iiieee

Hi Guys, Does anyone have any experience with the generic MonoxidilMax? I'm about to try their 10 or 15% minoxidil solutions, so it would be great to hear from someone who's done it. Appreciated, thanks, iiieee

Hi guys, I was doing some forum reading some weeks back in reference to generic rogaine. There was some healthy skepticism and suggestions there, particularly with regard to price point. Essentially, the takeaway point was, you get what you pay for and someone offered a reliable source from over seas--I believe it was India. The prices there were more in line with prices in the US and they even had a 10% rogaine solution. Can anyone confirm this or, perhaps, offer any other suggestions? Much appreciated, iiieee

Hi Vince, Ok, well, your response is interesting, indeed. And, I have to stress that I really feel your frustration, this really sucks--you just can't be sure what the hell is going on. First, let me reiterate that there is no one on this site that has as much experience with these drugs as I do. I see a lot of remarks that just make me shake my head and feel sorry. . . The problem you're having, in essence, is that you can't make adjustments to your game and then stick your head out the window to see if it's working to establish cause and effect, because you're trying to affect a cycle that takes months to give you feedback. It's very tricky to keep a level head and make decisions under such conditions and the fact that you are using more than one drug and working out of misinformation about one of them (not to mention, ignoring possible drug interactions--that I have described) is making it, quite literally, impossible! (Experimental method demands that all extraneous variables be held constant in order to establish cause and effect, between x and y--your hair loss and a single drug!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) . . . The reason I say that Rogaine 2% and finasteride are the same is for the following reason: When I started using finasteride,1997, it was not yet available on the market here in Canada. I had gone to visit a cosmetic surgeon to see about having a scar fixed and I told him that I had been using Rogaine (the scar was on my head). He told me about Proscar (I know, its hard to believe, I was seeing him about a scar . . . and he told me about Proscar; life is stranger than fiction) or finasteride, saying that he could prescribe it anyway (under the guise of prostate medication) and that I could switch from Rogaine (2%) to finasteride from one day to the next, seamlessly; in other words, one would take over for the other and there would be absolutely no change in my hair density. He said that a number of his patients had done that successfully, and so, then, did I. (Of course it was a great relief to just swallow a pill instead of, well, you know what . . .) Anyway, the corollary is, these two medications probably act the same way, because they produce exactly the same results . . . But, there's more: Years later, I needed to switch back to Rogaine (because I'd contracted an intestinal parasite known as Giardia Lamblia--bitch!...it caused me gastric distress that made me think the finasteride was causing the pain). I was worried shitless about having to switch back, even though I already knew it was safe to go the other way (from rogaine to fin) because, after using finasteride for a number of years in addition to my gains with rogaine, I had a lot to lose, and I was in a long term relationship with a girl that was, of course, used to me looking a certain way--talk about trepidation!! So, I got on the case and did my homework; I interviewed at least three different pharmacists and one in particular (an empathetic female) that went all the way for me--she really did some research, took her several days. Finally, she came back, very self-assured, to tell me that Rogaine and Finasteride work on the same principal, by converting DHT . . . Eventually, my gastric distress became so worrisome (before I discovered the parasite) that I made the switch, and it was 100% successful, no change, at all, exactly the same! So, I'd switched, both ways, on sound professional counsel stating that the biology was the same, and(!) the results were identical!. . . That said, there is still some molecular bio. mystery about how Rogaine works, it may enlarge the hair follicle or have some other physiological effect, after all, 5% works better than 2% Rogaine (when 5% was introduced, they claimed 45% more hair, over 2%--I still have a copy of the brochure/pamphlet that came with the package). And, it does--I've seen it for myself! (After a number of screw-ups, and stops and starts--such as you are now experiencing--when the the 2% didn't work so well, anymore, I switched to 5% and I got all my hair back, again, in 2000--after 17 years of serious hair loss!! (The 2% can only achieve this up to 10 years) In fact, they stopped producing the 2% (it's only available for women, now) because it produces the same results as Propecia--and Propecia is just so easy to administer, so why keep on producing the 2%? So, let me get to what I think your problem is . . . firstly, it's obvious from you photos that something is going wrong; there's no way you should have lost that much hair just because the drugs have started to take affect . . . I think you are experiencing drug protocol failure. You said yourself that it was starting to work and then the successes began to reverse. Ok, I'm taking that as fact; you know what is happening to you, no one else can tell you that! But, now, instead of looking for your mistake, finding it, and making the correct adjustments, you are panicking and adding more complications that will blur your results (you won't know what to attribute your success or failures to and could even make things worse, permanently--as I've already described). Imagine how frustrated you'll be 7 months from now! And, what then? Wait another 7, going through more trial and error, and money for much less than nothing?! . . . You need to get your shirt together, now!! Ok, so here's my advice, phase I: 1. I need to know the least amount of time you've allowed before going outside after applying the Rogaine (that is critical to its use, especially 5%--I, myself, went through a phase where I thought it wasn't working anymore, shedding, only to find out that it started to work again after placing monastic restrictions on how soon I would go out after applying). Doesn't matter whether its your first or second application of the day, and you only have to make that mistake (or any other) once to screw yourself for 7 months of I don't know what the hell happened?! (And, here's another news flash, you only have to apply it once a day--that's all I've ever done--except in the beginning, when their advertising had me psyched. In fact, it was my original dermatologist, Dr. Rudy, Ottawa, who told me that). Phase II: 1. Stop doing the Finasride, now! Or it will turn into the FinastYride, later!! 2. Stop doing the Rogaine--a day or two later, just to be safe (remember what I told you about the two of those together!) 3. Then resume the 1mg Propecia (not 5mg Proscar, cut in half or quartered--if you want to know why ask). Don't worry about losing results or any further losses just because you already started the Finasteride; it's already a total loss because they work on the same molecular bio. principal! (And, isn't that what you and your pictures are saying?!) 4. Stop worrying, this will take, at least, 7 months to come under control, but will definitely do a hell of a job in the end, because you've only been losing your hair for about 6 years--remember the time limit for (potentially) 100% results is 10 years. This will eliminate the possibility that your Rogaine application is faulty (because the drug is now in you, instead of on you), not to mention the agony of applying it. It will obviate any drug interactions and allow you to use the scientific method to answer your own questions with clarity and certainty! One step at a time! It will protect your general health and free your hands to play with your girlfriend--who, then, won't have to wonder what you're doing in the bathroom for so long, twice a day!!(Just the fact that it will allow you to walk in the rain, go swimming, camping and exercise is worth it) And, it will save you money! Okay, Vince, now picture this: Terminator II, Arnold has just peeled the skin off his bionic hand and is talking to the quack that hooked-up Skynet to become self aware: Listen to me! . . . I have taken into consideration that we are different people, experiencing different rates of hair loss, but the drugs we are talking about are the same! The biochemical pathways we are talking about are the same! But, my experience is completely out of your league; I have had my ups and downs with all of this stuff for 21 years, and, I would be bald, right now, as I nearly was when I screwed up the Rogaine protocol by going outside too soon after applying! But, instead, I have a nearly full head of hair!!. . . You are panicking! Stay calm, time is on your side and there are plenty of options open to you. You need to be rational and patient. And, by all means take lessons from those who have fallen along the way and got up to there feet, again. I know it seems like a guessing game, but you can't guess wrong and fall into the same hole if someone else whose been there is willing to share their experience! Use the Force, Vince . . . Take the steps, Phase I and Phase II . . . Be healthy, be outside, get wet--no sweat! iiieee (School of Psychology, Ottawa University)

Hi Vince, I just saw my post, the one I thought I lost in the ether, and your reply. . . So, looks like, we've had a couple of misunderstandings and we need to find a common language. Also, after rereading what I wrote, I can see that I must have been tired after work--a couple of typos there. . . Anyway, because I didn't think it was posted, I wrote another one, more concise, posted it (successfully) and filed it on my computer. That should help clear up some of the misunderstandings and questions . . . I've got to get ready for work, again, but let me leave you with this: there's no way that rogaine could be making your situation worse, it does what it does biochemically and that can only help . . . okay, let me get back to you after . . . In the meantime, make sure you read my last post (written today) and if you stop one or the other, make sure you stop the finasteride first!! iiieee

Hi vince, I actually wrote you a fairly detailed report that day after work, but I've been having some difficulty with the functionality of this site. It took me about an hour to write but when I tried to send it it got lost--something about duplicate headings or something... I'll just give you a point form version of the most important part, that way I can hedge my bets against time: -I see a lot of talk about using rogaine extra strength and propecia together on this site, I've had some bad experience with this, let me explain . . . when I did this I had great difficulty getting the rogaine through my hair onto my scalp, so I eventually wound-up missing an area over my left side (I was making parts in my hair and filling them with drops of 5% solution...)--In due time (about 2.5 months), I got all of my hair back(!) and then, about a week or 2 later, the hair in that missed area shed, so I was "lop-sided"--anyway, I stopped the finasteride (a bit frustrated and depressed, of course) and persisted with the 5% rogaine for about another 3 months (to see if the "damaged" area would come back)--it didn't, and not only that but when I then switched to finasteride, by itself, lost some hair from both sides and things evened out, a bit (since finasteride is only equivalent in strength to, roughly, the affect of the old 2% rogaine--before the invention of 5% rogaine), the damaged area was still visible! . . . So, in layman's terms, I reasoned that with the minoxidil and finasteride working together, the vasodialating affect of the minoxidil would allow the finasteride to reach areas it would not otherwise get into, and so, when the minoxidil was no longer present (and the vessels or vesicles returned to their normal diameter) the finasteride was trapped in these areas, causing damage. . . Okay, that's not a very sound molecular biological argument, a bit specious--but it is a good way to think of it, in the sense that it provides a mnemonic, of sorts, by which to visualize and remember that there is a drug interaction taking place there . . . -So, you might imagine, even if you never miss a spot, how this would affect the boarders of your 5% coverage; you're not spreading rogaine over your entire head, probably just the top (by the looks of your photos)--and so what happens as you apply it to slightly more or less area each time(!)--think of it in terms of what I just told you!! Ok, I'm going to try to post this for you (and everyone else that's doing the same thing) . . . see if I can do this before I waste any more time . . .If I'm successful I'm going to write another one either now or after work . . . YOU WILL NEED TO READ THAT ONE, TOO, BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING SOME OTHER IMPORTANT MISTAKES, AND I THINK I KNOW WHY YOU'RE NOT MAKING PROGRESS--I covered this topic first because it is, in my view, a serious health issue. . . and(!), if you are using 5% extra strength rogaine, by itself, you should see full results in no longer than 3-4 months (even if you stop and start); 2% and finasteride take about 3 months from a "clean" start, and 6-7 months if you "stop and start". So, it's my opinion that you are right; there is something amiss--you did write in for a reason, didn't you?! In the meantime I would like to know how long it’s been since you started losing your hair. iiieee

Hi vince, I actually wrote you a fairly detailed report that day after work, but I've been having some difficulty with the functionality of this site. It took me about an hour to write but when I tried to send it it got lost--something about duplicate headings or something... I'll just give you a point form version of the most important part, that way I can hedge my bets against time: -I see a lot of talk about using rogaine extra strength and propecia together on this site, I've had some bad experience with this, let me explain . . . when I did this I had great difficulty getting the rogaine through my hair onto my scalp, so I eventually wound-up missing an area over my left side (I was making parts in my hair and filling them with drops of 5% solution...)--In due time (about 2.5 months), I got all of my hair back(!) and then, about a week or 2 later, the hair in that missed area shed, so I was "lop-sided"--anyway, I stopped the finasteride (a bit frustrated and depressed, of course) and persisted with the 5% rogaine for about another 3 months (to see if the "damaged" area would come back)--it didn't, and not only that but when I then switched to finasteride, by itself, lost some hair from both sides and things evened out, a bit (since finasteride is only equivalent in strength to, roughly, the affect of the old 2% rogaine--before the invention of 5% rogaine), the damaged area was still visible! . . . So, in layman's terms, I reasoned that with the minoxidil and finasteride working together, the vasodialating affect of the minoxidil would allow the finasteride to reach areas it would not otherwise get into, and so, when the minoxidil was no longer present (and the vessels or vesicles returned to their normal diameter) the finasteride was trapped in these areas, causing damage. . . Okay, that's not a very sound molecular biological argument, a bit specious--but it is a good way to think of it, in the sense that it provides a mnemonic, of sorts, by which to visualize and remember that there is a drug interaction taking place there . . . -So, you might imagine, even if you never miss a spot, how this would affect the boarders of your 5% coverage; you're not spreading rogaine over your entire head, probably just the top (by the looks of your photos)--and so what happens as you apply it to slightly more or less area each time(!)--think of it in terms of what I just told you!! Ok, I'm going to try to post this for you (and everyone else that's doing the same thing) . . . see if I can do this before I waste any more time . . .If I'm successful I'm going to write another one either now or after work . . . YOU WILL NEED TO READ THAT ONE, TOO, BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING SOME OTHER IMPORTANT MISTAKES, AND I THINK I KNOW WHY YOU'RE NOT MAKING PROGRESS--I covered this topic first because it is, in my view, a serious health issue. . . and(!), if you are using 5% extra strength rogaine, by itself, you should see full results in no longer than 3-4 months (even if you stop and start); 2% and finasteride take about 3 months from a "clean" start, and 6-7 months if you "stop and start". So, it's my opinion that you are right; there is something amiss--you did write in for a reason, didn't you?! In the meantime, I would like to know how long it's been since you started losing your hair. iiieee

I used to do proscar and the advice I was given by the pharmacist was to half it. The reason is that during the drugs manufacture the materials that go into the composition of the tablet are not necessarily homogeneous throughout. So, even if you cut the pill in half you still might get one half that has l.5-2 ml and the other at 3.5-3 ml of active ingredient. And so, if you quarter it you're taking the risk of not getting enough medicine to do the job! And, besides quartering is too tricky and the pill cutter wasn't designed to do that, anyway. So, half it for now, that's your best bet for the long run. For the longer run, when you can afford it get down to propecia--smaller more accurate dosage--less health rise--most important, your health. too risky, too messy, iiieee

ok, i'm back... Hi vince, Again,sorry to hear things are getting worse, that sucks when you're trying so hard--and spending good money... So, as per my advice...I've used Finasteride and Rogaine, at different times and together (for about 2 months) since 1993. There's something you should know about using these two agents together. But first, we should address the lack of results you've met with Rogaine--since that's what you started with. . . If you've been losing your hair for less than 10 years and you apply Rogaine properly you should get most, if not all, of your hair back--just as it was before you started losing your hair. When I first started using Rogaine (regular 2%, not the new 5%), 1993, I had been losing my hair for nine years, I had lost a lot of hair (from all over) and my hairline was just beginning to recede. After about 3 months my hair started to come back huge (even sooner, I think). But I was interrupted (by "life") and had to restart so it took another 7 months before the retardation of stopping was overcome, and I got it ALL back (as you should know when you stop treatment and restart it takes a lot longer to see results then if you continue from the start without interruption--and if you stop and start after the 10 yr mark (of hair loss) you won't be able to get it all back, the way it was before loss started). So, it's very important that you do it right, from the start, and it sounds like you're not, or you would definitely have seen obvious results....Now, let's cut back to the finasteride question before i tell you what is likely wrong with your rogaine routine. This, again, is out of experience. I started using extra strength 5% rogaine in 2001 (long story between 1993 and 2001) with finasteride, thinking that the two would work better together, but soon saw that there was a problem. I had a great deal of difficulty getting the rogaine through my hair (which was long then) and on to my scalp and became so frustrated because so much of it just made an oily mess with my hair ,as it became thicker and thicker, that I became a little careless (or unsure) and missed an area on the left side of my head. And, this is when I found out that finasteride and rogaine should not be used together!...One month later I lost a whole bunch of hair from the left side of my head (where I missed a spot in the application a month earlier) and I have never been able to grow it back evenly with the other side of my head! (Anyway, no need to feel bad for me, when I cut my hair short, brush cut, you could barely tell--I would have to point it out). So, I know that using both (5% and fin.) can be detrimental; if the 5% rogaine fails--or you miss a spot--it will leave a mark!! Therefore it is dangerous to use both, when you are unsure of how well the rogaine is working--or how well it is being applied. And, if I remember correctly, either rogaine or propecia warns they are to be used alone. (After that I just used the finasteride--even though the 5% gave me a FULL head of hair again--because after the application with 5% my hair was a greasy mess, it only looked good just after washing, before the application). So, stop using the finasteride, now, and focus on doing the rogaine correctly. Again, from experience...When I restarted 5% rogaine in 2006 (another long story) I was surprised that it didn't give me any better results than the finasteride I'd just switched from until I discovered my mistake. After a few years, I rethought how I had been doing it and the results I'd had not long before with 2% or finasteride (which are the same and can be interchanged) and realized that I wasn't waiting long enough, after applying the 5% solution, before going outside. From the time I had this epiphany I reckoned it would take about 3 months for the turn around (half the time for 2% or finasteride). And, I was right, it came back strong, and so, since then I have always waited at least 2.5 hours before going outside after an application. They both work on the same biochem principal, anyway, and, in fact, the 5% rogaine works way better finasteride. And adding something to something that isn't working doesn't even make common sense, it just clouds the issue--eg. what will you do if it starts working after the addition of finasteride, will you attribute the success to the combination of the two and use them both for life?? Think of the the expense and the risk! (not to mention the added strain to you body's systems). ok, got to go for now...just concentrate on doing the 5% correctly, and don't be shy about asking me a question, iiieee

Hi vince, I have something important to tell you that is:) sure to help, but I've got to go to work, first. I've used both of those products with many ups and downs, so, hang in there and I'll get back to you after work and we'll try to smooth out the ride for you! Sympathies, iiieee

Hello abcd0000, Also, to be 100% sure just buy a bottle of women's rogaine; that's 2% minoxidil. Then pour them both out into a glass bowl, side by side, use the applicator to inspect them. The 5% should be quite noticeably thicker or oilier. . . That's the sure way. And, to answer your question, I've been pouring my product into a glass bowl before I use for about a year (to check for any crystallization). So, no wonder I'm the first to say anything, I noticed immediately upon pouring it out...I had five boxes like that; I checked them all. Also, I've just received a pre-mailer from McNeil to send back to them with these no good bottles for testing. stay in touch, iiieee

Hello abcd0000,. Thank-you for answering, sorry if I took to long getting back. . . I don't know if you have a problem with your supply, I hope not!. But it's important that you check it to see if it looks, smells and acts (applies) like what you are used to--if you're not sure, use the rough guide in my first post (ex. 2% smells strongly of alcohol, clear, watery and spreads over the scalp and through hair easier than 5%). If you're still unsure get back to me and I can help you . . . The best we can do is for you to tell me the expiry dates on your box (bottom) or bottle. If it's older then my shipments from Buffalo and Ogdensburg (further/later expiry dates) and good (actual 5%) we can hope it is a mistake they've corrected "further down the line". And if that's true we both should be okay . . . SO, THE IMPORTANT THING IS FOR YOU TO: 1. CHECK AND MAKE SURE 2. MESSAGE ME BACK WITH THE DETAILS, INCLUDING THE EXPIRY DATE AND LOT NUMBER (BOTH ON BOTTOM OF BOX AND BOTTLE) . . . 3. THAT WAY I CAN COMPARE IT TO MY PRODUCT INFO AND WE WILL KNOW (HOPEFULLY) FOR SURE IF THEY HAVE CAUGHT THE MISTAKE AND (HOPEFULLY) CORRECTED IT!! Anxiously awaiting your reply, iiieee:mad:

I recently received shipments of ROGAINE EXTRA STRENGTH from Buffalo and Ogdensburg, New York, Rite Aid and Walmart Pharmacies that were NOT 5% MINOXIDIL BUT ACTUALLY 2% (WOMEN'S) ROGAINE IN 5% EXTRA STRENGTH ROGAINE PACKAGING!!!. THIS IS A WARNING TO ANYONE LIVING IN THOSE AREAS USING ROGAINE EXTRA STRENGTH!! It is easy to tell the difference if you are familiar with the product and have been using it for a while. The 5% solution is more viscous than the 2%, it flows thicker than 2%, in fact, it is quite obvious when you compare the two. But, if you don't know the difference and haven't used the now obsolete 2% Rogaine (which they stopped producing after the arrival of Propecia) you should still be able to tell when you apply it to the scalp; the 5% is (as anyone knows who uses it) much more difficult to spread over the scalp with longer hair or even very short hair. This, again, is due to the higher viscosity (greater "thickness") of the 5% solution (as well as the higher ratio of alcohol in the 2% which has a cooling affect as it evaporates from the surface of the scalp--thus giving you a sense of where it has been applied). It is very easy to recognize the difference between the two, with the 2% solution's pungent smell of ethanol and crystal clear, watery (by comparison) appearance! I sincerely hope this averts disaster for anyone who unfortunately has come upon this $^#^&! And if you have, please let me know. Also, make sure to call their number, rogaine.com, 1-800-764-2463, and tell them!!!!!!!!! In the meantime I've been running a dehumidifier over open glass bowls of the 2% "stuff" to reduce its volume and increase the concentration. If you want instruction on how to do this (especially in humid areas) let me know and I can advise. :mad: