Payam

5 hours ago, VicTNYC said:

Should you choose to go for another procedure with another clinic after the 12-18months from this procedure has passed, it might help answer some questions with this procedure.

1. If you go to another clinic and get another procedure and experience similar results in the similar time frames, then, you just might come to see that it is the possibility that the lackluster results from both procedures is due to your biology and not the fault of either chosen clinics.

2. On the flip-side, if your results are obviously much better from any 2nd procedure at a different clinic and at similar growth and healing time frames, then, your original concerns from the first clinic definitely show merit and you deserve a proper resolution.

But, i really do hope that things do turn around for you in another 4-8 months time with much better results, and hopefully makes you happier. 

 

Appreciate it man, I will try to book with another clinic soon, hopefully I won't need too many grafts. I would settle for a semi-decent result at this stage, at least so I can't see so much of my scalp. And the clinic I book with should be able to see roughly what my yield was from this surgery as well.

5 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

"I genuinely thought I would sit and discuss my case with him, present and future for a length of time"

 

You did and all his patients do, why say things which aren't true and wind yourself up further?  If its a time issue, what difference is an hour discussion going to make to covering it in fifteen minutes?  Yes he does multiple patients per day, but you spent ten grand on a procedure, the idea that you didn't read patient experiences, go on Youtube or read the details clearly that the clinic present about this in your booking is absurd. Sorry, but there's no other way of putting it. And what difference does it make if they're young girls or young men? They're all look mid twenties to mid thirties from what I saw, 99% of transplant clinics use women as surgical technicians and assistants, again you're looking to create problems in your head where there isn't one. Are women in their early twenties not equipped to perform a task which is mostly based on hand eye coordination, basic procedural understanding,  long term experience and fine motor skills? Think through what you're saying, because it sounds ridiculous a lot of the time.

 

And I think you misinterpret what Melvin is saying, he's not pretending that your result so far is great or that it would be an acceptable final result, but rather that the work isn't unnatural, your donor is still in good shape, you've evidently had growth it just isn't as dense as it could be, and its improving month by month. In the case that your result isn't up to scratch,  the clinic offers a 90% guarantee specifically because they're open about the fact that there are a small group of unlucky patients that don't get results they hoped for, so you can't pretend you weren't aware of the risks. Is a touchup the end of the world? No. Were you aware going into the procedure that every surgeon has poor results and perfect growth isn't a guarantee? Yes you most certainly were and the clinic says as much.

 

No one can know why a result doesn't turn out perfectly and those pretending to you are pathetic salesman trying to feed their ego and get you in the door for your wallet, nothing more. I've seen everything from virtually zero growth, technical issues like poor angulation and donor depletion, or even necrosis among many top surgeons globally including those in the United States and Canada, many of which charge more than double what ASMED does.  I'm not putting anyone down, but I've seen multiple poor Cooley results here (a surgeon double the price) in the past 6 months including one with more grafts than you, and the patients were still emotionally collected and calm. There are zero reason a poor result has to lead to accusations of misconduct, being treated poorly or saying your result was "botched", because in your case for example its just not true.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that you've been badly treated, the clinic wants you to get a good result just as you do. Everyone here wants you to get a result in fact, but you don't think through what you say and fling mud in a situation where a clear head would benefit you 10x more. If you had gone with Konior to begin with for example, it would absolutely not have "guaranteed" a better or a good result, but it would have guaranteed a surgery 3 times the price. Either way, none of this is the end of the world and you'll be best suited to deal with it with a calmer mentality. The reality is that you've had a net gain with this surgery and hair restoration is a journey, not a once off. Hopefully down the track you can get the result you hoped for, but its not a guarantee no matter who the surgeon. Sean who posted here went to a surgeon multiple times who has produced countless incredible results and still didn't achieve one that was acceptable for him. You can't always  know the reasoning as to why a result doesn't turn out well or if it would in future. 

 

It is the unknown variables that is keeping my up at night, I need to know what went wrong and based on what I've read on realself from other surgeons it is most likely mishandling of grafts, which is why I got stuck on the techs. If I had a bad result with konoir I wouldn't have acted like this because then I would be sure it wasn't his fault, the same had been true if Dr Koray had performed the whole surgery on me, or at least had been present in the room. I wanted him to watch over me that day. I really am not lying I truly thought the whole day would be focused on me, i had not done my research.

You're right though, I really wish I had been more level headed and calm in this thread, the anxiety is overwhelming and I am constantly self conscious over my hair looking pluggy and unnatural. I really don't mean to sling mud, I am trying to explain things from my perspective and I'm sorry if that comes across as trying to sling mud at the clinic.

The clinic has been as accommodating as possible, I even have a direct email contact with Dr Koray, but he feels I am trying to ruin the clinics reputation which I can completely understand why he would think that but again, I am trying to explain this ordeal from my experience and am NOT trying to sling mud.

Ultimately going back to Asmed might be a bad decision, clearly what they are doing is working great for others, you and many people that posted in this thread included, but not for me. 

On 10/9/2018 at 12:45 PM, garethbale said:

I’d be annoyed as well Payam.  Clearly not enough of the grafts have grown (so far) and I think it’s very patronising for people to tell you your expectations were unrealistic.  Looking at your immediate post op pics you would expect very good density from that.

I would wait a couple of months more though before you assess the final result however.  In the meantime I do think you should use toppik or some kind of concealer which will make the result appear thicker and more natural.  I don’t se ewhy it’s such a chore as you only need to do it once in the morning. 

Also get on meds if you are not already.  Your pre-op pics show you have good hair on the crown and meds should thicken that up, reducing the need for further work.

good luck mate! 

Thank you bro, it really is frustrating being accused of this and that.. I'm trying to get some second opinions on why this could have happened but not sure who to ask.

19 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Payam,

You have been saying the results are a failure since 4 months, it still has time to turn around yes even at 7 months. In addition, your result IMO does not look unnatural, the hairline is sparse yes, it lacks density without a doubt, but the hairline has single hair follicular units and the angles aren’t misplaced. With that said, like I said before; if things do not change at 12 months I will personally contact Dr. Erdogan. However, I have seen improvements every month, so there’s definitely time and hope. 

I suppose you are right in that i felt something was wrong from the start.. i became discouraged and worried by the fact he had so many patients a day, and how little you actually saw the doctor, I genuinely thought I would sit and discuss my case with him, present and future for a length of time, and those very young girls performing the extractions.. i don't know

I appreciate the optimism, I can't see it happening through, I look every day for new sprouts in the 2 first cm of the hairline and see nothing.. it just looks really bad in natural light due to my dark thick hair and low density, i need more grafts, trying to get in contact with konoir to no avail.

3 hours ago, Legend007 said:

U have every right to feel how u do payam .. u paying good money to look better not feel worse .. but it’s just how things are .. it’s the risk u take when u do surgery , ..

but logically speaking , I think most ur grafts grew , u just lost a lot of native hair in ur hairline . ( but those hairs would be on there way out in a few years anyways .. . so net gain of hair n losses didn’t equate to a dense transplant .. I’m afraid of the same thing for myself .. since I still have a lot of thin vellus hairs In my hairline .. there’s no way surgery into that areas will not damage what I currently have .. it’s something I’m afraid of too .. so hoping u the best .. 

This is false, look at this picture of my post op, compare the density of the grafts to my native, and then to my recent pictures, it's nowhere near.

3 hours ago, fortuneplant said:

Payam, are you using minoxidil?

No mate only finasteride, would prefer to avoid minox if i could to be honest and to be fair i don't think it would help me enough, my density issues are all over the transplanted area so only another transplant would help I think

6 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Yea, IMO you probably should’ve never opted for surgery. Your expectations and outlook I don’t think is suited for surgery tbh. I hope that you can somehow come to terms with your results which so far isn’t great, but definitely is not a “botch” job as you view it. 

I apply toppik in my crown at least 3-4 x a week and I honestly have no problem with it, I also take 20-30 min to get my hair looking perfect. That’s just who I am and as I embarked on this journey it was never my outlook to seek perfection or with the thought that I would never have to worry about my hair again. I thought if only I could have more hair and have some options or at least have the ability to use toppik I would be happy. It’s a difference in a perspective, wish you the best I hope you can find some peace of mind. 

A transplant that looks unnatural is by definitional a failure. You keep blaming me for having high expectations and I don't get it, I expected more than this with my number of grafts and hair caliber yes, I don't see how that is setting my expectations too high. I apply toppik to both my hairline and crown before I go out for work or anything else, it takes me 40 minutes at least as it is hard getting toppik in the hairline to look decent and is absolutely soul destroying. If my hairline looked anything like yours did at even 6 months and I only had to use toppik on the crown I would be over the moon, please kill this notion that I expected perfection, at 7 months I didn't expect it to look like this is all.. I know the growth timelines and I know we need to wait until the one year mark, but it's pretty obvious at 7 months that a lot of my grafts never grew..

6 hours ago, HT0416 said:

Are you worried about the redness?

Hadn't noticed it, it doesn't itch in any case

On 10/5/2018 at 10:53 PM, Legend007 said:

I think u should personally write a letter to the asmed clinic for flipping out on them .. ur hair is coming along well now .. u owe them an apology payam ?

Not sure if you're serious but It looks awful man, It looks so unnatural because of the low density and my thick dark hairs. Don't know what to do, just been depresses as fuck over this, even considered buzzing it down for now but not entirely sure how that would look, trying to find some pictures on buzzed transplants.

26 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

To be honest Payam,

Things are improving every month, this is without a doubt a positive. Additionally, I think you're looking at things from a skewed perspective, yes the result isn't as dense as you want it to be however, there is still time for things to improve and they have been consistently improving. Secondly, you're not a repair job, nothing about your result screams botch job. You don't have pitting, cobblestoning or ridging. You have a natural shape and overall natural hairline, now obviously the hairline isn't the thickest or densest hairline, but I think you're unnecessarily causing yourself grief. At 12 months if you feel the same simply get a touch up that's really all you would need a touch up nothing else. With that said, still plenty of time for things to turn around.

I'm afraid of this, don't think I could handle another setback were it to happen, even worse I read other users that were left worse off after their repair/touch up, and I fear for the future. Since I have asian hair my caliber is great but I don't have that many grafts left in the bank, I really need to plan for the future here as I don't want to be left without options when I'm older. On the other hand I don't think I can live with applying toppik in the hairline every day which is a pain as anyone will tell you, so it all depends on where the density is at on the right side in a couple of months. If it's enough so I can style my hair that way without using toppik, I can live with covering it as I do right now, it's not ideal but not a total disaster either. Trying to be level headed and rational here for the sake of my future self, so really hoping for more density on the right side.

On 10/6/2018 at 2:35 PM, garethbale said:

Is that Morrissey ??

seriously though, definite improvement on the last photo assuming conditions are similar 

Appreciate it man, the conditions on the last pic is the same as this one taken 2.5 weeks ago so yeah, definite improvement on this side, hoping it will look good in the end.

On 10/5/2018 at 11:05 PM, BigBen said:

You still have around six more months for density improvement (one year mark). Are you feeling better now?

I'm less than a week from month 7 so technically 5 months. Not happy at all man, doubt I will be at 12 months, the pic above is of the good side and even there the yield isn't great, there are so many issues from doubles in the hairline to density issues despite my hair caliber, trying to be positive though and trust the growth timelines as there is still time improvement. The other side will not improve enough, I've lost hope there, there isn't even enough hair to stick together when I try to slick it, if I look at pictures with my hair a bit greasy the poor yield is more evident, it's evident from the hairline as well with the pluggy look, or when I slick my hair and there is no volume on that side and it kind of just falls flat. Doubt even 500 grafts survived there but it's hars to tell... at least I can hide it by slicking my hair over it for now until I get it fixed. I expected more from this clinic, and especially expected more from koray in our mail conversations. I'm done with them, its just too depressing to think about. Maybe in the end I can slick my hair on the bad side to cover it and my scalp won't be visible on the good side, lets hope..

Appreciate the positivity guys, I know no one wants to read threads like this, we all hope the best for ourselves and each other in the end.

8 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

There is a calculation tool from Erdogan (sorry) and Lorenzo to calculate it. 

 

Thank you man, but i was more thinking in line of your experience from other cases, lets say my situation didn't improve at all, how many additional grafts would i need to get an acceptable result with my hair calibre of 70 microns?

I wanted to hear your guys opinion on how much % density i would need to not see the scalp in natural light...

15 hours ago, Artofeden said:

In other forum someone told me the results for five months are not so good .

what do you guys think?

Which forum? I honestly think you have really nice growth so far and it should fill in even more during the next month, hoping the best for you bro.

7 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

I personally don't think any issue you might have would be a result of your techs, but yes it was the same team as last time.  I didn't have PRP either time.

On the point of techs, you have to appreciate that different patients are suited to having a doctor do everything and others aren't. For myself and 99% of patients in my situation, they could never have had the results or graft numbers I did via FUE with a surgeon like Keser or Konior that does the entire surgery.  At this graft number with Konior it also would have cost almost $50000 USD. Its not realistic and quite frankly its a waste of money for those who require large graft numbers like you or myself. Unless I'm looking for small refinement work where it would be of benefit, I don't want to pay cosmetic surgeon wages. Using techs has nothing to do with dishonesty or trying to screw patients over like you're pretending to yourself.  It also avoids surgeon fatigue.

Look away from ASMED at other major clinics where the surgeon does all the work and you will still see poor results with all of them. You need to stop thinking you've been badly treated because you haven't. The vast majority who go to ASMED are getting good results, look on the International forum where there are about 40 results from the past 12 months. 95% are positive.

It is definitely a fact that tech skill and experience plays a huge part in graft survival rate so that can't be discounted. I will address the consistency and honesty of this clinic in my next update with some examples, don't wanna derail your thread.

24 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

Payam, there is no magic tech (or doctor) who will have 100 % growth rate for all patients. A good clinic will do good work, and will habe all the angles etc. correct. But they cannot guarantee density as you own body is the X-factor.

No need to become defensive I am genuinely curious. Different techs will most definitely have different skill and experience levels. If i went in and had a great result the first time like Jean i would obviously want the same team of techs. 

44 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

Hard to be sure but I think its roughly the same at this point. 

Did you have the same techs as well? And did you opt for prp either of the times?

Looks really promising, is it growing better than your first transplant?

On 9/27/2018 at 6:15 PM, Squidward said:

Yes, Erdogan using micrscopes now is looking really promising, however, a Dr like Keser doing the surgery himself is quite attractive. Even some of the more recent Yaman especially with his new techniques look really good! Tough Choice!

Erdogan is barely doing anything these days, he has 4 teams of techs and is claiming they all have 5+ years of experience, it is laughable, you're telling me he's had 12-15 apprentices since he began performing FUEs.. it is hit and miss with this clinic, some guys get fantastic results, others very sub par and down right failures. Look around this forum for examples.

9 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Take a look at the difference from month 6 to 15. His hairline was sparse and see through and at 15 months completely filled in, 6 months is the halfway line not the finish line.

 

I don't understand, it's as if we are looking at different pictures, this guy has mostly uniform growth at 6 month so of course he can expect a nice result. Still look at the low density areas in his hairline and you will see they mostly remain at the 15th month.. there is no drastic change in the problem areas.

Its really hard not to jump to conclusions.. at 6 months the low density is really apparent if you have poor growth since the hairs that grew get thicker and the gaps more obvious, and every day you look in the mirror hoping for sprouts between the gaps but nothing, it's a nightmare.. I don't understand how the situation can improve that drastically unless you somehow magically have an enormous number of sprouts after 6 months. 

I don't get this, people in this thread frown upon techs doing the extractions yet there are several tech heavy clinics recommended on this site?

That is not hair greed and if anyone tells you anything else they are working for Asmeds marketing department. With your hair calibre and number of grafts you should have more, but maybe it is not too late. You should still wait a couple of months I think. Can you take a picture with your hair pulled back to reveal the hairline?

On 9/21/2018 at 6:28 PM, Legend007 said:

 

Thank you, I really appreciate it, will wait 2.5 weeks until my 7 month mark for a new update, hopefully it has improved some more