Mickey85

I believe it is very wrong for Dr. Feller to call Mickey an online stalker and bully. Mickey is far from this , and any regular reader of this forum is well aware of this .

Mickey has made a massive positive contribution to the hair restoration discussion forum in many ways, and long may that continue.

 

It is a very silly and unprofessional response to make publicly and furthermore asking for names and address of any member on the forum is a sad thing to see from any professional Dr.

 

 

..................Paddy.

Thanks Paddy for the very kind words and support. Very very much appreciated.

Mickey,

 

 

Mickey is simply an online bully and stalker. Also known in the parlance of the internet as a "Hater". He doesn't hate everybody, just those who disagree with him.

I don't hate you Doctor, or anyone that has an opposing view with me on here. Many members have differing views than I but it does perplex me as to why questions posed by myself and others have mostly gone unanswered. No one is doubting your achievements in the field, but you like to bring up facts but do not substantiate them. Maybe some of the evidence would go over most of our heads, but even an attempt would be appreciated. It does seem like you are bashing FUE excessively. Maybe it is coming off that way to myself and a few others.

Mickey,

Why such hate? So brave hiding behind a keyboard. So loud, too.

 

Tell you what, since your only reference to reality is invoking the name of my friends and colleagues without their knowledge or permission, let's call any one or ALL of them together and see what they say about your claims about me and FUE in general. I'll record it with their permission and post it online for the world to hear.

 

Just PM me your real verifiable name and address.

 

Mickey is simply an online bully and stalker. Also known in the parlance of the internet as a "Hater". He doesn't hate everybody, just those who disagree with him.

 

Sorry Mickey, but doctors are allowed to use this website and share their opinion unmolested by the likes of self appointed know nothing "experts" like yourself.

 

If you fancy yourself a consumer affairs expert and want to hold yourself out to the public as such, then stand accountable for your words and offer your real name and address.

.

How anyone would want to go to you for a procedure when you exhibit such etiquette is beyond me. Please continue with your 'unmolested' opinion that FUE is so inherently flawed even though many other surgeons have surpassed you. You think the majority of people here cannot see your bias?

You are more than free to express your own opinion on here. The part many people have trouble with is that you constantly make it out like good FUE results are a rarity when there are an abundance of good FUE results from many clinics across the world. When this is mentioned, you either ignore it or dismiss it.

I ask in sincerity, why is it that many other composite FUE/strip surgeons have no/little trouble with FUE? I'm not taking a jab here, maybe there is something I don't get.

We all see that Feller definitely picks a side here and is biased. The absolute truth in this one is impossible to find out so nobody should take Feller as an authority.

 

However where does Feller base his opinion on? Surely much of what he thinks is related to his observational evidence when he has performed a FUE. He then compares that to his FUT results.

 

Who says that Feller is even that good at FUE though? Feller is definitely not considered to be a top dog as a FUE practitioner, far from it actually.

 

He isn't on the same level as guys like Feriduni, Bisanga, Lorenzo etc.

 

Why should we go with the opinion of someone who isn't considered to be considered at the top of FUE anyway?

 

I would assume that a technician of the camp of Lorenzo or Erdogan would be better at extractions than Feller. Simply because these guys are putting in more practice.

 

Speaking of that Feller where are your FUE results? Can you link us to several FUE cases you have done? Independent ones preferably?

 

They seem to be heavily lacking?

Totally read my mind.

I wonder why actual surgeons that post good FUE results constantly, don't waste their time complaining about the apparent intrinsic flaws in FUE whilst a surgeon who has not posted an FUE result in years makes it seem like an abortion of the hair transplant industry.... Hmmmm.

Joe how did the strip scar turn out?

Hi

having researched hair transplants for the last 4 years and literally looking at thousands of results and the different techniques offered I am shocked that Dr feller is making such blanket statements which actually seem to do nothing but show him in an very unfavourable and also unprofessional light due to his seemingly arrogant and patronising manner!!

Firstly with respect regarding fue results I can categorically state that both Dr Lorenzo and Dr endogan regularly and CONSISTENTLY produce far superior fue results to almost anything I have seen from Dr fellers strip surgeries both in tens of naturalness and yield!!! In fact in the last 4 years iv seen very little strip results of any good/excellent growth from Dr feller and zero via fue!! When Lorenzo was in Manchester we had regular cases shown with amazing results and Dr erdogan posts almost weekly great fue results one after another almost all show donor shaved down without a guard as several are 2 stage procedures, hd videos, comb through results and honest presentations although Dr endogan has come under fire for wet per op against dry post ops which he is now addressing!!

With all due respect Dr feller is very rarely mentioned these days regarding who's who of surgeons by experiences educated posters or newbies looking for advice on surgeons!!

Chrisdav and Irish sailor both got great results from dr feller via strip and Qdos for that, however correct me if I'm wrong but the only other poster I can think of is a guy called taloconwest or something similar who seemed to be having a pretty bad result upto the 8 month mark then just stopped posting! I believe he was a Dr feller patient who had strip, I may be wrong and apologise if I am!!

But it's really annoying to see someone who can influence people's decision spouting what I consider total rubbish with regards to fue results in general! Yes due can and isa give poor results but so does strip, fact!! Poor yield from both, yes absolutely, excellent yield from both, yes absolutely, both a gamble again yes, both leave scars, yes!! But without question s strip scar is by far worse then the shotgun blast look Dr feller obscurely describes, iv had fue by Dr feridiuni who I regard on a par with the best of the best in fue and I can and do shave down to a grade 1 regularly, has anyone ever noticed or commented on my donor,? No!! Could a experienced Dr or ht patient tell? Maybe, but do I care if some expert could microscopically detect IT, no absolutely not! Do I care if I'm everyday life your average person would detect it and ask about the strip scar on the back of my shaven head then yes, I abbsolutley would!! I am 100% happy I chose fue and I think most strip patients if honestly answered if they could turn back time knowing how good fue results have become they wish they had gone fue then most, not all would!!

Also it's very big of you to not be anonymous given that your a Dr in this industry dr feller as you have no option, it's your job it's what you do, you can't be anonymous so I think it's laughable how you keep trying to get anyone who critises you to man up and reveal their identity?? What difference does that make?? I think you have come across unprofessional, rude and to be honest you seem to think your option is gospel and hold yourself in much higher regard them most people ever would of you on this forum!! It's a shame but I can assure you your attitude and rants will have caused the opposite of what I think you are trying to achieve because they say and publicity is good publicity but I think you have proved this wrong as business I'm sure won't get better due to this and your other recent thrreads!!

Last thing are you saying them that Dr feriduni, Lorenzo and erdogans results are fur are sub par to your strip ones?? As anyone can clearly see that they are not!!

150% agree. You have summed up how I feel about this whole thing.

Mick,

 

That is NY law specifically. There are MULTIPLE states where techs can do everything. I've told scar multiple times that any doctor would easily open a technician FUE clinic in one of these states, but it isn't done. What's more, most doctors aren't aware of the state laws or don't seem to care. Think about how certain FUE machine companies will send their "trained technicians" do to procedures wherever you put the machine -- after it's purchased. I've never seen anything about "state specific" on their websites.

Wow, never knew about that loophole. I wonder if Atlanta allows techs to do everything..

There's accountable and there's "accountable".

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/170915-new-videos-dr-feller-4.html

 

To quote from the link:

 

"Dr Feller, it seems curious that here you recommend a wait of at least 8 months between operations, but here: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...-feller-2.html you claimed :

 

"I told him what he wanted was fine in terms of hairline height, but that he would not be sufficiently thick due to thin caliber hair and overall available grafts. He said he completely understood this but would "rather have a thin lower hairline than a thick higher one", and that he would come back in 6 months to fill it in to achieve the density I recommended.

 

He also wanted to do his temples as well, but I advised him there wouldn't be enough grafts for such an ambitious plan on the second procedure. So we agreed to do the aggressive surgery now and then for him return in 6 months for a fill in and temple work. This is a perfectly reasonable plan, but unfortunately LondonHT never returned. "

 

Hmm."

 

Never did get an answer to THAT one! :rolleyes:

Wow....

+1 about the technician in the US argument. I've been saying this for months, but it was mainly ignored. The argument that FUE isn't as popular or pricing structures are different in the US opposed to Europe/Turkey because of technician involvement is a farce. Maybe Dr Feller's statement will finally refute this point.

Dr. Bloxham, so in the US the techs are allowed to extract the graft(with forceps) but a surgeon is the only one that can punch/score the graft with a punch. This differs compared to Europe though where techs are allowed to basically do it all so the two are not identical. I do agree that it still does not dictate pricing structures or popularity.

I have spent time reading about the differences between performing FUE by hand and with the Artas Robot and I am convinced going the Artas route is the best way. I just don't see how a manual hand can extract the hair follicles as precisely as a robot. I was told that the robot makes larger incisions, but I have read the robot has now improved and the incisions it makes are smaller. Furthermore, the robot cannot get tired and make mistakes like a human hand. I could understand if people were worried about the robot placing the grafts on the hair and designing the hairline, but it does not do that. The human hand still does it. So for what the robot does, just extract grafts and create the new recipient sites, I don't see why the human hand would be able to do a better job. Thoughts or am I missing something? Thank you.

Please look up results performed by the actual robot(ARTAS) before making a decision. Theoritically everything you say is true. A robot can not tire, a robot is precise etc. But some very important factors are left out. But I have only seen maybe 15 results all up from it and most were very unimpressive sadly...

I don't have a dog in this fight and am always happy to see a great discussion about this issue (my brother and father both received strip FUT), but wow was Dr. Feller's post arrogant.

 

Talking about the issue of strip FUT vs FUE is one thing, but then taking the opportunity to insult nearly everybody else who isn't a doctor in his field, who may have various educated and intelligent opinions, is another. I am a professional with as many years of training as Dr. Feller (maybe more) and have an advanced doctorate, but I would never talk down to others like that in my field of practice who may not have my training and education. Who knows, maybe my Mom taught me better.

 

Anyway, good discussion (despite the rough start) but contrary to his opinions, I am a VERY happy FUE patient who received an absolutely outstanding FUE from Dr. Jim Harris in Colorado (who incidentally did bring new FUE extraction technologies to the field notwithstanding Dr. Feller's claim).

 

While I've had an outstanding start, I still have lots of growing to go but will gladly post pics when I am done growing out to show the immense success of FUE in the hands of a skilled doctor. I never even considered strip FUT - yield (which may be slightly better for strip FUT, but not by much) is not the only consideration for patients - scarring, more tension in your scalp, inability for very short hair, chances for complications, etc. are some of the many reasons people choose FUE over strip FUT today.

Totally agree with you on all points.

Thanks Mickey 85 very clear response

My pleasure HairJo. I have read your posts in the last few days and you seem very receptive and open minded. These are very positive traits to have whilst researching hair transplants and also in life. There have been many 'innovations' in the hair transplant world that have bee glorified by even elite surgeons, but sometimes when the dust settles, it is extremely clear that the claims were not completely truthful.

One thing that alot of patients who have failed hair transplants(FUE or strip, both can fail) is "I wish I researched more/waited a bit longer". It seems you have not yet had a hair transplant, use this time to inform yourself to the best of your ability because if it goes wrong, a part of you will be blaming yourself as I once blamed myself.

I used to have a line in my profile signature that I was "Pro-patient", I might try to get back to that... Or I might leave.. We shall see.

A Gold Standard technique shouldn't need a marketing strategy that highlights the weaknesses of the competing products in order to look more attractive on the market.

 

Just look at the most popular phone on the market. It lets the quality do the talking.

 

Perhaps this is why few FUE Doctors have bothered coming online to defend their technique and talent? The quality speaks for itself.

So true my friend. Just let the results do the talking. Many surgeon's take their jobs very seriously and I applaude them for that. I respect Dr Feller's strip work but most of the great surgeons have no interest in getting into an e-war online. Alot are booked out well into 2016 and in their spare time I'm not so sure they would be wanting to sit infront of a computer debating hair transplant methods with other surgeon's across the world. There are conventions for that where they can showcase their talents and methods live and in person. Just my opinion anyway.

Hugs to all

If it takes such a skilled doctor to do FUE then why are the Technicians doing most of it and why are robots doing it ?? Are they the most skilled techs and the robots ???

Well with the 'robot'(I'm assuming you are talking about the ARTAS device), when it was revealed there was a claim that the transection rates were something like 3-5%(from memory may be slightly off). Some surgeons jumped on this device because of the claimed low transection rate and also because they would not have to take the many many hours to perfect FUE extraction by hand. Years later and we have seen some ARTAS results and most of which were sadly disappointing, many surgeons have gone back to either handheld motorized devices or manual punches.

Tech-assisted extractions are common place in Europe where I believe it is legal. Using a manual punch is very tiring on the hands especially if thousands of grafts are needed so punching duties are either delegated or shared between surgeon and techs. Some prefer a surgeon to do all the punching duties and I can certainly understand that but when you see an FUE result from Europe, chances are that techs were assisting in the punching/extraction phase. It is upto you to decide whether you place emphasis on whether the particular clinic puts out great results(regardless of techs assisting) or if you strictly want a surgeon to do all the punching.

Question everything. You can never do enough research. Don't ask one doctor, ask many. Don't just ask me, ask others. There is an abundance of information to be absorbed and what you will learn in 6 months will completely dwarf what you know now.

I don't disagree with you at all. If a potential patient had poor donor laxity, wanted to maintain a buzzed down look on the back and sides and wanted a less invasive procedure, FUE would most likely be the avenue he should seek. On the other hand if a guy had poor donor density, wanted just one big session instead of waiting 12 months for another round of FUE, had good laxity and did not care about buzzing down etc than strip would most likely be the starting point for him.

What I do not like however are surgeons/clinics coming on here and propagating blanket statements universally as if the know every clinics protocol and yield rates. You don't see FUE doctors coming out and saying "40% of strip scars stretch" but we have surgeon's who predominantly practice strip making it out like a good FUE result is a rarity and that it is intrinsically flawed and no one can overcome the obstacles even though there is an abundance of proof showing otherwise.

I'm mainly an FUE guy, but guys like you, Chrisdav, Spanker, Since21, KO etc I don't have any problem with at all because we share a similar(not identical but similar) view on both methods. You guys got great results from strip and I certainly cannot(and would not even contemplate) diminish that. I mainly have a problem with certain industry factions though.

Neither Dr E or Dr L offer Strip. I have consulted with both clinics recently and any objective unbiased person would agree if they did their research unless they had some sort of agenda.

 

Anyone who is suggesting otherwise should really get their facts straight as some of these statements are are coming off as slander given the nature of this thread(s).

 

We haven't seen any FUE physicians respond to this recent barrage of pro FUT threads as it is assumed they don't need to dignify any response nor do they have the time.

Thank you!!! But you know, never let the truth get in the way of anything...

Some doctors push for FUE because it costs more they will make more per graft plus a lot of them use their technicians or robots or whatever the so called latest way to get your money .

That may certainly be true for some surgeons but some doctors also push for strip simply because their FUE skills do not yield as good as their strip results or other surgeon's FUE results.

Indeed, in fact Dr. C*** from Atlanta also argues this and believes that you have more lifetime grafts via FUE. I am not one to dispute their findings. Would be great though if there was evidence for either side.

Agreed. But Dr C. has made many many outlandish claims about FUE and 'donor regeneration" that even I would not agree with. I wouldn't even use him as a source for proof simply because it would easily be discredited by his other claims(Acell mysteriously fabricating and regenerating follicles post FUE... at an extra cost to the patient of course..yeh...)...

Interesting to note from Dr L's website:

 

"One of the most vital aspects of this technique (FUE) is the quality of the units which are removed. We have found from our studies in previous years that the quality and strength of the grafts removed are better than those extracted by the strip method. The follicular units are much cleaner when removed one by one then by separating them under the microscope. This also helps to reduce wounding to the recipient area. Our surgeons have presented these studies in various seminars on hair transplants"

That still won't stop surgeons from arbitrarily trying to dictate universal laws and 'facts' across all clinics

Guys,

 

I saw several posts giving Dr. Feller a hard time about him saying that FUE leaves a lot of scarring. Check out this young man who came in complaining of little FUE result, donor depletion with a longer hair style, and these scars when his hair is short...

 

Now he is in a bind, kind of damned if you do any more to fix the front and deplete the back more, and damned if you don't...

 

Regardless of folks' thoughts on FUE, and contrary to the ads I see from my local competitors and on the airplanes...FUE is not scarless. This ought to be discussed, up front, as part of the pros and cons before patients get in the operating chair. Now he might have had a strip scar that would require a longer hair length than this, but he would not have depletion of his donor area to any extent and he'd likely have gotten a better result (with that skinny fine hair he has) than with FUE. MFUE would have probably been able to give him better grafts with this type of hair...and if the case was designed and executed properly of course...but he'd still have a number of linear scars...way fewer than these FUE scars but I doubt if he could have a really short haircut like he has here..but at least with a fairly short haircut he would not show donor depletion like this.

 

I'm not saying this is the perfect option for everyone, but this young man was "taken" by unscrupulous ads.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

I don't disagree with some clinics wrongly marketting FUE as a scarless technique or that FUE leaves small scars and missing follicles. But I think the amount of strip patients who would gladly trade donors with this guy would be insanely high. If I shaved down to the grade this patient did, you would see my strip scar from 50meters away.

Thank you Dr Feller.

 

I bet all these naysayers don't even realise that Lorenzo, Erdogan...even Dr C in Atlanta are still performing FUT.

Errr are you 100% sure on this? Lorenzo and Erdogan are performing strip? I highly highly doubt and and will verify and will come back if this turns out to be misinformation.

The result from the FUE procedure picture that you posted above seems to depict:

 

1) shock loss in the donor.

2) over harvesting.

 

I have never seen a top surgeon like Dr. Lorenzo or Bisanga overharvest or leave such scars from an FUE procedure.

 

Is this the FUE scarring that one can expect from your clinic?

Agreed. Add poor extraction patterns and a larger then optimal punch diameter's to the list of possibly factors too. But you know, vital variables are unimportant

Now for the sake of being impartial. Let us see some unfavorable strip scarring. I for one would prefer the scarring the patient Dr Lindsey posted received than my strip scar by a 'top doc' where I can't even shave down to a grade 5 without a noticeable void with there exists no hair.

FUE is definitely not scarless. There will be scarring/missing follicles and no one should expect to be able to shave down to a zero guard or even a grade 1 depending on multiple factors(grafts extracted, hair to scalp color contrast etc). But it is the general consensus that FUE does allow the patient to shave down closer without detection of surgical intervention compared to strip(in general of course).