Surfarosa

That's what I had always believed. It's hard to see that the back of your head (donor area) is also slowly thinning but in my case I think it is and if I look at my father, his certianly has.

Why not speculate? Speculation is healthy especially in a forum environment? I am confused. I have not been conclusive because I do not know the answer, however I just posted the video that got me thinking for transparency. If you think I am trying to start a movement against HT - think again. I am looking to get another one, just with my eyes wide open. Further - I provided photos of myself to show what I was talking about. @Melvin- Moderator please advise if I am out of line here. If you think questioning the long term reality of proceedures is a bad thing then I guess we just think differently. And that is ok - but I can post what I feel as long as it's within the community guidelines.

I have just posted about this subject in "And then this happened - part 2 with new photos (HTs 12 years later) My fear is that this is the reality of HTs for many.

After engaging with multiple clinics, I have now come in contact with Dr Ball from the Maitland clinic who seem excellent and in line with the best US clinics. I also found a case on here identical to mine, from the US who had it corrected by Dr. Ball in the UK - thanks @Berba111. The pics I have included are almost my full collection intended to show: Where I started in 2003. What I have tried to do here is seperate the transplanted hair from the native hair. Not very flattering but it shows where I'm at. I have also included a back view - the crown does not bother me at all - I'm 47 FFS. I also included one in flattering lights and styled normally just for my own dignity Close up of recipient site left temple. My finished result in 2010 - front, left and right Single donor scar after 3 surgeries (sugeon went over the same scar (I also had PRP after surgery for better healing) A post surgery picture (surgery number 2) Crown 2010 Crown 2022 Guys, these are not repair jobs. This is what happens 12 years after a HT. My other conclusions since this rounds are as follows: Obvioulsy stay on your meds You may still lose transplanted hair as part of the continuous process of hairloss 1 proceedure will unlikley be enough unless you are NW3 and not progressing Think LONG term My big concern now is that I - and others much smarter than me - believe that there is no real evidence that HTs last beyond 5-10 years. There is growing evidence that it's not just where the hair was taken from, but where it was placed. For example if you took a hair from a donor area and placed in the side of your head where hair was plentiful and growing, it would last forever. However, if you put the same hair on the end of your nose, it would likely be gone in a few years. This does not bode well for HTs into either bald scalp or scalp that will lose the surrounding native hair. This may well be the very hidden, very dirty secret of the HT industry. If anyone is interested mafpe sent me a very well done video on the subject. Happy to post it. The problem is that the source of patient info is the HT clinics. They rarely have patient photos updated from 5 years, 10 years etc. People move on and could be happy could be one explanation though. But if the truth was HTs last 5-10 years at most - the industry would die unless new strategies came to light that changed the game. And in this industry, that almost never happens. I hope people find this rare look at HTs over an extensive period of value. I am posting these to give back to this community. For those not familiar with my history: I had 3 proceedures with over 3000 grafts. First in 2003 - 500 grafts all singles FUT (250 in each temple) Second in 2006 - 1200 grafts all singles FUT (build up the sides, photo included) 3rd in 2008 - 1600 grafts all singles FUT (all hairline) I was on Propecia from 1999 for 10 years and then Avodart from 2009 but stopped in 2012 (stupid I know but I was done with it all and honestly forgot about it for a decade). I am back on Minox and Propecia now (2 weeks) and looking to fix my double hairline I am also considering having my HTs removed completely as my goal now is to look natural not to look like I have a full head of hair. Any Today - direct sunlight The dream result in 2010 after decades on meds and 3 HTS - taken with a flash for maximum effect Today direct sunlight Today - left- revealing transplanted hair from the native hair Today - right - revealing transplanted hair from the native hair Today - front - revealing transplanted hair from the native hair Yesterday from the back Last week normally syled Yesterday in bright morning sunlight through the skylight Recent close up of left recipient area 2010 Finished result in bright sunlight - Front 20210 Finished result in bright sunlight - right side 20210 Finished result in bright sunlight - left side 2010 crown - but very tanned (36 years old) 2022 crown - no tan (47 years old) 2003 Pre any HT surgery visiting the surgeon for the first time 2nd surgery in 2006 - 1200 grafts. The focus was to build up the sides.

I finally got in touch with my doctor back in California and will be having a FaceTime with him tomorrow and will be able to update accurately on my history ...

All were FUT surgeries yes. I have had 2 clinics check my scar + my wife, they say the same thing, only one scar. My doctor did tell me that he would be "going over" the same scar each time. I know that my doctor would not dream of discarding FU's - not a chance. I am starting to belive that 3000 singles were used as my work was all in the hairline, meaning the actual number of grafts is more like 1500 (asuming an average of 2 hairs per graft). Therefore, it may be that I have not had that much work, and that work held together for 10+ years but has just started to be revealed due to further hairloss.

That is a strategy I am considering. I would like to see if I get anything from going back on meds but TBH I did not notice an increase in hairloss when I stopped taking them at all and I don't notice much hairloss now (in the sink, bath etc). Also, once I was happy with my hair (2011), I stopped endlessly checking my hair for hairloss.

Photo of my scar taken this morning.

Both clinics last week had a hard time finding my scar.

I just had my wife examine my donor area under multiple lightings. She can only find 1 singe scar that is no more than 2 inches long.

I think I have enough donor for 3000 more grafts based on what I have heard. Obviously my thinking is that if I have had 3000 - and they don't do much - cut your losses. Hence - get them removed and live with it vs. get more - is my current dillema. My old goal was "look good" my new goal is, "don't look like a freak for your kids".

I cannot thank you enough for your kind consideration and brilliant analysis. Lot's to think about but all of your thoughts echo those that have been rattling around my head. I did not notice, my wife who cuts my hair and is a stylist did not notice. Maybe I did want the shorter haircut to address an underlying concern? I am fitness enthusiast and trained through the UK winter wearing hats all the time (every day) - no vitamin D and head rub constantly? When I went to see the London clinic - this week - that actually had a surgeon examine my head, he said "you have not had 3000 grafts, maybe 1500 at most" which suggests haircount vs. grafts. He also said that he could do 2 proceedures based on my donor which would support that view/possibility. I found my notes in an old e-mail account and it said 3000+ FU (all singles)? Follicular units could mean hairs vs grafts ? Again, thank you for your interest and advice - huge help. I will keep you posted as I learn more...

I am trying to get my pre-op / post op pics from the clinic. The first pic is pre op for the 500 in 2003. 250 in each side. No post op picture. The second picture was the 1200 in 2006 to build up the sides and strengthen the hairline. Post op / bloody. The 3rd picture is the 1 year after the final surgery in 2008/9 which was 1500 into the new hair line. All were single grafts placed. I have added another which was taken in 2010 from the front in natural light.

I would like to address the UK clinic trashing. And yes - I trash them. I care about all patients & the few good doctors that serve them. I do not care one single bit about business people cashing in on the insecurities of others. What bad clinics do is VERY harsh, they deserve only the harshest of responses. They do a bad job - they get paid, YOU - live with the results for the rest of your life. I have seen these people in the face of unhappy patients and they go from sales person to robot - its chilling becuase they have gotten that way through experience. Experience of seeling one thing and then dismissing the result and the human waering it for life. My first visit to a HT doc was in London's Harley Street in the mid 90s. They were crap then - I could feel it. The would have done surgery when I was 23. My last visit was last week, they are still crap & I'm 47. I will say this without remorse - they should not be in business. If I come across a great UK clinic - I will be the first to say so. Selling hair to those desperate for it - is not hard FFS. Delivering a successful hairtransplant experience (s) for life is incredibly difficult - that's why so few are great and so many are not. Between now and then I lived in the US for 20 years and have visited - in person - probably more clinics than anyone on this site. From Hasson and Wong in Vancouver (awesome) to the OGs of HT - Bernsetin and Rassman in LA - and many, may many more. I may be out of date - but back in the day - I knew my stuff better than most. I met doctors and patients over a 10 year period like it was my job - did you? I met Jotronic in person and had great conversations with him - did you? By you I mean the world - not Berba11 1. Don't trust any clinic where you don't meet the surgeon - just run. 2. Don't trust any clinic where the surgeon simply eyeballs you. If they are not using advanced medical equipment to determine your situation - run. The density of your donor area cannot be determined by the eye. The state of your hair your in the area that you still may lose it - cannot be determined by the eye (it can to an extent but not properly). Are they even taking photos and recording them to measure against for your next visit? Are they tracking your pattern of loss? Meds use? 3. Don't trust any clinic that try to close you, make your feel bad for being usure, offer you a "deal" etc etc I could go on but I'm winding myself up & this forum covers this well already. I'm trasing UK docs becuase they are still doing the very things this place warns against. I don't trash anyone without thought. They suck. Even if they did good work, I would not go becuase they are not even close to the standard of patient care demonstrated by the likes of Shapiro, Reed, Rassman, Hasson, DeYarmen, Carmen and others that are just coming back to me after a 10 year hiatus from this world. The offenders you asked for? The Crown Clinic - Doctor was offended I was unsure and took it personally. I have had 3 surgeries and my goal is not "more hair" - it's "don't look like a HT patient". Just as we see what we want to see, they sell what pays their bills. My Doctor told me no way more that he told me yes over a 10 year period. I don't care if you did Calum Best, he is still trying for more and they were way too open with what I consider HT Gossip. Also charging for the consultation - WTF ? 2500 to sort me out. If your doctor needs £100 that bad, you need a better doctor. The Wimploe Clinic - 20 minutes late for the appointment. The "expert" was a patient who called in a real expert (a tech) for credibilty. They told me the hair I have left will never fall out because it "looks great". Wow. My donor area was assessed by a technician and patient who then went on to both diagnose and prescribe the course of treatment. They could not answer questions like, "what if I lose the rest of my hair?" "how much donor will be left?" And "why are you late when I travelled 2 hours and you travelled 30ft" ? 1200 to sort me out. To be clear - I still rate my Doctor. James DeYarmen - I know the contraversy on here - and I know the man - Jim is a great human & doctor. This is the result of me being "over it" and stopping all meds/minoxidil etc and the limitations of HT. He did very small proceedures with years in between. No one can predict the future - his canvas seemed stable and then it moved. And it took 12 years to notice the change. That's on me not him and I think he has left enough donor to pull this off if I get a good result being back on meds. Sorry for the rant but I'm soooo disapointed in the UK sample I took. Still open minded though....

I have not heard of Ed Ball at the Maitland clinic but will look him up. I have contacted Dr. Jean Devroye in Belgium as he seems very repuatable and is not too far to travel. Thanks for the advice.

This is picture from before my first surgery - 500 grafts into the temples. This is a picture from my second surgery - 1200 grafts I think And this was one year after my final surgery in natural light. Another 1500 grafts in the hairline.

NW3 yes. My photos are quite extensive in my profile if you can see them & they go back many years ...

If you look at my case it could provide you with some insights. Happy to answer any questions. I stoppped taking meds so I can't tell you what would have happened if I did not stop.

Thats what it looks like in the worst photo which is styled for emphasis - but you could say that. Its actually more evenly spread but its very thin ... which is why I am not jumping back in. I think the coverage that can be achieved with HT is very sparse when photgraphed harshly. Under good lighting I can make it look like I've never lost a hair on my head but that's just lighting. In all honesty, I think medications did more for my hair than HTs ever did if this is the end result. However, I am just not sure ... judging hair is VERY difficult. I will say that the 10 years spent not thinking about it were great! So that is something..... just need to figure out the next phase. Stable on meds for 6 months then FUE into the problem areas seems to be the best advice I have gotten so far. Doing nothing and/or removing the offending hairline is second. Appreciate the feedback and advice. I might do a post to warn people who have had a HT to keep taking their meds.

I'm not quite sure what has happened TBH - I just know what I am left with today. It was not noticable - to me - until this year - after getting a very short haircut. My wife thinks that it's only noticable when I style it to look bad for these photos.

Great advice - thanks Gatsby.

Probably not, definately not as a bad. I am getting back on it to try and prevent anyting further. My preferred outcome is honeslty to do nothing more. But if I have to then I want the stability of meds and finding a doctor in Europe that I trust. I had my work done in the US and rate my doctor - this is not his error in my view it's just the nature of hair transplants. This was my hairline in 2010 and people thought it was great. Well if he did great work then its still great work, the canvas has just changed.

You are welcome. You can only judge for yourself but you can only judge with information and that means not just looking at before and after (post op / 12 months out) pictures. "What will it look like in 10 years" was beyond what I could really worry about when getting mine done. Your goals change with age - thank goodness!

I took the plunge at 29 (2003) - small proceedure in the temples - 500 grafts. I had another in 2006 and again in 2008 - total is 3,200 grafts.

Correct. Sprinkled was 3000 grafts over 3 proceedures. That's why am warning you guys about seeking perfection in your hairline when you are still looking great ... I have made the picture look HARSH because that's how we judge ourselves ... With a bit of styling on that same day it's more like ... With favorable lighting this would look totally fine.