scar5

What density for natural shaven FUE - about to contradict everything I said if these videos are true, and I think they are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...poA&feature=related,

A whole bunch of these on youtube from this clinic - just for video they look great. There are more than a few patients here being shaved post-FUE for the camera. It's pretty good to watch

Julius,

OK, we are talking different things here. I say Vertical in respect to 'angle of exit' not in the sense you are thinking of, which - correct me if I'm wrong - refers to angle of orientation, or perpendicular or parallel (otherwise known as Lateral vs Saggital slits) where the knife/blade used to make the incisions, either parallel or across the flow of native hair. I think it is generally commonly thought that Lateral slits help the surgeon control the 'angle of exit' better (see Wong http://www.springerlink.com/content/m34282753q42n750/) But that is just part of the story, because enter another variable (that hardly anyone talks about) and that is orientation of the graft being transplanted itself, in respect to the vacant slit. This is, IMO, the real deal breaker for why buzzed HT hair seems to look odd, even if singles FUs are used in acute slits. Once again color helps to disguise this, and excellent that someone brings up up Steve from BHT who has great hair characteristics plus salt 'n pepper color (note too, that Bisanga didn't do all his FUE) For a tech to rotate the FU to optimally orientate each and every graft for each slit would take too much time and require more grasping the precious FU in the tool. They generally put 'em fast and clockwork, not actually like an artist planning a masterpiece. So most HTs are designed for the 'illusion of density' as the hair grows up and out, not for the 'illusion of..eh..'I 'aint bald I just wanna buzz' (call it what you will) - but as pointed out, Steve's does look like it was more the latter. My hair buzzed can look brilliant (relative for a balding HT man of course) in shady or mid-distant shots and absolutely bizarre under the bright lights at close up say in an elevator. It is SO frustrating...I frequently do buzz, but I get told time and again, let it grow, which is so lame..but back to point, I think it is possible and Steve from BHT is the proof.

Hoping your scar turns out minimal, but it is a fact that most scars look great after staples are removed. Give it a few months before you see the first signs of stretching.

You need lots of density on the edges and flat, fine, light colored hair shingling across the skin behind to even get even close. If you want a buzzed or shaved look and HT hair to create a look that blends in with other native hair which is buzzed - at all light conditions and angles - it maybe impossible. However, I believe that characteristics of your hair/skin together with acutely flatly placed small fue units can make the contrast less obvious, (with hair bleach even better, but bleaching buzzed hair requires a weekly chemical bath) If the surgeon makes the incisions even slightly vertical (to get density at grown-out, combed back style) then forget it.

LT, I hear you man and thanks to you, Sparky and John Malloy and others for contributing . Thanks to all comments, including negative comments because they are vital (sorry if that sound overbearing, it's just that negativity gets a bad name sometimes). I too would like o get more informed, and this is coming from a man who has worn tatts AND been called out about them because they were so horrid!! Here is an idea just as food for thought, we (as in the people interested) create a list of concerns, comments or issues, sort through them and them present them to various tattoo/micro pigmentation artists and/or associations en masse, then we sift through the results and try to make sense of the wheres and whys of it all. No doubt, there will be bias towards pigmentation, just as there (as you point out) is bias against it in the HT industry. Any thoughts?

Just to kick it off my 2 cents would be questions about,

1) Dots Vs Shading

2) Organic vs Synthetic ink

3) Deep vs Shallow vs combination

In no way, would I condone the widespread use of tatts on scars based on the evidence I have seen so far. Light, just as in HT pics, plays a massive role. We have a long way to go.

I've heard of it and seen, read and even posted about it. You will definitely find out a lot about it by searching. Never expect consensus on anything around here, but I have a hunch (my brilliant mind again) that it has attracted a deal of criticism - and why wouldn't it? Designed to make FUE easier and cheaper, same as Feller's tool, and ironically both have resulted in a big cost saving (correction - no cost saving) for patients. It is essentially using vacuum pressure to suck out grafts, speed them through a bending tube and deposit them in a solution. Feller points out the drying effect and it seems very plausible. I'm in favor of manual punching by a specialist, i.e. the doctor him/herself, not techs using machines, but I hope the techs and machines do eventually prove me wrong, because docs get tired and fed up of FUE fast with a few exceptions.

Well Juz, this is just plain poor. I assume this was a strip operation - it wasn't FUE was it? Anyway, I wouldn't be dealing with that clinic ever again unless through a lawyer. You obviously know about the Sydney surgeons. I would look at the airport (and the international terminal) as your next step. Good thing you don't seem to have any obvious disfigurement. Hoping you scar is decent (if it was strip). Good luck

Did you have a cup of coffee this morning?

From the wiki on Baldness treatments, "Caffeine has been identified as a stimulator of human hair growth in vitro, and reduced testosterone-induced follicle growth suppression"

What? "testosterone-induced follicle growth suppression?"

Now google, "testosterone diet" to see how diet effects your test levels (most are aimed at keeping test high) and ponder the question, then tell us what you find.

Sparky, scar filling is my goal too. I think an HT can give a good shadow of a graduated hairline if planted very flat and along a jagged line. Tatts would never cut it for me for this purpose because a person's hand would notice a "hair-but-no-hair"thing. However, from an aesthetic point of view, I can't see why this guy can't graduate the color better between the hairline and the empty forehead. But his small hair impressions are excellent - (photoshop manipulation possibility aside) Can he now show and explain why these beautiful fine hair simulation impressions will last over ten years without losing definition? I doubt it, but I hope he can.

Thanks Sparky.

For anyone interested in this, I noted that their single hair after-pics are impressive (but hairlines too sharp) but it is not immediately after that is the issue. It is six months, six years

From their FAQ they state that, (my interpretation)

1) Blobs appear because inexperienced practitioners deposit the dots too deep and they spread in the fat below (presumably their is less of this fat where they put them) They also add a disclaimer that scars can be unpredictable)

I checked on the web - spent about 40 minutes -

and found this, (make of it what you will)

The cell barriers that hold the pigment get broken down by the body and the pigment gets less sharp over time and this will continue to happen because the Ink should not be there so the body treats it as an invasion by a foreign body and deals with it accordingly. source:http://www.girlstattoos.net/why-do-tattoos-blur

2) The colors won't change because they have special blends of ink.

This I confirmed on countless sites to be a fair statement. Initially i thought it was BS until I read so times that pigments/ink quality is everything. I also found out the industry for inks is not regulated - like our beloved HT industry, so who knows.

I hope we can get more educated about this, so if anyone can chip in it would be great

Now I want to run this by the tattoo association or something

This is a topic very close to my heart, or should I say scalp - these days I can't tell the difference. I have been tattooed, I have been humiiliated about it by competitive colleagues and I guarantee, no one will enjoy the experience, or contemplating it and its after effects. So Dr. Feller, whom I respect very much for his candiness, says tatoos go blue and green, and I concur. But I am desperate for a fix and I see a site like this, http://www.hishairclinic.com/treatment/faqs/ and I think slavation maybe possible. What I (we?) have to come to terms with is the aesthetic compromise that may come into play having to repeat the tatts over partially faded previous tatts. Spark's comments that not all tatts go green or blue is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL. Sparky, what, why and how do you know this. Please explain??

Dr. Feller is so frank in the respect that he openly admits that FUE is tedious....This alone is good. Clinics that claim otherwise are dodgy. I have paid many thousands of dollars into strip and FUE clinics, and I know there just has to be a point when patients and would-be patients realize the agenda for clinics and patients don't entirely overlap.

Dr. Carman, with short hair cuts, I think the point is that the only way to get rid of them, is to get rid of them. The technical difficulties you point out are significant,

a) damage to surrounding hair

b) finding vacant areas for replanting within the bald area

c) scarring (mind you, frontal third scars are usually better)

d) damage to replanted or originally transplanted hair in subsequent operation to complete the repair

But there is also the disguise/density problem too. I spent too many precious grafts disguising the misplanted hair and that created a beautiful, but very dense wall I had no hope of filling behind with the same density.

I have had misangled hairs taken out and replanted, but I am extremely skeptical of their survival rate. Hence the dilemna of misangled hairs

Brussells has not one, but three decent FUE clinics..just beware that some of the composite clinics have a philosophy about FUE vs Strip and where and when either is appropriate - no surprise. Hold on to your values. The often heard mantra is that FUE suits small sessions. But this is not necessarily so. If FUE is spaced out appropriately over a number of days. The other thing is the 25% extraction protocol; which is used to justify the claim that FUE doesn't have the harvest of strip. People espousing this view conveniently forget that it is 50% of hair needs to be lost before loss is noticed, not 25%. Yield is the big question mark, but those Belgium clinics either a) do FUE only or b) state that their FUE yield is as good as their strip, graft for graft.

I have seen pics from a Dr. Harris' clinic in Colarado, where FUE is harvested in parallel strips (that is strips of buzzed hair - not surgical strips) and the patient was able to wear their hair normally immediately post-surgery in the donor area. I think he also does HTs without shaving the recipient too, but I could be wrong.

I can't believe you guys are dicing with stretching your scars and that Dr. Feller says the day after the staples is OK. Any sport that requires you to stretch your neck, including sudden right and left twisting ought to be suspect. In my experience stretching can happen well into the six month. Having an HT isolates us a bit and doing a workout is a great "feel-good" response, but resist the temptation if you can

My 2 cents is for not destroying the grafts and getting them punched or core out entirely, but I vote for entirely removing each graft. Some Docs may want to do the crescent method wher they attempt to leave a portion of the plug standing. I wouldn't do it. Other docs rec punching out sigle strands within one plug, also not worth it IMO. The front portion of the head usually scars much better than the back, so worried over scarring need to be balanced. Good luck

Bad angled hairs are a real dilemna. If you try to punch them all out in one go. you'll have mince meat on your head and no hair. If you do it bit by bit, and replant, then the replanted hairs could be damged by subsequent operations to remove the remainder. If you try to disguise them, same. I guess the best thing is to get as many removed as you can first shot and prey to God that they will survive the punch and regrow when inmplanted. If you have enough hair it's no big deal, just grow it long and let it curve back. The wierd angle will lift the hair and aid the illusion of volume. Once you got bald patches though, it gets harder

It depends on the type of surgery. The pain and discomfort from strip is incomparable to FUE because FUE is painless. Strip clinics wheel out pics of swollen FUE patients because the swelling from strip is usually far, far worse lol, but swelling is minor stuff in the bis scheme of things. My first strips were in '88 but Ive been sliced and diced so many times since there is no telling the where and why the nerves in my scalp are so cross-wired. The fear of scar stretching is also something that keeps you aware that things are not back to normal for at least six months post-strip

FUE

- What are the common complications with the FUE techniqe?

- Can anyone recommend any world class surgeons that perform FUE?

Search for three FUE surgeons in Belguim. be aware that one may talk you into FUT but is still an excellent FUE surgeon the same

Check Feller if you're well off, but ditto for the above mentioned FUT suggestions. Shapiro sounds excellent and progressive attitude to boot re. FUE.Check a prominent well known surgeon in Sydney Australia and be patient while you wait. Excellent record but high price. Also two prominent FUE-only only surgeons in LA at a beach and in Atlanta with a C and with bad office rep. And in delhi with an A

FUT

- Has anyone on here had FUT and shaves their head relatively short? if so, is the scar noticable at all?

yes, I have, the strip scarring is nasty even for well off strip scars. It gets worse as your hair thins at the back. the FUE scarring is not bad at all. But in the past, certain surgeons left white dots - particularly those who used 1mm punches. Hasson and Wong's rep has occasionally wheeled out these pics with the disclaimer that they are not representative of all FUE.

For getting results on par with the strip-FUT (note FUT is an acronym doesn't mention linear strip) it is hard to see enough reults to justify the claim that yield is as good. The C and W docs I mentioned have produced a number of excellent and natural looking results with a minimum of grafts.

Oh, and there is the chain with a reputation for incredible graft quotes with a name starting with A,

All hair grows in cycles of 3 stages. One stage of the cycle is where the hair detaches itself from the bulb under the skin and makes its way out of the scalp. The bulb then regenerates another sprout beneath the surface and eventually this new hair breaks the surface and grows out again. Shockloss is when the trauma of surgery prematurely propells a hair follicle into the stage of the cyle where the hair breaks free of the bulb. Hence, the post-op "doldrums" are not just when transplanted hair waits to regrow, but they are compounded by 'untouched' hair in the reciprent area as well as the donor area falling out too due to shock. Think of some trouble in your street, and the neighbours take a vacation till things settle down. The recipreint is most worrisome, because there is a fair chance that hair is minaturising because of baldness, and if this hair is on its last legs, it may not regenerate again. Clinics play it down naturally, but it can be hard to take as you wait..and wait..and wait.

97% is obviously nonsense but don't let a rep's overzelous boast put you off a doc. 70-80% is what you want and that wastage could be well worth it depending on your situation

I know this might be slightly different question, but I have also heard that 50% works in the recipient on the one hand, and I also heard a well known doc's rep say that the donor extraction protocol for FUE shoould only be 25-30% on the other?? In other words you have to leave 70-75% of the hair intact or else it won't look right. This sounds suspect to me.

Labrat, that's fine with me. No offence taken I can see your passion about this. But let me say for the record, my last strip was 16 months ago (trico exc doc), first 1988 and by far and away my best strip result came in 1995, by the very same doc that gave me my worst strip scar in 1988! Go figure! I tell you one thing that hasn't changed man. Back in 88 I was told thatHT had gone through an amazing transformation in the past five years (and it had) - the very same thing you stress now. Another thing I think punters should know is that that Dr. Feller's take on FUE is NOT the definitive one, many docs are doing it well. I think getting think hair fast, strip is the cheap effective way, but in the long run complications with the hair style can come into the pic. Best of luck to you.

I've had at least 7 strips and 4 fues. Here is my input. 46 yrs old, first at 24

If you are happy with yourself (I wasn't, or didn't think I would be so I got an HT) and have a high self-esteem and have done all the research, I think strip might work out for you, because when things go sour, as you age and your donor this, as your minaturized hair that supported and dissolved the HT hair melts away, you will happy to accept it and let things be and let that horse shoe do it's thing, to cover you donor scar. Having done research, you know that the scar gets more obvious as you age, not less, because the hair thins at the back too. If you can't take the horse shoe now, you might not later on, you just might well be bitter not having any option. I swear to you I never imagined wanting to buzz or shave but now that option matters much, much more than the transection figures, or cost issues you guys quibble about.

P.S. If you wanna know why I don't post doc details, you can see my posts on other sites and get an idea of why once you are 'aligned' you are aligned.