chrisis

Hey JRCore17, I'm really pleased you had a good experience and it was nice to hear from you recently. I will look forward to reading about your progress. Chris

You could try some physical hair straighteners? Just use a heat protectant product to help prevent damage.

Thanks Garageland and good advice. Pretty much the route I went down

Hi Jimmy It's definitely worth considering surgeons based abroad. I am from Newcastle and had mine done in Belgium. It's just a matter of looking at patient results and reviews to determine the best surgeon for you and your budget. Whilst money is a concern and restriction for many, remember surgery is a permanent procedure and it comes with the possibility of destroying limited donor hair. In my view the surgeon's skill and how the clinic operates as a team is the number #1 consideration. If you have any questions, just give me a shout. Chris

Hi mjohnson30 Saw palmetto is a 5-alpha reductase Inhibitor, just like finasteride. If you got side effects from saw palmetto, I suspect you're at risk for side effects from finasteride too. I talk to quite a few guys who've experienced PFS side effects from saw palmetto, and in fact I'm working with a group of them to help expand the definition of PFS and spread awareness. My suspicion is people are opting for it as an alternative to finasteride, mistakenly assuming because it's natural, it's therefore safe. Here's an interesting article on the topic: Saw Palmetto and Testosterone: Potent DHT Blocker

This is exactly why I had FUE. Today I had a guard #1 hair cut on the back and side and there's no scar to see. I did not see the sense in swapping my paranoia about hair at the front for paranoia about the back of my head. Even if transection rates were inferior to strip (which has been theorised but not proven), then I'd still accept a10-20% transection rate to not have a strip scar. I don't think I'd go as far as 50%, but I don't think a reputable FUE surgeon would be transecting every other graft and still producing good results.

Totally agree with you Matt. I think we've had a very similar experience.

I must clarify the distinction between propeciahelp.com and the PFS Foundation. They're separate, the former is a forum.

I fundamentally disagree, but I've been there years and you've had a look, so there's a difference in our perspective and experience. We'll let the studies do the talking. Apologies if I seemed passive aggressive, but this is an emotive and important topic.

Gambling with your health for the sake of your hair, when three studies will be released in the next year? My experience suggests that's the very definition of rolling the dice, especially since you've already exhibited signs that you're susceptible. By the way, mixing up drugs and doses is also a risky business. I spoke to one guy who crashed because he went away on business and forgot to take his Propecia. He'd been taking it for over ten years prior to this without any problem. No need for "" around the word imminent by the way, unless you know something that I don't about the PFS Foundation? They're a genuine organisation investing millions into understanding this drug, donated by sufferers and their families - especially of those who've died. You should spend some time on their site and learn about them. We're going around in circles here so once again, I wish you well.

Hi irishsailor, Check the chart I posted earlier: This shows that even 0.2mg only inhibits very slightly less DHT than 1mg. Since most men are taking 1mg or 1.25mg and above, it seems the difference would be infinitesimally small. I thought I'd give everyone a glimpse of what it's like in my world right now. I received this message on Skype just today: Hello, I found your skype on the propeciahelp site. I also started suffering from PFS crash, It would be good If i could talk to someone about it. Thank you, I just want some chat about my recovery regimen, Im in the beginning of my crash:( btw I am from Hungary. I've also received a few messages privately on this site about this topic. I'd say I receive roughly about the same number of enquiries about PFS as I do about hair surgery. It's reassuring to see the tide slowly changing on this topic, and I appreciate the support shown here and that people are sharing their stories openly.

A Dutch guy contacted me who had this exact experience. He switched from the brand to generic and developed side effects. Bear in mind, he'd taken Propecia for many years without issue, so didn't anticipate that changing to generic finasteride would do anything other than save him some money. He contacted me to ask for advice and I helped him wean off the drug over a long period. Fortunately he had no lasting sides - a lucky escape. I suspect the reason he developed sides is because he switched from 1mg Propecia to 1.25mg Proscar. If we consider that our hormones work in harmony, even a 0.25mg change in finasteride dosage can cause severe disruption to our bodies.

Hi Spanker I've discussed this with my doctor both prior to my surgery and prior to working with him. First, I was pleased that he didn't demand that I take the drug before having surgery, unlike other doctors. Second, he is aware of PFS and sympathetic. I've discussed PFS with other doctors who have entirely rejected it, so once again, I was satisfied with his response. I don't expect him to stop prescribing Propecia - this is an industry-wide issue, but I have recommended that patients are fully aware of the risks. I will continue to further this awareness where I can, e.g. here in this topic. It's my understanding that the studies will be released imminently, i.e. within 6 months to a year. Most people can afford to wait, rather than hastily take a drug that may have life-changing consequences. I don't think that's "evangelical" in the slightest. It's good, sensible advice. If you feel you can't wait, then go ahead and roll the dice. It's up to you.

Hi Blake, Which I first consulted for my surgery back in 2012, I was told by Dr. Feller that I wasn't an FUE candidate. After much deliberation, I eventually opted for FUE surgery with Dr. Feriduni and I'm really happy I made that decision. One of the reasons I was so keen on FUE is because I like to keep the back and sides of my hair very short, as the "undercut" hairstyle is the most popular current hairstyle for men, e.g. (this is pretty close to how I have my hair) My question is, how close could you shave without these mFUE incisions being visible? In my case I can shave down to guard #1 and nobody can see any of the FUE scarring, not even my hairdresser who knows I've been for surgery. We always use a guard #1 in the donor region and it looks great. My FUE was performed with a 0.85mm manual punch, so I'm curious, how would an mFUE extraction compare with these dimensions? As I'm sure you're aware, FUE doctors strive for a balance between minimising transection rates and visible scarring, so hole punch size is a very important consideration. This would apply to mFUE too, so if you can provide typical dimensions of an mFUE extraction, it would give us an idea about how the scarring would look, and whether a grade #1 undercut hairstyle would be possible with this technique.

Exactly. And aside from neurological issues caused directly by finasteride, who's to say that sexual dysfunction alone isn't enough to compel someone to commit suicide? Isn't finasteride still responsible? Now consider that this sexual dysfunction is compounded by subsequent marital and family problems. Couldn't depression result from this, albeit indirectly? Sexuality and relationships are so centrally important to us, so I'd say yes.

Your words were: I gathered from this that you were rejecting the link, and used the word "casually" because you didn't attempt a counter argument. I apologise if that's an incorrect interpretation (as you say), but I simply read what you wrote and responded accordingly. Your latest post in this topic clarifies that you don't entirely reject that there may be a link, just that you expect it to be proven beyond "doubt". The problem with that is we all have a different standard, as it's totally subjective. My own experience with the drug and my research since speaks to me more than enough to be convinced that there is a link, and I'm certain that studies will eventually confirm it. Who knows, maybe even the studies will still not be enough for you? There are, after all, people who think vaccines cause autism. That said, personal experiences inform our opinions greatly, and I realise that others haven't had the same negative experience with finasteride as me, nor three years of (almost) daily research into the causes of PFS and potential means to recover. I'm simply trying to warn you. If warning you (especially as you seem to be pre-disposed to side effects), makes me "evangelical", that's fine - if a little unfair, but are you being entirely honest? You wrote: But in contradiction to this you wrote earlier: I'm not sure if your participation in this debate is to argue semantics with me or to rationalise taking finasteride to yourself. I've discharged my duty in warning you, so I'll just wish you well whatever you decide to do.

Hi Bill As someone who has struggled with this issue over the last few years, I really appreciate those words! It certainly makes sense that we all support the studies, regardless of our position, because then everyone can rest assured about the exact mechanisms of the drug and whether it is truly safe or not. Perhaps men will need to be tested before taking finasteride to make sure they won't react adversely, who knows. I wonder if the community here could support the Foundation in any official capacity? I can put you in touch with someone who is co-ordinating studies if you'd like to discuss it further? I think it would mean a great deal to those suffering with PFS to have the backing of a major hair transplant network and it would also stand this community in good stead for any adverse PR that results from Propecia studies and/or litigation.

"Doubt" is why the studies are ongoing, but as a keen observer of this controversy over the last 3 years, that "doubt" is beginning to fade away. In your case I find it strange that you casually reject the link, considering you personally took Adovart and witnessed strong side effects yourself. I suppose it just goes to show, if someone is keen enough to try finasteride, no matter the apparent warning flags, they will reason themselves into it somehow. That's your choice, but an interesting phenomenon. I'd encourage you to at least listen to this interview of Kelly Pfaff, a widow of a PFS victim, who talks about how this drug killed her husband. She is just one of six families we know about who have come forward to testify that there is a link between finasteride and their untimely deaths. Also check out the obituary of Dr. Daniel Stewart Note the end: With all due respect, it doesn't appear they had any "doubt".

Ah yes. He was one of the first to speak publicly about the dangers involved. and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7K_Qwy22UU

Hi Dr. Blake It's really great to read that you are interested about research into PFS and refreshing to experience this level of understanding and concern! Who is the endocrinologist you're thinking of? The study at Baylor is being led by Dr. Khera. I know a few people personally who participated in the studies and almost went myself, but they are focusing on participants closer to the University. There are also specific eligibility criteria to ensure the study is scientifically sound, for instance, anyone who has taken an SSRI does not meet the criteria. It took quite a long time just to get enough participants for the study, but as far as I know they have now filled it and are now working on testing the volunteers and the analysis.

Hi nimrod Although I am in touch with people who work for the PFS Foundation, they keep their cards very close to their chest for legal reasons. They have already released some studies, e.g. this meta analysis, which concluded that: Available toxicity information from clinical trials of finasteride in men with AGA is very limited, is of poor quality, and seems to be systematically biased. As well as supporting research which you can read about in their 2015 Annual Address, which was just released this week. I think the bigger and most important studies from Baylor, Brigham and Milan will be published within the next 6 months to a year. It seems to me that awareness of PFS is already growing, and these studies will further this, in conjunction with legal proceedings against Merck which have already begun.

I just don't understand why you think things will be any different with finasteride. It is the same type of medication and you're clearly sensitive to anti-androgens. A nightmare scenario can be a lot worse than losing your hair. Of course it is your risk to take, but why roll the dice when the odds are not in your favour? These names illustrate a true nightmare scenario: Randall J. Santmann, 22 (1986-2008) Patrick J. Ortiz, 24 (1987-2012) John D. Pfaff, 40 (1972-2013) Dr. Daniel M. Stewart, 37 (1976-2014) Stephen E. Kenney, 41(1972-2014) Podcast featuring John Pfaff's widow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr7fBHuS86I

Careful as you go. If you're sensitive to Avodart, then your body is telling you that you're sensitive to anti androgens. Why would you swallow another, even if inhibits 10 or 20% less DHT? It sounds extremely risky to me.

Hi chrisdav, I work for Dr. Feriduni. Hey nimrod, The PFS Foundation are working on several studies which will hopefully explain what is going on and then we will all be in a better position. If I were you I'd be inclined to wait until then. I don't think it will be too long. If you need anyone to chat to about your concerns, drop me a line. No need to feel alone

Indeed, I have read cases of PFS that have occurred from RU58841, e.g. From August 2011 to January 2012 I was taking topical RU58841 (not sure how many people are familiar with it, but it's a strong Anti Androgen that doesn't inhibit Alpha 5 Reductase). That is where things got worse. I noticed my testicles had shrunk about 25%-35% in volume, grew breast tissue, flaccid penile shrinkage, low libido, feeling cold, not interested in doing anything, anxiety/depressed. Is it too late for me? : Member Stories I have also talked to many guys experiencing side effects like heart palpitations, headache and brainfog from something as apparently benign as minoxidil - also topical. As minoxidil is not an anti-androgen, I suspect these side effects are due to its mechanism as a vasodilator. I think in time PFS will be widened to encompass any anti-androgen, whether it's finasteride, saw palmetto, or topical agents like RU58441. It's all the same.