iiieee

I don’t think that Finasteride is a drug whose effectiveness is heightened with increased dosage in the sense that recreational drugs or Minoxidil are. I believe--and I think the forum posts in which users describe reduced dosages, generics, pill cutting and herbal substitutes—reflect an almost “threshold” type of effect. In other words, it just takes such a small amount of drug to cover the receptor sites involved that any gradual or graded result is burdened by physical barriers (i.e. the miniscule amounts involved), and the desired result is then (seemingly) either achieved or it isn’t. . . Unfortunately, I don’t see anyone saying that they’ve transitioned from using herbals, to generics, to Propecia; they seem to be stuck on the most expensive/advertised treatment first because they panic when they first start to lose their hair and want to “pull out all the stops” to save it. Then they are afraid to try something cheaper (or more health conscious) because they know if it fails they will be starting back at the beginning with poorer results the second time if they have to switch back after an alternative fails. It only takes a couple of months to see if anti-androgen works; going the other way takes six months. The best anecdotal evidence/advise I can offer is from my own experience, stemming from a three year long Giardia Lamblia parasitic infection. The infection left me sensitive to a number of foods and meds, including Finasteride—which caused me mild (but troubling/disconcerting) kidney pain. So, you may say that I am the “canary in the coal mine”, and developing sensitivity like this I think points to the fact that Finasteride does, at least on some level, irritate the kidneys. Nevertheless, it forced me to stop using Finasteride and switch to Minoxidil, for ten years, until I found an herbal anti-androgen . . . And, as I’ve said elsewhere, the result has been so strong, whereas, you could tell before that I had sustained some thinning, now, my hair is an asset to my appearance, again—it doubled my re-growth and thickened the sides as well (where I don't apply Minoxidil). And, I’m only using one drug, once a day—all that is necessary with Minoxidil (the “twice a day” advertising is just drug manufacturer BS to get you to use twice as much—it only provides better results with higher concentrations) Doing it right the first time is of the utmost importance with these treatments:eek: ; what's most important, your health;) iiieee.

Srik, I think you're going to want to take your meds with you; you don't want to have to get off the plane and immediately go looking for a pharmacy without knowing for sure what you're in for. Obviously, you're worried about missing your tablet, screwing up the medication protocol and waiting six months for the Finasteride to start working again--not the way to start a new adventure. . . Take the pills and your prescription with you; I'm not even sure if you have to declare them, but if you do, they are yours and "here's my prescription". Then you can relax, enjoy your trip. . .and see if you can score something cheaper over there--but I wouldn't change brands for something made there; I've bought drugs from India and found the general quality and purity to be substandard.

The only way to be sure/safe is to start with the "questionable" product and then move to the brand name. . . Starting with herbal antiandrogen formulas made for benign prostatic hyperplasia--which one would expect to be less stressful on the liver and kidneys; what you would want to stay with in the long run for the betterment of your health (I developed a slight kidney sensitivity to finasteride when I stopped its use after about 3 years--a waste of time and potential hair recovery, in hair loss terms). Even if you started with the generic Finasteride you could still switch to brand if you didn't achieve full results and switch back if that didn't change anything without going through the six month shed/recovery (telogen/anagen) phase that would occur if you went the other way and lost, from brand to generic and back--that would take at least six months to recover, and less than what you would have had with the first trial of brand. But, herbal antiandrogen is the way to start. No prescription. I added it to my regiment last year with Minoxidil and went from not bad to full results after 32 yrs of hair loss. I considered trying finasteride again just because the herbal did work so well but I was confident I had done well--very well. I realize this may fall into the coulda-woulda-shoulda category with you but I suggest this based on the belief that herbal antiandrogen is equal to pharmaceutical and it may be your best bet for your overall health too. . .If you want to go this way the variety I'm using is Prairie Naturals, Prost Force, Prostate Support; I haven't tried any others, but I know this works.

Saurez, Check out this site about aspirin and other foods that may prevent hair loss via the prostaglandin system. It describes preparations that can be applied to the scalp: Body Health - Mind Health: Hair Loss Prevention. . . I was thinking though that aspirin may be helping your hair the same way it guards potential heart attack victims from heart attack, improving circulation by thinning the blood (or perhaps in both ways, including inhibition of pgd2). If you want to improve circulation to the periphery, including the hair follicle, perhaps you could use foods that perform this function the same way that aspirin does, such as, cayenne (capsicums). Or you could just use minoxidil--getting back to drugs that affect circulation.

1) 5yrs. 2) I was cutting 5mg Proscar tabs in half; since they aren't homogeneous, this brings the dose to anywhere from 1 to 4mg pre day (according to my pharmacist)--my doc gave them to me before it was made into a drug for hair loss (1998) 3) 58 4) no 5,6 N/A 7) I'm now using an herbal replacement for Finasteride, it's called: Praire Naturals, "Prost Force", Prostate Support Formula. This has been the single best discovery I've made in my epic hair recovery journey. Works the same way as Finasteride. And no drugs/no worries. Wish I would have known before; would be ridiculous for anyone to use Finasteride when you can use a herb that does same. . .Just make sure that you keep written account of time of dose!!...Or whatever you use will turn into FIN-NASTY-RIDE!! (It's easy to remember that you've done a capsule when you first start using, but when the days turn to weeks and months it's impossible without accounting.) . . .Also, if you decide to use this herb go with twice a day (every 12 hrs--exactly same time, everyday). I started with 3 times a day; it's working great, but now I'm stuck wondering if twice would have been enough--I think so.

:eek:The alcohol in Rogaine is a very serious topic of discussion that I have been addressing on this site since J & J began mislabelling their Men's Rogaine two years ago. The alcohol content has increased dramatically because they are putting 2% solution in 5% packaging, leaving more undiluted solvent, alcohol--this is a mislabelling fraud (that I am in the process of fighting with the FDA). Rogaine Extra Strength or any Minoxidil 5% solution should smell only moderately of alcohol because it has ethanol in it--all other alcohols are poisonous if taken internally (isopropyl is rubbing alcohol, used for injuries to the skin); ethanol is the alcohol in beer and spirits. So, whether or not it is okay for people with psoriasis would be a matter for your doctor and maybe a little trial and error. But, as one of my prescribing Doctors once remarked, it's clever that they were able to use alcohol as the solvent because if you ever get a cut or abrasion on your head--as most guys do, sooner or later--you can continue to apply it as it will aid in healing the wound (it's happened to me). But, most importantly, you need to find a good generic in place of the Rogaine, rip-off 5%--that's only been 2% Minoxidil in strength for the past two years. Your post leads me to speculate that is, at least, part of the reason you're asking about it's alcohol content! Do yourself a favour and read my posts describing this in more detail:11-13-2015, Real 5% American generic minoxidil Please; 11-12-2015, in answer to Rogaine foam vs Kirkland foam. And, propylene glycol is not alcohol; it's a diol, a compound containing two hydoxyl groups (OH), used in the food and medicine industries. It's added to many of the Minoxidil lotions to give the hair better manageability and the appearance of thickness. . .I don't know how that would effect your psoriasis, either. The last ingredient is purified water. (And, it should also be known to everyone who uses Minoxidil that it should be started with once a day treatment, same time, everyday, within an hour--that's usually enough. If your results don't bring you back to full then you can try twice a day. The twice a day crap is just to get you to use twice as much!) Mark

Wouldn't argue with that, superior logic. May the road rise before you.

Dave, I'm a long time user of Minoxidil (2% and 5%, 22 yrs.) and I'm curious about what you mean by looking and feeling like a zombie. Can you be more specific? Also, are you using any other treatment drugs, like Propecia?. . . If so, I think I may have some good suggestions to help you get away from the drugs and restore you hair line. . . I've recently started using herbal prostate support gel caps (I can give you the brand if interested) that worked huge in synergy with my Monoxidil treatment, even though I'm 58 and have been losing my hair since I was 26! And, then you could reduce your Minox to a 2% solution, once a day (I've never done it more than that). So that would drastically reduce your drug use, especially, if you were doing the 5% foam twice a day! (When I started the 5% liquid I used it once a day and that was enough to make me feel, as you put it, like a zombie). As for your hairline, here's a trick I discovered a couple of yrs ago. I noticed that after opening and closing my Rogaine bottles repeatedly they would start to crystalize a bit on the bottom. I began to set those aside because I noticed that the sides started to show up a little as I worked my way to the bottom of the bottle. Then I started applying these concentrated (now maybe 6%) remains just to my hairline, and I was really quite stunned to see the hair recover in this area. There's one catch, though, and that is to find real 5% Minoxidil; Rogaine 5% is really just 2% in 5% labelling (see some of my recent posts--Real 5% American generic minoxidil Please, 11/16/2015)--they started doing this about 2 yrs ago. I can instruct you on how to produce higher concentrations for use on your hairline very easily since I now do this methodically. It takes no effort as it's just evaporation (and you only need to raise the concentration a little), but it has to be done in the right atmospheric conditions. And of course you wouldn't need much, so again, you'll be cutting back on the poison. When I started to combine the herb with the Minoxidil, I reduced my Minoxidil concentration and the sides completely disappeared--so, I think I do know what you mean; it can be an unhealthy, disconcerting feeling. Mark

Okay, well, unfortunately, the first problem I have is that I can’t go out and inspect a bunch of different versions of the 5% Minoxidil because I live in Canada and we don’t have 5% lotion here—I’ve been getting it from American pharmacies that mail it to me, and I’ve been buying it off eBay. . .And thx for the suggestion, however, my doctor also suggested using the foam (as we do have the 5% foam available here) but I had to remind him of how I knew the lotion’s concentration was tampered with, in the first place—the obvious change in its physical characteristics (watery viscosity, dramatic increase in alcohol solvent smell, and absence of light amber color); if I were to switch over to the foam I would have no physical references to make any comparison! (When you see the full account of my discovery this will become clear and you will also see why it’s not just a change in consistency.) As I’ve been saying on the site, if they’re tampering with the liquid, who knows what’s in the foam?!! Johnson & Johnson, Rogaine have completely lost their credibility with me. They are fraudsters. So, this causes me concern about the credibility of other generic manufactures, as well, especially when they tout their product in comparison to Rogaine with statements on the label, such as, To Compare With Rogaine. This makes me wonder if they are aware of the mislabelling fraud, too, and taking advantage of it to lower their own standards. After all, isn’t Rogaine the premier brand? Wouldn’t they be keeping an eye on their main competitor? I would just have to think that at least some of them would be, especially brands like Kirkland, the cheapest of them all. They nearly give it away on eBay, and, it’s owned by Johnson & Johnson! I've noticed a few brands that carry this "To Compare With Rogaine" claim on their label. If it's true and it is the equal of 5% Rogaine Extra Strength, then it's not 5%, it's only 2% Minoxidil. Thank you for your encouragement, Bill. I, too, am eager to here from other users of generic 5% Minoxidil. . .Does the brand you’re using have an oily consistency or is it just like water? Does it have just a faint sent of alcohol or does it reek of solvent alcohol? And, is the color slightly amber or is it crystal clear? How are your results? Are you using 5% or 2%?!!. . .:eek:AND, IF YOU'RE USING "5% ROGAINE EXTRA STRENGTH WITHOUT FULL RESULTS, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO DOUBLE YOUR RESULTS?!! My offer stands at 150$ American for anyone who helps me find real 5% Minoxidil lotion

:eek:Two years ago, this coming Christmas, I was stunned to see that Rogaine 5% Extra Strength lotion had changed from an oily, relatively slow flowing, light amber liquid into a watery, clear liquid with the sharp smell of acohol (before it smelled like plasticine, closest I can describe it; smelled only faintly of alcohol compared to the new stuff). This describes the old 2% they first came out with back in the mid 80's and I'm sure that's what it is. This would be especially noticeable/serious to someone who started using Rogaine 2% and then switched to Rogaine 5% Extra Strength and has seen the massive difference in results the increase in minoxidil produces; the switch back would be devastating--especially if you had been on the five percent for some time! So, is there anyone out there that has gone from using 2% to 5%, as per the above senario? And, if so, have you been able to find a real 5% minoxidil lotion replacement? I would also be very interested to hear from anyone who has used Rogaine 5% Extra Strength for the past 3 years--have you noticed any difference in its appearance, smell or application?! 100$ reward for the first person to give me an answer to the problem--NOT KIDDING!!

I think Kirkland and Rogaine are both under Johnson & Johnson ownership, are they not? Not sure, but I saw that on another hair loss forum site. In any case, Rogaine switched it's 5% Rogaine lotion for 2% but retained the 5% packaging two years ago, so who knows what's in the foam. Also, I was pleasantly suprised when I began using a herbal replacement (Prairie Naturals, Prost-Force, Prostate Support Formula) for Propecia, it worked huge, same as Propecia (which I've also used before), works the same way at the Prostate--and no drugs! Generics are probably not exactly the same either and probably differ in terms of quantity of active ingredient, too. As I've just pointed out, above, Rogaine is involved in a full on mislabelling fraud with "Rogaine Extra Strength", and my physician reminded me of a news item--in this context--with findings that vitamins often don't even come close to containing what they claim on their labels--sometimes a number of ingredients listed are not present, at all. I've recently received three different generic brands of 5% Minoxidil solution: Rite Aid, Kinney Drugs (Primier Value), and Walmart (Equate). Real 5% solution should be a slightly amber color; if you hold the bottle up to a lamp, allowing the light to pass through the bottle (the bottles are pretty much all the same), you'll see it--look for the bottom of the bottle. Real 5% smells only slightly of alcohol and somewhat like plasticine (best I can describe it). And real 5% pours and feels oily. (2% is clear, smells strongly of alcohol solvent, and pours just water). Other foreign products often have no quality controls or standards at all. I've examined three, from: the UK (Minoxitop), India (Mytee-10); and Minoxidil Max (not sure where it's from) all, except the later, had added perfume (completely unacceptable in a serious medicine that will be absorbed into the blood stream for a prolonged period), and all were dark in color. The India example was brown, UK's was bright yellow; Minoxidil Max was dark amber-- all signs of impurity and lack of regulation. My American generic products all seem to be relatively clear with varying shades of amber, except for the Walmart Equate--it's clear. So, I'm thinking it's way low on Minoxidil and I'm not at all suprised, in fact, I expected as much from them. Walmart has many pirated brands on its shelves and when I looked at their 2% Minoxidil years ago I threw it out before even trying it. I'm going to examine the others a little more closely and send the Walmart stuff in for testing along with fraudulent Rogaine. Let you all know.

Yeah, wow, that does suck, You've done something to try to help your condition and it's worsened; now you feel as if you've maligned your own cause. Exacerbating. I've been using minoxidil for 22 yrs., on and off, from 2% to 5%, and I've been on for the past 10 yrs. Obviously, I'm a different case and I respond differently so I wouldn't try to make any comparisons other than to say that I've only seen full restorative, excellent results as long as I've stayed with it--there was a gap between my 2% and 5% usages, when I used propecia, but the 5% took over to give me full results after I came back--I just had to cut my hair down to a brush cut to apply it (and wear my hair) because it is so oily compared to the 2%. . . Which brings me to my point. I'm not sure why your hair has begun to fall again and not recovered, but your troubles do fit an important new set of circumstances related to a mislabelling fraud. Rogaine (Johnson & Johnson) stopped producing 5% minoxidil lotion about 2 yrs ago and just put 2% in it's place with the same 5% labelling. (If you want more info on this, send me your email and I'll send a copy of my complaint to the FDA) And I wouldn't be suprised if generics are doing the same thing, especially when they're so much cheaper and in some cases also produced by J&J. So, it might be possible that you have in some way misused minoxidil and are suffering the consequences--these are tricky and frustrating products when the proper protocol is not followed; and, especially when you're not even sure what is in them!! So, the only thing it could be (in my estimation, given that your hair loss had stabilized with propecia and you 've now waited six months) is a protocol failure. That is to say if you miss a dose of minox or lose it in the rain or perspire or do it more than a couple of hours too late (assuming you do it once a day) you'll trigger a shedding phase that, with 2% minox, will last six months, after that it should start to rebound very quickly (been there, done that!). But, with true 5%, the protocol failure shed should only last about 3 months (been there, done that!!). And, you only have to be doing it for a very short time before a protocol failure sets off a disaster like this! So, first, make sure you are using 5%; if it's Rogaine it's only 2% (who knows what's in the foam?!!). 2% smells strongly of solvent, methanol and pours and looks like water. Real 5% smells like plasticine and only very slightly of alcohol, and it has an oily vicosity. Anyway, if you're using Rogaine "5% Extra Strength", expecting it to work like 5% minoxidil lotion there's going to be a problem and your six month agony just might make sense. Best wishes, Mark

Hey Fritzerik, There is one major thing you are overlooking (or, as I should say, unaware of) that should help improve your situation dramatically. . . I've been using Rogaine since 1993--when it was available only as 2% minoxidil in strength. Since then (around the time propecia came on the market) it was upgraded to 5% but, recently, two years ago this December, Rogaine (Johnson & Johnson) decided to discontinue the 5% lotion without informing their users, they simply put 2% under 5% labelling (it used to be viscous with a plasticine like smell; now, it is watery with a strong smell of alcohol--solvent). To circumvent the problem I bought all the remaining Rogaine 5% preceeding the production dates of the fraudulent material (listed on the product) from ebay. I am about to run out and currently looking for a replacement. So, in the interim, I have secured a prescription for lonitem from my doctor. . . .My advice to you would be to MAKE SURE you're not using Rogaine, and I am suspicious of some other brands, as well--particularly those under the control of J&J, such as Kirkland 5% (you'll notice that it is unbelievably cheap). If you find 5% (asuming you're using Rogaine) you can also let it evaporate down for a day or so--in humidity less than 20% (important)--to double it's strength, again; 5% should double the results of 20%, 10% doubles 5%. And let me know if you find true 5%; I live in Canada so it's difficult to do trials of different products. Best wishes, Mark

I'm switching from Rogaine Extra Strength to oral minoxidil because Rogaine no longer makes 5% Extra strenth solution--it's only 2% Regular Strength Rogaine in 5% packaging (it's a mislabelling fraud). So, does anyone know what dosage of oral minoxidil to use in order to equate with 5% minoxidil topical? Thanks, Mark

Harry, I've just seen your response and I'm going to send you a reply in a couple of days. I'm working on something right now that's priority. . . I'm pretty sure I've got some valuable info for you though (for instance, I just don't see anyway that using minoxidil at any strenght 2-3 times a wk could be helpful, and the foam you're using, made by Rogaine, may not be 5% strength--the solution they make is 2% in 5% packaging; so god only knows what's in the foam?! Anyway, more on that later, I'm in the process of making a formal complaint with the FDA--this is no joke, they made the switch two years ago, so be harned, please!! I'm assuming you haven't got all your hair back, and so, I think I may be able to help you accomplish this (I know how this must sound). I myself have accomplished this after 17 years of hair loss!! Just let me know, first: How long have you been losing your hair? How old are you? And, why aren't you using finasteride? Best wishes, Mark