gradina22

Upper side

Had a small thing in the middle, just bellow vertex. 

I buzzed off a strip of hair, it didnt fall out

Day 38

Just something that I took at my home... Was out for more than 50 days

What do you guys think. 

Not just about strip/scar area, but also about the state of my donor zone... 

On 7/20/2021 at 5:07 PM, JDEE0 said:

LCMS is indeed the better method of testing as @bald-and-bearded points out.

It is indeed strange that your DHT is well below the reference range, considering that you said your T levels are normal; you would think that as long as you have normal amounts of testosterone available, that the usual percentage of around 10 percent (total) would be converted to DHT via the 5a-r enzyme. What were your levels of total and free T if I may ask? 

I'm certainly no doctor/endocrinologist, so just complete (and very probably inaccurate) speculation on my part (and I would strongly advise you go and see an expert in the field to figure out what's going on), but perhaps you have some sort of deficiency in the 5a-r enzyme. Though this usually comes with very severe and obvious symptoms so I'm sure this would've been picked up a long time ago; you would likely have not experienced masculinisation etc during puberty. Maybe the deficiency can be less severe and result in less symptoms in some cases though, I really have no idea.

I do know that Testosterone levels, for example, can be falsely read as well below their normal levels if someone gets their blood taken after a night or two of poor to no sleep, heavy drinking etc. Maybe DHT can similarly be falsely misrepresented by external factors too, and it could be a false reading essentially, but again I'm not sure. 

Hey bro

I have my testosterone levels now. 

Will attach a pic of the document

T levels measured at the beginning of April. So, little more than 2 months prior to HT

So its 18,7

Borderlines are 5,5 to 25,17

Completely forgot

But you can also see that DHEA-S in my case is elevated. 

Again dont have a clue about this. 

I tried to google it and its seems that it can have something with the female hairloss.. 

Does it play with MPB also?? 

Hey man. Glad to hear that you are okay. 

Well I just read your inputs. From pretty desperate state to a pretty normal one. Damn, these HTs are one big rollercoaster. 

But things will be even better in next few days

Day 35

A small input

Note; Im trying to pull out a stunt with a hairpiece. Ofc, no glue. Just 3 pieaces to attach to nativ hair-2x for the sides, and one for my back. Maybe it gets in the way.

I have a certain occasion in one month. 

But I took some pictures also, so why not post them

Right side

222

Back

Left

Well I forgot to add that In my early days of fighting hairloss I also tried saw palmetto. It didnt do anything, no surprise. Did use it for maybe 6-8 months. It was long time ago.... 

26 minutes ago, RandoBrando517 said:

I googled pg/ml and it says 112-955 for adult males. Doesn’t seem that low 

Well, its good to know this. 

But then again why does the lab use different stats

300 - 850

One guy from Cro forum had 630 or so, for example. And thats completely different than me

Thanks for the info anyway. 

If I consider those measurment as you mentioned, it looks better. 

But then again, even by those standards its lower than usual. 

P. S. 

Maybe I can do the test again. But not really sure why to doubt these results. 

Its not that expensive in the end

2 hours ago, JDEE0 said:

LCMS is indeed the better method of testing as @bald-and-bearded points out.

It is indeed strange that your DHT is well below the reference range, considering that you said your T levels are normal; you would think that as long as you have normal amounts of testosterone available, that the usual percentage of around 10 percent (total) would be converted to DHT via the 5a-r enzyme. What were your levels of total and free T if I may ask? 

I'm certainly no doctor/endocrinologist, so just complete (and very probably inaccurate) speculation on my part (and I would strongly advise you go and see an expert in the field to figure out what's going on), but perhaps you have some sort of deficiency in the 5a-r enzyme. Though this usually comes with very severe and obvious symptoms so I'm sure this would've been picked up a long time ago; you would likely have not experienced masculinisation etc during puberty. Maybe the deficiency can be less severe and result in less symptoms in some cases though, I really have no idea.

I do know that Testosterone levels, for example, can be falsely read as well below their normal levels if someone gets their blood taken after a night or two of poor to no sleep, heavy drinking etc. Maybe DHT can similarly be falsely misrepresented by external factors too, and it could be a false reading essentially, but again I'm not sure. 

Thanks for throwing in some thoughts. 

Yeah, Im well aware that DHT plays a lot of things during adolescent age. 

Well, I think my dick and balls played out well. Haha, hope nobody will take this sentence as a rude one. 

To answer your question about T levels. 

I did the measurement three times if I remember well. 

First time I did it cause my brother had testicular cancer (luckily everything went well for him, but I usually say that maybe he didnt go bald cause that - well thats one hell of a redneck personal science). 

I also checked some blood markers. 

Second time I measured T levels when I finaly went to my first real dermatology overview. 

And third and last time I did T levels at the begining of this year. 

Everything was always normal. I remember that my urologist also commented that I have normal T levels. 

Sadly Im currently in a post op hiding. Not at home, so I cant tag my T levels... At least not yet

I also doublechecked and asked two different urologists what do they think, especially about finasteride usage (at that time I didnt know bout DHT levels-fresh from July). Well I think in Europe doctors are not really that straightforward with giving fin as in USA. Maybe just going off topic, dont want to push this question. 

Also three different dermatologists said that oral fin is not smart (again, I repeat I just got my DHT levels). 

Dont really know is this involved or not, but a few years ago I went to urologist for some urination problems. 

The guy was pretty opened about "street language" so he basically told me to "bend over so he can do finger in the ass thing :D" 

He was checking my prostate ofc. Doc commented that it seems that my prostate is really "soft" whatever that means and that its by his opinion very big and that it would be expected that I have like 55 years (I was around 30).

Dont have a clue does this all have to do with anything. 

But in the ultrasound check, everything was good. Im probably so of topic with this... 

But Im not really sure what to say now... 

Also to add. From the day of my HT I was drinking almost no booze. Just  2 victory beers, maybe 7 or 8 days post op. 

I cant say that I had really good nights of sleep before DHT measurements. But it wasnt awfull. I was feeling pretty normal on the day of the bloodwork

I was recuperating from FUT, so it was neck pillow thing etc, you know what to expect

40 minutes ago, RandoBrando517 said:

Are you sure you’re nor confusing testosterone levels for DHT levels? 

No man. 

Measurement is very fresh. 

Dont know did you see the document above. I attached a picture. 

I just crossed out my name

Is there a problem with the pictures above?? 

Please notify me if thats the case

22 minutes ago, bald-and-bearded said:

I have no idea why your DHT is naturally low without even taking any medications. You should maybe consult a doctor (not hair related).

Yes, was asking the lab what do they think and the answer was that is best to speak with endocrynologist. 

It was a logical response indeed

25 minutes ago, bald-and-bearded said:

Okay that is supposed to be the more accurate method.

 

Well since I didnt really know that there were 2 methods, one better one (less) efficient... 

Im glad that you commented that I did the better one

I dont even know what LCMS stands for

But... Any thoughts otherwise? 

There is also a very fresh topic about topical solutions... 

But Im really interested can anybody answer my questions up there

Cheers

37 minutes ago, bald-and-bearded said:

What method did they use to measure DHT? It seems there is a more accurate one and a less accurate one.

It says 

LCMS meth on the document-

No point saying nothing other than I dont have a clue about anything

- so that would be method in my case. Lab also does this always and there were just a few guys doing the same, at least on Cro forum but results were in classic margins. 

There is one guy that did it a few days ago, so Im waiting for his results. But I dont think this solves my situation

Hello folks. 

So, I really didnt want to push a new post so soon, but I do hope it wont be completely useless. 

So, I have certain question. 

A few days ago, I recieved my DHT serum levels. I did my HT 31 days ago. I tested my DHT levels out of couriosity. But as the great movie title says, Im now Dazed and confused

The process is that they took my blood in my country but shipped it to another one (Germany) to produce results. Im not really familiar with the whole thing, but I dont think that I need to suspect the results. 

I will add a picture. 

My levels of DHT were at 72.

The lowest normal point is 300,at least in this lab. 

So;

1. Do different labs have different referent points for DHT? 

2. Is it possible that my scalp DHT levels are higher than 72, same or lower? Maybe Im asking too much

3. Would there be any logical reasons to nuke my already low DHT levels with oral finasteride? 

4. As I heard from doctor Bhatti from Darling Buds:

Undeniable facts

- higher levels of DHT in scalp are always in balding men

- activity of 5 alfa reductase in scalp is also higher in balding men

(hope i didnt misunderstand this) 

So, in the end is the sensitivity of the androgenous receptors or their number the key of my MPB? 

I have normal bloodwork stats and normal levels of testosterone. 

Also I tried finasteride  3 years ago and had side effects. 

Also I did a trycho test or whatever it is called in english and I got prescribed with topical dutasteride 0.25% solution. But it says tast I need to take it every day.

So, all in all if anybody has any thoughts, please do share them

Hey man. 

It would be nice to know your age. 

Also I think you did yourself a favour and took pics under a very bright light. 

U are surely a NW5 in my humble opinion. 

No point in denials. But its OK man. Thing is without the meds your crown thinning will eventualy hug your midscalp and front thining. 

As somebody also said, maybe some of that native hair will stay over there. 

I do hope that you were thinking about FUT. Took me a long time to break it through. 

On the positive side, there is ofc no 100% guarantee, but pulling those hairs by utilising strip could mean that you are taking good FUs that may have better oportunities to battle DHT in your future

Hands down for transparent, honest and still wonderfull results 2013-2021

Can be a beacon for all of us

41 minutes ago, RandoBrando517 said:

Sorry man don’t mean to come off bad, don’t wanna be a jerk like some of these other guys appreciate you for responding and sharing best of luck with everything 

No problem. 

I also didnt want to be rude. 

Anything that sounds logical is ok. 

I also did micro usb skype conversation with him prior, lets say 2 months before the HT. I think all patients are asked to do this

I dont think that doc would neglect something big like DUPA. 

Im a bit worried with my DHT status right now

1 hour ago, RandoBrando517 said:

What kind of tool did Dr. Murrsanu use to check? 

Well

I dont know man. He checked my donor area with a certain magnifying tool. 

Whatever

I was checked by a few dermatologist before prior to my HT. 

Nobody said anything about dupa. 

Dont really understand why are you pushing this

Ok guys, a bit of help. 

Just want to hear some opinions, especially if somebody is good on this subject. 

So I did an DHT measurement (serum ofc). 

I will post the document bellow. 

Not really sure do different labs have different referent points....

My DHT levels are very low. 72 compared to the lowest point of 300.

I have read that there are 2 things with DHT presence that are undeniable. 

In balding cases there is more DHT present in scalp, and also that stands for the activity of 5 alfa reductase (if Im not mistaken). 

On the other side there are thoughts that is very important how many receptors/or sensitivity one has in his personal case. 

My questions are;

1. If the serum DHT is 72 (in my case) is my scalp DHT level the same? 

2. What do you think about low numbers on their own? 

Any info is appreciated

P. S. My testosterone levels are normal for a 32 year old guy

Probably not, but I will ask. 

Any possibility of updates??? 

Some great result. Would be a great thing to see the outcome after so many years

5 hours ago, RandoBrando517 said:

Your donor looks really see through, did the clinic examine your donor for DUPA? 

Nah man, no DUPA. 

I have very average density. 

One of the reasons why I went for FUT.

Luckily I had great groupings of multiples, especially threes and fours

Hello ced. Hope you will manage a decent outcome,whatever you decide. 

Guys already commented on your average/bellow average donor problems. 

I have a question. Since you already stated that you had sides both from fin and minox (damn, from minox too) did you discuss also that matter with those docs that you mentioned - you dont take medication - and how will that affect future hairloss and survival of your grafts?? 

What were their thoughts? 

5 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I can’t speak for that surgeon, as I don’t know her, or her results. But the vast majority of surgeons charge significantly higher for no-shave procedures.

So if you’re bald at your job you’re not allowed to shave? That sounds pretty backwards if they think a shaved head isn’t professional. 

He wants to hide his HT. I think je explained that with fibers He still has an appereance of a good head of hair. 

If he looses medium lenght of hair that he has, he will have.. .. Problems

No point in doing fibers. Recipient area will be exposed. 

Man the only thing that you might try if you dont insist on unshaven recipient is a hair piece. But... Well lets say that I dont know what to say about that. Its a big risk. I know 

Im in a proces of readjusting my piece, so I can show my face in a few occasions

My status with shitty scalp hair and fibers. 

Maybe it aint looking like a hi grade stuff, but it was working for a couple of years

22 hours ago, I_cogitate said:

Thanks for the info!! So you think it would be possible to do FUT without shaving recipient? Yeah I don’t want an FUE it’s prohibitively expensive and also many docs can’t do 4000 in one FUE surgery. 
 

thanks!

Hey man. 

Fut is a different pair of shoes than Fue. Dont rush the decision in matter of days. Think things through.

I meant that with Fut you dont need to have a shaved donor. 

Hey man. 

I can relate to your current problems. 

There is of course possibility of unshaven FUE. Though it depends where do you live and what doctors are performing this. 

There are so many guys that will help you with the answers you seek but I think generaly majority of top doctors will tell you you need a shaven approach of you want to undergo an FUE for a LOT of reasons. 

On the other side, if you need something around 4000 FU you are an eligable candidate for FUT. Your native hair will cover the strip... But. 

No way you can hide the process all in all. 

I was a hair piece guy, so Im playin ninja while recuperating

Be brave and go for it

9 hours ago, Egott92 said:

Thanks! Yes, I was on topical fin before and over last month or so I started to try topical dutasteride. The formulation is 0.1% dutasteride with 7.5% minoxidil + biotin. I use it once a day and I'm not sure about ml. It comes in a little bottle and the instructions say to apply up to 20 tiny drops to the scalp. I get my formulation from Strutyours.com

Thanks for the answer. 

You decided alone to switch from topical fin to topical dutasteride to see the outcome or you were advised by someone? 

Im gonna probably be experimenting with topical dutasteride myself very soon. 

One more thing. When you place these 20 drops that you mentioned... Can you explain how do you get them to your scalp? Do you massage with your finger pads untill its absorbed? Or you just drop them there, use some finger movement and let the scalp absorb it alone... 

In other words, can you say how many minutes do you spend while putting this topical solution. 

Every help is appreciated bro