1966kph

Blake.

As i asked why do the links i posted work then they dont?

I admit i am not very tech savvy so if someone could please explain this to me obviously i would see things from a totally different prospective.

I hope that people reading would understand how i came to this conclusion.

I believe myself to be a person of strong moral character and just as publicly as i have accused you Blake i will just as publicly issue a unreserved apology as i think that is only right and fair

Is that fair enough Blake?.

So you're accusing me of moving the links even though I said it didn't work when I tried it last night, I said I didn't touch them, and showed you proof it was already in the archive before you pasted the link? Wow.

 

The screenshots you posted show Charly's posting history. This would show content that was posted in archived threads that could no longer be accessed.

 

The fact that you don't believe me after all the interactions we've had over the past year or so and think this is all part of some conspiracy is astounding.

Why did the links change?

Why do both links no longer work?

Is one trying to make out this just happens?

Were did i get my screen shots from?

Smoke and mirrors?

I smell something fishy.

Does anybody else smell that?

The top of the three links works now ive just tried it.

I think this is what you call being caught bang to rights.

I post a link to prove my point and the link all of a sudden no longer works even though i tried it.

These are the two links and the first one i posted changed within minutes of it being posted.

Blake this really is ridiculous and i think a explanation is due for the community.

Coincidence i offer proof to argue against what you said and this happens i think not.

This is what i call damning evidence that there is clearly under hand work at play and proof that this clinic

has not been treated fairly and without bias.

Why would you do this?

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/search.php?searchid=1555982

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/search.php?searchid=1556582

Yes you were the one working the forum blake you were also the one arguing this clinic had never been attacked, You were the one i showed this evidence to of a attacker which you chose to ignore,

Then i post a link copied off this site which i tried myself numerous times to make sure it was working and it was.

Coincidence that a link changes within minutes of posting in a argument to show evidence arguing to the contrary of what a moderator is saying.

There is no coincidence here and anyone reading through the last few pages will judge themselves what has happened here.

This is what i call clear evidence theres no coincidence the link got changed minutes after it was posted, Who by i think again we can all see the evidence and make up our own minds.

There was no need for all this arguing that has gone on for months and i personally think your bias against this clinic and this type of clinic model has been exposed.

Plead innocence but i think a jury would convict you unanimously on this evidence.

Rather than deny and say your innocent please explain why you felt it imperative to act in such a way.

To deny forum members access to the evidence that clearly showed this clinic was attacked and proving the statement you said [ i kinda cannot see that this clinic was ever attacked ] was wrong.

As with a lot of this its totally unnecessary behavior which the community can see is doing nothing but harm here.

Please try and stop dictating what this community should or should not be reading or privy to whether by altering links or other forms of censorship.

Please let this community talk freely for the good of all hair loss sufferers after all this is meant to be by patients for patients and at the moment this is definitely not the case.

Have a nice day everyone..

66,

 

The link didn't work last night when I tried it. I'm the only one working the forums this weekend, and I didn't move it.

 

You're missing the point with Charly. I'm not denying that he wasn't a fan. That wasn't the controversy. We were told he was a sham hired by competitors to smear the clinic. We checked all this out and spoke with the party he was accused of promoting. We found nothing.

Why has HTN taken these actions and if this is meant to be a fair and unbiased community this clearly shows it is not or maybe its just one moderator that has gone rogue.

I think this comunity deserves a full explanation of its censorship policy against this clinic but these actions clearly show that there is a very deep rooted bias against this clinic.

Is my exposing this going to lead to me being banned?

Should it lead to me being banned?

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/175105-cost-fue-increasing-decreasing-15.html

Have a good day everyone.

The top of the three links works now ive just tried it.

I think this is what you call being caught bang to rights.

I post a link to prove my point and the link all of a sudden no longer works even though i tried it.

These are the two links and the first one i posted changed within minutes of it being posted.

Blake this really is ridiculous and i think a explanation is due for the community.

Coincidence i offer proof to argue against what you said and this happens i think not.

This is what i call damning evidence that there is clearly under hand work at play and proof that this clinic

has not been treated fairly and without bias.

Why would you do this?

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/search.php?searchid=1555982

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/search.php?searchid=1556582

The link has been removed by moderators - I wonder why !!!

Here is a link again but if this does not work for some strange reason below is the screen shot of charlyboys post history to prove that im not just blowing smoke.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/search.php?searchid=1556582

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/attachment.php?attachmentid=76373&stc=1&d=1427026044

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/attachment.php?attachmentid=76374&stc=1&d=1427026044

Why did the link work perfectly last night and i tried it numerous times yet today the link seems to not work?

Have a good day everyone

Nice result but that amount of grafts for that amount of loss it should be.

I would of been happy with his pre op hair.

Have a good day

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/search.php?searchid=1555982

Read through it please it and again this is clearly attacking said clinic this is undeniable or so I think any way.

Enough of this petty squabbling.

Blake do you think the price of fue is rising or falling? What about in the US ?

Do you think the competitors abroad with their lower prices will force the US fue practicioners to lower their prices?

I believe it will otherwise their custom is going to seriously start drying up.

Have a good evening.

With respect blake you said that you had lots of people private message you saying that something should be done because of the chaos is this correct? This was after the bans had been implemented is this correct?Did I not just ask you to show me this with links to the posts that continued to cause unrest on the forum which I believed had calmed?

Are you going to ignore my request for the imformation you claim was happening?

You just ignored the evidence thats in black and white in each and every one of Charliboys threads as being of a attacking nature to this clinic.I'm presuming your still sticking to your guns that this clinic was never attacked lol.

The reason why there has been chaos on this forum is not because I or brit were the only ones thinking this clinic was being attacked but just about every patient that started a thread who had been to this clinic felt this way.

Egg on ones face springs to mind here blake.

I hope the censorship stops or at least does not escalate further and this thread that started so well can get back on track.

Again have a nice evening.

66,

 

I don't think I'm the one ignoring things here. I'm sorry, but we choose facts over feelings when investigating complaints. And I think the community will be ok, but thank you for the concern. I've explained the "delay" to you. And anyone who needs to see continued controversy and disruptive behavior after the rep and duplicate IP address profiles were deleted needs to look no further than this thread itself.

 

We regret the need to censor, but it became necessary for the good of the community and members who come here looking for help, not endless bickering. Our decision is final. I hope I've sufficiently explained why we made this tough decision. I also hope most will understand why we made it.

 

Thanks.

Blake please.

Was charlyboy a fan of this clinic?

Were each and everyone of his posts about this clinic?

Did he disappear and not post again after being told by mikrofue?

Has he posted since.

All clear evidence which you are choosing to ignore rather than hold your hand up and say yes I was wrong this account holder set out with no other intent than to attack this clinic.

You can dress it up any way you want but your starting to look foolish in ignoring and adamantly refusing to take the facts as clear evidence to prove what you say is inaccurate.The evidence of charlyboy being a attacker is in each and everyone of his posts in black and white. Really this is obsurd.

Once again I reiterate that all this censorship and your bias against this clinic is causing nothing but harm to this community and the many satisfied patients of this clinic.

Again I ask politely and respectfully to stop with this vendetta of prolonged and increasing censorship.

Leave things as they are there is and never was any need to impose this censorship.

Please link me to the posts that supposedly continued to cause unrest once mikrofue, gravedigger, fred ect ect were banned.

Evidence for the forum to cast their eyes on please blake.

I cannot think of any it all seemed just about perfectly fine until this censorship started.

Have a good evening

With respect blake you not finding any condemning evidence is irelevent.

You said you do not believe the clinic was being attacked,Correct?

I give you just one clear example of a account were every single post was aimed at this clinic and you choose to ignore it and reiterate what you have already said.

I asked you to check out the post history of charlyboy to prove my point rather than say you could not find any evidence please look at his history he was clearly a attacker.

Either check out the evidence provided or refrain from making statements that are clearly not accurate and misleading to readers.

I believe you did not find any evidence of IPS and such thats not the point.

Have a good evening

66,

 

I'm sorry that you don't believe me, but we investigated this member and found nothing. Again, these are the objective facts. All I can do is present them. If you choose to reject these facts, there isn't much more I can say.

I agree hairware.

This is why research is so important as is all possible clinics patients being allowed to show their story without censorship as its for the good of all that the imformation be available.

Why would someone pay far more in the states when they could go to the best in Lorenzo for instance? Traveling is one major factor being out of ones own country and the world being a dangerous place at times all are factored into the decision IMO.

Have a good evening

I would venture to say that if one received 7000 grafts from Dr. Lorenzo the result would be that of a natural appearing full head of hair that no one other than an expert could ever detect was a HT. The same amount of grafts from an elite clinic in NA performing FUE would run between 50,000-70,000USD. Those who feel that either option is beyond what they would be willing or able to spend and opt to travel to a third world country for a much cheaper procedure performed primarily or entirely by unknown technicians are in essence willing to take more risk that their result may have lower yield, less aesthetic appeal, or depletion of ones donor hair without achieving their desired goal. Much like buying a used car or winning an auction for an expensive item on eBay, some will be quite satisfied with their decision to spend less and others will be disappointed that what they thought to be a bargain did not turn out that way.

Blake you just said you kinda believed the clinic was not being attacked. I just told you to

look at the post history of Charlyboy with each and every one of his dozen or so posts aimed at the clinic but no he was not a attacker. Please come on!

He gets warned off by mikrofue and you tottaly mid interpreted it as though mikrofue was treating the forum.

Charliboy got the message and disappeared and has not posted since.

Really this is so unfair and biased.

And with regard to me agreeing with your explanations I did but then there is continued harassment by deleting members threads and altering patients signatures.

These actions have yet again inflamed this situation the total opposite of its intention so please stop it have we not suffered enough?

Have good evening

66,

 

Received a complaint about the member. Looked into it, checked IP addresses, and spoke with another person accused of being in cahoots with Charly. Found nothing.

One example charlyboy please look up his post history then come back with a judgement.

Brit,

 

I do kinda refuse to believe people were maliciously attacking the clinic because we followed up on EVERY single one of these complaints and found nothing.

 

And I do wish we could all share openly, but after repeated attempts to allow this open discussion failed, we had no choice but to restore order. We don't want to prevent any member from sharing their experience, but we can't allow this discussion to trample our rules and turn all discussions into battles.

 

We also thought it was a language barrier for quite some time. However, it eventually became abundantly clear that it was not.

Hello delancey.

So for 7000 grafts at those rates its 22500 euro.

A lot of money that as I've said I would not be prepared to spend that much on myself but I would never condemn anyone else for doing so.

As I say in a vote for top fue doc he would probably be voted number one and IMO his crown work is unparalleled. With the current weak euro when we are talking these figures its the ideal time to employ his services.

There are some very good drs out there at very reasonable rates thats for sure but to cover a 4 inch by 8 inch piece of skin with hair I was never going to have my family go without far more important things.

I built a extension a garage,a shed and block paved a 90 square metre driveway for less than I would have paid to address my hair loss at Lorenzos prices.

I just could not justify to myself never mind to my wife and children. Yeh I can see it now- kids you cannot have a playroom because daddies so desperate to have hair on top of his head.

Have a good weekend all.

I hear what your saying about the day.

Its a big day in ones life just like any big day we want it to go as smoothly as possible.

Its a bit of a tiring day for sure even though we just lie there I think its maybe down to nervous energy and a adrenaline dump but maybe I was just knackered with being awake for about 28 hours before I got on the bed for surgery!

Oh well its all done now we await to see if all our efforts and expense was worth it.

Have a good weekend

If right was right dr Karadeniz I think you should reimburse the difference between what Roscoe paid and what he would have paid if you had given him one less graft minus the price you would charge for the single graft. That seems fair to me and call me a troll or whatever you like which also does you no favours because most people in Roscoes position would agree with what I have said to be fair.

How much did that one graft end up costing you Roscoe?

Have you a PayPal account if so there you go dr Karadeniz do the right thing.

Have a good day.

So do you agree or disagree pup with the continued harrasment and censorship which the admin continues to escalate on us. The forum was quiet so you ask yourself what purpose is it serving.

And blake if you would be so kind I had a response to your earlier post pulled for moderation there was nothing therein to cause offence. Please will you check it out? Thank you

Pup you just the same as anyone is entitled to go were ever you choose whether it be a tech clinic or a doc that does 100% of the ht and this I s the point.

All information should be available. We way it all up and we make our choice it might not be the choice you or I would make its individual choice.

Its fact a awful lot of people are choosing to go to Turkey or europe you dont need to agree with their choice but we should all wish them success.

We should allow them to tell their story free of censorship.

We have nothing to do with the clinic but are becoming victims in all of this its wrong and I think a lot of people would agree.

You have a good weekend.

Why is it dr that when anyone says anything that you deem to be negative about you find it nessary to start calling them names?

Roscoe is perfectly entitled to tell what has transpired and we are all perfectly entitled to comment on what he has told us.

Theres no conspirancy if he was happy with all you have provided he would have said so.

I think his biggest issue has been to do with your pricing and transport and hotel all of which would have probably been handled better at exactly the same price if the agency had handled it.

In regard to pricing I believe the is scope for change and if you look at it this way- what would his price of been if you had give him just one less graft? You gave him the least possible number to fall within a higher price bracket.

I think these were his biggest issues and rightly so I think.

As I said earlier your practice is somewhat in its infancy so allowances should be made and as I also said its results that matter and as long as he's happy in this regard all this will be forgotten about.

I think as a recommended doctor here you really need to stop taking things to heart so much when people say things you don't agree with and stop insulting people who comment.

You have a nice weekend.

Rossco123,

 

I have tried to answer your questions many times and to find out where your dissatisfaction comes from, but it seems I have not succeeded. Looking at what youı have been saying I see that your complaints are concentrated mainly at two points; the graft number and the hotel. I would like to clarify these issues publicly here.

 

1. The pricing at that time was fixed for 2000-2999 grafts and the financial agreement made. We did exactly 2000 grafts, so the graft number was done according to the agreement and our company does not owe you anything for that. Whether some prefer the per graft pricing or the pricing for graft intervals is another discussion. I did mention to you in an email that you may need 2500 grafts, but this was nothing to overrule the financial agreement. It was an estimation of graft number that I decided to lower after examining you closely, as you did not need more than 2000. If I had decided that you needed 2999, I would have done it with no extra charge. Besides, you did not mention at the time of surgery that you wanted 2500 grafts or else you would complain. If you had mentioned me your concern, I would have easily extracted 500 more grafts, handed them to you and asked you what you intended to do with them. It would have taken me at most another hours work. So, I don't see why you suddenly appeared on the forum, complaining about the graft number when it was too late to do anything about this.

 

2. I had over 200 international patients staying at the hotel you stayed at without significant complaint. At least half of these patients were from the UK. I am aware that this is just a bed and breakfast hotel intended for an all-inclusive hair transplant package that kept extra costs at minimum. I did upgrade my patients to a 5-star hotel when patients asked for it and were prepared to pay the extra cost. In fact, after increasing our package price slightly it has been possible to include the 5-star hotel with no extra cost, but your package price was when it was cheaper. You mentioned to me the day of surgery that you had a problem with getting breakfast, so I told my nurses to serve breakfast at the clinic and they did so. If you had told me you encountered the same problem the day after surgery, I would have invited you to the clinic to serve breakfast once more, or told the nurse to serve you breakfast when you came for a wash. After you insisted that you did not get the breakfast you deserved and made a really big fuss about it, I had to ironically offer you a 10 Euro refund for the missing breakfast as this is the actual cost of the breakfast. The offer was not intended to be insulting, but was the only offer I could do after you complaining so much about it. When you sounded much more communicative on emails, I offered you a free night at the 5-star hotel for anytime you came to Turkey, as a gesture, but it seems my offer has worked the opposite way. Please note that this offer was given just out of good will, not because I thought we owed you anything.

 

Finally, it has recently been obvious that the 'Turkish technician clinics trolls' are aggressively active on the forum in trying to devaluate recommended surgeons on the forum. Representatives of these clinics are using every chance to insult surgeons that do serious work. Complaining patients are an excellent opportunity for them to damage surgeons reputations by provoking destructive discussions. I have even been accused of using technicians for graft extractions while being the only recommended Turkish surgeon that does all graft extractions. Members should be aware on what is really going on.

I believe and correct if I'm wrong someone but his prices have dropped since he starting having techs do extractions.

In the scheme of things were cost is a issue he is still quite expensive but his results are top tier so if one can afford him and have no issues with parting with that much money thats great.

But what would it cost to go to him for a higher norwood requiring say 7000 grafts?

Have a good day.

Without a doubt, the cost of FUE is decreasing in Europe. Many European surgeons will charge a discounted rate for the second surgery. For example, Dr. Lorenzo charges (correct me if I'm wrong):

 

6 x 1000 = 6000

4 x 1000 = 4000

2.5 per graft thereafter.

 

Therefore, the second surgery is charged at 2.5 euros per graft. This makes FUE very competitive and in some cases cheaper than strip in the U.S. and Canada.

 

Have a good day!

Top left hand corner -search- find community members--- find the name click on it to view profile.

Have good day.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/CAMPBELL/

Or rather here it is for you mate.

Congrats Cali and the best of luck.

I presume this Fut ?

Have a nice day

Seems to be a conserted on going effort to remove this clinic from veiws how this serves the community I feel needs explaining to the members and lurkers.

It says it is by patients for patients are the patients in question Pat,Bill,and David as it really is starting to seem as though we have no say in the actions that are thrust upon us.

A public explanation for this on going persecution of patients sharing their results for the benefit of others in required I think.

Its not fair on innocent people that these actions are turning into victims.

Transparency before the community please.

Theres no need for this continued harassment the forum is quiet and free from turmoil theres just no justification for this.

Is this post going to just be deleted and me banned?

Is this the intention ?

Fair play this isn't cricket.

Who apart from the moderators think this is a fair way to treat members just because we have been to this clinic.

Have a good day

Amazing, every surgeon and clinic is allowed to be mentioned except ----- Klinik, not even posts from their clients... weird as hell don't you think...? If we mention the name we may be banned, I can only think of one TRUE reason ----- Klinik is banned from being mentioned is because it is a direct threat to all other clinics, surgeons and competition... I have written again to moderators expressing my disgust about this, but I am informed that once again the ----- klinik is not to be mentioned, if this is not a fantastic promotion for the klinik I don't know what is. This Klinik must have everyone runnign scared, and there are two reasons, maybe three, 1. Quality, 2. Price, 3. Throughput of patients, whilst the surgeons performing their own work directly have limited throughput.

 

Clearly transparency is not here on this forum. I'm damn annoyed... at the covert injustice and unfairness.

 

Ive just realized my signature has been hi-jacked by the moderators and my kliniks name has been removed... This is DUGUSTING... you cheating moderators

I really like demirsoys work and would really like to see more of it.

Everything I've seen from him is top notch so here's hoping your another example of his capabilities.

Have a good day.

How long after the ht did you start the foam?

Its just used more as a kick start for growth and maybe thats why you exploded in pimples as they are also a sign of hair breaking out.

I am going back on the foam when I reach a month post op if I feel the recipient area is fully healed and capable of tolerating it without irritation.

Have a good weekend.