weweregods

Thanks, guys. I really do think that this stigma on having an HT is ridiculous. While some guys may not care, a lot of studies have shown that guys losing their hair are considered less attractive, weaker, and ineffectual and they tend to be paid and promoted less in their jobs. Like it or not, there is some social stigma about going bald and doing whatever it takes to look your personal best shouldn't be considered all about vanity, but self-esteem, IMHO.

So, I'm a bit of a writer. I've written a few posts that have been added to the network. I love writing and I love scientific writing--several members suspected that I worked for an HT doc because of the through research I have done and the extensiveness of my posts. But I've been thinking of starting a self-improvement journal and documenting it on the web. This sort of self-improvement would be in losing weight, gaining muscle, career building and networking... I've even been thinking about writing some free e-books and posting them on the site--especially after reading some of the horrible, misinformation that is out there in books and on some forums about stuff like hair loss, HTs, mental conditions and mental health, etc. However, the one area that I cannot improve upon in any "natural" way is my hair loss. I've been thinking about it and wondering if getting another HT (I've had one in 2000 with a "hair mill" clinic that is very well-known, read: notorious) is selling out. What do you think? Also, I've been debating about whether or not to show my face and it occurred to me how strange it is that so many of us don't want to show our faces in these public photos, and yet our balding/baldness is readily apparent in person. It's not like people don't know. I mean, even though I use toppik, there are still people that can tell--especially in direct sunlight--and yet I would never go out without it. Has anyone else ever thought about the strangeness there?

I hate to disagree, gotitgood4me, but I've seen lots of photos and these are good and telling quality. It's just the work that I have a problem with. Once again, if this guy paid for 4500+, he certainly didn't get his money's worth--I mean, maybe they had problems that were unforeseen, but from the way it is presented ("perfectionist achieves his dream") this is not the "dream" I'd expect. I don't think it would be perfectionist of him to request that 4500+ with class 3 NW look like 4500+ and not 1500. I've got to wonder about the Doc, too. I mean, seriously? Presenting this as just the greatest case when it clearly is not. I'm not saying it's his fault, just that this is not, in any shape or form, the best results I've seen just on this site.

Wow... I hate to be this critical, but I would not at all be pleased with this result. I'm sorry, I really don't want to be overly negative, but this just doesn't look good to me at all. It looks like he maybe had 1500 to 2000 and I'm not sure, but sounds like you're saying he's had 4,000+! I'd be demanding my money back if I got that many grafts and came out with this result.

Dr. Alexander, This is an excellent result and gives me much hope, as I have a similar pattern of loss and hair characteristics.

Firstly, for the pro-Neograft crowd: everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that, while the scars might not be linear, FUE STILL produces scars--that's scars, plural. I and several others on this board have seen the scar results of what happens when some unskilled doc tries to do FUE and the guinea pig patient ends up looking like he has the mange on the back of his head with little solution to this dilemma--at least with a bad linear scar scar revision is possible. The only way to solve bad FUE is to transplant into the scars, leaving less grafts for other areas of the scalp. As for this statement: "I'm not letting any doc carve up a piece out of the back of my head," etc. I actually feel the opposite. I'm not letting the doc come at me with some Flowbee looking device with razor-sharp blades attached a la Peter Griffin attaching razors to a fan and trying to shave with it. Finally, your presumption that a higher cost is equivalent to quality is ridiculous. I don't even know how to respond, it's so illogical. If someone offered you a quality porterhouse steak at $1 and you knew it was good, you'd insist on paying more? Forgive me, but I've never seen anyone walk into any establishment, pick up a bill, and then insist that they pay more for their purchase. Speaking as someone who has gotten a very unsatisfying result from an HT--no problem with the scar, but the density is so bad that it can't be photographed--I once thought that 'a transplant is a transplant.' I paid a price for this naivety. I basically wasted time and money only to come-up worse than if I had done nothing at all. Well, I'm not falling for it again, my next transplant will be with a quality surgeon whose skill, science, and artistry are unmatched. Enough hype, let's let skill and talent speak for itself.

Nope, Dr. Charles, I don't work for a transplant clinic... yet. Was that a job offer? I'm just a gifted amateur, for the time being. Oh, and thanks for mentioning the 13th factor to consider.

Yeah, I'm on fin, minox, and I use ket... I have for five years now. I think, as far as hairlines go, I prefer Rahal or Alexander. Other than possible transection of existing hair, what's the problem with packing some into existing hair? I think it would be advisable, give the potential for future loss. Also, a competent doc should be able to plant grafts without transecting natural hair, right?

Several factors figure in to how dense a doc might pack an area receiving the transplant: 1) hair characteristics - if the hair diameter is large, course, and of a wavy texture, they won't need to pack the area as dense because these characteristics help with the illusion of density 2) density of the donor - if the donor area is dense, then there will be more grafts to use for transplanting, which may factor into the decision to pack denser. Not everyone has 90 grafts/sqcm, some may have much more and some much less 3) density of natural, non-miniaturizing hair - if the doc transplants denser than the surrounding hair, the transplant will look strange... ideally, the doc wants to create the illusion that will blend the natural and the transplanted hair in a smooth way 4) scalp laxity - the laxity of the scalp also factors into how dense the transplanted area will be as it may limit how many grafts may be taken from the donor 5) positioning of the hair - some docs can transplant the hair so that they grow parallel to the scalp and may, for instance, design a hairline that--at least in some areas--appears denser because it grows very near the scalp and may not need to transplant as dense 6) technique - some docs have designed special instruments that allow them to transplant higher densities than others--this is one of the MOST important factors in considering a doc, as some docs use huge scalpels and can only transplant at low-density. Many hair mill chains even use multiple-bladed tools 7) area to cover - the more area you have to cover, the lower the density MAY be because of the limitations of your donor and potential for future loss 8) potential for future loss - if you lose more hair, you'll want to have grafts left in the donor for another transplant and you'll may need another if you lose hair behind the transplanted area. There can be no guaranty that you will not lose more hair, so they want to make sure that the area will look as natural as possible if you lose hair behind the grafts 9) age of the person getting the transplant - the younger the person is, the more time they have to lose more hair 10) history of hair loss - this includes family members that have a history of loss (how much hair they lost, their pattern, and when their loss started) and how long the patient has been losing hair, their pattern, how much hair they've lost in that time, etc. in considering how aggressive they may be while still being a bit conservative 11) medication history - the doc will want to know how long the patient has been on hair loss prevention medications like Rogaine and Propecia, etc. to judge if hair loss has stabilized 12) patient expectations - the doc must keep the patient's expectations within reason considering all the factors above As you can tell, there are many factors for the doc and the patient to balance before an HT should take place. No matter what, an HT is always a bit of a gamble, but with the right choice of doc, you can make it an educated guess and come out looking great!

Thanks man. Yeah, I think around the 2500 mark is about right. Thanks for the compliment, by the way. I have such nice hair elsewhere, it kinda makes he hair loss up front harder to take, you know?

Thanks, that's good to know. I think that, given my average hair diameter, that the 2400 range is a good start. It's hard to know if our situation is indeed comparable without pictures, though...

Surfarosa, I'm sorry that I didn't understand your question... I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I thought it was obvious that I only had loss in the frontal 1/3, which is why I primarily only included pics of that half. I have no loss in my crown or center-head area. Only loss of the hairline and general diffuse thinning in the frontal 1/3. Also, I had mentioned that I'm a NW 3 which typically only has loss in the frontal third... so, you can understand my confusion.

Thanks, Mattj, I am in total agreement with you. I think that caution is a good idea, but we should measure our fear against what could be gained from a quality transplant. If one can gain a great deal of positive cosmetic impact without risking a great deal due to possible further loss, I'd say go for it. Perhaps some of the apprehension is because I am new to this version of the forum, but I assure everyone I am actually not new to the coalition--I'm, in fact, an old-school fan since 2005 (I posted quite a lot and even contributed an article on LLLT.) Trust me when I say that I wouldn't just be jumping into an HT. To answer your question, not all of the docs gave graft count suggestions but I did get suggestions of anywhere from 1700 to 3000 grafts with 2400 being somewhat in the middle. One doc actually mentioned that, given my circumstances, even the most conservative docs would likely feel that they could be a little more liberal with the graft count due to the relatively low amount of loss and good donor.

No, RCWest, I was actually balding when I was I got the transplant. I was a NW 3 then still and I have thinned very diffusely in the frontal third since then. It's a misconception that all people will quickly progress from a classic NW 1 or 2 to a NW 6 or 7. Some may never progress past a NW 4 or 5. Also, keep in mind I've been on medication--Rogaine, Propecia, and Ket--for a long time. But, I cannot discount the fact that my father and grandfather also started balding at an early age and never progressed past a NW 3 or NW 4. Just goes to show you, the classic NW scale has been updated, but many people don't know that there are other patterns and some people just don't progress past a certain stage. All that aside, I went to a dermatologist who even mentioned that my hair is very, very dense and has average thickness. I was freaked out about shedding, but she told me something I'd never thought of before: people with greater density will shed more than average, or more hair=more growth=more shedding as more hair goes through the growth cycle. Also, she said that while she's no genetics expert, the fact that I have lots of Native American blood in my ancestry may contribute to my fairing better in the hair loss game than others--many Native Americans lack the gene for both hair loss and facial hair growth. Whatever the case, I appreciate the compliment. I like my hair outside of the crappy hairline... the fact that my other hair is "amazing" just makes the sh*tty hairline even more unbearable for me, personally. Oh, and transection of native hair might be a possibility, but I doubt it as the hair that was in the area that was transplanted into was already miniaturizing.

Thank you for your opinions. Frankly, I've been balding for 13 years... And yes, with financial restrictions, I will have to wait longer. I think lots of posters on this forum have, since my time, gotten into their heads that age is the most important factor in deciding candidacy for an HT--even going so far as to tell a clinic that 39 was too young. Guys, if we keep pushing back HTs were going to be in our 90s before we can enjoy our hair. It's not that I think a 20 year-old isn't making a mistake in getting a massive HT, it's just that we need to use some moderation. Saying that you want to be young enough to enjoy a full head of hair is a valid consideration. I mean, come on, some of you guys are getting more strict than the doc on this subject. I'm not saying I want 5,000 grafts all in the hairline here. I'm just saying, I'd like to go out in public without concealers. While you may say I "have lots of hair," trust me when I say that my hair loss has not and does not go unnoticed. Because I still have "lots of hair," I feel I may be a good candidate for an HT--it stands more of a chance to make it look as if I've never lost any... not that that is my goal, but I wouldn't complain if it were the outcome! Look, I apologize for the crappy pictures--no matter how hard you try or how many primers you read on the subject, it's difficult to take a picture of your own head in an enclosed space. That being said, Surfarosa, in actuality, I have no idea what you would be trying to ascertain other that the fact that I do have a receding/receded hairline--that was the point of my photos and the area in which I would like an HT. I'm sorry, but I don't see what else you'd be trying to ascertain? Do you mean that you wonder if I have any crown loss? I don't. In fact, I have gotten some free consultations with HT doc from the forum and many have said, because I have an obviously good area of hair for donation and no loss in my crown, that I am an "excellent candidate" for another HT--barring of course any flubs that may be a result of the earlier HT. Mattj, once again, I apologize for the poor photos once again. I think it'd be difficult to take any picture that would accurately illustrate where the grafts are because of the poor density. They are all right at the hairline--if you look to see the blurry area where it looks like I've lost the most hair in the hairline, that's them. I don't think they'd need to be removed, just disguised by transplanting around them. They made no positive cosmetic impact; if anything, it's been negative because they draw more attention to the lack of a hairline. Now, I realize that doesn't mean that the doc I went to didn't flub up the back with the strip... but I don't think that he did and I thank God for that. I hope that answers the questions on the subject. Thanks again!