newbie33

In the event of a nuclear holocaust, I feel confident that cockroaches and this thread will be the only things to continue.

we wont be able to judge the video's 1 or 2 for at least 6 month even 12months. if a video is taken down, re-edited, shuffled about, blurred out, and the result is 97% success rate, which it could be, then Dr Bhatti has not only shut the door on the 3 detrimental forces but shown speed, high level of skill is needed in FUE. .

Seth - in a nutshell, this is the basic test, no? But when you say 97% success, do you mean 97% yield? And if so, Dr Bhatti, how do you measure yield? I asked the same question to Dr Feller who answered a while back.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it mostly seems doctors bandy about yield figures based on an educated guess following observation.

Chaps, do you think any of you are too emotionally invested in one procedure or another to be objective any more? Is this why it's all boiled down to rather silly character attacks?

I said it way back when in this thread, and it's not changed - this entire debate has made me less likely to have a HT of any sort. And maybe that is a good thing.

The first rule of Hair Club appears to be 'We rarely talk about hair'.

So how about this question: are there any studies which evidence the yield from either strip or FUE? Proper studies where grafts are counted on numerous patients over a period of time, demonstrating how many grew, as opposed to "Looks like about 95% of them grew to me, guv" (which admittedly with the right eyes of an experienced surgeon may not be far off the mark, but it's not entirely objective).

 

Feller words of wisdom on FUE 2010

This seems entirely consistent with what he's saying on this thread.

Little to no facts have been presented, everything thus far has been opinion scientifically...

The lack of evidence is also a fact. And that's probably what's kept some of us away from the surgeon's chair thus far.

Everyone is on this thread because it's like a circus show right? I never seen doctors argue it's funny,lot of big words had to get a dictionary. It's unfortunate I don't really remember anything else about this thread,entertaining though.

This thread is a bit of a circus. And there is much mud-slinging, ego-clashing and questioning of motives. But what keeps most reasonable people reading it (aside from entertainment, of which there is much more and better on the Internet), is that facts remain facts. There is enough argument and debate about the objective facts that it's useful for anyone considering a HT, especially if they're keeping an open-mind on what it is they can realistically anticipate as a long term outcome.

Thanks FUE2014. You're right, no clinic bats 100%. And Dr Feriduni appears to be one of the best FUE practitioners. But the thing is, none of us know what each clinic bats. We see, at best usually, a small proportion of results through internet pictures.

Thanks Ezel. I think Dr Feller is pretty unusual in going further than most doctors go about publicly discussing other surgeon's techniques and their marketing techniques. I rather admire him for it.

And indeed, Darlinglocks. But vagueness rules the day in a lot of these discussions.

You are free to not like what I have to say, but I speak from experience and authority that you do not possess. Like it or not, that's the case. I'm not the evil villain spinning my mustache in my cape and top hat. I am trying to help you and everyone by giving you information you can't possibly have and so many doctors refuse to offer. .

I have actually found some hidden camera footage of Dr Feller. GOTCHA FELLER!

Ezel asked a question about extraction and placement. Am I right to think that technicians extract grafts for Dr Feriduni?

In general, this is one of my bugbears - asking physicians how much of the procedure they do themselves. Often I've got a fairly vague answer. And it's lovely if they 'sometimes' do all or a 'majority' of the extractions and placement themselves. But every patient wants to know what the doctor will be doing in THEIR procedure.

Torn, the very points you make are the things that have prevented me from getting a HT. There is just too much marketing/opinion and too little proper science behind all of this.

Yes, there are many individual factors unique to each patient that make up a whole HT result. But some of those factors can be objectively measured. Yield is one. It is possible to count how many grafts you attempt to take out using FUE. It's possible to count how many you transect or partially transect. It's possible to count how many you place. It's possible (especially if placed in totally bald areas) to count how many grow.

I know this does not make the end result. But it would at least give people some comfort that on the average X percent of grafts grow using Y technique with Dr Z (Not a forum recommended doctor).

As far as I can make out, the answers you'll get about this from each doctor are largely their judgement of how many grafts grow. And while that counts for something, it's a subjective measure of something which could be counted objectively. I'd love to be corrected about this, so please jump in if I'm wrong...

Sorry to hear that HTsoon. But I guess you know the score and that was always likely to happen.

Have you/will you tell people at work you've had a HT? I've not had a transplant, and very curious about this answer, but from previous posters it seems Couvre and/or Toppik can work OK. Basically any type of product you rub on your head that's hair colour seems best while there's not enough hair for hair fibres to cling to. Wouldn't want to try that very soon after a HT, but I guess a month out would be OK.

I've always had a 'high forehead' but my hair was always mega thick. Even when I started to recede a bit at the front in my twenties, I thought at least I won't have a bald spot at the back... Unlit I hit my late twenties/thirties and the crown started to thin too.

Even some guys I knew when I was young whose low foreheads and thick hair I'd envy are now are bald as a coot. You just can't predict by looking alone at a twenty year old head how it's going to pan out.

Thank you Dr Feller.

Asked about the method as I just wondered if it was standard practice for doctors to note placement/number of grafts in a procedure and then later count said grafts (fairly laborious and difficult) or to do so in one square centimetre and take that as an average (which would assume even results throughout) or just examine and take an educated guess.

And thank you Des. That's another of my worries - a lifetime of chasing my tail.

Destorious - ah, right. Thanks for the reply. I shall keep the nagging doubt a little longer until I see more real-life results!

Dr Feller - silly question, but I don't want to assume anything: so, literally, how do you measure the yield to know it was 75% in Destorious's case? And is it something you routinely do in follow-up consultations with each patient?

Destorious

You know, that's a fear in the back of my mind that has so far stopped me from getting a HT - that neither strip or FUE give GREAT results. In pictures I know there are some great results, but in the handful of real-life results I've seen, I've always been a bit underwhelmed. Constant, nagging fear, that is.

Must be FUE then?

Vox is right. If FUE was one in every 99, then FUT would be a total of 98.9% of all procedures. (Or 99% if we're rounding up correctly).

Twenty years after the event, some of my qualifications have found an application.

Reminds me of one of my favourite childish pun jokes - which really works best aloud.

Men are hairy. But women are more hairy on the whole.

This thread would so be over if someone just called up every HT surgeon in the world tomorrow afternoon.

I've got a pretty good phone tariff, Voxman. So if you could just get me their numbers...

Dr Bhatti, apologies if I've already missed this answer. But, on average, what yield do you think a) your FUE results achieve b) the 'best' FUE surgeons achieve, and, if you wish, c) the best strip surgeons achieve?

A couple of years ago I had a consultation with Dr Feriduni. I was too stupid to have a set of written questions and note the answers, but I seem to recall he said something along the lines that his FUE yield results were similar to strip - though he seemed also to infer it might be slightly lower with FUE.

Cristian (FUE2014) - out of curiosity, have you had a HT? If so, is it documented anywhere?

Dr Feller, maybe 'a-hole' was harsh. Let's just agree you sometimes write in a robust style (though seem quite mild-mannered in the videos). I'm glad of it - robust debate about he facts helps us all learn more and get nearer the truth, even if everyone can feel a little bruised for it.

There is just so much marketing spin / non-disclosure / outright untruth in this HT world. Couple that with little serious, scientific trial data - and access to what there is for the laymen. It's incredibly difficult to see the wood for the trees. I'm thankful forums like this exist, and doctors like you participate.

Adonix,

Lorenzo gets good results and they seem consistent (he's actually on my very short-list of docs I am considering for a HT). As I said, his extraction technique and yield appear to be up there with the best I've seen doing FUE. But his technique is basically the same as Feller's and the same for all FUE at its basest form - make a hole around the follicle (torsion), hold/grab it (compression), rip it out (traction). Maybe his technique diminishes these forces. Maybe it diminishes them enough of the time to get good results. But it doesn't entirely negate them.

Not to make Feller's point for him. But he's basically saying if you want most grafts out and in a way that's going to give them the best chance to grow, go for strip.

For me, who really would prefer not to have strip, the question is: can I find a doctor who can get enough grafts from me (over a lifetime if necessary) and implant them in a way that matches my expectations from a HT i.e. hopefully, one pass at restoring the hairline and filling in elsewhere and hope that, with meds, is enough to see me through till I'm living in a nursing home on the coast and worrying more about sitting in my own p1ss than how my hair looks.

So I'm definitely more inclined to get FUE. But I want to go into it with my eyes open. And, yes, I know Dr Feller can sometimes, as Americans say, come over as an a-hole (sorry, old chap), but I am grateful he spends time trying to educate us. Not a single doctor I've spoken to about FUE has mentioned fibrosis, or a lot of other things that thanks to this forum I'm informed enough to ask about.

So this is worth a watch:

It's Dr Lorenzo's extraction and implantation technique from a few years ago. From my perspective, he seems about as good as it gets in terms of technique. But I think anyone would be hard pressed to say it negates the three forces Dr Feller talks about.

And I add above the caveat 'from a few years ago' because it seems he doesn't do all the extractions himself now, so this won't necessarily be what you get from whoever does - though I'd assume he has provided good training for whoever does it.

Thanks. Maras is FUE only, right?

Unless you were studying it, I doubt you'd notice the slightly irregular symmetry. Similarly on the slight pluginess - but if anything that's what I noticed first after you said you were looking for a second go.

I can see what you mean, but is it really worth it now? Depends how much it's bothering you, I guess. Out of interest, who performed your first procedure?

Never seen any MI movie (and surely by now they've worked out it's likely to be possible?), but being a Brit I've seen McBurney in various things over the years (especially recommend a lovely, tender sit-com called 'Rev'). He had a lovely head of hair and seems to have been thinning diffusely for about 10-15 years, though the hairline seems fairly intact for about a centimeter. Here' some pics: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=simon+mcburney&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMI4NG7s62KxwIVZgbbCh0UegHx