Shadow of the EMpire State

The yield looks OK, but conceptually, I don't understand this transplant.

Obvious improvement. That it's only five months out makes it even more impressive. Still, there still seems to be some pronounced redness in the recipient area. How long does this typically last? Can it be permanent? How can it be treated? For all my research, I've sorta ignored redness, thinking it was a minor issue. But lately, I'm starting to wonder.

Prefer the Turkish results.

Not especially impressive thus far.

Pretty much. When I first noticed that I'd lost an inch off my temples back in 2003 at age 26, I panicked. I figured I'd be bald by 30. But it never happened. I mean, yes, I've had some more thinning over the last 10 years, so the situation *has* gotten worse, but the progression has slowed down a lot. And I never took any medication. In regard to surgery, I always knew that I'd get my hairline fixed, but I never wanted any half-measures. I didn't want the kind of procedure that makes a guy go from bald to just balding. So basically, my position was, "Norwood 1 or nothing." And that approach meant that I wasn't going to get anything done in my 20s. After all, I knew that the risk of building a NW1 hairline at 27 was significant. So I decided to wait to 30. Then I got to 30, and I decided to wait another five years. Well, I turned 36 last month, and I've been holding steady, so I think that I may have "beaten" MPB. Again, I know that I'll lose more, but I'm confident that I won't lose enough to make me regret an aggressive hairline.

Checked. Can't do it. All the flights offered by Lufthansa are actually operated by Turkish commuter airlines, which I absolutely will not fly. I have to admit: I'm pretty pissed that I don't have better domestic options. Ugh.

Yeah, that's pretty close to true. I didn't notice my hairloss until I was almost 26, midway through 2003. I kept getting what I thought were lousy haircuts. Then, one day, I pulled my hair back and nearly dropped dead. I'd lost an inch off both temples, and I totally panicked. That sort of thing wasn't supposed to happen to me! Now, of course, it's slowly gotten worse over the last 10 years, but it's been very gradual. I've never taken any medication at all, and I'm a NW3 at worst. Nevertheless, I do have to use an unflattering hairstyle that I dislike (long in front to cover hairline), and it's even getting harder to pull that off. At 36, I feel that I'm probably out of the woods in terms of advancing to a NW6, so I feel much safer about going forward.

Well, that's for a number of reasons. First, I'm a lawyer, so my schedule is brutal. Second, if anyone found out about this, I'd be a laughingstock. Third, I'm extremely risk-averse as a general rule. All of those have counseled caution. The way I see it, as a 36-year-old late-stage NW2 or early NW3 who's never used hair-loss medication, I'm in pretty good straits. But now I have to get this right.

After 10 years of research, I want to do some FUE work. Problem is, I'm not overwhelmed by my North American options. Neither the results nor the prices leave me enthused, so I'm considering Doganay, but Turkey worries me for two reasons. First, I won't blend in. I'm pale, 6'3", and obviously American. Second, it seems difficult to reach Antalya. I should mention that I'm an extremely nervous flyer. In fact, I haven't flown in decades because of my fear, so I'll only fly major western carriers. Anyone have any experience being a westerner in Turkey? Is it safe? What about getting to Antalya? Can I get there without traveling the countryside or taking an unsafe airline?

Well, they may be acceptable to you, but in my experience, they're not acceptable to most people whom we meet on our travels. Now I suppose that personal happiness is paramount, but if it comes only by ignoring reality, I'll pass. Have you ever seen a guy wearing a terrible, obvious rug? I have. And every time I see one, I think, "My God, does he actually think this looks good? Doesn't he realize how ridiculous he looks and that people are laughing at him?" And then I stop and realize that the obvious answer is "no." After all, if he realized that, he wouldn't be wearing a terrible rug. So yes, there are some people who think that high-Norwood transplants look good, but in my opinion, they're prisoners to their own denial. Now, as I said, there are exceptions. The early H&W guys come to mind. But they're few. Nine out of 10? The hair-transplant satisfaction rate isn't 90 percent even on Norwood 2s and 3s, let alone people beyond Norwood 4. Respectfully, there's significant evidence of it on this forum. Of course, there's nothing to be gained by telling someone that he has a bad result, so it's not often pointed out. But it's there. Worse still, the actual incidence of bad results tends to be underreported in online forums because, as a general rule, people tend not to post pictures of bad results. "[A]s natural-looking as possible." Well, either it looks natural or it doesn't. It's not really a question of degree. It's like being pregnant: either you are, or you're not. If the transplant doesn't look good enough to fool the vast majority of people, then it's bad, the surgeon's best efforts notwithstanding. If it's recognizable as a transplant---and most high-Norwood cases are---then yes, it's very bad.

Who said anything about whether he should be "allowed" to get a hair transplant? This isn't Stalinist Russia; he should be allowed to undergo any procedure he chooses. But do I think hair transplants produce cosmetically acceptable results for the majority of high-Norwood cases? No, I don't. Do I think that the inherent limitations of hair transplantation should dissuade most high-Norwood people from getting transplants? Yes, I do. Do I think some men wind up making themselves look ridiculous because they're unable to face reality? Absolutely. I certainly think that nearly everyone expects to have an undetectable result. Are you actually suggesting to me that you would accept a result that's immediately recognizable to strangers as a transplant?

You may find it preposterous, but respectfully, it's a truth brick through your fantasy window. I started on hair forums in 2003, and I've been on this site for several years. In that time, I've seen thousands and thousands of hair-transplant pictures; probably a hundred videos or so; and several in-person examples. And the truth is that once you go beyond NW4, the likelihood of achieving a non-detectable, cosmetically acceptable result (as measured by prevailing social standards) is low. Admittedly, there have been a few extraordinary results like those achieved by the early H&W guys, but they're few and far between. Most people beyond NW4 simply do not have the combination of available grafts, hair characteristics, scalp laxity, etc., to produce a good result.

Perhaps not, but it's infinitely less absurd than walking around with an obvious, gauze-thin transplant on your head. And that's precisely what tends to happen with patients who are beyond NW4. Remember: bald may not be attractive, but it's not weird. A bad transplant is both ugly and weird. And weird is so much worse.

Would like to see closeups of the entire scalp.

Excellent point. And quite correct, of course.

Photos don't make transplants look worse; they make them look better---in some cases, much better.

Respectfully, this is an obvious transplant. Not a good result, in my opinion.

Respectfully, these reports are rubbish. There's another one every week.

Holy hell. After all these years, I forgot how screwed you really were---or appeared to be. Your transformation has been kind of incredible.

You need a repair specialist. If money is an issue, Turkey is your destination. Doganay, Erdogan, Keser. Cases like this are why doing research before surgery is so important. Anyone who reads this forum for more than a week will come away knowing that MHR is a disgrace and that getting a transplant at 22 can have disastrous results.

Not believably, no. In my considered opinion, people in the NW 5-7 classes should not get hair transplants. In the vast majority of cases, there just isn't enough hair to produce a credible result. If and when cloning becomes reality, you'll have a realistic option.

It's usually about double the price, but there are some excellent lower-priced FUE options available.

Both FUE and FUSS (a better, more-accurate name for FUT) are "hair transplants." FUSS (follicular-unit strip surgery) cuts out a section of the back of your head and then implants those follicles in the recipient area. FUE (follicular-unit extraction) pulls individual follicles out of the back of your head with a tweezer and removes them to the recipient area one at a time and without removing a section of your scalp.

The hairline doesn't look normal when the hair's pulled back, but the haircut you've chosen hides it completely and believably. On the whole, it looks good. If you wanted to expose the hairline, you might need some more work in the first centimeter.

But it's listed as a strip result on his web site. Results Album | AHD Clinic