Spidey

Very nice 

15 minutes ago, Hairlossingfast said:

Currently my hairline is a norwood 2 and my crown is a norwood 5.  But I have diffuse thinning all over.  What will you do now that ur stopping topical dut?

Nothing. Just keep my current regimen of microneedling once a mth and topical minox daily. I still have the appearance that I'm not losing my hair but when the day comes where it's obvious, oh well. I'm 41 right now and my hair isn't my top priority. I'm happy with my procedure but looking back, with what I know now, I probably would've told my 33 year old self to not get the ht and not sweat it. 

4 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

Yes I took oral finasteride for 11 months and didn’t really experience sides. But my first surgeon cautioned me to get off of it because he had heard stories of people becoming impotent or having sexual issues after being in the medication for awhile. Then when I got off of it is when I experienced side effects and the infamous post finasteride syndrome which took months to get back to normal but was unable to get hard at all for awhile. And now I am on son’s topical dutasteride and am not noticing any changes in my sexual ability. I don’t get morning wood, but I stopped getting that years ago. 

If you didn't get sides from Fin while taking and only when you stopped, wouldn't it be hard to say that the dut is or isn't causing systemic changes unless you go off it and then see the same pfs symptoms pop up?

1 minute ago, Hairlossingfast said:

B/c I won't take any oral fin anymore.  Wouldn't it be a waste to get a hair transplant and not be on a 5-ARI ?  I could try my luck with the gel and I may end up doing that but I'm so afraid I will permanently damage my sexual function (if i haven't already).  Was really hoping the verteporfin would be a solution so I could get hair transplants every few years and not worry about meds, but don't know if that's even realistic.

What's your Norwood now? Depending on how fast your Hairloss is a hair transplant can buy you time. You'll probably need more than one procedure but there's a lot of cases where people have procedures that last them a while. Imo it's better to get a procedure done when you're already a high Norwood so it's more coverage.  For me I had only 1036 grafts and I knew after a few years id either need another touchup procedure if I wanted to maintain a full head of hair. I refuse to take oral meds which is why I tried the topical dut. I have been using topical minox for 15ish years though. 

2 minutes ago, Hairlossingfast said:

Thanks for your response and I appreciate you sharing your experience.  I don't really know when the sides started.  It wasn't like I took one pill and all the sides came on the next day.  It was more gradual.  The watery semen definitely started very early probably within the year of first taking fin (probably much sooner just being conservative with my time estimates).  Shrunken testicles as well.  Gradually noticed losing morning wood and erections as the years went by.  Never really paid attention to it.  Started to attribute it to finasteride about 6 months ago and it's all making sense now.  I just stopped finasteride for 3 days and I absolutely will NOT go back to any oral 5-ARI's.  I really hope I regain my sexual function as the YouTube vids say that if you stop fin you most likely will recover after a few months.

I really need an alternative to this.  Was hoping topical dut was the answer but I cannot risk sides.  Was thinking maybe dut mesotherapy b/c I heard it doesn't go systemic and drops scalp DHT quite a bit (need to find more accurate info on this) but none in my area and is quite expensive.  

But, I absolutely do not want to go bald.  I realize this is very vain but we live in the most vain time in human history with social media accessibility now world-wide.  

If not going bald is your priority why not save up for a ht. Also it's prob inevitable you end up trying topical dut if that's ur priorities. 

5 minutes ago, Hairlossingfast said:

I was going to buy this until I read your post.  I have been on finasteride for 6 years and have non-existent erections unless I try really hard.  I am going to quit finasteride but need a solution to prevent my hair from thinning more.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Should I try topical dut anyway?  

 

Started noticing thinning at 19.  I can't risk losing my sexual function so young.  My semen is watery and don't get morning wood anymore.  This is definitely not a placebo and I am a fairly healthy young guy.  Would you guys say I can try dutasteride siloxysystem gel?

When did you start getting the fin sides. You kept using it for 6 years even with those sides or did they recently surface? If you stuck it out for 6 years that's crazy. Honestly man hair isn't worth your sex life and other sides. Majority of people don't look bad with a shaven head. It's just a rude awakening for this first little bit. But I get how it feels like it's everything when you're younger. I men's hell, I got a ht when I was 33. 

I didn't mean to scare you or anyone from using topical dut, but I wanted to document my experience and my decision to stop using it. 

So I think I'm going to stop using this. Too many "random" symptoms popping up since starting and to me is not worth the risk.  I'm not a fan of messing with hormones in general as it is.

Last night while being intimidate with my wife, I noticed some lack of sensation with my penis. I couldn't even really tell if I was fully hard or not. To add to that I had some issues being fully hard. I was still very aroused but it was odd having my penis feel a bit numb. My orgasm was stronger than what it was last when I last reported but the decreased penile sensation wasn't great. I'm also not willing to ride it out. The fact is even though it's too early to tell, imo, it does seem like this drug is going systemic even with the precautions I've taken only using it twice a week, applying it in the am, and washing it out very thoroughly later in the day. 

Here's a list of symptoms I've experienced since using this for the first time last Monday:

- increased frequency of night time urination (weird because I know dut and fin was originally prescribed to help this symptom causer by an enlarged prostate)

- weakened/inconsistent orgasm

- decreased penile sensitivity

- Minor erectile dysfunction (not as hard as usual)

- headaches

- strong morning erections every morning (not a bad thing and kind of weird considering the above)

Like mentioned in my previous post, I'm not saying that all the above symptoms are 100% related to the topical but I believe the penile sensitivity is for sure related as I've never experienced this in my life. Never once have I felt my penis was partially numb and wasn't able to tell how hard I was without looking at my penis. 

Anyways, for those who don't get side effects that's awesome but for me even if I get one side effect that's related to my penis, it's not worth it for me. I won't mess with my hormones. 

I'm also well aware of placebo and/or it all being in my head but like I mentioned before, I don't dwell over possible symptoms and worry about them. I merely noticed the symptoms as they appeared. 

5 minutes ago, GhostCryptid13 said:

Personally, if I’m fighting some sickness my orgasms aren’t as strong. Same deal with orgasm intensity and libido if I’m worried about side effects (which is ironic). Not trying to discount what you’re experiencing just trying to offer other alternatives. 
 

when I was on topical fin and got side effects, the…texture of my penis changed, it was more like I had hard flaccid, probably due to something with the prostate. Anyway, that’s another thing you can look for to see if it’s going systemic. 

It's not a placebo. I don't worry about sides. I don't even think about the sides at all, but when I get headaches out of nowhere (and I'm someone that never gets random headaches) it makes me wonder. That's all I'm saying. 

6 minutes ago, GhostCryptid13 said:

I just got my Xyon today! I’m going to wait and use it Sunday afternoon for 4-6 hours before washing it off. Using it once a week. Just don’t want to have side effects

I applied it Monday and Friday last week to start. I noticed a lingering headache on Saturday and Sunday. It wasn't intense but it was annoying to the point I had to take Advil on Sunday.  Yesterday headache was pretty much gone but still felt something wasn't right if that makes sense. Today I feel fine but still have residual "off" feeling around my head like a touch of pressure. Hard to explain. I also can't say whether it's the Xyon or that my body is battling something since everyone around me is getting sick. So with that said I'm not going to say my headaches are from the Xyon. I'm going to wait until Friday this week until my next application and then see how I feel then. If the headaches do come back I'm going to stop using the product especially since I'm only using it 1-2 times a week and about 1/5th of a pump in a small area od my scalp. If that little amount is causing sides then that's a no bueno for me. 

Another thing to add is that I felt my orgasm last wed after my Monday application was weaker than usual. Again too soon to tell if it's related or just coincidence. Will update that as well. 

Before anyone mentioned it, I know it's very early to tell either of the above are related but I wanted to document it now and update later on. 

1 minute ago, Der3k7 said:

I had side effects when I came off oral finasteride but they went away. As far as sides while taking xyon at night before bed I haven’t noticed anything 

Even if you don't get sides I seriously hope you aren't being negligent to the person you're sharing your bed with (if you are sharing your bed). This is actually mentioned in the leaflet of xyon. 

1 minute ago, GhostCryptid13 said:

Have you had any experiences with side effects? Sorry if this is a dumb question, I just want to get a feel for how people respond to such a large dose. 

Literally just used it for the first time on Monday. 

2 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

I feel like since it is a viscous gel and easily sticks to the skin under the hair on top of the scalp it just sits there. The only part that touches my pillow is the back and side of the head and these parts don’t have any gel on them. It’s just on the top of the head 

You do you. 

12 minutes ago, GhostCryptid13 said:

Why am and not pm? I would think that leaving on for 8 hours would lead to less absorption? I already use gloves when applying (I then wash my hands after regardless). Im also not planning on microneedling when using this it’s way too high of a dose to mess with that imo. If I end up with sides then I guess it’d be back to my 0.25 mg per dose topical lol

Did you read the leaflet? It says to use it in the am as sleeping with it will get on your pillow etc. If it gets on your pillow it'll get on your partner as well. Even if you sleep alone, it'll transfer from your head to pillow then on your face, mouth eyes etc. If you did this with your home made fin that's probably a contributing factor that it went systemic along with other factors. Imo why not reduce all risk of ingesting the drug since the reason why you're using it topical is for the alleged reduced systemic sides effects. You're taking the precaution by using gloves but then your face is all over your contaminated pillow...

Putting it on at the beginning of the day and then showering in the evening isn't 8 hours unless your work day is only 6 hrs long. Regardless, the recommendation is to have the solution on your scalp for a minimum of I think 4-6 hours anyways. Doesn't have to be the entire day. 

Anyways, do what works for you. Some may think what I do is overkill but since you're so concerned about sides I thought I would provide some suggestions. 

1 minute ago, GhostCryptid13 said:

The weird thing is that I did wait (a day). Obviously not enough though lol! I’m hoping that duta won’t have the same effect, but the large dose terrifies me. 
 

at the moment I have a 0.25 mg/ml topical that I’ve used since August but idk if it’s maintaining or not. I want something that’ll work, but with no sides. Dr. Cooley recommended I switch to Xyon after consulting him for a transplant (mines April 29th and I’m so excited). I’ve heard he uses it as well. Idk. I’m just a little scared or nervous I guess. 

Well worst case you get sides and have to stop but you need to do everything in your power to have it not go systemic like:

- putting it on in the am and washing your hands very well after 

- trying the best you can to get the solution on your scalp when not all over your hair

- taking a shower and washing your hair really well at the end of the day 

- not touching your hair throughout the day as it'll end up on your hands and your hands end up touching you eyes nose and most importantly, mouth

- making sure your scalp is healed after micro needling. Personally id wait at least three days if you're doing anything more than 1mm 

The higher drug % is likely due to the carrier releasing the drug slower throughout the day and doesn't get absorbed all at once. But honestly that's just speculation. 

I get your apprehensiveness. I was afraid to start it when I read the leaflet. But I'm only planning to use it twice a week. If any sides develop, I'm stopping asap. 

18 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

He said he was microdosing topical and microneedling together. And the microneedling would make it easier for the topical solution to get inside the blood stream 

You're right. I read it wrong. 100% micro needling and topical after will go systemic. Gotta wait at least a day or two. And even depending on needle length, I'd wait longer. 

2 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

How long were you microneedljng plus putting xyon on and how frequently? What were the sides and how bad? 

He was micro dosing not needling. 

2 hours ago, Panamera13 said:

Yes, Got T-Level and a bunch of other tests done before first application. Will post those soon. Even before applying my T-Levels seem low (I'm 44 and NW7).

I use one pump on my top NW7 scalp and just leave the sides. Let's see how this goes. If it helps gets me even 5-10% regrowth or no further donor loss, I'd be happy. Need to setup a appt with Eugenix.

If you're a nw 7, do you think 5-10% would make a substantial difference, especially with the risk of sides?  

Also are you applying it in the morning or night?  I ask because I wonder how much of the drug getting systemic is due to actually absorption or via cross contamination and getting into your mouth, eyes, etc. 

2 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

Also $100/month * 12 is only $1200 yearly. Over the course of 10 years that’s 12,000. Your hair transplant with Hasson was probably around 9000. And without prevention assuming you keep thinning you’d need multiple surgeries of 1000 grafts to keep chasing the thinning so it would be more cost effective in the long run + option of also doing a transplant for ever more hair maximization 

Unlike what some people want to admit using dutasteride even topically can be very risky as its an off label prescription and no real long term studies. 

3 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

I used to think about just chasing a continuously receding hairline and diffuse thinning by just doing hair transplants but you only have finite donor supply and at some point it’s not enough and prevention is necessary to prevent ever having the look of “going bald”.Plus, every hair transplant you gotta look kinda crappy for another 6 months again. And if not preventing, you get to enjoy it for about a year before you start looking thinner again because of hair loss progression. So im all about prevention now too 

That's fair. Like I said. To each their own. I'm 41 now. I was able to rock my small procedure that was done in 2015 and only now can I start to notice some further thinning. I'm also lucky my hairloss is slow and I'm at the point in my life it's not really a high priority for me. Anyways. Let's get this topic back o track. 

Just now, Der3k7 said:

Yeah possibly. I mean it’s meant to prevent hairloss and thicken what you have so I’d just use a pump daily regardless for prevention 

Depends what your goals/priorities are. For me, if I have to actually spend approx $100 a mth for the rest of my life I'd just spend money on a ht or let nature run it's course. But everyone is different and just my 2 cents 

Just now, Der3k7 said:

Be careful with this i asked xyon and they said when they did product testing that it maintains potency for 6 months. Meaning the potency would go down after 6 months for one bottle 

Honestly I don't buy it. And if it does go down in potency I think it's negligible. 

6 minutes ago, Panamera13 said:

so I got my XYON and applied it 2 times in 2 weeks..so far Libido is ok ( Did a Testosterone test and my T-level seem low but Libido is ok). I'm going to apply only once per week for 2 more weeks.

Doc recommendation is 3 times per week but I'm reluctant.

 

i.e. Month ONE = 1 per week

      Month TWO= 2 per week

      Month THREE = 2 per week

Did you do a testosterone test prior as well?

I just started with my first application on Monday. I'm gonna apply every Monday and Friday in the am and then I will shower in the afternoon before my kid comes back from school. I'm pretty paranoid about the cross contamination. 

I put a full pump in a small container and tbh it's more than enough for an entire scalp. A small dab covers a good amount of surface area due to the gel like solution. I literally used 1/10 of a pump on the areas that are thinning so the bottle will last me a LONG time.  I also don't get it on my hair as I part the area I want to apply and rub it directly on the affected scalp areas. None is wasted getting on my hair except the roots. 

For those worried about the topical going systemic, you should only apply in the morning and not before bed. Putting it before bed the topical will get all over your pillow and potentially cross contaminate onto your face and can easily get into your nose mouth eyes etc. Yes it's convenient at night but imo it's not worth the risk. Also think about the person you share the bed with as well. 

Looks great. Why don't you buzz it all one length. It'll look way less noticable and blend in much better. 

Just now, Melvin- Admin said:

I’m gonna reach our maybe they messed up on my label

It's probably up to the pharmacy. At the end of the day I don't think a couple mths is going to change much of the efficacy.