sukh123

32 minutes ago, BananaMan84 said:

@Melvin- Moderator you can't seriously think this is anywhere near good enough for 5k grafts? The level of protection for this Dr is getting ridiculous now. Like myself and dozens of others across various forums, OP has used up a large amount of his available grafts for nothing but a slight improvement. Not to mention the time and money. Honestly astounds me he continues to be recommended.

It seems if the doctor is on the list of recommended surgeons,  they're immune to criticism which is biased and not good precedent for the forum. The defense of the results is comical at best and pathetic. 

42 minutes ago, HappyMan2021 said:

this is ridiculous. 95% of a HT's success or failure goes on in the operating room. 

also, randomly stating that you are a college athlete to try to establish authority on a scientific issue....it's having the opposite effect you are intending

15 minutes ago, stephcurry30 said:

Unreal result. Praying I get something similar!

You going bisanga

1 hour ago, harryforreal said:

I have plucked MANY hairs in an attempt to remove weird, unnatural hairs at the front of the hair line or conversely to get the hairs to grow back less thick and more soft and natural.

 

I literally have BAGS of plucked hairs labelled by month over multiple years so I could monitor changes to these hairs over time.

 

To be clear, I never plucked hairs before my HT.  Just was not happy with the "aesthetic" result and literally decided to take matters into my own hands.

 

 

That’s straight up weird ngl

13 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Again, can't help but feel how personal you guys are taking this topic. All because someone had the nerve to come here and say "Actually DHT has a lot of proven functions". Keep seething and coping. 

 

It’s main function after 25 for most people is making them lose their hair just like yourself which is why you got to get a transplant now and probably more. 

33 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Look I get it, this is a personal topic for you. And it really isn't for me. But just being honest your behavior seems pretty feminine. Maybe some DHT would be good for your mood? 

 

How mAny times are you going to recycle the feminine line lol to attack people who take fin. Its getting boring  ,can you not come up with any new punchlines . I think spending all this time researching dht has made you paranoid and tbh it’s getting weird now .

19 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

To be clear, I was simply bringing up the fact that in this thread Sukh said vast majority of men don't get sides on Fin, but in another thread he said 33% do. 33% is 1 out of every 3 so kind of contradictory statements. 

 

I was referring to this forum  with regards to that percentage where as the general population it’s less. This thread is going in circles now . If you want to take it , then take it . If you don’t , then don’t simple as that 

4 minutes ago, BaldV said:

Referring  to scalp

Oh well yes it can because as I talked about it above it. reduces sebum production, which can be counterproductive for some if they have already dry scalp. For some it works well because they have very oily skin . I’m not a expert but dry skin you want to avoid I would think  as it’s not optimum conditions for your hair.

Just now, Mike10 said:

Yep that can be a side of Fin for some, especially if you already have a tendancy for dry skin. Like with every medication that affects your hormones it can affet your skin condition 

Yeh it reduces sebum production , which is why for some it helps with acne . But your right if you have dry skin to begin with then it might make it dryer.

3 hours ago, BaldV said:

Anyone experienced that with fin?

Are you referring to face and body in terms of dry skin ?

4 minutes ago, Mike10 said:

I am talking dry skin here

Do you mean face and body skin , making it dryer? 

7 minutes ago, Joocee said:

Classic off-topic deflection when everything you've said is shown to be absolute drivel and incorrect. 

You do you buddy. 

Everything I said is true , vast majority don’t have side effects and function fine. Your obviously ignorant about that because either you got sides or didn’t want to take the drug’ out of fear of getting them and that fine . 

7 minutes ago, Joocee said:

Yes, DHT is a male sex hormone? One which you've substantially reduced?

It's not the effects on other levels you're looking for, its the cascade effects of DHT being reduced, just one of which is your test/estrogen coversion. Lowering of DHT is even effecting the hair foliciles on your head for god sake.

No offence, but you clearly have no idea what you're on about and have no education in these areas. This is why I don't think it's good to have an isolated forum of people giving their opinion on taking finasteride, who are both uneducated and place a great importance on their hair loss. Your opinion on the balance of taking the drug is skewed. 

With all due respect it’s seems you who are the one who is uneducated on this topic and  it’s why I have stabilised my hair loss and your having to spend thousands on a transplant that is no guarantee it will work . You clearly have an uneducated approach to your research and going by your spelling of affected as “effected” adds credence to that  . Why else do millions  of men who reduce their dht function perfectly, your going with the consensus that the minute you reduce your dht you going to cause yourself problems . That’s not the case , while no one’s wants to reduce their Dht myself included.It’s after weighing  up the pros and cons and doing in depth research I decided to take it and it’s worked out well. The fact is , this is the only gold standard treatment for hair loss and the only treatment to stop more hair loss , which a transplant will never do . Native density will never be replicated through a transplant just the illusion.

6 minutes ago, Joocee said:

The hormone effected/in question here is DHT, yet your defence of finasteride safety is you test for other unrelated markers and don't look at DHT. 

Its the equivalent to a drug inhibiting zinc absorption and you saying "well my vitamin A is ok". 

Just absurd, and this is why people should not be persuaded or influenced to make that decision by your experience. 

You said “altering your hormones” , if you did your research you would know fin as a result of reducing dht has an effect on your testosterone, estrogeon , lh and fsh which is why having them at optimum levels when your older can negate the reduction in dht. Which is why it’s important to get them tested . The drug is not for everyone and for most doesn’t cause sides , but the only way to know is to try it. If you get sides you can stop it . But you have to live with the fact you will keep balding and advance quicker to higher norwoods . No one wants to have a hair transplant which is far from certain it’s going to work and also neglecting the fact if you keep losing hair you need to keep getting more and donor is finite  and might not be able to support that

37 minutes ago, Joocee said:

I'm not downplaying the negatives of balding. I've just paid for a hair transplant due to those negatives, I fully understand them. 

I'm saying you need to understand that altering your hormones substantially is a significant decision to make and I think it's being made lightly in the case of finasteride.

There's many posts in this thread downplaying the potential negatives and incidence of such. 

Ultimately it's for each person to decide. You say the side effect of not taking the drug is worse, that's how you evaluate the importance of hair loss in your life, which is your personal decision and that's fine.

I just dont think others should be persuaded or influenced to make the same decision, by posts such as: "it's just 1 pill a day mate, I only have watery semen". This place is already a narrowed down section of society who place enough importance on hair to consider surgery. I think it's a bad thing to effectively have an echo chamber of people promoting use of hormone changing drugs.

 

“Substantially” , have you ever had your bloods taken prior or during fin ? I been taking it for a year and albeit my dht which I don’t even bother to test because I know it’s reduced, my hormonal markers are all similar to , prior starting fin. Infact my testosterone increased slightly compared to my baseline. And I do these tests every three months

1 hour ago, Joocee said:

It's strange to read through this thread. There seems to be an almost cultist psychology among those who are taking the drug.

Whether that's to appease their own subconscious anxiety with regards to taking it and the potential effects, or to persuade others to join them to normalise and share that burden with them, as people feel more comfortable if others are in the same boat, who knows.

As someone in the bio field of study, I certainly would not put your faith in pharmaceutical companies to look after your health, it's a business. I still remember a professor telling me years ago, that if we went onto PhD study, we would never trust anyone again, due to critically evaluating clinical studies/research and the things which go on which violate many ethical/moral codes. Just because trials etc have been done does not mean you will not experience substantial negative outcomes.

Moreover, there are ALWAYS side effects. If you make any change to your biology, whether that be upregulation, inhibition of a pathway/enzyme/protein etc, there is always a cascade of knock on effects. 

The only debate is whether the balance of those effects is positive enough for you to take the drug. Does potentially keeping your hair outweigh the potential negatives. These negatives should not be downplayed since your hormones are absolutely paramount to your biology, substantially reducing DHT is not something you should consider lightly.

It's quite shocking to see how flippant people are about taking finasteride. Would they feel the same about altering DHT in the other direction by injecting anabolics for example? Does the method of adminstration, a simple tablet as opposed to injection, give an impression of less significance of what you're doing? Possibly. 

Finasteride doesn’t work for everyone for some it’s a bad decision for others it’s great and stops hair loss . For me it worked out well and so I look at it from a postive perspective . If I had sides ofcourse I would look at it different, that’s just the nature of life. What will I say is majority don’t have side and tolerate it well.

I'll is honest and not sugarcoat this, but this is a poor result and lousy yield. For 5k grafts, you should get way better density. Now obviously, sometimes, even if everything is done right, a person's biology may mean a hair transplant does not work. I would have waited it out and gone to bisanga, but hindsight is great. 

8 minutes ago, Mike10 said:

I guess the jury for topical Finansteride is still out there

I think from the studies done you can say it’s as effective . What’s unclear is how much of a difference it makes to serum dht levels to oral. From studies a concentration of 0.025 was found to reduce it by 25 percent and scalp by 50 percent. Obviously   There is like 20 percent less reduction for scalp than higher concentration’s and oral but less loss of dht serum.  Some guys even with this little reduction will still have a non functioning penis 

4 minutes ago, LookMaxx said:

This guy has been on minoxidil since 19, now 25. Used finasteride for 1.5 years. You do the math. 

His hair follicles are damaged and minoxidil has kept them alive but his real Norwood could be 5 or 6 since he just started using finasteride a year ago. This is why he’s noticing his hairs thinning because those hairs are minoxidil hairs and going away. 
 

Minox should never be used alone to maintain, it’s does nothing for maintaining except give an illusion and a few good years but the moment you stop minox, those hairs disappear along with the rest that are damaged

I don’t what your talking about, it doesn’t make sense. Your blaming his hair thinning on minxodil lol. He just not a responder to dht blockers it’s seems .Being on a dht blocker for two years in particular dut should of stabilised it  .Tbh I cant really make a judgment nor can anyone as we don’t have comparison pictures. 

4 minutes ago, LookMaxx said:

Just my 2 cents

I have gone through such horrible loss in my life several times, when I was in my late teens I was suicidal because I couldn’t bear the overwhelming loss. I am a Muslim and in Islam it is forbidden to commit suicide so I couldn’t go through with it, I became religious and the realisation that this world isn’t everything saved me, I started to feel better. When I look back on that time, few themes become apparent to me. I was highly irrational, emotional and in a panicked mind feeling like my world is over and things will not get better, it continued through weeks. I don’t even recall sex being on my mind at the time at all and I was a healthy teenager at the time. I have no doubt if not for Islam, I would’ve ended my life then because there was no other barrier to it and I felt hopeless. 

 

People who commit suicide don’t reach that point suddenly. In that horrible horrible state of mind, nobody feels horny or sexy, sorry to be blunt here but many people get ED while with a beautiful woman solely from performance anxiety, imagine someone in a bad state of mind panicked. I want to explain more but it feels vulgar, look it’s not a dead meat or mechanical machine, it’s directly connected to the brain and for pleasure. When you’re in agony, it’s not going to work. 

The thing with PFS is physically everything is OK with them but it’s the mind. Unfortunately, they DO experience it. The solution is for them to stop imagining it and there’s no drug that can make you do that. How do you make a drug addict stop smoking? You can NOT unless he wants to.

People in PFS are in a vicious negative cycle, “my erections are weak” etc etc it’s a vicious panicked ugly mode. I don’t think anyone else can even understand how it is unless you go through it yourself and I unfortunately have experienced it many years ago.

Our minds are really scary things. PFS is a psychological phenomenon and not physical, this is why every research they do the physical hormonal parameters are fine. 

“But many people get ED while with a beautiful woman solely from performance anxiety” . Speak for yourself son lol

9 minutes ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

sorry but this thread is slowly turning into annecdotal evidence („someone mentioned something“, news report about suicide and what else not)

and all of a sudden we swifting (without mentioning it directly) from 1-2% sideeffect rate to basically "100% will get severe side effects“..

 

this is called availability  heuristic:

———-

„Which job is more dangerous—being a police officer or a logger? While high profile police shootings might lead to you think that cops have the most dangerous job, statistics actually show that loggers are more likely to die on the job than cops.

 

When it comes to making this type of judgment about relative risk or danger, our brains rely on a number of different strategies to make quick decisions. This illustrates what is known as the availability heuristic, a mental shortcut that helps you make fast, but sometimes incorrect, assessments.

 

There are all kinds of mental shortcuts, but a common one involves relying on information that comes to mind quickly. This is known as "availability." If you can quickly think of multiple examples of something happening—such as police shootings—you will believe that it is more common.““

https://www.verywellmind.com/availability-heuristic-2794824

———-

this how all debates go. and hence there is no point really. i dont even want to know how many people got scared of from finasteride without trying because they read some horror stories on the internet. people who might wouldnt have experienced any sideeffects.

 

what i also find unethical is to tell people that they can get a transplant without finasteride with no problem, when its really not the case. the truth is that many people shouldnt get a transplant without finasteride. this should be mentioned. it also should be mentioned that not everyone will look like jason statham bald. that baldness can affect love life, self confidence and various other aspects of life in a negative way. im also very sure that baldness alone can lead to depression, hell now that we are at annecdotes already it even can lead to suicide..https://m.timesofindia.com/city/madurai/techie-commits-suicide-in-madurai-due-to-hair-fall-problem/amp_articleshow/62325039.cms

this all should be presented and then everyone can make his own decision based on that.

 

You can get a transplant without finasteride though. But the problem You have is that a hair transplant is not a given and donor is finite . So if this doesn’t go well , you need to keep going into your finite donor which may run out before having adequate density . Which is why meds are important to retain as much native hair to lessen the grafts needed and so more can be banked for future needs.

14 minutes ago, hairman22 said:

My body fat is very low & I have always worked out. Dont drink smoke or eat any junk food ever.

Still got sides after 2 years & I didnt believe in PFS before hand. Now many people will be fine & I agree about blood work before hand.

But i would say people willing to take Propecia are in better shape in most cases than the average public

Bicer,Pitella,Zarev,Saidi are 4 that I know who dont prescribe propecia. Zarev does topically in some patients

I’m just going by the doctors I’ve consulted with. I can’t speak about the others .  But the ones I did speak to like bisanga and de Freitas are arguably in the top 5 best transplant surgeons in the world in my opinion, so I take what they say with more credence . Both advocate oral minxodil to. Yes as I said it’s more likely you will have a healthier hormonal profile if you work out and maintain Lower body fat. But that’s not a given, it’s why blood testing is so important to manager your markers , and it’s why I do it every three Months while on the drug. The vast majority don’t do this, and it gives me more peace of mind, Knowing the markers that fin affects are all normal to continue taking the drug. 

2 hours ago, hairman22 said:

I think we have slowly saw more Hair transplants doctors not recommend propecia

That is damning really because ideally it is needed to maintain hair

Topical is worth a try. Oral I would be every careful of. I took it 2 years no issues. Then permanent sexual side affects which will never return to 100%. Now i am ok now with being 70% now but i do wonder what would it be like to be back to what I was. I did have some insomnia too but very mild. Was ok otherwise.

Dr Saifi said years ago many of his patients had side affects & he didnr recommend it. Any time i mentioned it to someone they also mentioned someone who had bad side affects.

Which doctors lol, all the ones I’ve consulted with including reddy, bisAnga and Freitas all told me within the first few minutes “ you need to get on finasteride if your not already” . Alot of the guys I know who don’t have problems with fin are healthy and maintain low body fat , now I’m not saying that is a pre cursor to not getting sides but look at the guy mazab ont this forum as a anecdote. He is 50, maintains low body fat and has good muscle tone and a good diet and had no problem for 25 years .  A lot of the YouTubers who are fitness related all take it and have no problems too. The west in particular the uk and USA have poor health and big obesity problem . People need to start taking care of themselves . Most people’s hormones are probably out of whack before even starting fin , and is again why I advocate doing a whole hormonal blood panel before hoping on . The drug is not for everyone but if you care so much about your hair health, then  I would also be as focussed on overall health as hair is just one part

12 minutes ago, LookMaxx said:

Minoxidil doesn’t stabilise hairloss, it only keeps them up above the skin while DHT does the damage below to the follicles. If you want to see where your hairs actually are at, stop minoxidil. The hairs that are left are what you have actually, the rest are minoxdil regrowth.

Your crazy regime is nothing more than just a waste of money and exposing yourself to unnecessary sides. Finasteride 1mg daily is more than enough. Dutasteride alone nukes your DHT and T and has a realllyyyy long half life. Why would you combine them both? 

Your hairs appear to be thinning because they are probably minoxidil hairs finally going away. Finasteride doesn’t keep minoxidil hairs. This is what exactly what happens on Minoxidil, the hairs don’t stay up forever and slowly goes away I imagine when the damage becomes too severe that even Minox can’t bring them up. 

You should either use dutasteride alone or finasteride alone with Minoxidil. If the thinning hairs bother you, stop minoxidil to see what Norwood you actually are at then you will notice your hairs not thinning anymore due to finasteride keeping your alive follicles alive.

This is why I don’t like Minoxidil and didn’t use it. It masks your baldness and do nothing to stop the damage, finasteride actually stops the damage. 

 

You absolutely must go with the transplant because the surgeon you chose is great and you will not get appt so soon again, finasteride isn’t going to give you regrowth and minoxidil hairs will disappear as you’re finding out. You will have to get a transplant in future anyway. 

 

Your wrong on minoxidil is works a different way to finasteride. Finasteride works to stop or stabile hair loss and deal with the root cause , while minxodil acts a growth antagonist. Which is Why the combination is better to use than just one. Once I noticed my hair loss stabilised I then added minxodil which helped with some regrowth 

Depends on your hair loss tbh if you still have a lot of native hair then maybe it’s not best to procede , as you don’t know the progression of your hair loss. Pictures would help if you could post them