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About amileen

  • Rank
    Junior Member

Basic Information

  • Gender
  • Country
    United States
  • State

Hair Loss Overview

  • Describe Your Hair Loss Pattern
    Receding Hairline (Genetic Baldness)
    Thinning on Top only (Genetic Baldness)
    Thinning or Bald Spot in the Crown/Vertex
  • How long have you been losing your hair?
    In the last 5 years
  • What Best Describes Your Goals?
    Maintain Existing Hair

Hair Loss Treatments

  • Have you ever had a hair transplant?
  • Hair Transplant Surgeon
    Dr. Edmond Griffin
  • Current Non-Surgical Treatment Regime
    Propecia (Finasteride)
    Generic Minoxidil 5% for Men
  1. It has been a week since I asked questions to the moderator. It seems either moderators are ignoring my posts, or they are trying to discuss this issue with Dr. Griffin but Dr. Griffin is trying his best not to talk to them. If Dr. Griffin is not cooperating, let me know because I need to know it. You can talk to me privately if you want because I don't think forum members are interested in Dr. Griffin whom they know nothing about. It is moderators' decision to continue blame/ignore me or discuss this issue with Dr. Griffin to help me. Only thing I need to know is moderators' decision, so I can move on. If moderators keep dodging my questions I just have to assume that they are not willing to discuss. First, I asked David questions, but I didn't get any answer back; instead, Bill took over the conversation without answering questions I asked David. I asked Dr. Griffin many questions, and the outcome is the same. At least Dr. Griffin said he is not going to answer my questions, so I know Dr. Griffin's decision for sure. [bill] Bill, I know Dr. Griffin will not work with me to resolve my concerns, because I already had several private email conversations with Dr. Griffin before mentioning the issue here on this website. Let me simplify the conversations. Me: Can you explain the reason you gave me comb-over photo results? Dr: Griffin: It is your fault for not talking medication I recommended. Me: Why didn't you even touch my hair during one year post-op? Dr: Griffin: If you lose more of your natural hair after one year from now on, are you going to blame me again? Me: You chose to do the surgery without medication. My other choice was taking medication without the surgery. Dr. Griffin: It is your fault for not talking medication I recommended. And he did the same thing again on this forum. Do I need to explain more? He is not willing to present his case to defend, so why are you even prioritizing his claim over mine? The things I mentioned here is so ridiculous. If it didn't happen, his response should have been more like this: "It is misleading to others to state on the internet that I gave you comb-over photo results and didn't touch your hair during one-year post-op. It is simply untrue." Here is a funny naive mistake that Dr. Griffin made. He didn't deny any ridiculous accuse I made. It would have been better if he had stuck with his plan. However, he denied one thing and said. "It is misleading to others to state on the internet that I don’t do more than 3,000 grafts in a session. It is simply untrue." But more amazing fact is that I didn't even state that he doesn't do more than 3,000 grafts on the internet. How can it get more ridiculous? But it did. He made the same mistake on our private email conversation before, and I let him know his mistake. He must have forgotten about it. Let's pretend that I really said that. Is it more important for him that me saying he doesn't do more than 3,000 grafts than me saying he gave me comb-over photo results and didn't touch my hair during one year post-op? It simply doesn't make any sense unless he knows it is his fault but is not willing to admit in front of other people. His plan is obviously, "let's not mention or talk back anything that is disadvantageous for me, so I don't make any mistakes by accident." But he failed so many times miserably. I think it was better for him to deny everything completely from the start. But it is too late now. Their action was so ridiculous during one year post-op. You said, "In this case, there is clearly a sign of improvement." To Dr. Griffin and his assistance, it wasn't. Because the first thing they did was taking one year result photos. And I got my comb-over photos even before I saw Dr. Griffin's face. So it is clear that I have no improvement and Dr. Griffin didn't even need to see my hair in person to find out that. The assistance only talked about small improvement that I had and said nothing about the overall bad result. Later, they asked me if I am satisfied or not because I didn't really say anything back much. As soon as they heard I wasn't satisfied and didn't take medication, they said that is why I look almost as same as pre-op. However, their reaction was more like, "wow, I can't believe you didn't take medication. That's why you see no result." Do I trust these people? Does that mean he didn't even know I didn't take any medication? It is obvious that they said it because they just found the reason to blame me for the bad result. However, it was ridiculous for me, because Dr. Griffin even forgot he chose to do it. He should be writing down important discussion with his patients if he has bad memory. I am not an emotional person who gets angry and does reckless actions. My priority is figuring out how to solve this issue from quick and easiest way to slow and hardest way. I wrote several emails to Dr. Griffin about the issues that I experienced from his clinic. My goal was to let him know I have so much knowledge about what happened and what he did wrong. Most of the things I said here, I have already told Dr. Griffin before. However, Dr. Griffin doesn't seem to understand the situation and my reasoning. I found Dr. Griffin from this website on the recommended list. So, here on this forum, I am showing how much knowledge I have about this issue and figuring out if moderators are willing to discuss this issue with Dr. Griffin instead of blindly blaming me or ignoring me after I stated my reasoning. This might be my last post because if moderators are willing to help me, the issues have been solved. On the other hand, if they are not willing to help me, there is no point writing anything more here since I already did thorough review of Dr. Griffin.
  2. [HTsoon] I really appreciate your input on this incident. Thank you. But I have to make one thing clear. One of my two plans was to take medication for a year without the surgery. Is this a terrible plan? Now I am sure that plan was the best plan for me. However, Dr. Griffin didn't choose that plan and chose my other plan which is "the terrible plan" you are talking currently. I didn't choose it. If a patient was so stubborn and refused to take medication but wanted to do the surgery, and the doctor chose to do the surgery, I agree with both of you and Bill. They both have responsibility. In my opinion, it is more of patient's fault although that makes the doctor unethical. But in my case, it didn't happen. So can we please stop discussing about the thing that didn't happen? I am going to add one more thing. I agreed to take Finasteride during my one year post-op. Dr. Griffin agreed that I don't have much improvement. He told me to start taking Finasteride for a year and see if I get some improvement. I am not going to fall into that cheap trick if you know what I mean.
  3. [bill] I don't know why you are ignoring what I said multiple times which is the main point of my argument just like Dr. Griffin. I also agree that both patients and physicians need to take responsibility for decisions related to surgery. I already said this twice on this topic and multiple times on my other topic. I didn't refuse to make medication. Isn't this clear enough for everyone to understand? If I refused to take medication, I wouldn't even start arguing here on this website. As I said twice already, I asked Dr. Griffin my two choices. Do the surgery without medication for a year or take the medication without surgery for a year. This is the main thing. Dr. Griffin chose to the surgery without medication. Isn't this clear now? Why are people ignoring my most important point? You are saying the same thing as David first said. You said it is okay as long as physicians informs his patients of the risks. He didn't inform me about the permanent shock loss at all. Actually, he said most of the time shock loss is temporary. And he never said anything about much greater risk of permanent shock loss on diffuse hair. "In this case, there is a clearly sign of improvement." Which photo are you looking? Comb-over photo that Dr. Griffin gave me? I guess I need to say this one more time. Dr. Griffin said I don't have much improvement and I look almost as same as my pre-op. How are you so sure that if I contact Dr. Griffin privately he will do his best to work with me to resolve my concerns. Before writing anything on this website, I talked to him privately myself several times. But he doesn't even answer my questions and was repeating the same thing as you can also see on this forum topic. That's why I decided to go with the 2nd route which was to discuss here with moderators and forum members. But I guess it is not working either. But, at the end of the day, you have more hair than you did before surgery and more importantly, you have much more permanent hair. I see. So to you, it is okay if a doctor does 2,400 grafts and only 1,000 grafts grows. If so, did I get informed of this? No. And if I do the math, I have less permanent hair. My donor hair is permanent. So in the end I lost 1,400 permanent hair. I am sure you did hair transplant yourself. And you know your donor hair is precious, too. Are you saying if you just see more hair, you will be okay with it? I don't think so. Why would I want to do another procedure with Dr. Griffin if he failed already? That would be the biggest mistake in my life. I have several questions for you, this is a place of discussion to show both patients' and doctors' point of view. If a patient shows concern on this website and a doctor is not willing to talk back, what is your opinion about it? And this forum is for public discussion. Why did you recommend me contact Dr. Griffin privately? The last question is what is your opinion about Dr. Griffin saying because of HIPAA (patient privacy), he can't answer any of my questions such as his reason of not touching my hair, giving me comb-over photo results, or not informing about high risk of permanent shock loss for diffuse hair?
  4. [Dr. Griffin] I know you are not going to answer this question. However, I want forum members to know that you are horrible at lying, so I am going to ask you a question. You said that you can't answer my questions because of this HIPAA (patient privacy) nonsense excuse. You know that you can answer my questions without revealing my identity, right? Did you think making that excuse will help you? Actually you made it worse. Now I can use your puny excuse for my advantage. Okay. If that is a reason you can't answer any of my questions, why didn't you answer any of my questions on our email conversation? It was our private conversation. If you deny the fact that you answered my questions on our email conversation, I can use our email conversation as a hard proof. That makes you a liar. On the other hand, if you agree that you didn't answer my questions on our email conversation, you just lied your reason of not answering my questions. Is that the best excuse you came out with? It starts to become like our email conversation.
  5. [David] Now I hope you can see how the recommended physician Dr. Griffin treats his patients. Dr. Griffin refused to answer any of my questions. He just made a puny excuse of HIPAA (patient privacy) to ignore all of my questions. He can simply answer all my questions without revealing my identity. Wasn't this forum made, so people can hear both patients' and doctors' sides? If he refuses to answer any of my questions, why is he even on your recommended doctor's list? Other doctors seem to have no problem discussing issues without revealing patients' identity. You said that you know Dr. Griffin has a history of exceptional patient care and would certainly stand behind his work if the result is truly subpar. However, do you still truly believe this after hearing this response? Because I have an experience with Dr. Griffin in person, I know he is exactly the opposite of it. And I have already expected this kind of response from Dr. Griffin. Why did you give me comb-over one year result photos? Why didn't you touch my hair during one year post-op? Why didn't you mention the danger of permanent shock loss for diffuse hair loss? Etcetera. Are these so hard to answer? I understand, to Dr. Griffin, it is extremely difficult to answer any of my questions. Because everything he did to me was wrong, not saying anything is the best action he can do now. Let's look at doctor's mistakes from his response. He said he spent a great deal of time and effort explaining the hair transplantation process. He said patients will continue to lose their hair. See? He keeps repeating facts that I already knew and are not even relate to the issues that I brought up. That means he has lack of understanding patients. How can he care for his patients if he doesn't understand his patients? As I said before, he still didn't talk about the danger of permanent shock loss for diffuse hair loss. There we go. He really believes that the result was poor because I naturally lost my hair. He is so certain about it that he didn't even touch my hair during the one year post-op. Even many people on this forum know about the danger of permanent shock loss for diffuse hair loss. But it seems that Dr. Griffin still doesn't know about it. How can a doctor do hair surgery without knowing this? He is refusing to say anything about the reason he didn't touch my hair because of "HIPAA (patient privacy)" issue. One new thing that I just heard from him is: "for patients who only use Rogaine or nothing at all, their hair loss progression may appear that a procedure never took place." "That a procedure never took place"? He never said this and he is lying. But, to believe or not is other forum members' decision. It is not important at all. However, he added this sentence to indirectly address that I have no improvement and made an excuse. Now, Dr. Griffin cleared out that he also believes that I have no improvement. "It is impossible to tell any patient exactly how many transplants they will require in their lifetime". I also know it. Why is Dr. Griffin keeps mentioning things that I didn't disagree? Did I said I have a problem with it? No. But I also disagree with this partially. Even though it is impossible to tell exactly how much hair people will going to lose, but experienced doctors can make educated guess which Norwood stage their patients is heading. Even some of forum members know about this. But Dr. Griffin has no clue about it. Dr. Griffin said he will perform a session of 3,000 grafts or more if the patient requires such numbers of grafts. That means he didn't do it because it wasn't my case. But in our email conversation, his exact quote was: "When deciding how many grafts you need: I do not want to burden a young patient like yourself with an unreasonably large number of grafts." So he is lying. It is a good thing that I didn't talk to Dr. Griffin in person and I talked to him on email. Because if a person is not being truthful, that person will make mistake at certain point in their argument. Dr. Griffin said: "It is misleading to others to state on the internet that I don’t do more than 3,000 grafts in a session. It is simply untrue." Is this doctor for real? I didn't say that Dr. Griffin doesn't do more than 3,000 grafts in a session. It is exactly opposite. I said Dr. Griffin sometimes does more than 3,000 grafts, but why he didn't do it on me. The funny thing is that he already said the same thing during our email conversation. I responded exactly the same before. He is still making the same mistake. "Additionally, at my practice we always take photos to show overall results and improvement." Can you explain about comb-over photos you gave me, Dr. Griffin? Just answer my questions. But I know you can't. He didn't touch my hair during one year post-op, and he took comb-over photos. And he looked at my comb-over photos to evaluate the result. And he is so sure that his surgery was successful. Now let's talk about the most important thing. "However, it is certainly the patient’s choice to follow my recommendations and I certainly can’t force a patient to do something he/she is not comfortable with such as taking medication." I certainly followed his recommendations. I am saying this so many times, and he still doesn't get it. I gave Dr. Griffin my two choices of plan. 1) Do surgery without medication. Wait for a year. See the full result of the surgery and decide if I want to start taking medication. 2) Start taking medication and no surgery yet. Wait for a year. See the full result of the medication and decide if I want to do the surgery. Dr. Griffin chose to do the surgery. At that moment, I was being optimistic and thought it is best to follow the doctor's decision. Now his main and only one point has been debunked. What else can Dr. Griffin say?Everything I mentioned today, I already said before. David, I already know Dr. Griffin won't do anything. If he continue replying, he will make more mistakes. But I don't know about you. What can you say about this incident and Dr. Griffin? And what are you going to do about it? I know no one really talked about Dr. Griffin here on this website. It might be the first time discussing about Dr. Griffin detail on this forum.
  6. [HTsoon] I didn't refuse to take medicine. As I said before, I gave Dr. Griffin my two plans. 1) Do surgery without medication. Wait for a year. See the full result of the surgery and decide if I want to start taking medication. 2) Start taking medication and no surgery yet. Wait for a year. See the full result of the medication and decide if I want to do the surgery. Dr. Griffin chose to do the surgery. At that moment, I was being optimistic and thought it is best to follow the doctor's decision. This is why his respond is shocking and naive. Because even I mention to him that it was his choice, he is still criticizing me that I refused to take medicine. And he completely ignore what I said. He is just afraid to answer anything I said. But doesn't it prove that he also knows that it was his fault? But you have a good point. Even I refuse to take medication, if a doctor perform the surgery, that doctor is unethical. However, when arguing about whose fault it is, it can be ambiguous to say if it is the patient's fault or the doctor's fault. But his respond was the best he can make in this situation. In both situations, Dr. Griffin is unethical.
  7. cousar8, Even a doctor is recommended on this site, unless that doctor has received many reliable detailed positive reviews by patients themselves, I wouldn't recommend the doctor. Dr. Griffin is recommended on this site, but he doesn't have any positive or negative reviews because no one really talks about him. The only time his name is brought up is when someone is searching for a doctor in Georgia, because he is listed on the recommended doctors list. I will just say my experience with Dr. Griffin was horrible, unless you are really considering him and want to hear more in detail.
  8. David, I really appreciate your help. This is one of reasons I decided to go with one of recommended doctors here on this website, moderators contacting their recommended doctors directly when users have concerns. I am not in a hurry. But I want this issue to be solved because what they have done is unacceptable to me. If I don't receive a response from a doctor, I will wait for two more weeks and let you know.
  9. It has been a whole month since the moderator David said he will make Dr. Griffin aware of this discussion and ask him to share his perspective on my case. However, I didn't hear anything from David or Dr. Griffin since then. I guess Dr. Griffin also knows it was his fault and sharing his point of view will make the situation worse for him. David, you are so sure that Dr. Griffin has a history of exceptional patient care and would certainly stand behind his work if the result is truly subpar. But from my personal experience, it is far from it; it is moving far away now. Maybe it is because he never had a poor surgery result, so he never had to stand behind his work. If results were bad, they were patients' fault or inevitable nature's act. The doctor is very certain that his surgeries are always successful, so he doesn't even need to touch my hair to evaluate the fact. I will make replying easier for Dr. Griffin if he decides to reply back. I want Dr. Griffin to answer every single of these questions to make everything clear without skipping or making answers ambiguous. 1) I gave you my two plans. One was taking medication without the surgery for a year. The other one was doing the surgery without medication for a year. Why did you choose to do the surgery without medication? And why are you blaming me for not taking medication when you were the one who chose that route? 2) Why did you give me comb-over one year result photos? The assistant said he doesn't know which way to brush my hair to match my pre-op photos. Do you agree with him? 3) Why didn't you even touch my hair during one year post-op for evaluation? And what is the reason that you are so certain that the grafts you implanted grew well and I lost more of my hair naturally? 4) After the one year post-op, you told me that during mid year visit, you were impressed with the new startup of my grafts at that time but you were also dismayed at the amount of follicles I had lost due to male pattern progressive loss, on our email conversation. But why didn't you tell me that during mid year visit or one year visit? 5) Why didn't you mention the danger of permanent shock loss for diffuse hair loss? And why aren't you even considering that as a possible reason for the poor result? 6) Why did you recommend only 1500-1800 grafts when I needed more? And why did clinic people keep mentioning I received a lot of grafts? Why did you say 3,000 grafts were a lot for me? 7) Why are you refusing to show me grafts placement chart? 8) Your website says the price for each individual hair restoration session ranges from $4,500-$12,000. It means your session ranges from 152 to 1,752 grafts. Is this true? 9) Do you even know I have a dozen of thick transplanted hair that haven't grown on my crown since you didn't touch my hair? If Dr. Griffin has a history of exceptional patient care, I am sure he will answer each of these questions truthfully without skipping, and stand behind his work. I talked to Dr. Griffin and the clinic several times on email and they avoided answering most of these questions. If it wasn't his fault, why is it so hard answering these questions?
  10. [HTsoon] I understand what you are saying. I know it might be hard to tell if the surgery was successful of not. But here is the psychology. You need to think from their perspective. Why do you think the clinic showed me comb over photos, if they thought the surgery was successful? Why did the assistant, who also helps the doctor during the surgery, say the doctor keeps the records of hair placements. Then after he left the room to get the photos (and possibly talked to the doctor) and came back saying the doctor doesn't have the record because he plans while doing the surgery? Why do you think the doctor, who should be on the side saying my appearance looks better, said there is not much improvement? Let's say the doctor really thinks my surgery was successful. If I tell him I am not satisfied with the result, his reaction should have been explaining and convincing me how the surgery was successful. But instead he started to blame me, meaning he really believes the surgery was unsuccessful. If the result looks poor because it is scattered across the whole scalp, he should have been explaining that. But he didn't, meaning that is not the case. I believe that they have the data of my graft placements. Because even before I met the doctor for my first post-op checkup (6.5 month), I asked them on a phone for graft counts and graft placements. They said I will get those during my 1 year post-op. They didn't say they don't have graft placement data. But they are refusing to show me, meaning it is disadvantageous for them if I know the details. If they didn't make these obvious mistakes, I would have not even bothered to talk to them, because there aren't going to be enough points to make to argue with them. [MrGio-WHTCClinic] Yes, I agree. They didn't even measure my pre-op or post-op density. 6.5 months post-op checkup was 5 minutes; the doctor didn't touch my hair and just looked at photos during 1 year post-op checkup. They should be documenting those, not for patients, but for themselves. But they don't even do that.
  11. [HTsoon] The grafts were placed focused on hairline (where there wasn't any hair) and front area (imbetween follicles scattered around my head), but also on my crown area (so, basically everywhere). The doctor didn't even touch my hair or give detailed evaluation during the one year post-op. I asked for data of my graft placement. But they said the doctor doesn't have it, because he plans and places grafts during the surgery. However, there is no excuse not to have it, because they can write down the data after the surgery. And what kind of doctor slacks off with writing down details of the surgery? My guess is that they have it, but they just don't want me to see it. There is a high possibility that I had permanent shock loss from the surgery because I have diffuse hair loss. But the doctor didn't mention it at all. And let's say the transplanted hair grew well, but the doctor is so sure that I loss more hair naturally. It could be from permanent shock loss from the surgery which the doctor didn't inform me. But I think the doctor didn't mention me about the possibility of permanent shock loss on diffuse hair because I might have not decided to do the surgery. Yes, since I have learned many things from this website, I think the best option was to take medicine for a year without the surgery to stabilize the hair loss first. Thank you so much for the input. See my photo attachment I took after the surgery to see the placement of grafts. [David - Moderator] I stated that I am better off appearance-wise than prior to my surgery because I see improvement. But if it looks like less than half of transplanted hair grew in the end, of course I won't be satisfied. I see the improvement on my hairline because there was no hair there. But I don't see any improvement on my front and crown area. My guess is that I already had hair there, and I could have gotten permanent shock loss. On my crown area, I still have a dozen of 2 mm hair strands which wouldn't grow or fall out. I wasn't stubborn about doing the surgery. I already said I told him about my two choices priority to the surgery. The other one was to take medication only for a year to see the result of medication first. At that moment, I was being optimistic and trusted the doctor's choice. And the doctor chose to do the surgery. Should Dr. Griffin have turned me away if I refused to take meds? In my opinion that is the doctor's choice. But when did I refuse to take medications? My other choice was to take medications without the surgery. You also mentioned that the doctor fully informed me about the natural progression of genetic hair loss. That's the doctor's only excuse. But did the doctor emphasize that taking medication is almost a must? Was he like "medicines are really required after the surgery. But it is your choice."? No. He was like "okay, i see. Then I will do the surgery." One important thing is that the doctor didn't informed me about high chance of permanent shock loss from diffuse hair loss patients after the surgery. He has never mentioned that at all from initial consultation and still now. I think if the transplant was successful, that's a more likely reason. But if informing me can just cover the poor result, he didn't inform me about permanent shock loss at all which is his fault. Reading from many forum topics, people with diffuse hair loss is not good candidates for the surgery and they might gain much more from just taking medications. Did I get informed about this? No. Plus, let's just say it was my fault. Do his choices to show me comb over result photos, to talk only about improvements before I said I am not satisfied, to not touch my hair for thorough examination show exceptional patient care? Talking about the result, the doctor also agrees that I don't have much improvement, and I agree with it, too. Maybe it looks better because my 12 month photos have 2 inches longer hair than 8 month photo. I didn't discuss about these issues with the doctor in person. Because they already lost trust after showing me comb over result photos. Plus, the doctor cannot take back words, if I talk to him using emails. I don't mind discussing this on public with the doctor.
  12. Hello. I guess you read my previous thread. But this is not a duplicated thread. My previous thread was on "Hair Restoration Results Posted by Patients." I asked people to evaluate my 8.5 month photo results, so I can have a better idea when I meet my doctor for 1 year post-op. And I posted "short" version of my 1 year post-op meeting experience on that thread to inform people who have replied to solve their curiosity. This thread is in "Hair Transplant Experiences and Surgeon Reviews," and I am now reviewing the doctor. Maybe you just glanced at my new thread and guessed this is a duplicated one. This is much detailed one including their pricing, what is on their consultation paper, and small details that I skipped. I have one more dialogue with the doctor. But basically, he said the same thing. At this point, there is no point of arguing with him more. And I also told him that. He knew I was going to write a review about him on internet, but he thought that having one bad review is worth more than talk about the compensation. So, here is the review.
  13. I had an FUT transplant on October 1, 2014 with Dr. Edmond Griffin who is recommended on this website. He is less known, and no one really talks about him on this website. My result was bad, and the way they handled the situation was terrible. They are blaming me for the poor result while it was obvious that it was their fault. [short story] 1) The doctor recommended me 1800 grafts (less than what I actually needed) during the consultation, and I decided to go for it. After a year, during arguments, he said he did less because he didn't want to burden me with a large number of grafts. It means he obviously knew I needed more grafts, but he didn't tell me, because it might just scare me away and not do the surgery. 2) I didn't like the idea of starting to take preventions right after the surgery. Because then, poor result could be covered by successful prevention medicine result. I told the doctor one of my choices would be to take preventions only for a year and see the full result of the medicine first and decide if I want the surgery. And my other choice would be to do the surgery without preventions to see the full result of the surgery first and start taking preventions. The doctor chose to do the surgery because of money. During one year post-op, he blamed me for not taking preventions, because he forgot what we discussed during the initial consultation. Even after I explained what actually happened, it was still only his main point of defense, because that is all he can do and he doesn't want to provide any compensation. 3) I noticed that I needed more grafts after looking at photos I took of myself for documentation. I asked them for 3000 grafts, but they said 3000 is too many, and they did 2400 grafts, which is still not enough, in the end. After the surgery the doctor said, "your head is larger than I thought. You must be smart." Nice excuse. 4) After reading forums on this website, I decided it was best to start taking prevention. And I started using minoxidil a month after the surgery. 5) Other than the new low density hairline, I didn't see any difference. I can't even tell the difference between my month 6 and month 12. I still have a dozen of ungrown thick transplanted hair on my crown. 6) During one year post-op, they gave me comb-over photo results! The assistant who took my photo results said he doesn't know which way to brush my hair to match my pre-op photo. He only talked about improvements first. They asked me if I am on prevention. I needed them to be truthful of my result, so I said no. Now they started to say that my result is poor and that is why I look almost as same as pre-op, which I also agree. The doctor didn't even touch my hair during the one year post-op, and he was so sure that the surgery went well, but I lost more hair because I didn't take any prevention. 7) I didn't criticize them at all during the one year post-op. I just agreed with them in person. I decided to argue with them by sending emails, because then I can get a hard-proof and they can't change what they said before. The doctor kept repeating it was my fault for not taking prevention and his surgery was successful. [before the consultation] I am 30 years old. My hair loss was very slow progression for around 5 years (maybe 10 years), so I didn't notice it at first. I only looked at myself in a mirror, and I only noticed my receding hairline at first. I did some research online, and I found this website. I looked at hundreds of photos, and it seemed around 1500-2000 grafts on my hairline will be enough for me. I looked at recommended physicians around my area and Dr. Edmond Griffin was recommended. There is almost no reviews about him on this website, but after reading his profile description on this website which talked good things about him, I decided to go with him. But it was a terrible mistake. [During the initial consultation] During the initial consultation, Dr. Edmond Griffin mentioned receding hairline and thinning on top. He recommended 1500-1800 grafts to lower my hairline and fill the front area for more density (which wasn't enough for me as other people on this website forum also agreed). I was expecting that much for my hair line and front area, too. Hearing that made me sure that my hair loss is not bad yet, and it is a starting stage. He made it sound like it wasn't bad either and I will be satisfied with 1500-1800 grafts. (One year later, he said in quote: "When deciding how many grafts you need: I do not want to burden a young patient like yourself with an unreasonably large number of grafts." So, he wasn't being truthful. He knew that number of grafts wasn't enough for me from the start). He also mentioned prevention medications. I was familiar with prevention medications from reading forum on this website. However, I didn't like the idea of both doing a surgery and taking prevention medications at that moment. Because the result of surgery might turn out to be bad and the result of prevention medication could cover it. So I told the doctor, I don't want to do both at the moment. One of my two choices was to take prevention medication only for a year, see its full result first, and decide later if I want a surgery or not. My other choice was to take a surgery without medications and see its full result first, and decide later if I want to take prevention medication. The doctor chose to do the surgery! (And one year later when the result came out bad, he told me it is my fault that I didn't take prevention medication. He even forgot I told him about my two choices during the consultation). My surgery day was scheduled to be 3 weeks later. It is usually 2 weeks for them. While filling out the consultation, I asked about the summer discount they were talking about on their website. They said the summer discount is until September 30th and it is depending on my surgery date, not the consultation date. And they scheduled me on October 1st (It wasn't even on 2nd or 3rd to make it less obvious...). [After the initial consultation] I decided to make a photo documentation like people do on this website, and I noticed that my hairloss wasn't minor (It was because I couldn't see my top and crown area on a mirror, and the doctor acted like it was minor). I went through photo results in this website and I thought I need around 3000 total to cover the top and crown area, too. So I called the clinic and said I want 3000 grafts instead. The clinic responded 3000 was too many but they will let the doctor know about it. During the surgery day, the doctor also said 3000 is too many (which was a lie. Because on the consultation paper, the maximum number they do is 3000 grafts, and the doctor obviously knew that his recommended number of grafts wasn't enough from the start). So I told the doctor to do as many as he can do to cover up the area, and he ended with 2400 grafts. The word from the doctor after the surgery was: "your head is larger than I thought. You must be smart." I don't know why the doctor even said that. That means, he expected less grafts required for me, but in reality, it wasn't enough for me. [Pricing] Their pricing is different. FUT costs $5 per a graft all the way until 3,000 grafts, which is the maximum amount they do, according to the consultation paper. And they add an additional base price depending on how much graft range you are having. For 1-1000 grafts, they add $2,500. $2,000 for 1100-1900 grafts. $1,500 for 2000-2900 grafts. $1,000 for 3000 max graft. After that, they add anesthedia fee, laboratory fee, and graft media fee which are $1,240 addtional fee. However, you can see he does 3,000 grafts or more sometimes from his photo results. It is a trick that they just made it seem like even 2,000 grafts are large amount. If you look at his website, this is the quote on their website: "The price for each individual hair restoration session ranges from $4,500-$12,000, depending on the needs of the patient." If you use math, it means their session ranges from 152 grafts to 1,752. That isn't a reasonable amount at all. Does that mean they even do 152 grafts? You can see that he is not being honest. https://www.griffincenter.com/faq/financial-scheduling-faqs/ Read Dr. Edmond Griffin's profile on this website: "His focus on patient care over marketing allows him to keep his fees surprisingly low. Given his excellent reputation and results, I believe he is one of the best values in United States." This is completely misleading description, and it should be changed. When I heard the price, I was like, "of course, there is hidden fees in the United States. From reading forum, it seems he used different pricing 7 years ago. But his total pricing isn't much different. His price is higher than the other respected surgeons on this website. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/145535-dr-griffin-atl.html [Consulation Paper] And under the surgery fee sheet, they have these lists. Patient understands the following: 1) Hair loss is progressive and unpredictable. 2) Surgery does not prevent further hair loss, therefore preventative measures must be taken. 3) Multiple procedures maybe necessary for optimal fullness. 4) # Additional sessions may be needed for optimal fullness.They circled the number 2 on mine. So the paper says "2 additional sessions may be needed for optimal fullness." However this is a simple trick. They made this ambiguous on purpose. It didn't specify if I need 2 more at the moment or in the future after I lose more hair. They use it for either ways which benefit them. However, if you use it for both ways, that means it is just a tool to deceive. After complaining about my poor result, the doctor used this. He said there is number 2 circled on my paper. Dr. Edmond Griffin uses all those lists for excuses when the surgery turns out to be bad. He can just say, "look at this paper. It says addtional sessions may be needed." He can make excuses for recommending less grafts for additional surgeries, because he has a high base price for additional money. And when the surgery turns out to be bad, he can say, "hair loss is progressive and unpredictable. So you lost more of your natural hair." Waiting for the result was a long time. I frequently checked photos on this website to expect what kind of result I get. Then I read many forum posts and decided that it is best to start taking prevention. Because some doctors blamed on not taking prevention, so I didn't want any possible excuses. So I started using minoxidil after one month. [Week 1] The pain wasn't bad. I shampooed my hair gently. No swelling. After one week, the stitches are removed. [Week 3] The transplanted hair started to fall out. Around 40 percent of transplanted fell out. [month 1] Almost all transplanted hair had fallen out. Most of the transplanted hair that didn't fall out was in my crown area. I had a shock loss. I felt like I had less hair than before. [month 2] Nothing has changed much in appearance. Very little pain. Maybe shock loss has been stopped. I still have redness. Most of transplanted hair on my crown area didn't fall out at all. [month 3] I started to see a little growth on my hairline. The pain is almost gone. [month 4] I started to see more growth on my hairline, but I couldn't figure out if other parts have grown. At this stage, I have recovered from the shock loss and I look like myself before the surgery. The pain is gone, but I still have redness. [month 5] More growth on my hairline, but I can't still see growth on other areas. The redness is almost gone. [month 6] More growth on my hairline. Density on my hairline is still low, but I don't know if it is the final result for my hairline. I don't see new growth on other areas. I can still feel thick small transplanted grafts on my crown area. It didn't fall or grow at all. The redness is completely gone finally. [6.5 months post-op] I got a mail from the clinic to make a schedule for follow up check. I called them and told them during the follow up, I want to know the total graft number and where they have been placed in detail. The clinic said it will be only 5 minutes check up. And it was lietally 5 minutes check up! I told the doctor the hairline has been grown up, but there is still no sign of growth on my top and crown area. The doctor said the crown area will start growing slower than other area and he will do detailed follow up for one year follow up. [months 6 to one year] The result looks as same as month 6. I can still feel a dozen of thick small transplanted grafts on my crown area. By its look, less than half of transplanted hair has been grown. [One year post-op] The result was very poor, so I was wondering what would be their reaction. First, they took comparison photos and showed them to me. While preparing to take photos, their assistant said he doesn't know why the light is darker than before in the room. Later, when he was brushing my hair, he said he doesn't know which way to brush my hair to match my pre-op hairstyle. I was amazed that they really decided to go that way. They did the comb over and took result photos! And their acting was so stupid. I don't know how they think it would work. He doesn't know how to brush hair? Just wow... This already told me three things: 1) The result is poor. 2) They are trying to hide the poor result from me. 3) They are extremely stupid enough to think that I am stupid. One thing I asked him before getting result photos was a total graft number and their placement chart, so I will have better understanding of the result. But the assistant said he only has total graft number now and the doctor has placement chart. I got the total graft number and asked for the placement chart. He went out to get photo results and came back. He said Dr. Edmond Griffin doesn't have placement chart because he places grafts and decide how much it is needed on certain places during the surgery. It is obviously a lie, because this assistant assists during the actual surgery, and he should know exactly how he does. Plus, six months ago, they told me I am going to get those details during one year post-op. They just didn't want to show it to me because they were afraid that I will get a better understanding of the result. The assistant showed it to me and told me only good things about the result. This was expected after him showing me those photos. Then he asked me if I am on any prevention medicine. I have been using minoxidil for 11 months, but I needed them to tell the truth about the result being bad. Because if I say I was using minoxidil, they will continue saying the result is good. So I said I am not taking any prevention medicine at all. The assistant started talking about the importance of prevention medicine. Later, the doctor came in. He just glanced at my hair. He didn't touch my hair at all! He didn't say anything about the result. He kept taking about the importance of prevention medicine. I told them what I told them during the initial consultation that my plan was to take preventions after seeing the full result of the hair surgery. The doctor and the assistant both kept talking about they can't believe I didn't take any prevention medicine (the doctor even forgot what I told him during the initial consultation. If they couldn't believe it, why did they agree with that choice during the initial consultation? It is obviously because of money). However the doctor wasn't talking about my result. They were waiting for my reaction first. I am a very calm person, and I know what they are trying to accomplish. Finally, they asked me if I am satisfied with my result. I said no. Now they started telling me about the bad result. The doctor said because I didn't take any prevention medicine, there is almost no difference between my pre-op and post-op comparison. They asked me if I am going to start taking prevention now. That was one of my choices from the start. The doctor recommended me dutasteride. What? During the initial consultation, he recommended me finasteride and minoxidil. I said I am planning to take finasteride. Then, they talked about possible side effects of finasteride (they made it sound like it is not uncommon. But during the initial consultation, they made it sound like side effects are rare. Now the surgery is already over, they are talking like this?). The doctor said he is taking dutasteride himself (what? He said he was taking finasteride himself during the initial consultation). He also said his son took finasteride and got side effects. What a liar. Anyway, I got a prescription of finasteride. They asked me if I have other questions. I said no, and the doctor left. He didn't even touch my hair for evaluation, and he was so certain that his transplanted hairs grew, and I lost my native hair from not taking preventions. After the doctor left, I asked the assistant to check my crown. I told him I have a dozen of transplanted hair that hasn't fallen or grown at all, and I also told him I have some ingrown hair. The doctor didn't even touch my hair, so he had no idea about it. The assistant used numbing cream and fixed a few ingrown hair. He said I have several different lengths of hair on my crown like it is okay... obviously. I just acted like I am agreeing with them until I left the clinic, because my plan was to talk to them using email for the hard proofs. I told them everything on emails how much I know about this incident. The assistant and the doctor just kept making excuses that it was my fault and not even making counterargument for most points that I have made.
  14. [Petchski] I really appreciate your input on this matter. But you forgot important things. The thread's title is "FUT 2300 grafts - 8.5 months." But this thread was started 4.5 months ago. I actually met the doctor for 1 year checkup as I said. This is my 13th month. I don't think you actually read my posts well. And did you read that the doctor didn't touch my hair at all during that 12 months checkup? And do you think the blame game isn't going to change anything? I am sharing my experience here for people to know. And if you think doctors can get away with this, I don't know what to say to you. Maybe you didn't read my new post I shared yesterday at all, and you just read my post written 4.5 months ago.
  15. Maybe the reason you said the result is okay is because my hair is 2 months longer. This is why I decided to talk to Dr. Edmond Griffin on email rather than on person, so there is an actual proof of what he said. These are the quotes: Dr. Griffin: "One thing that is loud and clear about male patterned baldness is that it is progressive and unpredictable. This was both both explained to you verbally and given to you in writing on the first page of your consultation sheet: “HAIR LOSS IS PROGRESSIVE AND UNPREDICTABLE”. Without a good preventative program, in one year you could easily loose the same number of hairs that was transplanted; sometimes even more. On your initial consultation visit, we stressed the importance of using either oral or topical finasteride-containing medications to help combat this progression of baldness. Therefore, it is not surprising for you to think you had poor growth. The problem is not the lack of growth or lack of results from the transplant. The truth lies in lack of your following a good prevention program which was stressed to you at every visit to my office." But he keeps ignoring my comment: Me: "I told him my choice is to do the surgery and see the complete result first and start taking prevention, because it will be hard to tell if the surgery was successful or the prevention made it look like that. The doctor said it is recommended to do both. I told him that was my choice since my hair loss is very gradual that I am willing to wait for one year and start taking prevention after. I also told him if I start taking prevention now, there is no point of taking surgery now, and I will see the result of taking prevention medicines first. And you also know why the doctor didn't go for taking prevention medicines first." Me: "Second, I am saying this one more time. During the initial consultation, I told you my choice is to either do the surgery and take prevention after seeing the final result, or don't do the surgery and take prevention only to see the result first. You chose to do the surgery, and now you are telling me that you kept asking me to take prevention before and after the surgery?" We both agree that I have a poor result. However, our argument is about what is the reason and who is to blame. Basically his argument is: 1) The grafts I transplanted are successfully grown. 2) You didn't take Finasteride, and Minoxidil can't acquire the result of Finasteride. and my argument is: 1) You didn't touch my hair during post-op. 2) It was your choice to do the surgery when I said if I take a surgery I will wait for a year before I take prevention medicine. He has never made a counterargument of me saying starting a surgery was his decision. Isn't it an enough proof that the fact I said is true?