, 3) they don't go dormant, and 4) they certainly aren't going to be re-invigorated when they are healthy in the first place). Ughh... I don't even need to go on. When one aspect of someone's argument is as flawed as that ??“doctor or not (lol...)- then we all need to keep in mind that all of his other statements could be equally as "colored" with flawed information... purposeful or not. ...And hey, why don't people that breathe the air in propecia manufacturing plants complain about unwanted hair growth?? That's making the same ridiculous, logically flawed type of argument that he was"

Actually many are getting their own little lasers and making their own devices. The FDA would not use words like "promote hair growth" if the product wasn't cleared for that.

Not only have I read the thread, I've read it twice. I haven't had the chance to listen to the radio broadcast but I look forward to it. *I* haven't bothered to buy the thing because *I* have never thought I'd be consistent with it because how one has to use it. A new one came out that is cordless etc, and seems more like something I'd use- so I still may get one. What I provided is not irrelevant to the discussion. You just want to say so to try to bury it and move on to something else. I have also read plenty of users in various forums giving the laser devices a thumbs up. Others say they got no results. I've also read the same for the other 2 FDA approved treatments, including a COMBINATION OF THE 2. Reread what I said about using such a thing, especially alone, should not leave you with the expectation that you're going to solve your hairloss problem. Hairmax is "cleared" for safety and EFFECTIVENESS. I'm not even a fan of that company btw. You know what, doc? I went to your website and if it weren't for the fact that you actually have to do a surgery to get the "results" your customers get, I'd say YOUR pictures would look questionable. And btw..there are just hundreds of photos of the Minox and Propecia users available to view at the minoxidil and propecia websites, aren't there.........(I should add....and at all the places that sell such products)

Ok...I'm not sure what to think here. On the one hand..a transplant doc trashing something like the laser can indeed be able to capitalize on it. Saying he could make money on them by selling them..if that's the only thing you can think of... I'm also surprised at the lack of confidence in the FDA approval. I feel the same way about minox and propecia..and many other drugs out there.....but still Then there's the issue of what you expect something like a laser device to do. Are you expecting major results? Like the other 2 FDA approved products are supposed to provide?(think sarcasm when reading that last sentence). Or are you wanting something additional to help in this fight. Many do not want to go the surgery route, for various reasons. One of the things about lasers that got my attention was their ability to "increase" SOD. You know..Superoxide Dismutase, as in cu peptides and other SOD mimetics found in Tricomin etc? If true, I'd rather spend a couple/few hundred dollars up front rather than keep spending money on topicals that do the same thing. And I realize that is not the only way each can work. The following is something I posted a long time ago, so some of the links are no longer legit: http://www.laserexchange.co.uk/intro...l_Changes.html a) Super Oxide Dismutase Acute inflammation -> superoxide free radicals S.O.D. + arachidonic acid -> prostaglandin E PGE - changes in nociceptor membrane potentials (increase in firing rate, increased vasodilation) SOD amounts increase significantly after LILT. - pain relief - resolve inflammation (Lombard et al, 1990; Urcuoli et al, 1991) http://www.iama.edu/LaserAcupuncture...cupuncture.htm "In vitro experimental evidence has demonstrated acceleration of collagen synthesis in fibroblast cultures due to acceleration of mRNA transcription rate of the collagen gene. Superoxide dismutase activity is increased (this decreases prostaglandins). This is postulated as one mechanism of pain and oedema reduction. Other effects are: inhibition of procollagen production in human skin keloid fibroblast cultures and stimulation of phagocytosis by macrophages, increased fibroblast proliferation, as well a wide variety of cellular responses." http://www.theralase.com/Lasertherapy.htm "The natural healing of a wound can be divided into 3 phases: the inflammation, the proliferation and the remodeling. LLLT (Low-Level Laser Therapy) assists in all 3 areas by increasing the fibroblasts (the building blocks of collagen, which is predominant in wound healing), speeding up angiogenesis which causes temporary vasodilation (diameter of the blood vessels increases) and by speeding up the reabsorption of a haematoma (swollen area). LLLT is also very useful for burns by stimulating the enzyme superoxide-dismutase, which inhibits the peroxidation of unsaturated fatty acids (burns)." And for the record..even though I posted that a # of years ago...I still have yet to buy or use a laser device.