thanatopsis_awry

PR,

Oh my....First:

I met with Dr. Dorin multiple times over the course of well over a year time span, starting with when I was taking 0 other hair remedies (e.g. propecia, rogaine, nizoral) and had hair loss that was in a relatively "young" state.

As for the Bosley e-mail -- WOW! First, the e-mail is pure **expletive** and a blatent, aggressive attempt by them to do all they can to retain your services and fill you with tawdry sales tactics and false confidence....

Honestly, and I don't blame them from a purely business perspective, I too would feel threatened by the spreading of information and the education of prospective patients if I was hawking a sub-standard service.

I can't speak for all (though I'd bet big $ this is true for most), but I 100% have zero affiliation, financial or otherwise, with *any* of the clinics on this website.

Dude, think about it: there are dozens of surgeons that come with a high recommendation on this website that various people on this site have chosen for their personal reasons.....its not like this site, or the people on it have some committment to worshipping X doctor for his (and our) X benefit...the only commitment this forum has is to staying on the vanguard of hair restoration, and supporting those doctors who are committed to giving the very best and have the utmost ETHICS!!! *NOTICE* -- Dr. Armani is not given full support, despite being very skilled, because of his ethics particularly with regard to the young.

The final, cheap ploy in that e-mail to give you falsehope is their promise of "TWO FREE SESSIONS!!!"...first of all, I beleive that while lasar therapy has been approved for SALE by the FDA, it is not proven to actually treat MPD successfully; regardless, it takes months and months of consistent use to achieve anything resembling results from all I understand.

So, two "free" sessions are a pure gimmick; I am sure that they will fill you with more hyperbole (STATE OF THE ART, LASER THERAPY!!!) and try to fill you with more *false-hope* in the effort that maybe they bleed you of even more money and get you to CONTINUE using the treatment.

Grrrr! Listen dude, at the end of the day its your call, but I implore you to run, not walk, away from Bosley....I'm saying this solely from the perspective of a purely objective, sympathetic, fellow young sufferer.

edit -- in case you noticed or where wondering about my sig and the mentioning of the "laser comb"....its not something which any of the Dr's I consulted with recommended, or something I have high hopes for in any way....if a doctor did hype it to me it would have raised a red flag. However, I got it as a gift from my parents and figure it can't hurt, and with consistent usage I might get lucky.

PRanger,

Dr. Dorin, as well as Dr. True are partners and indeed are both Coalition doctors -- based in NewYC. I haven't actually had an HT with Dr. Dorin, though I had one set....as well, I've had multiple consultations with him and his staff.

Two (final )things: I have been incredibly impressed by their operation, and would recommend them highly from my personal experience, what others have told me, and the work of theres that I have seen. I was as gung-ho, eager, and adamant about getting the biggest and best HT as quickly as humanly possible when I first met them and, thankfully, they respectfully refused my business. Their ethics, imo, are great, and they have a pretty conservative approach which I think works great when dealing with young guys.

I recently postponed the HT I was scheduled to have....its not that I am averse to young (I'm 21, btw) guys having HTs in the least; rather, the more I learn, self-reflect and get a better grasp on my personal hair loss I fine tune my "battleplan" that I will use to combat my hairloss from now until I die.

Getting HTs will probably be an integral part in your "battleplan" as well; and, when done right by the right doctor can reap the magnificent results. Make sure you find the right doctor for you to get you what you want and deserve!

I feel your pain dude, and understand how complicated things can seem; just make sure you get to the point where things don't seem so complicated and unknown and then you'll know your prolly' in a solid position to start taking serious action!

Well, undergoing the process of HTs is still an absolute priority for me and I fully intend to use them; but, since I joined this site and immersed myself with its knowledge and opinions I've decided to delay the HT I have had scheduled with True&Dorin!

I beleive three things basically have led to my decision:

1.) The forum helped me get a better grip and grasp of my hair loss by not feeling so helpless, doomed, and alone...I don't feel as pressed to take drastic, immediate action.

2.) I acknowledge that what I want is not always what is best in a given momemt; the prevailing thought from people whose opinions I respect is that it is usually best to stay on the propecia, rogaine, etc. for a long(er) time period, getting a better understanding of where one's hairloss is headed and stands. This is particularly true when you are young.

3.) Dermmatch and Toppik ...seriously, if I wasn't tipped off on these on this forum I have no idea if I'd have ever found out about them. They are flat out a great way to "get by" and bridge the time periods until you get an HT.

Objectivity, knowledge, and a personal examination of oneself is so so key.

Viva La Hair-Restoration-Info.Com

Well, undergoing the process of HTs is still an absolute priority for me and I fully intend to use them; but, since I joined this site and immersed myself with its knowledge and opinions I've decided to delay the HT I have had scheduled with True&Dorin!

I beleive three things basically have led to my decision:

1.) The forum helped me get a better grip and grasp of my hair loss by not feeling so helpless, doomed, and alone...I don't feel as pressed to take drastic, immediate action.

2.) I acknowledge that what I want is not always what is best in a given momemt; the prevailing thought from people whose opinions I respect is that it is usually best to stay on the propecia, rogaine, etc. for a long(er) time period, getting a better understanding of where one's hairloss is headed and stands. This is particularly true when you are young.

3.) Dermmatch and Toppik ...seriously, if I wasn't tipped off on these on this forum I have no idea if I'd have ever found out about them. They are flat out a great way to "get by" and bridge the time periods until you get an HT.

Objectivity, knowledge, and a personal examination of oneself is so so key.

Viva La Hair-Restoration-Info.Com

PowerRanger,

I think, generally speaking, the point thats trying to be made is this -- HTs are a very serious, life altering procedure that have a history (past, present, and most likely future) that is filled with stories that range from unsatisfactory to horrific! It is of the utmost importance that not only is your procedure itself performed by an expert doctor, but also one who happens to have your overall best interest in his mind and isn't merely trying to get you in, perform, make a buck, rise and repeat.....when you go to a place like Bosley you are making a fairly substantial gamble that the aforementioned will not be working in your favor.

The fact that you are so young creates an even murkier picture where it is even more important that a truly elite doctor is assessing your situation and has your best interest in mind and in check. At a place like Bosley, not only will you be gambling with whether or not you are viable and/or getting a proper diagnosis....but, even if you happen to be viable and get properly assessed it, it is no guarantee that the work done to you will be of a high caliber. With the doctors mentioned within this thread these doubts will be put to rest.

You mention that you want more girls; understandable, and I hear ya. But, the potential ramifications of getting an improper HT done will wreak havoc like you prolly' don't yet understand.

As well, as to why Bosley is in business? They don't break the law, and run a business based upon smoke and mirrors, lots of hype, and a revolving door of clientele.

Dr. Cohen is actually my dermatologist; good to hear that you walked away impressed! From all of my interactions with him he is a stand-up guy all around.

Best of luck with the results MWR...do you have any post-op pictures to show? Often the quality of the future, ultimate results can be well diagnosed based off of post-op pics!

PowerRanger,

At the very least, I'd implore you to do an online evaluation with a Coalition Doctor; you will get a thoroughly honest, and enlightened opinion which you can then act upon.

See what an elite doctor has to say with regard to your viability; depending on what they have to say (one thing may be that they would want you on propecia/rogaine for 6+months and then a further evaluation), come to a stronger conclusion as to whether or not you should be getting an HT now.

Imo, I wouldn't trust Bosley's evaluation in the least...let alone would I actually let them perform such a life-altering surgery on me!

Does it not just boil down to personal preference, and how strongly you weigh potential side effects, uncertain long-term consequences of drugs, and hair loss itself??

Instinctually 2 philosophies arise when it comes to getting on drugs like Propecia; some, like myself, have virtually zero apprehensions about being "forced" into getting on a drug that I must take indefinitely -- it doesn't bother me much and I firmly beleive that the juice is worth the squeeze, so to speak...at the same time, I have a friend, who, when approached with the notion of going on Propecia immediately was very cautious and felt put off by having to get on a drug that he would need to be putting into his system "forever".

I've experienced 0 noticeable "side effects" from being on Pro.

I would say to try your best to not get bogged down into the many maybes and what ifs and just see what happens with as clear a mind as possible -- if you notice a direct correlation from being on the Pro and your sex drive then cross that bridge when it comes.

Though, and someone can affirm or disagree with this, but I seem to remember reading that some "side effects" wane with continued usage.

So to shave or not to shave comes down to whether or not you want to sacrifice shaving your head (which some either can't due to work, or won't due to strong personal preference), as it relates to going into the HT under "ideal" conditions....not to say that shaving your head guarantees a "better" result than not shaving; but, all things being equal, would be nice to do.

I think most people who take the hair meds, as with most prescrip drugs, are aware of the side effects, but choose to take them because they place the drugs utility above said "side effects"; also, it is said that whatever unintended-effects may occur will diminish if you decide to stop taking the drugs.

I personaly disagree that "they do very little really"; sure, they don't manifest huge fields of newfound hair for you, but who knows how much worse things would be off the stabalizing drugs....moreover, that they help in preserving hair is of huge benefit when/if you look into an HT program.

Its true that its impossible to say if there will be very-long-term, unforseen consequences by taking the drugs....but thats just the nature of the beast in this instance, imo. I agree the drugs shouldn't be peddled as flawless miracles that should be exempt from critical examination; but, I think that as far as drugs go they are quite useful, and the side-effects are, as a whole, rather mild.

EDIT -- hair loss is a rough, tough situation no matter how you cut it; right now, it seems one basically has three options: wigs, drugs, HTs...and the drugs almost go hand in hand with getting a HT. not a whole lotta options or choice if you really place a premium on stopping and reversing your hair loss!

Sup dude,

I'm 21 as well and your hair looks quite similar to mine ~12 months ago; which (without you actually seeing my current follicular state) is a testament to how quickly a SNAFU can occur and how fast and quick the downfall can be! As others have said, start using Nizoral/Revita, and above all else use the Rogaine %5 religiously...I would also say to get on Propecia asafu**ingp...in but 6 months time it seemingly put a halt to my hair loss, and I've felt little to no "side effects".

Its great that you found this place when you have, and that your going to be attacking the problem so early on. I *really* regret not starting the propecia, etc.when I first started to realize my thinning hair.

In any event, sounds like you will be putting yourself in the best possible spot to attack hair loss as it comes -- which is all you can really do.

Losing your hair is always difficult. In your early-twenties even moreso, and can reach varying degrees of acute torture. I've given a fair amount of consideration to the debate, and feel that the best, general plan of attack is as follows (this is particularly to those in their early, mid 20's):

Obviously get on The Big Three -- particularly if you also have losses in the crown --, and gauge how you respond to the meds over 6+ months.

Find a highly reputable doctor and work out a long term plan that strikes a balance between getting you quick(er) results to help get you through the coming time, without seriously endangering your future. Be prepared, and committed, for potentially several HTs over the years.

You will be taking a very conservative approach, and as such the HT results will not individually bestow you with your Elvis Hair of youth; but they will give you appreciable results and be the foundation of your ultimate hair reclamation. Get Dermmatch, Toppik, etc., and, in combination with your HTs try to achieve results that you can live with over the next several years.

As the years go by, hope that between medical advances and more aggressive HTs you can achieve greater and greater end results. Always be acting in an effort to strike a balance between *not* sacrificing your youth, and *not* completely screwing your future.

***I firmly beleive that just as Armani is one extreme that carries undesireable consequences, so too does the other extreme that blankly cautions against HTs for the young....like Bezane alluded to, hair loss at very tender ages is excruciating day in day out, and should NOT be tolerated.....it is no way too live, and if certain, conservative ideals must be thrown to the wind so be it***

Again, I feel it is all about striking the right balance and finding a comfort zone that works for you. I am 21, scheduled for a HT 8/1 with True&Dorin; I am also considering postponing it for at least another 6 months...the reason being that I have yet to try out a combo of the Dermm/Toppik (which I should have either today or tomarrow). As things currently stand, I 100% would follow through with the HT; but, if the Dermmatch can give me enough where I feel that my hair loss won't be such a strain on the quality of my life I will wait longer.

An aggressive, comprehensive strategy in conjunction with elite doctors is the way to go, imo, and in the year 2007 a lot can be done that in the past could not.

the Hairmax Laser Comb has been no-strings-attached FDA approved,though, right? I remember reading an article about it in Time magazine and eventually got compelled to buy one. I beleive it got the approval as early as January of this year, but hopefully in time it will become a staple and The Big Three will become The Big Four!

I'm hoping that it will be of particular usefullness when I start using it post-HT.

in the coming days I'll be attempting to become the next poster-boy for dermmatch and toppik....but if things don't pan out, will give megathik a go.

I train & compete in (kick)boxing and grappling, and one of the primary issues I am going to really inquire about with True&Dorin is the "how long post-op till' working out"....it seems like there isn't a definitive answer out there, but I'm going to try to get a (conservative) approximation for the following:

walking; jogging; sprinting; light to medium weights; heavy weights; "normal" strength/conditioning routines; kickboxing; and finally, grappling and boxing/kickboxing sparring....I have a feeling that it could be a long, long time (3+months) before I'll be able to participate in some of the latter activities.

Unreal.

I have to say that finding the forums, educating myself, and realizing that "I'm not alone" has definitely helped considerably....MPB is pretty wretched; and being admittedly very sensitive in general and self-critical, going through my hair loss the past year has been brutal.

But with the help of the forum, and always making sure I make educated decisions in my best interest, I am commited and positive that I'll win the war!

Holy....this is just heinous! When you picture a "worst case scenario", and a true "butcher" this is it....*serious*, legal repercussions have to follow.

Its sickening and scary to think that there are actual doctors out there who are capable of this; even that BeverlyHills joint mentioned recently is just unethical at best to be hawking antiquated techniques as elite, let alone being the least bit honest about the critical drawbacks.

Terrible.....

I don't have the most refined eye at the mo' (plus the laptop I'm on has terrible clarity ), but it looks like your doctor used "ultra-refined FUT".

You explained your experience very well; my only question is how you came about choosing Dr. Pathomvanich -- I assume you have permanent residence in Thailand (?). Personally, I've often fantasized about moving to Thailand and if I were to ever move outside of the U.S. I think Thailand very well would be my destination!

Interesting usage of "the headband", I've never seen that used before.

Congrats, and GL!

Well done. The differences are really, really striking...!

Its a good point that how things look right after the HT are big indicators of the ultimate result.

Just gave a thorough reading of Armani's site for the first time, and I must say -- very, very tempting, but some questions, thoughts, and concerns....ultimately, we all (naturally) want maximum density; the lowest hairline; the quickest results; etc, etc.

Dr. Armani's website and literature aggressivly targets these primal wants density/hairlines/huge sessions...), particularly marketing towards youth...or people who simply want to attempt to regain their notion of youth. A few questions quickly came to mind, though: if everything that Armani markets is kosher, why aren't "top" Dr's following suit. From a shrewd financial perspective, wouldn't Dr's jump at the opportunity to market promises of ultra-packed density sessions, highly youthfull hairlines, vast donar sizes if it was at all possible and appropriate...? As far as I understand, technologically speaking, Dr. Armani doesn't use drastically special equipment that other Coalition Dr's don't, and isn't privvy to major information that others aren't.

At the same time, if Dr. Armani's grossly aggressive approach really can, and does, reap negative consequences, how come I have not seen or heard of any concrete examples...Again, I am pretty new to the hair-loss arena, so I may be missing huge, obvious chunks of info, but I speak from an untouched, objective curiosity. On the one hand, it would make little sense for other doctors not too offer the same approach of Armani if doable, and this raises a huge ? mark for me with regard to Armani's ethics; yet, I haven't seen any real life examples of wrongdoing via Armani's HTs....and the arguments against him seem to be made off of worst-case-scenario hypotheticals...

So is it all merely a question of: Do I want to be conservative and act as if the worst *will* come; and if not, how grave, and how likely, are the consequences...and, importantly, how do they compare to the prospects of getting "immediate" (an HT still takes time, of course) results of absolute, follicular satisfaction. I think age plays a very integral role in this hypothetical equation -- lets face it, losing your hair in your 20's carries greater weight (for many reasons) than losing it in your 40s, 50s,even your 30's....and so maybe Armani isn't "unethical", but rather is providing a genuine service to those in the most dire of places who are really just trying to make the most out of the already fleeting nature of youth, and re-capture what it means to be young...

<<< my (current)thoughts and questions concerning "The Armani Equation", which have been brewing for some time and I think is really a huge question for people considering a HT -- particularly if you are "young".

Just gave a thorough reading of Armani's site for the first time, and I must say -- very, very tempting, but some questions, thoughts, and concerns....ultimately, we all (naturally) want maximum density; the lowest hairline; the quickest results; etc, etc.

Dr. Armani's website and literature aggressivly targets these primal wants density/hairlines/huge sessions...), particularly marketing towards youth...or people who simply want to attempt to regain their notion of youth. A few questions quickly came to mind, though: if everything that Armani markets is kosher, why aren't "top" Dr's following suit. From a shrewd financial perspective, wouldn't Dr's jump at the opportunity to market promises of ultra-packed density sessions, highly youthfull hairlines, vast donar sizes if it was at all possible and appropriate...? As far as I understand, technologically speaking, Dr. Armani doesn't use drastically special equipment that other Coalition Dr's don't, and isn't privvy to major information that others aren't.

At the same time, if Dr. Armani's grossly aggressive approach really can, and does, reap negative consequences, how come I have not seen or heard of any concrete examples...Again, I am pretty new to the hair-loss arena, so I may be missing huge, obvious chunks of info, but I speak from an untouched, objective curiosity. On the one hand, it would make little sense for other doctors not too offer the same approach of Armani if doable, and this raises a huge ? mark for me with regard to Armani's ethics; yet, I haven't seen any real life examples of wrongdoing via Armani's HTs....and the arguments against him seem to be made off of worst-case-scenario hypotheticals...

So is it all merely a question of: Do I want to be conservative and act as if the worst *will* come; and if not, how grave, and how likely, are the consequences...and, importantly, how do they compare to the prospects of getting "immediate" (an HT still takes time, of course) results of absolute, follicular satisfaction. I think age plays a very integral role in this hypothetical equation -- lets face it, losing your hair in your 20's carries greater weight (for many reasons) than losing it in your 40s, 50s,even your 30's....and so maybe Armani isn't "unethical", but rather is providing a genuine service to those in the most dire of places who are really just trying to make the most out of the already fleeting nature of youth, and re-capture what it means to be young...

<<< my (current)thoughts and questions concerning "The Armani Equation", which have been brewing for some time and I think is really a huge question for people considering a HT -- particularly if you are "young".

Has anyone else found it to be painfully difficult to get family and/or friends to emphathize with your hair loss dilemma?

My entire family, as well as my friends, have "great" hair; by which I mean they all have pretty much the same, normal hair that they were born with and grew to know and love; when I try to talk with my parents about how deeply my hair loss affects me, and how it seeps into so many facets of my life its like I'm talking to a brick wall....I basically get cast as some overly dramatic narcissist..."ya, thats too bad, you'll just get over it and move on, its really not so bad".

I seriously wish I was just born bald so I wouldn't have to go through ~20 years of follicular fondess, "falling in love", and then suddenly find my image and aesthetic existence crumbling apart.

**ending vent**