Z--

Work looks immaculately clean and it's great you had a surgeon who spent a good deal of time planning; no doubt this will be a factor in getting you a result that you deserve. Wishing you luck in your repair journey.

Huge improvement. Very happy to see the after photos. You have a dense looking -- and more importantly -- natural looking head of hair and its only going to get better.

Ridiculously poor yield for 4,000 grafts. Should have a dense frontal third and weak / thinning crown with that number of grafts.

I agree with Gatsby. Before next steps, I'd make sure you get a scalp biopsy. You've already used 8,000 grafts. Not a doctor, but I don't imagine you have too many left without compromising your donor.

Very good result. Each graft seems to have gone a long way.

1 hour ago, jbd123 said:

He drew the hairline, made the incisions, and did the checkup the following day. As others have mentioned he was not present during graft placement or on site at the end of the procedure. 

Genuinely ridiculous that the doctor feels entitled to take $20k+ for a single day's work, but not stay for the entirety of the procedure.

Disappointing result, no doubt.

You don't even know what you're working with at 7 months, let alone 4 lol. Wait 9 months at least.

Haven't seen a Gabel result here in a while, though I've liked his past results. Following this thread - happy growing man.

Doesn't look like 2,700 grafts to my untrained eyes. Also, not a fan of that wide scar. Would expect better work from the doctor here. Hope you get a full refund mate.

3 hours ago, MillyB said:

I've been looking into Sydney for FUE and I'm considering Elite Hair Clinic. This year they started bringing Turkish and Iranian trained techs and from what I see in leaning towards them.

Bro how is that a good thing? Clinic bringing in unproven techs? Don't really care where they come from, but sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Most top shops have established doctors and long-standing techs. Doesn't sound like the case here. Avoid staying in Australia. If you want Turkish/Iranian trained techs to work on you, just go to Turkey and do research to select an elite doctor (like Pekiner, Kesser, Bek, etc.).

Looks MUCH cleaner. Congrats man -- this already looks fantastic.

8 hours ago, Berba11 said:

Personally I think this would be madness. Better to use available donor resources to improve density behind the hairline (so the weaker parts of the frontal third and going into the midscalp). Your current hairline and temple points look great and will continue to look great in later life. 
 

I wish I’d been more conservative with my own hairline and if I do one day decide to take it back up, it’s costly and multiple surgeries. I honestly think you’d nail this by keeping your hairline exactly as it is and focusing on density. Lower hairlines do not automatically look better just because they’re lower. 

100% agreed. Donor does get worse with years - dropping down in the hopes of having a youthful hairline is really not prudent, imo.

You need every hair you have on top if you want to achieve a non-see through scalp. Growth seems solid from the first two surgeries, but you need to plan well. There's a reason why mega-session experts like Pitella and Zarev don't opt for low hairlines (they aren't natural and waste too many precious grafts that are better used elsewhere).

Looks like a clean post-op, as expected from one of the best.

Look forward to the results!!

11 minutes ago, Patrick_Joyce said:

Just some minor thinning in the crown that hasn't been resolved with finasteride and to put small number of grafts into a previously worked on scar (not hair transplant related) to add density to it.

Got it. I'd maybe then stick to Laorwong and Nader. Both are highly affordable and I think have more crown expertise than Pekiner (I'd consider him primarly for frontal work).

This is kind of impossible to answer without knowing what you're addressing and what Norwood level you are (and if you take meds).

For example, I love Pekiner's hairlines, but he's selective with his patients, and if you have extensive loss or diffuse loss, he may not take you on.

Eugenix tends to do higher Norwoods, but not all packages are created equal. Would you be taking a tech driven package or would you go with Sethi?

Honestly, from the list above, the one's I'd consider favorites are Laorwong, Pekiner, and Nader.

Too early to panic, imo. By month 6, it's roughly 50% growth.

Honestly, give it 9 months; if it's still super see through by then, it's likely time to look elsewhere. For context, many slower growers and crown growth seem to get significant improvement around months 8 - 9. I think waiting the full 12 months to assess is silly. By month 10, it'll be clear.

10 hours ago, mister_25 said:

I think that starting a new section is a good idea, I personally see hair transplants and hair restoration in general as a avenue of self improvement. It all contributes to aesthetics anyway which is what we are all chasing so I think it has a relevant place on this forum.

I also wanted to thank you and @Z-- in particular for your continued support and help in DMs. You both were very instrumental in helping me find a path forward and I am very grateful for that.

Appreciate the shout brother. You've handled this with grace, and wishing you all the best. No doubt this hair business will be a thing of the past after you take your next steps.

Avoid Australia -- haven't ever seen anything good from there, and our resident expert, @Gatsby, can speak more to the poor state of industry as well. If you are going to go cheap and visit a hairmill in Turkey such as Vera, Smile, Tarcan, or Este-anything, you might as well risk getting botched locally.

If you go to Turkey, make sure you do your research; there's some phenomenal doctors, but just like anywhere, the vast majority of hair transplant doctors are terrible. I'd suggest looking into Pekiner, Kesser, Bekir, Bicer, Gur/Turan, etc. Other options I'm less fond of are Yaman and HLC, but they are also safer choices than going to a mill.

For only 1,000 grafts? Seems excessive -- any idea of the punch size?

Looks clean bro. Will follow this thread -- glad you had a positive experience!

2 hours ago, A_4_Archan said:

I understand your concern and motive behind this..what you are aiming for is that this will help patients in avoiding those unethical clinics/doctors...i agree the hairmills should be called out but i would TOTALLY DISAGREE to call out a specific country or name it and shame it just because there are many doctors who are following unethical practices...i believe in calling out clinics/doctors who are doing this without naming any country..there are good doctors in turkey and there are many bad ones and this is situation in every country...there are such hairmill/unethical practices being followed in my own country(india) and same thing is going on in USA ,Australia, UK and many other parts of world.

Mate, I think you'd be a fantastic choice for moderator, but wanted to just address this one point since I very much agree with the rest of your post.

I've lived in Turkey and can speak Turkish (and love the country generally), so would appreciate that you don't read any sort of country-specific bias in my post. You can see my post history giving praise where due for great Turkish doctors: Pekiner, Bekir, Kesser, even Bicer and so on.

My point in specifically calling out mills which happen to be in Turkey is that mills from the rest of the world are not held to the same standard primarily due to their relatively unknown status. When someone asks you to assess their poor growth at 8 months, we often assume the worst if they went to Smile, Vera, Tarcan, "este" anything, etc., whereas, barring a few exceptions (like a few infamous doctors in the US), that isn't the case for forum recommended doctors or even mills elsewhere (like the US, Australia, UK or India), so they get the benefit of the doubt or are reviewed entirely on their merits. Often when growth is clearly poor for forum recommended doctors, we insist that the patient wait themselves to death and then silence...

My point is that same critical eye that many here hold towards poor results from mills in Turkey -- in other words, not immediately blaming the patient and instead asking "what did the doctor do" -- should be the standard we hold ALL clinics to. I hope that this seems like a fair approach.

3 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

One comes to mind where I foolishly posted a duplicate members IP to show the community proof he was a duplicate member. I should have not done that, I admit that was a mistake, and a valid critique. I encourage anyone who has an issue, to bring it up here publicly or through pm. I have had several conversations with General Norwood via pm. 

What criticisms do you have? And how do you feel we should address them? I did create this post in the beginning of the year.

I am certainly not perfect and I’ve made mistakes. I will admit if I’m wrong. I’ve never had a problem saying I’m wrong. Another scenario comes to mind when I banned RTC for a perceived racial term.  

I took in the information I received from the community, including you, and I reversed the ban. I am not unreasonable. I like to think I am approachable. 

The person that is selected will be unbiased towards physicians, users from Reddit, and most definitely me. I want someone who will be able to look at things objectively without receiving outside consul from physicians and other forums.

Fair enough, Melvin - Didn't realize we had a thread up proposing suggestions, as I'd been on hiatus at the time. I'd have posted there if I'd seen it, so I'll try to put forth suggestions here that are relevant to the topic at hand and which I hope the new moderator would be able to assist with.

1. We should seriously reassess recommended doctors on an annual basis. There are many doctors whose work quality has dipped in recent years, and one issue is that our community is often reactive. It unfortunately took a long time to remove certain doctors, and it doesn't reflect kindly on the community for us to only do this after numerous complaints. We should be more proactive and uphold recommended doctors to the upmost standard. This will take work, and a second person or committee can help with this.
2. We need users who are unafraid to call out recommended doctors. There are certain popular clinics here who get way too much leeway when it comes to lazy planning, poor results, and patient-blaming (e.g., sleeping on the wrong side of a pillow...). It can give this forum the appearance of a strong bias when you, our unbiased moderator, disappears from those threads, but sticks around to hype their positive results. I get that you may be helping the individuals in question via PM (as some people have told me you have), but there never appears to be a public condemnation for some reason. Our forum recommended doctors should be publicly called out when a result is poor. We don't have any issue calling out Turkish hairmills.

On 2, perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd appreciate if you could link a thread or two where you explicitly say the result is poor from a recommended doctor rather than saying that the patient is difficult and needs to keep expectations realistic. If so, I'm happy to recant this criticism.

40 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

There are some criticisms that are valid. No community is perfect, and we aren’t immune. However, the recent posts on Reddit from the same previously banned posters are done with the intention of inciting harassment and malice towards me in particular, and to disparage the community without having the facts or information.

I believe the best candidate is someone who isn’t “pro” anything. The forum has to be fair and balanced for both patients and physicians. It cannot be in favor of one or the other. The moderator should be able to be impartial and look at the facts without bias. That said, I appreciate General Norwoods participation in our forum. 

I will announce the moderator later today after speaking with the individual and making sure they agree.  I will be choosing some “valued contributors” as well to serve as our consul. To ensure, we’re being fair and balanced. 

Not that I disagree that there are a few people with a personal agenda, I do think there's a tone of deflection here. Which criticisms do you feel are valid? What steps are being taken to address them?

I'd suggest we look to someone who isn't biased towards anyone, including any biases towards you, recommended doctors, non-recommended doctors or anyone else.

General Norwood seems to fit the bill in my mind.

I'd appreciate if we had someone with a more "pro-patient" perspective co-moderate or at least sit on the panel. I think way too many doctors -- including recommended doctors -- get away with mediocre results. Openly speaking, the reputation of this forum is... not the best at this time; a cursory look at Reddit, for example, will indicate that many users feel that doctors are overly protected here and it's a valid critique.

I think someone who calls out sloppy work for what it is, but who also recognizes when a patient is being unfair (e.g., complaining 1 month in) is an ideal balance.

I recommend @GeneralNorwood.

Night and day result compared to the prior botch job. Your hair looks great!! It's nearly impossible to see the scar. Congrats on a successful result!

3 hours ago, Shawnintheusa said:

Have you had a transplant?

Yes, two times. Roughly 5,000 grafts now. I'm very happy with my result. However, if I want it to be a "perfect result" where there is no thinning visible, I think I'll need to do one more, though I plan to wait until I am a bit older to see how my loss progresses.